I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF?

[ToyGirl]

Since i was probably the first person to use the word negative in the thread i will post again. I am a TS and im Single so My opinion on the thread question itself is pointless and with that said i probably should not have posted at all , I felt that comparison was unfair or a misunderstanding of labels (possibly on my behalf) i personally understand it that CD is not a fetish but TV is. I asked why not use F2M to M2F instead. To wich i got no reply from the OP.

Even if i disagreed on the terms of the comparison it was never my intention to turn this into GG vs CD argument.

<3 Nicole

[Jodie_Lynn]

soooooo, we CD's get damned for 'hiding' ourselves from our spouse, but then we are brought to task for not empathizing with our spouses reaction to our revelations.

Can any CD or TG tell me if the reason they concealed was because they wished to cause a problem with their SO, or to prevent one? Or that they came out to their wife without one moments thought to what she might feel?

Can ANY CDer or TG state that they have given no thought to the reactions, feelings and emotional turmoil of their SO? Of how this would affect their relationship?

Of course the GG's on this forum, for the most part, have a positive or at least accepting stance regarding the whole issue, elsewise they wouldn't be here.

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, or just dense, but I cannot help but feel that we are somehow being criticized whatever decision we (as a group) make. It just seems that the whole concept of pushing us out of a comfort zone, and empathizing with our spouse assumes that we ARE in a comfort zone, and that we DON'T consider how our spouse will react.

Perhaps there are a few who have a 'I-don't-care-what-she-thinks-this-is-me" attitude, but from what I've read on these boards, they would be the very small minority.

[Marla S]

One of the points here is to get people to try to understand what a sudden revelation might be like from the other point of view.

I think we all can agree on sudden revelations. If they have a positive content, they are a surprise. If they have a problematic content it causes always a shock.
That's trivial.

And almost no-one wrote about the aspect of that person concealing such a thing from their lover for so long a time. Which - as any reading of the posts will tell you - is problem number one for a lot of the SOs.

I agree, but as you wrote they have good reasons for it.

For me the key question is.

Is CDing or TG a perversion (in the negative meaning of the word) as most SOs might see it (at least at first.), or is it more kind of a lifestyle ?

This question hasn't been answered yet, but the answer is curcial to solve the problem.
Me, and as I read it from most of the members here, see it as a lifestyle. As said, our SOs, at least at first, see it more as a perversion.

That is a bad basis for discussion, understanding, and learning (see this thread). Every attempt of empathy from both sides will fail, if this can't be sorted out.

I am so conservative that I would act different if I am actually a pervert (Am I ?).
Probably my ex would have handled it better if she would have seen it as a kind of a lifstyle.
And if the both of us would have seen it from the same perspective (this way or that way) we pobably would have found together a way to deal with it and maybe still would be a couple.

[~Kitty GG~]

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

For the average woman to find out her husband is a CD is mind blowing.

Now if we just say to a CD... 'what if the situation is reversed?' its not so mindblowing cuz you know and understand the whole CD/gender thing.

So it has to be something that you don't do yourself. Something that's out of your realm of experience and something that you would never in a million years have thought your wife.. the women you thought you KNEW would be doing.

Its easy to have empathy for someone who has a similar need to ours. How about having empathy for and still loving, desiring, and wanting to share your life with someone who's blown your whole image of them out of the water?

And also its not about someone being wacky.. having purple hair does not equate to this.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Maria2004]

How about having empathy for and still loving, desiring, and wanting to share your life with someone who's blown your whole image of them out of the water?

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

That's how I took this excercise, once I realized the diaper wearing thing actually existed, the sheer revulsion I felt was overwhelming, the DB forum, the online diaper store, all looked the same as our forums and TG friendly web sites, which drove home that I'm not any differnt, only in my prefered form of whatever you want to call it now, I no longer care. Then to realize this must have been the way my wife felt. I'm totally crushed and horrified to think I put my wife thru what I felt. I knew it was bad, but had no idea until now how bad it really is. This debate about telling and not telling, lies and feelings of betrayal has become pointless to me. Once this hit me, to see your life wiped away, that's all that was left, the feeling of betrayal after 22 years of marriage. I don't know what I would do. Right now I feel ashamed. My wife will home from work soon, I'm going to discuss this with her tonight. I don't even want to look at a dress right now, I'm just gonna pack all my crap away, I don't even want to see it.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Maria,
I don't want anyone to feel bad but just to feel what their SO's might feel. I think you did get a taste of that in my 'exercise' or whatever you want to call it. However, I hope it doesn't lead you to deny who you are by packing up your stuff. Though I think that the acceptance of oneself waxes and wanes and is a long process.
Hugs
Kew

[AmandaM]

You are so cute!

