Drag Queen attacked in NYC

[trannie T]

There are two posts advocating carrying handguns. This is fine if it is legal, which usually requires a permit, something most often difficult to obtain. Carrying a handgun without a permit can get you into a world of s***. Do you want to go before the court and explain why you were illegally posessing a handgun while wearing a dress?
There are other ways to be safe;
1. Know your surroundings, be aware of those around you, if you are uncomfortable, get out.
2. Go out with others, bullies are cowards, if they are at risk of getting a few lumps of their own they will usually leave you alone.
3. Carry pepper spray, it is cheap and very effective, just make sure your local laws permit you to carry it.
4. If you are attacked, fight dirty. Go for the eyes, go for the gonads, a high heel shoe or a ring of keys can be an effective weapon.

[Kimberley]

Pepper spray is good... hairspray is better and just as effective and LEGAL everywhere.

[Kimberley]

I for one am in favor of Capitol Punishment,(just take them out back and shoot them) It reduces the crime rate and saves the tax payers that's us a hell of a lot of money.

************
In China, they send the family a bill for the bullet used in execution.... yeah that's the ticket...

How about you put them in a prison block full of TG's? Now there is punishment that fits the crime...

Kimberley.

[tekla west]

Judged by 12 or carried by 6? Granted a gun w/o a permit will get you into big time trouble. However - and its a HUGE however - no jerk-wads like the cheep thugs who did this attack will ask you if you have a permit for that weapon as you point it at them. dig?

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I have a question. Will the DA prosecute this as a hate crime? or will it be just another assault?

All four have been charged with first-degree assault as a hate crime.

As far as firearms, while I'm dubious about the value of people actually carrying them for the reasons Wenda mentioned, I thought feminist Naomi Wolf made an interesting point about the deterence value of criminals knowing someone might be armed. To paraphrase Wolf, imagine if your local TG organization announced (and got a lot of press about) putting on "markmanship for trannies" course.

[Toni]

[SIZE=4]I was attacked (Or at least my car was while I was in it) by a gang of 8 or 10 women and I have to say it really messes up your confidence (Which you need a lot of when you go out fully en femme) and it makes it very difficult to go out again. Although I wasn't hurt in the attack and I've been out since, I still find myself looking around the way I used to when I first came out and not really strutting my stuff at all as I used to do. I always tried to dress my age and didn't rub peoples noses in it but, I still got caught out by some mindless morons. In spite of everything though I would not condone going out with Messers Smith & Wesson[/SIZE]

[Kimberley]

All four have been charged with first-degree assault as a hate crime.

As far as firearms, while I'm dubious about the value of people actually carrying them for the reasons Wenda mentioned, I thought feminist Naomi Wolf made an interesting point about the deterence value of criminals knowing someone might be armed. To paraphrase Wolf, imagine if your local TG organization announced (and got a lot of press about) putting on "markmanship for trannies" course.

************
Thanks Marlena. I hope they are severely punished.
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I am going to toss in a firecracker here.
In Canada we have gun control
Canada has more firearms per capita than the USA
Canada has a lower rate of capital crime.
Canada has a lower tate of capital murder with firearms.

NOW,
Canada has also become a huge market for the smuggling of illegal firearms from the US.

Sorry but the whole s/he who has the biggest bullet wins doesnt wash with me. It is a societal problem that cant be legislated. Society and its attitudes need to change first. To do that people need to look at what our children are seeing.

Pick any night of television. How many programs involve murder?
What are the commercials?
Pick any hour of "music" television. What is the message?
Pick any video game. What is the scenario?
Listen to any pop radio station. What are the DJ's saying?
OK now listen to the message on the "religious" broadcasts and do it with an open and skeptical mind. The message changes when viewed with skepticism.

I am not advocating censorship. You will not find anyone more opposed to censorship than me. I am however advocating good parenting with guidance toward alternatives that offer good values.

As parents we are a HUGE part of this problem and many of us are just too lazy to do anything about it except complain and leave it up to others.

Just my opinions and I know, they aren't humble.

Kimberley.

[ReginaK]

There you go...
Just start shooting people. That'll solve everything.

No. Just when your life in danger. I'd take a night in a police station over a night in a hospital or worse. But i'm lucky. If I shot someone who was attacking me the law is on my side in my state. Not all states have laws that allow that.

