JC Penny's would not let me use the fitting room

[Robertacd]

I went to the mall today during lunch, and decided to pop into Penny's since I always liked their Underscore brand crisscross bras. (such a feminine basic) Anyway I have noticed since I have been losing weight that once you drop below a band size of 40 a whole new world of lingerie opens up. So I saw these JC penny's bras in 38A and 38 almost B. I grabbed a couple and went over to the girl who was stocking the racks and held up the two bras and asked if I could use the fitting room. She said "You're not allowed to use them". I said I understand her consern, but there is no one else in there (there was hardly anyone in the whole store) and said she could check first, it will only take me a couple minutes. But she insisted that it was not allowed. So I handed her the two bras and told her that Lane Bryant, has no problems with me trying on stuff so I will go there next time instead of here, and left in a huff. I know she could probably care less about LB, but I think I will send an email to JCP about how disappointed I was.

[Courtneygurl]

If she doesn't want your money, so be it! Her loss! And by extension, a loss for the whole chain of stores!

I hear ya about the under-40 size bras. I used to wear 40B, but those are generally so Ugghh, but a 38C (which I understand is the "sister size" to 40B) has all sorts of styles available.

[Billijo49504]

The bra dept of our JCPenny's store, the lady wouldn't even talk to me on the phone. I never said if it was for me or for my wife. I could have been asking to buy a gift. But NO, she hung up on me. I vote with my dollar$. And Lane Bryant gets my vote and my dollar$. They knew I used to get 38C and the other day I asked for a 42B, she asked if I wanted to be measured? Now that's service.
Oh, the lady in the unmentionables dept at Sears, wanted to know why I was playing with the bras. I had 2 on hangers, hung on my finger and was looking at another. I handed her all 3 and walked out. But I did tell her, I was looking for new bras for my wife. We have been married for 21 years, buying pads and tampons doesn't bother me, so why would buying bras be such a big thing. Maybe she just couldn't cope???BJ

[Helen MC]

If I shop in person, rare these days as I greatly prefer to buy my female clothing over the Internet, I ensure that I am as uncontroversial as possible , know what I intend to purchase, the correct sizes, the style I want, etc. Select the items take them to the check-out and pay for them without comment or unnecessary chat with the shop assistant. If she does bother to ask, and over here in the UK most don't, I think they are trained not to at least with male customers, I will give them the answer they want to hear, e.g, if she says "If these don't fit your partner she can bring them back with the receipt" I will just nod and thank her and not tell her they are for me. If she guesses that is her problem, not mine. I am simply another customer buying the goods her employer pays her to sell, that is her job, any any comments by her are both unwelcome and un-needed. For my part I do not do or say anything to make the shop assistant or women customers uncomfortable. I will give any woman plenty of space if she is examining panties, bras, etc and wait till she had moved away before I go to that self . I have a quick look to ensure that they are the size and type that I want but do not fondle or intimately examine them . To be honest I would not wish to try on any female clothing in a store's fitting rooms, I will do so in privacy and comfort at home. The only exception to this was when I used to buy women's second hand clothing at a Charity (Thrift) shop and the manageress who was sympathetic to TVs and had many as customers did allow me to go into the back of the shop and try on items I wished to purchase. Unfortunately this shop closed when the area , a run down inner city, was redeveloped.

In an ideal world men buying female clothing would be able to use the shop's Fitting Rooms without question but alas bias still exists and it would only take an unfortunate incident where a woman (or female shop assistant) felt threatened and perhaps her husband or male parter became involved and this got reported by a largely hostile press for the cause of TVs and CDs to be set back years. I can just see the headline in the "Sun" (a prurient UK part of the Gutter Press) "Angry Hubby decks TV Pervert in Marks and Sparks Fitting Room" NOT the type of publicity we need.

[trannie T]

I sent an email to J C Penney corporate headquarters asking about access to their dressing rooms. I will post here when I receive a reply.

[noname]

Several years ago I was really into camping. I was looking a sleeping bags. I made the observation that mens sleeping bags are no different from womens, except they cost more. So I selected sleeping bag, and asked if they had any in stock. They looked at me wierd, uhhh.... that's a womens sleeping bag. What is the difference I ask? That sleeping bag is designed for the sleeping patterns of a women. What?!? It fit's me it's a sleeping bag, and it's 30 dollars cheaper, I'll take it! lol

as far as changing rooms go, just use the mens changing room. As far as that lady asking if you were playing with the bras, you should have asked if she asks all her customers that. I'm sure she was thinking pervert, but really, my word. Notice her word choice, she's not asking what your doing. Pretty low.