I still think it's a stretch. I think maybe your premises are wrong, or you have some internal prejudices that make you think this is a valid comparison. I don't understand how you can compare the shock of a woman finding out her husband is a crossdresser to the shock of someone finding out their spouse likes to play baby. To me, they are not the same. I think you are equating clothes and behaviours to someone's internal gender conflicts.

In this sense, I think that you might as well have compared us to people who want be monkeys, or have sex with cars, or a host of other proclivities. In this comparison, you're calling us a proclivity. That, is what is offending some here.

But, it's your comparison, so I'll play. Nope, couldn't accept it. And if my spouse wants to have sex with barnyard animals, can't accept that either.

[Maria2004]

I still think it's a stretch. I think maybe your premises are wrong, or you have some internal prejudices that make you think this is a valid comparison.

I wasn't making "comparisons"

I don't understand how you can compare the shock of a woman finding out her husband is a crossdresser to the shock of someone finding out their spouse likes to play baby.

Shock is shock, regardless of the catalyst. I was "[SIZE=3] empathizing[/SIZE] " with my wife.

To me, they are not the same. I think you are equating clothes and behaviours to someone's internal gender conflicts.

Hmmm talk about "internal predjudices" .

In this sense, I think that you might as well have compared us to people who want be monkeys, or have sex with cars, or a host of other proclivities. In this comparison, you're calling us a proclivity.

Actually I was only refering to myself, but hey, if the show fits......

That, is what is offending some here.

I wonder who those "some" are

[tekla west]

I belive, as indicated clearly in the topic header, that those remarks were directed to Kewt and not you. At her posts, not yours.

[Maria2004]

I belive, as indicated clearly in the topic header, that those remarks were directed to Kewt and not you. At her posts, not yours.

In either case I consider my "perceptions" valid in this "public forum" for the benefit of those who don't PM.

[HaleyPink2000]

One thing that struck home with me. Was a comment made in a book I did read on the subject. About a Women finding out about there Husbands CDing. It was something like " What about the dreams the Wife had when she was 12, of getting married to a certain type man". It did not say Cross Dresser. It said Man. So at that point I did step back and re-evaluate my life with my wife. I thought that over alot!!!! Was I being fair to her, and her dreams being this way? Was I being a little selfish??? So Now I spend time in drab more around her. Rather than dressed. I got married to be married, not to just loose her down the line.

That said though, If she did have a certain fetish thing going on. Like being an adult baby. Would she think the same? Then do the same for me? Dress and act less like a baby around me? I think not. She'd tell me " deal with it"...

[Sarah Bayen]

[QUOTE=~Kitty GG~;526169]

And also its not about someone being wacky.. having purple hair does not equate to this.


No it's not just about being wacky. It's about self exploration and expression, particularlly where these challenge personal and social assumptions of behaviour. It would be great if we could all have equal freedom in these areas rather than allowing greater latitudes of behaviour to some groups than others.

[tekla west]

I think you would find that the groups that have such freedom were not handed their rights on a platter. They did not get them because society was feeling particularly benevolent that day. They got them by fighting for them, organizing for them, getting out in the street and yes, getting in people's faces too.

In many cases people were mocked, scorned, humiliated. In the extreame they were put in jail, beaten, their houses and churches bombed. People died. That is true of African-Americans, and the gay movement also. Its true for unions, for farm-workers, and for women. Ain't no easy walk to freedom as the old spiritual says.

Or, in the case of the counterculture, you can do it by abandoning most of what society was offering in exchange for conformity - by doing without.

Given that, to paraphrase JFK, ask not what your movement can do for you, ask what you can do for your movement. Or as we say in show-biz "What have you done for us lately?"

[Marla S]

Given that, to paraphrase JFK, ask not what your movement can do for you, ask what you can do for your movement. Or as we say in show-biz "What have you done for us lately?"