[GG Vanya]

that is the slogan for the state in which I reside. Guns are very common here, from those in the gun racks in pickemup trucks, to the Lady Smith and Wessons carried by the ladies here.

It is an extremely common sight when visiting, to see two are three guns propped up in a corner near the front door, and built in gun cabinets in great rooms (ours included). It is the "norm".

Home invasions and burglaries are almost non existent here. Would be burglars know damn well, the occupants are equally, if not better, armed, and yes we WILL shoot.

CCP's (conceal carry permits) are on a "must issue" basis here, meaning unLESS the person applying is a convicted felon, has mental/emotional deficiencies, or is otherwise legally unqualified, they receive the permit. Many states require that you prove a "need" for CCP's (carrying large amounts of cash for business, bounty hunter, etc).

Thankfully, here in the sportsman's paradise, the constitution is still defended and respected regarding firearms.

Vanya aka Yosemite Sally

[christine55]

If firearms suddenly became illegal only the criminals and the cops would have them. Do you trust the cops to protect you? Do you trust the cops period. If they were the only ones to own firearms legally, knowing how heavy handed and ridiculous the government can be, would they become just another bunch of thugs. (in some areas they already are, apologies to the great majority of honest and ethical officers). San Fran recently made private ownership of handguns illegal, thankfully just overturned by the courts.
I want access to a firearm if I need one. I don't like the idea of everyone carrying one around. Hot tempered people, drunk people, idiots, jerks all going around armed????
Just a thought, if you had a little .25 in your purse and someone started insulting you badly would you pull the gun? Is it ok to brandish for an insult?
Anyone with any sense says never to point a gun unless you are ready and willing to shoot. Are you willing to shoot?, too willing? You would hope the jerk would back off, frightened of your gun. Trouble is that not all drunk jerks will. Many will step forward and slap that little gun right out of your hand. Then probably beat the crap out of you. Or you be scared and kill some idiot for insulting you. Should the jerk be killed for being a drunk jerk?
Have you ever been a drunk jerk? Its great to talk tough about dealing with crime but when it comes to carrying deadly force I don't think very many of us need to or should. I am glad I have a 12 gauge available but I hope and pray that I will not feel the need to use it. At times we all need protection. On the street the best protection is often walking away. Bashings happen but I doubt that being armed would have helped Kevin much. These things happen much too fast. Same with a robbery. Someone holding a knife to your throat, do you have time to go into your purse and get your gun, take the safety off and shoot? I doubt it. With all the states where more and more people are carrying, criminals are more scared to do stuff, but I guarantee that there will be many more shootings for various reasons. People are just generally too stupid to go around armed. Myself included. Imagine a high school with all the students armed. Most adults are not that much more mature.
Hugs, Christine

[Kimberly]

We've got a long way to go...

And it's making me want to sit in my room much much longer before going out... whenever that is.

[jamie_44]

This was a horrible story, and I hope Kevin recuperates quickly. Kevin needs the medical help but the thugs are the ones that really need MENTAL help. I mean, to do something this evil, what kind of mental state are you in. These people have no clue what it is to LOVE and some go their entire lives full of hate. Anyway it is a wake up call that you should have other girls with you when going out to clubs.

[Noel Chimes]

Now here in St.Louis where they just passed a right to carry law,to get a permit to cary, you have to:
1. Pass an approved gun safety course.
2. Criminal background check.
3. 2 forms of I.D. ( birth certificate must be one of them)
4. Must have permit first before purchase.
5. Store must run a check before purchase (21 day wait)
But even with all that guns still will fall into the wrong hands. My son even told my wife, " I can get a gun faster than you can". That's something for a teenager to say.
For some odd reason people fear us. And for that reason alone some parts of society feel they have to conqure their fear with a show of brute force. However, I have only seen one or two replies advocating fight force with force. Who was it that said, " all's fair in love and war". In other words, kick 'em where it hurts. HARD!!!!!!!!
If you can find a GOOD school for Martial Arts, enroll. I do not know how they will respond if they knew your real reason for signing up, but who says you have to tell. But having at least one shot to save your backside sure beats having it handed to you.
BTW the only time your to shoot in "self defense", is when you have no other way to escape or option. (Note to self: Put Vasoline and running shoesback in car. Also find 18" louiville. They work girlz.

