I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF?

[Sarah Bayen]

This is a really good exercise at empathy. It's certainly set me thinking.

I've happily put up with my partner wearing hippy chick stuff to a formal do, and roller blading around the office at work. She's dyed her hair purple at times as well, and it's all been seen as just 'wacky'. I knew she was 'wacky' before we got together, and she knew I was a CD. In fact in the early days her main complaint was that I only did it at home, not out in the open, which made her feel it was a bit sordid.

Anyway times have changed - she's still just as wacky - sticking crystals to her forehead for a trip to the Supermarket and stuff, but my CDing is no longer liked. I have to say I feel a bit cheated by that. I miss the evenings by the fire and the shared shopping trips, as well as knowing it's put a barrier between us. I do think I've done my bit on the toleration and empathy front, and I appreciate it's not an easy issue for anyone to deal with in their partner. But I still have a nagging feeling her ( or maybe society's reflected through her ) level of acceptance isn't reciprocating my own.

[TVStevie]

I would satisfy whichever desire my wife had, provided it was a two-way street. If that included infantilism, BDSM, FTM CDing, whatever...I've got a strong enough stomach for anything, excluding animals, faeces and Conservative MP's.

[Sarah Bayen]

Oh Stevie Stevie, you're so right! Voting Conservative would be a step too far for me too!!!

[Melissa Ryan]

[SIZE="4"]I do get what you are asking Kew. I not sure how to answer, not coz I dont know what I feel. But coz every answer has an angle. I would like to think that I would be right there with Lyn with any thing. I have thought of similar things before. It cant be easy for any one to be confronted with something they didnt see comin.

Sometimes I wish there were things that I could compare for my girl. I dont think there ever will be though. I guess once its all said and done, my feelings are that it would be easier to slide slowly into something rather than to be thrown it in a big basket and asked to be the hinge.

I think I understand as I said. I love my lady. I would do almost anything for her. The beginning of that is understranding the things I dont. And to do it before I throw her in the to hard basket. (that'll never happen here!) I like this thread, its asking more than just about what I think. Thankyou![/SIZE]

[Shelly Preston]

I difficult question to answe,r and most of us would maybe have found out by now, if our wife/partner was invloved is something like this

Or would we ??

How long has each of us kept crossdressing a secret
Adult baby is very similar to crossdressing as for many they would say it only clothes.
Acceptance would be determined by the particualr fetish some I could accept some I could not.
There would be a lot of soul searching before we as a couple got through the difficult time at the begining but it would hopefully have a happy ending.


I just hope I would be as accepting as my wife is of me

[oztallulah]

Well, this may fit in with some others thoughts, but then again, maybe not. But, it is my opinion. Some of these things like wearing diapers, being tied to a rack and whipped, made to do what many think strange and wierd. But, behid closed doors, what a couple do is really not anyone elses business. As long as it is not emotionally or physically damaging. Some people like 'different' things. I do realise there are extremes in all things, and sometimes those extremes can be disturbing. I would not like to be judged as to what sort of person I am because I wear short skirts and stockings around the house. Or that I sleep in stockings. But, I have been, and will continue to be. Because I am a male that likes to wear female attire. Judge not, lest ye be judged I think is what I am trying hard to say.

[ToyGirl]

Could the OP explain why they did not just use the MTF FTM comparison?

Wichever way i look at it theres something negative about this thread.

[cath]

[Could the OP explain why they did not just use the MTF FTM comparison?]

It was done yesterday in a thread called 'Boot on the other foot'

[bgirl]

Could the OP explain why they did not just use the MTF FTM comparison?

Wichever way i look at it theres something negative about this thread.

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

[Calliope]

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

I agree. The example seems to me leading and calculated for maximum turn-off. The opening disclaimer, 'Let me first say, I fully support and even like crossdressers' got my suspicions going from the get-go. I used to debate on a capitalism-communism forum for (wasted) years - and, from my experience there, I would say this thread has the air of straw about it.

[Marla S]

Some of your behaviors maybe considered fetishistic even if you prefer you not be thought of that way.

Again, I'm trying to get you all to step outside yourselves. Think truly what a partner might feel.
[...]
Oh dear dear me!! It's not at all about secretiveness. It's more about an exercise in empathy.

First off, I think transgenderism is not comparable to wanting to be a baby, though there seem to be some "fetishistic" similarities, but IMO this view is superficial.

I would require al long post to explain (maybe later), but IMO the driving force for a TG is to feel and present pretty in a feminine way, to live a feminine life-style (if this is fetishistic, most women are fetishists), and, at least partly, being repelled by the male analog.
If this is comparable to anything (it isn't), than it is similar to "cross-culturing": i.e. if I as a German like to live as an American Indian. (Can't see fetishism in it.)

