Two personalities? Guy/girl?...

[Lily_gg]

Hi all.

I have a question that I've been pondering over the last few days, which I'm sure a lot of other SOs have difficulties with too, so I thought I'd pose it here:

Basically, a lot of you seem to refer to yourselves as two different people - a guy and a girl - living in the same body. I was wondering why it is you feel this way, rather than feeling like they're just aspects of one whole person?

For example, I can be happy, I can be sad. I can be quiet, I can be irritatingly noisy. That doesn't mean that I see myself as four different people; happy, sad, quiet and noisy; living in one body - they're just different bits of me. Equally, I can think in a very male way sometimes (the whole maths, computers, logic bit), this doesn't mean that I see myself as one logical male person, and one emotional, irrational female person.

I'm kind of struggling with the idea that my boyfriend might contain a whole new person that I'm going to have to get to know, and hopefully like, for us to maintain a happy relationship - if it turns out that he's just the same person as he always was (albeit a bit more open, loving and intimate, rather than closed off), who just happens to wear girlie clothes and/or look like a full on girl sometimes, I think I can cope with that ok. If he is actually two different people, I may well end up feeling threatened by 'her', and this wouldn't be ok...

Views/thoughts etc?...........

[Wendy me]

i definaly am two diffrent people. who kinda clash how can wendy be happy in" his" boady???? this has caused some real conflits........power struggles if you want to think of it like that now going to thearapy trying (and its hard) to come to terms with "us" as julie m. said "the gray area" haveing strrted to get it that we are in this together helps(you can't klick you heels 3 times to make "him" go away) i love wendy she is me but she kinda liveing with this guy .......and he wont leave..........
that helpe????????i might be a nut job....a little crazy..........alittle out their.......
but one step at a time we will get their

[Fiona K]

Hi Lily,
I can understand your confusion/ concern and can only speak for myself. I tend to refer to Fiona here almost as a seperate person to my male self as it often seems easier but the reality is not that clear cut- for me.

The feminine thoughts, feelings don't disappear when my "other" clothes go back into the attic, niether- if I'm truly honest- do some of the masculine traits when I'm in Femme (see previous angry political posts!).
Maybe that's the Androgyne verdict coming through?

I treasure my time en femme, it is a special time but as you know my coming out as TG has caused pain to my wife and I have been questioning myself along the lines of this thread for a few days.

There is a balance between the two versions of me, a spectrum if you like. The girls here may be on different points of the spectum between masculine and feminine but in my case I'm still one person, if my wife and I ever reach the place you and your "other half" have I'd be extatic! This will take time, if ever.

I honestly think it is just easier to talk about here if we "seperate" femme and drab. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's my tuppence-worth.
Love
Fiona
xxx

[Stephanie Brooks]

Hi Lily!

Here's my view.

When I can be myself, when Stephanie isn't repressed, there's no difference between male and female side. The personality doesn't change, the person doesn't change. The values remain the same. The two names are in part a matter of convenience to differentiate genders, though I'd rather have been born female.

When Stephanie is repressed, the remaining "male" side is ugly, damaged. The creativity is reduced, there is no affection. Life is survival, sometimes minute by minute. It is empty and without vitality.

When Stephanie is free, I'm creative, affectionate, alive, whether en homme or en femme. I'm whole. There's no difference between the man and the woman.

[Georgette]

Modern medicine has a name for us some may call us Bi-polar which I believe that we may be I know when my Georgette side is dominant I am a much softer and caring person than what the macho male side I cuss out drivers that irritate me and do things I wouldn't do en femme. This is just my opinion. HUGS

[Wendy me]

i think that gray area is right (explanes a lot) still looking ,still working on it