[CaptLex]

Anyway it is a wake up call that you should have other girls with you when going out to clubs.

I think it would be a good idea if bouncers or someone from the club would see a person safely into a cab. A lot of times these bashers are waiting outside gay clubs and other like establishments to grab us, so we have to find ways to stay safe.

I'm not going to join the firearms debate, but I consider gay- and trans-bashing a form of terrorism. How is this unlike Al Qaeda's mentality? They want to strike fear into us and make us constantly look over our shoulder. Well, we should be careful out there, but let's not let them stop us altogether 'cause then they win.

[ReginaK]

If firearms suddenly became illegal only the criminals and the cops would have them. Do you trust the cops to protect you? Do you trust the cops period...<snip>

I trust cops, but the reaction time between when the police are called and when they arrive is between 15-20 minutes. Even during an armed robbery in progress, unless a cop is right down the street, the quickest they can get to you is in 10 minutes. More than enough time to be beaten, robbed, killed, and give the perp a 5 minute head start in a random direction. You can even get the fire department faster than that in most places. You simply can't depend on the law to be there for you 100% of the time.

As for hot tempered people, drunken idiots, idiots etc, if they have a gun and they get angry enough to shoot, they're going to do it anyway. Gun laws have about as much of affect over them as the common criminal. As far as brandishing a weapon, i've been taught to never pull it out unless you're going to use it. Most law abiding gun owners do the same

As for being ready to shoot, that's completely up to the individual. People who even remotely think they can't shoot a person or suppress their own urges just to shoot anyone who looks scary shouldn't carry a gun. It could get them in even more trouble than not carrying a gun. And you don't always have to shoot to kill. Proper gun training teaches you to shoot to stop. Usually in a leg, arm, or to the sides of the torso. Shooting to kill is a last ditch.

Walking away from a situation is good and should always be your first action. But sometimes it doesn't work. Always have a backup plan:

0. Use common sense. Avoid places where trouble happens. No dark alleys. Stay away from the bad sides of town. Stay with as many friends as possible. It trouble still finds you..
1. Walk away. If that doesn't work...
2. Run. If they run after you and you can't run faster than them...
3. Turn around and fight (if you can, have a blunt object for a weapon). If you can't fight..
4. Draw. If they don't back off...
5. Shoot to stop them or slow them down. If you live in a state with a "Stand your ground" style law, you have little to worry about other than the legality of your weapon. Most banned guns can't fit in a purse anyway.

Unless your attacker is criminally insane or someone strung out on high amounts of narcotics, that should be enough to get away and call the police. If not...

6. Shoot to kill.

And you don't need a hand cannon. A small gun will work. Bullets are bullets and they ALL hurt. I just keep a small .38 revolver. Nothing fancy, but I feel safer having it. Mostly because i've seen too many people shot in the back while running away.

Remember: A few weeks of filling out paperwork or even jail time is far better than dying. If your life is truly in danger, don't be afraid to defend yourself. People say they are willing to do anything to protect their family and children. Are you willing to do the same for yourself?

[purple_spider GG]

I think that even in the most liberal places you will get the odd thuggery elements, chavs, neds, whatever you call them who react violently to someone who is different.

My partner is a full time transgender and she was in NYC last year and said that she had a really nice time and no one said anything, apart from one very loud woman in a hotel who commented to her friend (and the whole lobby) "OH MY GAAAAAAD ITS A MAAAAAAAN!" Louise just ignored her but that was the only incident she got.

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[lostmyhubby GG]

Hey us women go out in numbers....and we are the real deal we are no less suseptible to attacks,rape,muggings etc...than cd'rs or any other group gender.......truth is the world is the way it is.....i dont see it changing blacks have been fighting for equality for years and years and i still dont see the respect they deserve no more than any other group out there. Its just the worlds ignorace about accepting others as equals, why cant we all get along and be happy....because there is always someone out there who doesnt want to get along with you cause they are threatened in some way whether they know you or not. Chaulk it up to stupidity and ignorance and go out in numbers...besides its more fun anyway.....children you wouldnt let out alone,women dont go out in clubs bars etc alone.....same difference.\

Lostmyhubby gg