Wouldn't it be a good idea to clarify first for what kind of movement we get involved with.

Emancipation of feminine traits ? (--> to live openly and free)

Alternative life-style ? (--> to live more in a ghetto-like surroundings and events)

or

Sexual deviation ? (--> better to stay in the closet)


I'd really like to know, before I make a fool of myself if I act based on the wrong assumption.

[Jessica Brekke]

This is an interesting question. And yes, one can make all sorts of arguments that it's not a one to one metaphor, and CDing is more acceptable blah, blah, but that's not really the point, if I'm understanding KewTnCurvy correctly.

I have to admit, my first thought was: "EWWWWWW!" It's a pretty disturbing image. Kind of makes me shudder.

But then thinking about it more, I realized something else. But just like in CDing, infantalism is probably more than 'just clothes' to some people. It's likely a sign of deeper personality issues. Just at a guess, I'd say someone who's trying to get in touch with the part of themselves that is utterly selfish, needy, and helpless. If I'm right about that, and 'diapering' (my own term, but seems to fit) was my partner's way of expressing those feelings -- as CDing is, in my case -- and if it actually allowed her to function as the responsible, mature, and sympathetic human being that I love on a day to day basis... then I'd learn to cope.

In the end, I don't think I could participate in it. After two kids, and five straight years of changing diapers between the two of them, I don't think I could ever find anything remotely sexual about it. But if that's what my wife needed to do, on her own? Then, I think, over time, I could be supportive of her needs, and love her, in spite of it.

[~Kitty GG~]

Right now I feel ashamed. My wife will home from work soon, I'm going to discuss this with her tonight. I don't even want to look at a dress right now, I'm just gonna pack all my crap away, I don't even want to see it.

oh please don't feel ashamed. you are who you are and there's nothing wrong with that.

I saw this thread as an exercise in empathy.. to see how shocking, confronting, and scarey it can be to learn things about a spouse late in the game.

I find it interesting that so many are horrified at being compared like this. why is it so disgusting? and if someone feels so disgusted by it why can't they understand that cding would horrify others?

the baby scene isn't hurting anyone. it does equate in many ways with cding. and its a rather common thing statistically. so why is so repulsive?

If that was the case in our life I'd have had to look into it the same way I did with the cding and the ts issues. figure out if this was something that fit in my life. and figure out what priority my spouse was to me. But I do think that it would have been about the same as far as shock and as to how it made me re-evaluate the person. often they compare a spouse finding out about cding to grieving over the loss of the person they married. so its not just some minor thing like a hairstyle change or choosing a different but still socially acceptable style of dress.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[Marla S]

I find it interesting that so many are horrified at being compared like this. why is it so disgusting? and if someone feels so disgusted by it why can't they understand that cding would horrify others?

From my point of view it's not being horrified by infantilism, I am horrified 'cause I think the initial question is based on the wrong assumption.

In the somewhat same light I see the "horrified" reaction by GGs on the classical phrase for a CDs apology: "Women in pants are crossdressing". This phrase also is based on a wrong assumption but it obviously is something to fear. Why ?

[Shelly Preston]

From my point of view it's not being horrified by infantilism, I am horrified 'cause I think the initial question is based on the wrong assumption.

In the somewhat same light I see the "horrified" reaction by GGs on the classical phrase for a CDs apology: "Women in pants are crossdressing". This phrase also is based on a wrong assumption but it obviously is something to fear. Why ?

The initial question is designed to make you think about the emotions you would go through, if presented by a similar set of circumstances, to that which Wives/ SO's go through when told they are partnered to a crossdresser.

Infantilism is only an example of what it could be.

[sparks]

Just a question!
Do I have to Change HER?

A good thread and to lengthy for me to now read all responses. But Yes I told my wife afew years into marriage. And I wish I never had.

If she she came to me and said let's play! I will be Baby and you can be Mommy. HMMM

But yes I would be feeling much of the same things that my thought about me and still thinks about me. What else is hiding in there. Will this be a permanent thing. Just a fetish or lifestyle? The list goes on and on.

Would I stay, Would I still love her and accept. Most likely. If anything I would attempt to understand.

[Diane Paris]

I can not imagine my wife ever wanting to do this adult baby scene, but that is not the question we were asked to discuss.