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Lily,
Here is what I would share as a GG, one who loves a CD and being a psychotherapist. I think gender is on a continium. For most of us that continium is rather fluid and yet 'jelled'; we identify with our assign gender and yet can express traits from the other gender. Like you said, you identify as female and yet can express traits considered sterotypically male (i.e., logical, 'tough-nosed', unemotional). This aspect of gender, I believe, is primarily learned. It's what the culture tells us is male or female and what is acceptable in terms of that expression of gender. Now, for males in our society, I think they are in a unique position. Because at their end of the gender continium, the expectations for the expression of gender is rather rigid (i.e., boys shouldn't cry, "take it like a man", etc.). Some boys and men simply accept this and try to conform to the expectations of their gender and do so well. This, however, doesn't mean they're the most functional human beings on the planet in my book. Now for other men and I think for a variety of reasons, some biological, some due to nuture and some due to nature--this is not so clear. I think for some a split in their gender occurs when they may have tried on nylons for the first time and received sexual feelings, as well as some rather specific feminine feelings. This may start them on an exploration of their gender. For them what seems like a whole different person emerges. ANd for some, this different person seems to be quite distinct for them. Eventually for some, this separate person may end up being their dominant expression of gender and with what they feel most accurately reflects their inner self. And for others, as Wendy said, there may be a tug of war so to speak of the two genders. Going back and forth between the two. Maybe wanting the gender to remain one but feeling torn if they don't express the two sides they don't feel whole. This is my rather simplified analysis of what I think about gender and how I think about it. Hope it helps.

hugs
kew

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Maude,
Nothing wrong with that. I think for each it is different and that is okay. I don't think there's any right way to be or feel about your gender. I think the key is to accept where you are and that where you are is okay. Afterall, it is a continium.

hugs
kew

[Wendy me]

Kew

I was hopin you would show up !

Don't know how to splain it but sometimes it feels like two distinct individuals ? When i took the Cogiati test my results were (Androgyne) and it mentioned both sexes ? Maybe my mind has not let them combine. it just seems easier right now to treat them separate ?
Sounds like i need to go with Julie M to her next therapy session !!

maude

thats grate if you can get them to play nice together .that would be way to eazy for me (someones allways standing inthe cornor)

[Wendy me]

Play together ??? are you kiddin ..

I have to keep my guard up otherwise there would be incest in this family !

maude

maude wow that gives ahole new meaning to go fuc_ yuor slefe

wow ,wow well let me say.................well never mind

[kimmjacoby]

Lily
I Can Only Speak For My Self.
I'm Now 52 Years Old, And Been Crosdressing Since The Age Of 10.
As A Young Adult, It Was Necessary To Crossdress To Allow That Feminine Part Of My Personality To Come Out In Public.
In Drab, I Did All The Things Most Bad Boys Do.

At This Point In My Evolution, In Drab, Both Sides Are Intergrated Together. I'm Softer, Much More Understanding, Compassionate, Etc. All The Traits That Socity Would Sterio-type As Female.
I Still Go Out Le Femme, But Not As Often As Earlier In My Life. I Do Still Enjoy The Empowerment It Provides When Out Le Femme, I Never Have To Pay For My Own Drinks.

Unfortunately, (this Puts The Cart Ahead Of The Horse) Some Of Us Need The Acceptance Of Others Before We Can Accept Ourselves.

[Amelie]

Now you are going to here something bizzare. I have two personalities that I know of, there might be more. But my two personalities are both female. I have no male personality. I have two freaking women inside of me constantly fighting. One wants to be here, the other wants no part of this place. I am a different person when I go out, compared to the one that wants to stay in.
In fact, they both have seperate friends. Each of the personalities friends never meet each other, they are seperate.

Amelie

[Wendy me]

Now you are going to here something bizzare. I have two personalities that I know of, there might be more. But my two personalities are both female. I have no male personality. I have two freaking women inside of me constantly fighting. One wants to be here, the other wants no part of this place. I am a different person when I go out, compared to the one that wants to stay in.
In fact, they both have seperate friends. Each of the personalities friends never meet each other, they are seperate.

Amelie

that not bizzare no way............isen't that the way everyboady is????????

[Stephanie Brooks]

Amelie,

That explains lots.

On the forum, I see someone whom I admire. In you I see goodness and strength. I see an inner beauty. I also see distance, stoicism, and shadows of the street. I see survivor.