[Deena]

Before our last TriEss Chapter meeting I was shopping at JC Penney (dressed as Deena) and found two tops that I wanted to try on. I went to the female clerk and identified myself as a cross dresser and told her I wanted to use the fitting room. At first she was taken back a little but contacted the manager and found a fitting room I could use. One of the tops fit just fine and when I took it to her to purchase the item, all she said was "Did I find something that I wanted?". I guess it depends on who waits on you and how you approach that person. Being up front and straight forward seems to work for me.

Hugs, Deena

[Bernadina]

I just take things over to the mens.

[Stephenie S]

I have never had this problem specifically in JCP. In this particular case I would have asked to see the manager. I WAS told in the local Coldwater Creek that I could not use the dressing room by a SA. The manager however was VERY welcoming and suportive. Managers have a better eye on the bottom line and usually know where the money comes from. I'm glad someone is writing to the corporate hdqts. This may make some difference.

Always ask to speak to the manager. If they turn you away, then you can close your purse and leave.

I think this problem will be getting less and less as time goes on.

Stephenie

[ava_bruna]

the 1st person to bother me when I go out dressed for the 1st time. even if im not good looking, I'll go to any dam store I please and if a sale's person give's me a hard time i'll call a cop. and then my lawyer, God help them I served in the Army for 3 yrs for this?

[Jennaie]

Several years ago I was really into camping. I was looking a sleeping bags. I made the observation that mens sleeping bags are no different from womens, except they cost more. So I selected sleeping bag, and asked if they had any in stock. They looked at me wierd, uhhh.... that's a womens sleeping bag. What is the difference I ask? That sleeping bag is designed for the sleeping patterns of a women. What?!? It fit's me it's a sleeping bag, and it's 30 dollars cheaper, I'll take it! lol

as far as changing rooms go, just use the mens changing room. As far as that lady asking if you were playing with the bras, you should have asked if she asks all her customers that. I'm sure she was thinking pervert, but really, my word. Notice her word choice, she's not asking what your doing. Pretty low.

Womens sleeping bags are usually shorter in length and have a bit wider girth at the hip. Because they are a bit smaller, they usually contain less fill as well as covering and therefore are a bit cheaper. The design has nothing to do with the sleeping patterns of females. Some salespeople will say anything.

[sandra-leigh]

I'll go to any dam store I please and if a sale's person give's me a hard time i'll call a cop. and then my lawyer, God help them I served in the Army for 3 yrs for this?

In Canada something could possibly be made to stick, legally, under non-discrimination laws (the Canada Human Rights Act, and the Canada Charter of Rights and Freedoms.) We've had Supreme Court cases that ruled firmly against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and even gay marriage was approved in Parliament (federal level) after having already been declared legal in high courts in more than half of the provinces.

But from your reference to "cop" and "the army", it sounds as if you are in the USA. I cannot think of the moment of what law you would ask for proceedings under in the USA? It would have to have been a fairly... energetic... incident for assault or protective orders to apply, and the First Amendment would cover a lot of ground in the other person's freedom to tell you exactly what they thought of your appearance (doesn't mean you have to stay and listen to them). I'm not aware that the US Civil Rights Act covers discrimination against CDers... and isn't CRA violations a matter of -civil- law (i.e., not something that the police would get involved in) ?

[Julogden]

In Canada something could possibly be made to stick, legally, under non-discrimination laws (the Canada Human Rights Act, and the Canada Charter of Rights and Freedoms.) We've had Supreme Court cases that ruled firmly against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and even gay marriage was approved in Parliament (federal level) after having already been declared legal in high courts in more than half of the provinces.

But from your reference to "cop" and "the army", it sounds as if you are in the USA. I cannot think of the moment of what law you would ask for proceedings under in the USA? It would have to have been a fairly... energetic... incident for assault or protective orders to apply, and the First Amendment would cover a lot of ground in the other person's freedom to tell you exactly what they thought of your appearance (doesn't mean you have to stay and listen to them). I'm not aware that the US Civil Rights Act covers discrimination against CDers... and isn't CRA violations a matter of -civil- law (i.e., not something that the police would get involved in) ?