To step outside oneself means to me to look beyond the "sexualized" border and to see what's left of the CDing.
For me it's joy of life, a way of unfolding my personality, and a spiritual experience.
I didn't put eyeshadow on this morning to go to the dentist for fetishistic reasons (though they could be constructed), but to feel to look good.
Your initial question doesn't go this step, it stays within the sexualized closet.

Back to your initial question. I can't seriously answer it because there is not enough information to be empathic, but probably I'd support it.

[Eugenie]

I can understand the baby thing as a fetish and agree with some difficulty in accepting it. But, I can not compare infantilism and CDing.

Why?
This is not a theoretical discussion.
It's an exercise in empathy.
Kew
*feels like she's repeating herself*

According to quite a large number of discussions here, X-dressing is pretty much separated from a sexual fantazy for many x-dressers, so the comparison with "playing baby" which is a sexual fantazy, is not valid, I think. Unless, one is into some kind of exhuberant fetishist transvestism, which would become a major sexual fantazy for which your comparison to wearing baby diapers would hold.

The main difference with a sexual fantazy is that being dressed as a woman, just makes the x-dresser look like an ordinary woman, providing "she" is sufficiently skilled at finding proper clothes and correct makeup style.
For x-dressers who tend to dress like ordinary women, they would go unnoticed in the crowd. While an adult (any gender) wearing diapers and baby clothes would certainly not go unnoticed in any crowd.

However, I get your point. What would be our reaction if our SO came out to us with a very different life style, as different from the female "norm" as our X-dressing "en femme" is from the male "norm"? I don't have a proper example of such a "change", but that would make me think a lot.

Actually, the closest comparison would be if my SO would tell me that all these years she was a FtM X-dresser and didn't dare to tell me. But even then, for this comparison to be valid, I would have not to be myself a MtF X-dresser otherwise I would be biased in my judgement.

So on the principle, I agree with your questionning: We, as X-dressers should try more often to put ourselves into our SO's shoes... But I don't think the comparison with wearoing baby diapers works.


Eugenie

[Yes I am]

Like crossdressing, I'm sure not all people into the infantilism scene do it purely to get off sexually. The comparison is valid in that both practices, crossdressing and infantilism, are socially unacceptable. And their practitioners more than likely have struggled with their desire to do such throughout their lives. In a way this comparison, as an exercise in empathy, is superior to the mtf/ftm comparison, because it takes us crossdressers out of our realm of familiarity when considering how we'd deal with an SO's unexpected revelation concening their nature.

[Teresa Amina]

Once upon a time my late wife and I worked for the same employer. It was a fairly relaxed atmosphere most of the time and, one day, she and one of the owners were laughing at something on the computer as I walked by. "What's so funny?", I asked. "You've got to see this!", she answered. They were looking at the Diaper Pail Kids website. Yup, adults in diapers! Pretty damn funny at the time, but what if she had really liked it? And got herself all done up and I'd walked in on her? Sure I'd have freaked out! But, calming down, look at the opportunity to have come out myself and thus dealt with my TGness back then instead of now....


p.s.- glad you've got your pretty face back, Kew!

[Stephenie S]

Well girls,

Some of you got Kewt's point and some didn't.

It matters not what "fetish" or "perversion" we talk about here. She was trying to get us to take a look at our CDing from another perspective. If your wife suddenly anounced that she liked to dress up in diapers (nappies) and suck on a pacifier (and believe me, there is a sizable segment of the adult population that indulges in this practice) how would you react?

The ONLY answer possible for us is acceptance. That's what we are asking from our wives/SO. So it's the only thing we could do for her. The fact that it would make many of us uncomfortable (indeed, some said they could not accept it) only illustrates the discomfort that we force our wives/SO to endure everyday.

You can't claim that it's not the same thing. It isn't, of course. But that's not the point. The point is that to many of our wives/SO, it IS a "fetish" or "perversion", and it freaks them out on many levels.

What would the neighbors think? What would our families think? What would my boss think? What would our pastor think? What would I think?!!! These are all issues that our loved ones face every day with our behavior. There is absolutly NO difference between these behaviors in terms of acceptance. Just step back from the emotional content of this issue and try and think about this rationally.

That's all Kewt was trying to ask us to do. You can substitute any out of the ordinary habit here, from infantism to cigar smoking. Do we really know and understand what we are asking of our wives/SO to do when we ask them to accept OUR little "fetish" or "perversion". We may not like those terms to describe our behavior, but to many in the world that's just exactly what are doing.

Just an exercise in empathy.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Jasmine Ellis]

I hope I would be acceting like my wife is with me

[Sarah Bayen]

Totally agree with you Stephenie. It's not the behaviour or the motivation for that behaviour that is always the problem, but the impact it has on your life.