To answer as directly as I can, if I came home to hear my wife confess that she likes to wear diapers and sometimes act like a baby, I would...

How would I feel? I would feel shocked at first because we have been married a long time and I am just now learning about this very important part of her make up. I would feel somewhat confused and maybe hurt that she waited until now to tell me about something so important to her. I would feel anger.

How might I react? I would keep my mouth shut and listen, for hours, days, weeks or as long as necessary to understand. I would only ask questions for clarification at first. I would want to fully understand why she likes this, what need is being met by doing this, and what she is seeking in dressing and acting like a baby. (i.e. does she want to be a baby all the time or just on occasion, does she want to wear diapers to bed? Is there an erotic component to this? etc. )

Would I truly be able to accept her? Oh yes, no question about accepting her. That is not even a passing thought. She has set the ultimate example for me to follow in that she totally accepts me with my strong need to look, feel, and act feminine on occasion. How could I possibly consider not giving her that same love and devotion in return. There is no reason other than adultry that I would ever not continue to love and accept her as she is, with or without her diapers.

Would Ithink it weird? Would it repulse me? Yes, I would think it was weird, initially. I thought it was weird when I read about it in this post. But on further examinination and after reading about AB, DL, and the various needs of people in to this scene, I would likely stop thinking that it is weird once I understook fully what is means to my wife.

The word "weird" is an unkind word for "can't relate" in my view. I just have difficulty thinking that anything that is part of my wife or anything that she needs can be weird. I have to much love and devotion for her to think that way. My goal would be to understand, to try to relate to her as much as possible, and give her the love, attention, and acceptance that she deserves from the one who loves and accepts her most....as she is...with her need for diapers and somethings to act like a baby.

[ChristineRenee]

I'd be SHOCKED. But only because my wife is a pretty straight-laced, and normal (by society's standards) woman. I would definitely try to understand her reasons for doing it though, as she always has with mine. And if I had a proclivity for that type of adventurism...I most likely would join in on it with her...but certainly NOT because I am WEIRD or anything like that you must understand.

[NighttimeGirl]

Yes, I'm aware of that Tiffany. Again, this is an exercise in EMPATHY for those who are willing to participate. I thought perhaps some CD's may get a sense of what their partners might go through upon discovering their CD partner's CD'ing.
Kew

How can you empathise with someone who wants to wear nappies when you dont wear nappies yourself, the whole thing about empathy is putting yourself in that position, i can't do that when it hasnt happened, if my girlfriend told me she was a crossdresser i could empathise as i am, this whole stanislavski s**te is too much, yeah if my g/f wanted to wear a nappie and go out to do the garden she could, so what! who gives a s**t what anyone else thinks, she accepts me I accept her,

this thread seems to me is just like saying ok you wear womens clothes step outside yourself and say what would you do if you came home and found your other half in bed with a rattle snake??? or some other lewd act, there are ppl with a fetish for watching another have a dump on a glass table and all that, there are ppl out there who get off on allsorts, why did you give an excercise in EMPATHY regarding babys nappies, surely it would have been more suited to say what you say if you came home and your other half told you she likes to flatten her chest and wear a beard and dress like a man of a night time, I could show all the EMPATHY in the world for that one, why? cause I am in that position reversed.
seems to me the nappie thing was purely for shock value and it is a difficult one for anyone to answer not just a cd.
pointless really,

sorry but that was my tuppence.

[~Kitty GG~]

How can you empathise with someone who wants to wear nappies when you dont wear nappies yourselfall

that's what it means to empathize..

Empathy: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for empathy

Its not about sharing the actual experience. Its about putting yourself in the others shoes.

The secret need/behaviour could be anything. But for this exercise its important that its NOT cross dressing because the members of this forum are too familiar with cross dressing and therefore don't require empathy to relate to it.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

[NighttimeGirl]

an emotional feeling of identification (EMPATHY)


I still can't identify with it,

Im sorry but i know what it means ~

[Tamara Croft]

Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable!!!! How can you not empathise with those different to you?? You may find the comparison repulsive, but there are those who find crossdressing repulsive, freaky, weird etc.... You are missing the whole point of Kews post We have a member on this board who is an adult baby, I'm sure she will be so glad to have read what you think about her in this thread.