Yes I suspect if I ever saw you irl, I'd see a different side, but I bet I'd admire the core person at least as much as I do now.

[Sweet Susan]

When I am home and dressed as Susan, I am still me. I do many of the things I'd like to do, but I'm almost always alone, and the wife doesn't really like the primping,etc. However, on the rare ocassion that I go out, say to a trans meeting, I actually do make a distinct change. Whether it is purposeful or inflected or simply garrish attempts, I'm never sure, I just know that I "feel" much more inclined to be a different person and personality. Having said that, I'm the same great guy or gal that I have always known.

[christine55]

Hi all.


Basically, a lot of you seem to refer to yourselves as two different people - a guy and a girl - living in the same body. I was wondering why it is you feel this way, rather than feeling like they're just aspects of one whole person?



..........

Lily, this exactly describes what I have been struggling with. I've seen as I see myself dressing more and more a definite neglect of my male self which is plainly very self destructive. One thing which I think might help is to work on things pertaining to my male life, (seeking better job, improving my job skills,
etc.) while I am in Christine mode. The idea that tg people are two different individuals is a harmful distortion of the truth. While I certainly feel and act differently depending on the mode I am currently in Christine is very definitely alive in R as is R very much alive in Christine. To quote a famous sailor "I yam what I yam"
Hugs, Christine

[Fiona K]

Kew hit it exactly for me, Gender is a continium, not a spectrum!!

We each are in our place on that continum, sadly (western) society is intolerant if you're not at the opposite extremes so we perhaps tend to seperate our outside persona from that which is inside, at least in our interactions with society.

When we're here though, I feel we see people as they really are, friends with unique understanding of much of what the others feel.

Love
Fiona

[Sharon]

For the most part Sharon and "him" have two pretty distinct personalities, each very much at peace with themselves. He's into stereotypical guy stuff: sports, women, cars, woodworking, and so forth. I'm (Sharon again!) more aware of me: how I look, how others look at me, how I feel, etc.
"He's" more sensitive that the average male, but not unusually so. He's just more aware of other's feelings and how he can express his own (through writing).
I have taken this sensitivity that he has and have expanded on it, although, to be honest, I'm never really a "girly" person even when I pamper myself the most. I still have the same interests, I just might be found putting together a bookcase in my finest, that's all .
So, as I write this, I suppose there has been a melding of the personalities, but they're still two separate people.
Sharon

[Amelie]

Ameilie

Which one should I hit on ?


maude

Maude, You don't want to meet the other person. She is kinda evil, She would rob you, strip you naked and tie you to a lamp-post in downtown Balt.
Unless you like this sort of stuff?
Amelie

[JennyCD]

As for myself, I am definately not two different people. I am one whole person. While I do have both a male and a female side, which side is dominant at a given moment depends on the situation. Hmm, that's not even exactly right. It's more like, which personality charactoristics are needed for a situation. They are both, male and female, a part of me equally.

I have often wondered about the split personality thing as my inner dialog has always been "we" "us" "our" ect.... I don't think I've ever internally referred to myself as "I". To be honest, I've alwasy thought that was a bit weird, but then I also have no idea whether everyone else does the same thing or not.

The biggest thing about CDing is that it gives me a chance to explore and develop those traits that society deems to be "female" and boys/men aren't suppose to exhibit. For me, it's more of becoming a whole complete person instead of just half of one.

[Marianne]

I'm not two different people, I just have stronger/weaker personality aspects that take the forefront depending on whether I'm dressed, dressed and madeup or in 'drab'.

[Lily_gg]

Hmmmmm *frowns slightly in thought*

Thanks for all the answers so far everyone - keep 'em coming!

It's reassuring for me to see that at least some of you are talking about yourselves in the same way that I talk about myself - one person with lots of different facets, both traditionally male and female. For example, things I enjoy/am good at: DIY, baking/cooking, cross-stitch kits, playing music, mathematics, logic puzzles, computers & bit of programming, building Airfix model kits, driving like a loon with a death-wish, painting my nails, reading/watching sci-fi, reading/watching rom-coms, shopping (shoes!!!)...