In some parts of the USA, there are anti-discrimination laws at the city, county and state levels that prohibit discrimination based on gender or real or perceived gender identity. I don't know whether it would apply in Roberta's case, as I don't know what her local laws are where she is.

Carol

[Rachel Morley]

I've never tried bras on yet, but with all my other feminine clothes purchases I always take them (and I'm totallly open about doing this) to the mens fitting room....that is, if I'm in drab. If I'm dressed en femme, I'll always go to the women's fitting room.

The comment about "Playing with the bras"....I find this attitude offensive

[Deidra Cowen]

I'm a changing room chicken! I have used the changing room at my fav thrift store a couple of times since that is unisex. Then a really agressive yet nice sales lady at Lane Bryant all but made me use their dressing room.

She was very cool I wrote here about it a while back...but she was so hip to what was going on that she even made sure I did not have to talk at the cash register. Which was a relief considering that all of a sudden a lady with like three kids came to the register at the same time.

That all being said I have developed a 'sixth sense' for what fits me...I have little trick like holding my arm againist an item and knowing about where it should line up to fit. So I skip all that...I can blend in fairly good enfemme...but the gig is up if I have to interact very much with my DEEP male voice.

But I am indeed sorry you had such an experience, thats why I am such a chicken to avoid that!

[kathy gg]

If it is a ladies fitting room, the solution is to ask "where then can I try on these items?" IF the store then continues to not allow you to try on an item, then that is a problem for sure. And no doubt you shoudl be taking your business elsewhere.

I am going to play devils advocate and say that I think alot of new-to retail-or uninformed about "life" might be hesitant because they might think he man is going into the change area is "peep". And let's be honest and real there are perverts out there who do sneak into ladies areas for the sole intent purpose of being gross.

I know cd's are not going into a change facitlity with that intention because I am informed regarding he tg community. But most women are not informed about tg issues and to jump to an assumption like I just brought up is very possible.

That said, ....way back in the early 90's I {a gg} was shopping at a huge Dillards and at the time there were these awesome men's shorts in very vivid colors that I just loved. The ladies and men's sections are miles apart...I saw a few that I thought might fit and when I asked the SA if I coudl just pop in the men's area to try them on {there are individual rooms with doors} he said that this area was for men only and that I could for sure try them on, but I would have to take them to the ladies area. Sounded reasonable, so I did and I wound up with my cool shorts.

I think not allowing someone to try something on at all, is without a doubt discrimination, but to insist on using the opposite's gender's change room is pushing it, espically if you were in male mode.

[Joy Carter]

I had trouble one time I wished I had told them that my money must not be good enough and left. But me being stubborn I stood my ground and made my purchase it was a challenge to me after the first rude word.

[tv_rachael]

i have to agree,

if i was in drab i wouldnt expect to be allowed in the LADIES lingerie changing room - and if i really wanted to try a bra on i would expect to goto the mens,

BUT if i was en femme - i would be upset if they didnt let me use it....


either way - i wouldnt try lingerie on in a store - i buy it - take it home, if i dont like it - take it back

much easier - and avoids any issues....

[GG Vanya]

In the US, once you take underwear home, it is not returnable. Health law.

Even bathing suits must be tried on in the store while wearing underwear.

I like those laws.

Now, as far as genetic males in changing rooms....

Fitting rooms are a tad different from restrooms in that sometimes (I've done this often) if something is the wrong size, we'll pad to the door in our underwear,(or partially dressed) peek out, and ask a S/A to bring another size for us. Keeps us from having to totally redress to simply go out and grab another size.

I'd hate to know I'm padding around in stocking feet and underwear with a genetic male in the fitting room area.

I know that I've said when going to restrooms you should go to the one in which gender you are presenting. Restrooms afford privacy, closed doors on stalls, and you're "covered" once you come out of the stall.

This is not the case in fitting rooms, which are essentially for dressing and undressing.

I'm sure my position won't be popular on this, but it is what it is.

[Jennaie]

If I am shopping for ladies clothing and expect to use the ladies dressing rooms, I shop en-femme.

At a large dept store, I would personally feel like I was behaving inappropriately by requesting to use the ladies dressing room while dressed as a male.

When shopping en-femme, I don't ask, I just do, like the rest of the girls.
If I happen to be dressed in drab and I am shopping in the womens dept, I just grab what I want to try on and walk out, up the escalator and into the mens dept dressing rooms. I ask for permission from nobody.

