I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF?

[Julogden]

Hi Kew,

An interesting question, and not easy to answer, as actually being in that situation is probably a lot different than sitting here pecking away at the keys while trying to imagine what it would be like.

What follows is strictly my opinion/s.

That said, if that was the only thing "wrong" with a spouse that I loved, I'd like to think I'd do my best to accept her and help her with her infantilism. If she needed to do that in public, I would probably do my best to dissuade her. If someone outside the relationship found out and had a problem with it, I'd back her up 100%. I don't have to understand her reasons for doing it, but if I love her, I'll help her do it to the best of my abilities and still love her.

However, this feels to me as if you're equating a theoretical infantile wife with "normal" wives trying to accept, or at least tolerate, a CD'ing husband. That is not quite the same thing, IMO, especially if the TG husband is dressing due to a feminine gender identity, but I can see why some wives who don't really understand TG issues might think it's essentially the same thing. Fetishistic CD'ing might be a bit closer to infantilism in they are both paraphilias. Of course, accepting it may not be any easier though.

Regardless, they are both basically harmless behaviors, as long as balance is maintained and the needs of both partners are taken care of.

OK, up on my soap box now, off on a sort of related tangent.

In my opinion, anyone who has gender identity issues should explore those issues, be honest with themselves and figure out who they are as early in life as they possibly can, before getting into a serious relationship with anyone. And a full honest disclosure early on in any relationship is a must too. It's the only fair thing for both parties.

I think I sort of gave an answer to your question somewhere in there. Thanks for the mental exercise!

Carol

[fionasboots]

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

Because the obvious, and honest answer every CDer would give if they found out their SO was cross dressing is "I'd be fine with it".

It is totally impossible for someone who does cross dress, and who has come to terms with that idea in their own mind, to answer any other way.

Once you have come to terms with the concept of "I simply like/enjoy wearing clothes of the opposite sex" and build up all the usual valid arguments like "it's just clothes" then it can be hard to fully appreciate what a shock it is to a partner - I know, I'm going through this now.

There are lots of other things, fetishes or otherwise, that you could start this thread with but I would guess that they maybe easier to accept, e.g. if you wear a basque and stockings having the former made of PVC/rubber probably isn't a huge leap so probably acceptable.

Going for something rather more out of 'normality' is just to show how extreme a reaction an SO can have. And again, trust me, I am on the receiving end of such a reaction at the moment.

Anyway, it's just worth bearing in mind how the other person can feel - everyone has a limit to their acceptance, try to understand this if/when you come out to an SO.

[Anima-87-388]

but the first post in this thread did strike me as containing somewhat of a "well how would you feel" anger to it. I'm sure that is not the tone she wished to express, but that is, I think, how many received it.

Yes, this is all I was getting at. It sometimes also just seems to be assumed in threads like these that a CD has NO IDEA how it feels to be in the other person's shoes even though I imagine most of us would feel the same way in situations like these, this is what I find negative.

I here this issue a LOT! Why can't we be accepted? Why can't my wife understand (fill in the blank). Why can she where boiz clothes and it's not okay for me? WHy WHY WHY!? So, it seemed trying to approach this from an angle that could truly get ppl to think, might help.

The problem is these people just don't understand that any relationship is a two way street etc. A mature CD can answer all of the above and the above example could be applied to people with any fetish or abnormal behavior who just can't figure out why they aren't accepted even though they find their behavior harmless.

I'm single but if I was in a relationship with someone who revealed herself to be an AB only after a long amount of time, I would react as most GG's do when their SO tells them they are a CD , I just thought people already knew that...then again I also thought people knew that when a woman wears pants it really isn't the same as crossdressing

[KewTnCurvy GG]

My thoughtful thread gets two stars, hmmmmm.

Let's see what does get 5 stars here:

Listed by thread title
Desirable image

Girls have more fun? ( 1 2)

You know you're married to a crossdresser if.....