But none of these things ever made me question that I was a girl - I was a tomboy as a kid, but still a girl - and I've never felt the need to look like a guy, even when I wear 'guy' clothes/do 'guy' things - this is why I'm struggling to understand this wanting to look/be completely femme thing I think. I do sometimes wish I could be more 'girlie' though - maybe bf and I can learn that together?

And the continuum thing does make sense to me (thanks Kew!), it was just this expression of it as two people that I didn't understand. I guess maybe the two people expression scares me slightly, because, from what I've read on here, it sounds very "I'm two people, but I want to get rid of that one, and be completely this one" - I don't want to lose my boyfriend...

Anyhow, I'm finding all this really interesting - please continue? And I'm sure I'll find out bfs views on who/what he is once he gets here (soon!)

[Marianne]

Lily,
I often refer to 'Marianne' as a different person. Usually when I'm chatting with friends on other message boards and the conversation goes that way.

I'll say something like "As 'Marianne' I would/wouldn't do that", or 'I would, but Marianne wouldn't'.

It's not a different personality so much as a way to express a different aspect yet maintain the distinction that some attitudes/behavior patterns are predominantly associated with the 'male' side and some are predominantly associated with the 'female' side.

For example, in 'male' mode I look at a pretty girl and see a pretty girl. In 'female' mode I look at a pretty girl and look at how she's done her makeup, whether she's 'accessorized', whether the colors match and usually my first thoughts include "I wonder what that outfit would look on me". In female mode I kind of 'bury' the male thought process of "I wonder what she would look like naked?".

I guess it's more 'aspect' than anything else for me.

[carolynhcd]

I do not now feel, nor have I ever felt, that there was any kind of split or double personality. My mannerisms change when I dress, and through time my life in drab has become more comfortable with expressing those more feminine mannerisms. I just don't much care what people think of me now. I have lived in Hollywood and San Francisco, I have acted in theatre and opera, many of my best friends have been gay and lesbian (I myself am bi) and I have learned to be myself and not to "act" when I don't want to act. I have always viewed the centralization of modes of behaviour to be the ideal, meaning that I could behave with what society views as masculine AND feminine gestures, values, behaviour as seemed most reflective of who I have always felt myself to be. I think that I have been very lucky in all of this, because of the course of study I set for myself while yet a child. Many of the girls on this site are focussed on their christian upbringing, and cannot help but judge themselves accordingly. In time, they come to some composition that they can live with. But I think that common christianity is a very destructive creed for those who wish to transcend the world they have inherited. While I was a very pious catholic youth, my studies of world mythology allowed me to see many other ways of being than the limited world view profferred by nominal christianity. I have spent years studying christianity, as well, but when one reads the many gospels and other texts suppressed by the early church fathers, one sees there are many other ways of seeing Jesus and the way of following him, if that be one's bent. Studying Greek, Roman, Norse, Gaelic, Hindu, Buddhist and North American Indian mythologies provides wider vistas of possibility. I think it is common, in the early psychological stages of self-acceptance in crossdressers, to manufacture the split personality. It allows an escape valve for guilt. I believe that with time and YOUR acceptance, your friend's self acceptance will find less need for the escape valve as the guilt may well be lessened. By way of example, many on this site have mentioned that, in the early stages of their dressing, they experienced a definite sexual component, an erotic thrill that, when slaked through Onanism, prompted an immediate rejection of their actions and a quick change back into drab. Almost universally, this declines with time and they feel more comfortable and less titillated. I feel that the recent brouhaha on this site has created somewhat of a chilling effect on intelligent discussion of what we all know to be the case. So, I will leave it here and invite you to PM me for any further discussion of this matter at carolynhcd@yahoo.com.

[T-girlMichelle]

I'd have say there isn't two distinct personalities exactly. It's more like two boxes that I put myself into, Michelle is always around and likes to think shes in charge and in a perfect world she would be. But the world is full of evil, homophobic, nasty people. So I let Michael run the show, but it's realy all me just trying to over compensate for my femme ways.