[SherryLynn GG]

In the US, once you take underwear home, it is not returnable. Health law.

Even bathing suits must be tried on in the store while wearing underwear.

I like those laws.

Now, as far as genetic males in changing rooms....

Fitting rooms are a tad different from restrooms in that sometimes (I've done this often) if something is the wrong size, we'll pad to the door in our underwear,(or partially dressed) peek out, and ask a S/A to bring another size for us. Keeps us from having to totally redress to simply go out and grab another size.

I'd hate to know I'm padding around in stocking feet and underwear with a genetic male in the fitting room area.

I know that I've said when going to restrooms you should go to the one in which gender you are presenting. Restrooms afford privacy, closed doors on stalls, and you're "covered" once you come out of the stall.

This is not the case in fitting rooms, which are essentially for dressing and undressing.

I'm sure my position won't be popular on this, but it is what it is.

I gotta agree with ya, if I was in a store trying on clothes and popped out half dressed to yell at the rep or someone that was with me for help I wouldnt wanna open the door and see a man standing there when its a womans dressing room....no offense to anyone here but thats why they have seperate areas

Not to mention some women are like me, im a plus size woman there fore when trying on something things im more shy than others and the last thing I wanna do is open the door and find a man staring me in the face...

I dont think its discrimination at all if youre a man, dressed as a man and you have to use the mens dressing room, regardless of what youre trying on....and sure Lane Bryant lets you use their dressing room, what choice do they have, they are a womens clothing store therefore they dont have a mens dressing room.....just my 0.02

[Denise01]

Especially if one is shopping in drab, they should be very discreet and caring about the people around if they want to try on clothing of the opposite gender.
When i am shopping for my femme clothes, i always feel much better totally femme, then when i want to try something on ( as i will not buy it if I can not try it on ) i will just go and use the femme changing room, and i always feel better when there is an attendent there, and they direct you to a ladies fitting room.

I did have a very happy experience though, a few weeks back.
I had to go to the city for a medical appointment, so naturally i was in drab.
I had some time to spare, so i stopped into the mall, and went into a ladies store that i often frequent, but any time before i was always femme.
I was looking at some items on the sale rack that kind of struck my fancy. Guess the sales girl, must have seen me looking very carefully at them and holding them up to see how they might fit, she came over and asked if she could help me. I was looking at a dress and a matching skirt and top set.
We chatted for a few seconds, just passing time, then out of the blue, she asked if I would like to try them on, she would set up a fitting room for me.
The store was not busy at the time. When i was trying them on, she found another dress on the sale rack that was my size, and brought it over, and put it over the top of the door for me to try on.
I was so pleased to be treated like a lady, even when in drab, and ended up that day with 2 dresses and the skirt set. Needless to say, i will continue to go back to that store.
I find the biggest thing is that wether i am in femme mode, or drab, is to have confidence, treat the sales people with respect, and that is what you will recieve in return.
When paying for the items, we did get chatting for a bit, i asked her if they had many TG people come into the store, and her answer, was quite a few, and after all they are only clothes, and she saw no reason why we could not wear them if it was out desire.

Denise

[rosiegurl]

I am simply another customer buying the goods her employer pays her to sell, that is her job, any any comments by her are both unwelcome and un-needed.

as someone who used to manage a womens (mainly) clothing store I can tell you the above is VERY true, and some could do with been reminded about that.

and I will say one thing, if anyact wierd or refuse you something, if you are comfertable enough, ask for the store manager, the vast majority of times they know who has the money, and their job is to please people out of their money *grins* more often than not, they will take the SA aside after you have left and tell them off, and make sure thewy don't do it again.

[Jodi]

To Sherrie and Vanya, I worked the floor as an SA for both Lerners (now New York & Co) and the Limited. Most of the time at Lerners, I worked the fitting room alcove. What would you do when opening the door if the SA was a dude? I had all things happen when working. I had women call to me and then hand an item over the door for a change of size or color. This was the norm. I actually had women come out of the individual room in bra and pantys right in front of me. I think they were trying to get a reaction. My way of dealing with it was to be cool and continue about my business as if nothing had happened.

Jodi

[GG Vanya]

Jodi,

Those customers knew upfront that they were encountering a male SA, and thereby "consented".

*I* would not walk out in front of a male SA in my underwear. 1. my discomfort. 2. the male SA's possible discomfort.

Consideration should go both ways.