So I say well done Kew for bringing it up.

[DonnaT]

As long as she wasn't embarassed and afraid to go out, I'd have no problem with her being dressed as a baby and wanting to go outside the house.

I might even dress in a little girls party dress and she could be my dolly.

What other people think has never bothered me. They have no say over anything in our lives.

As long as no one is getting hurt, no problem.

[Renee D]

I just wanted to say that my CDing has taught me EXTREME empathy for all different walks of life. Gay, bi, lesbian, goth look on teens, diaper fetish (even though I don't know any), harley riders, whatever whatever whatever....
It really dosen't matter what the unusal activity is.......I certainly notice these different people but none of it really concerns me much.

If I wasn't a cd'er I think I would look at these people with a more critical eye.

Bottom line......If I wasn't a cd'er I would probably treat people with less understanding.

[EricaCD]

Stephenie and others: I understand the point you are trying to make about empathy. I also understand and agree that it misses the point to argue whether infantilism is "worse" or "weirder" than crossdressing, or whether it matters if the underlying need is driven by a sexual urge.

However, I disagree utterly with Kew's implicit, and your explicit, assertion that an unwillingness to accept any peculiarity or fetish in our spouse is somehow hypocritical or betrays a fundamental lack of empathy.

Having exposed my wife to the profound shock of my crossdressing, I would be obligated to go out of my way - indeed WELL out of my way - to come to understanding of a similar fetish/passion/secret/whatever of hers. But I cannot slavishly promise an unlimited ability to tolerate a fetish on her part. Perhaps infantilism would be where I draw the line; I don't know. On the other hand, there is unquestionably a line somewhere!

Similarly, if my wife - despite her best efforts - was simply unable to accept the fact of my crossdressing, then I am aware that I would either need to abandon CDing or lose her. And I don't accuse any spouse of a lack of empathy if she fails after giving her best shot to accept crossdressing.

Erica

[swiss_susan]

Did any of those who responded actually read the links in the first post?

For many who engage in infantilism, adult babies etc... see to do so for emotional rather than sexual reasons. There are many comforting ideas rooted in our infancy, and is it any more surprising that people might try to express these ideas in such a way as each of us express ourselves in clothing designed for the opposite gender.

Is either any more wierd?

[Wendy me]

it would be ok just as long as i did not have to "CHANGE HER"..................yuck that....

[KewTnCurvy GG]

WOW! Have to get to work, not sure my boss would understand why I stayed to answer replies in my thread. However, sorely disappointed with the responses here!! Now, some of you got it and took it to task. I'm not COMPARING CD'ing to infantalism. I'm simply trying to create a situation that asks you--and I'm assuming for most of you this to be true--step out of your comfort zone and TRULY PUT YOURSELF IN YOUR PARTNER"S SHOES. As I said before, this is an excerise in EMPATHY. To those who took it to task, kudos and thank you. Perhaps you've gained some insights you didn't previously have.
More tonight.....
Kew

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

Dear God people! I honestly meant for this to be something that helped some of you step out of your comfort zones and really look at your behaviors. Simply giving you the chance to wear men's clothing and "pretend to be a man" is not a sufficient stretch. But thinking about being a baby would be for most of you I'd guess. As for how I stand. I like/love CD's/TG's. My last partner was a CD'er and I have a housemate who CD's. I'm single and actually CHOOSE to associate with and date CD'ers/TG'ers. So those of you who think I'm not being genuine or have a different angle, think again.

Contiue grrlz, when I get home I'll expect to see more robust responses.
Kew

[Dixie Darling]

Kew,

Asking CDs a question like this is probably counterproductive.since the CD has his own issues to "bargain with" (i.e. "If you're going to wear diapers, then I should be allowed to wear feminine things"). It also has a lot to do with how accepting the husband might be. My personal viewpoint is that if it's something that she enjoyed doing and it doesn't cause her any physical harm in any way, then let her enjoy herself. Like many CDs, it may not be her desire to do something like this anywhere other than within the confines of her own home and if that's the case it wouldn't become known to anyone they didn't want to know about it. This is applicable to a LOT of crossdressers who have no intentions of stepping out the door when they're dressed, and are perfectly happy to keep their dressing their own private affair.

Dixie -- http://ww.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[Tiffany 1953]

The shock value was not there in my marrage to my wife because I knew enough to tell her up front. I love her and after 20+ years would do almost anything she requested if it pleased her.

The comparison is not quite valid unless you add "would you accompany her to an AB event."

Inside activities and "going out enfem" are also a vastly different step.

The AB may dress and crawl into his or her crib to feel safe and secure just as i am going to slip into my new pink Vanity fair nightgown that wifei bought for me as a present for tileing the dining room.

Empathy for all, may not understand why but live and let live. Tiffany