Breastform Adhesive!! ( 1 2)

I was only trying to be helpful for the few who might have felt they benefited from such an exercise.

Now, let me ask my critics; why would you bite one of the hands that feed you?

Curious!
Kew

[tekla west]

Well, if you save up the stars you can get a great set of steak knifes!

And I would never bite the hand that feeds me without deep frying it first in a delicious batter with a little ketsup on the side. And I hear that the Napa Wine Company's, 2005 Sauvignon Blanc is great with 'the hand that feeds you' too.

Yum.

[ashlee chiffon]

you mean you wouldn't like me if i wore diapers? even if they were nylon diapers? Under a satiny blue dress with full petticoats?
*just kidding!*

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Well, if you save up the stars you can get a great set of steak knifes!

And I would never bite the hand that feeds me without deep frying it first in a delicious batter with a little ketsup on the side. And I hear that the Napa Wine Company's, 2005 Sauvignon Blanc is great with 'the hand that feeds you' too.

Yum.

he he
Love your sense of humor! FUN!
Kew

[Jodie_Lynn]

what are these "stars" you speak of?

Did I miss another memo?

And, just for the record Kew, I AM enjoying this discussion. But, the only comfort zone you got me out of, is the one where I feel I'm imposing on my wifes good nature. Now I'll be fretting even more....

I'm just a wee neurotic about that..........

[HaleyPink2000]

Hun, one thing. I'm already to those years that the Wife wears adult diapers when we go some places. Thats old age. LOL

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Hun, one thing. I'm already to those years that the Wife wears adult diapers when we go some places. Thats old age. LOL

I'm not talking that kind of wearing diapers and I'm sorry to hear that Haley. Hugs,
Kew

[KewTnCurvy GG]

what are these "stars" you speak of?

Did I miss another memo?

And, just for the record Kew, I AM enjoying this discussion. But, the only comfort zone you got me out of, is the one where I feel I'm imposing on my wifes good nature. Now I'll be fretting even more....

I'm just a wee neurotic about that..........

Awwww, truly not trying to make anyone feel bad, just to think.
Hugs grrl,
Kew

[KewTnCurvy GG]

you mean you wouldn't like me if i wore diapers? even if they were nylon diapers? Under a satiny blue dress with full petticoats?
*just kidding!*

Only if they have pink flowers too!

And, where's my coffee?!
Kew

[Jodie_Lynn]

Lack of thinking is NOT one of my (many) problems

I think I think too much. I think.

[Amanduhrob]

I've been following this thread for a bit, and here's my pov.

I live with a bisexual Domme F/F couple, and unfortunately, I have more skirts, and heels than the both of them. Not much surprises me in our relationship, and if one wanted to wear diapers, and act as a child, she would be accepted here, thou it does nothing for me personally. I've come to the point in my life where I've realized that you have a short time on this Earth, so you should enjoy it to the fullest extent.

If your needs aren't harmful to others, by all means enjoy yourself, and if you are fortunate enough to find a S/O who accepts you for who you are, and you accept them for who they are, you are one of the blessed few.

[Tiffany 1953]

Amanda,

AB's "crossdress" in their own way. They cross from adult apparel to infant apparel. When in the infant apparel, ABs assume the mannerisms of an infant, just as genetic males assume mannerisms of a female when wearing feminine attire.

Yes and don't forget some males dress as girls and some as boys. the same is true for the girls. And KEW, as a Licensed ... you know the ANR group would not mind the coment on your earlier post.

[Mistress_Thorny]

I really don' know how to respond to this thread. I knew about rosie's dressing before we became a couple and so I made my decision to enter into the relationship with full knowledge.

I don't hink I would like any secret in our relationship that would make me feel excluded in a huge part of his life but then again how does it hurt me?

People are going to come out in their own way and in their own time. I can well understand the fear of rejection as well as the lose of life as they know it by coming out. The reaction of others could well change their life forever.

I would say if in doubt do not share it. But also that I hope that they one day would because I believe it frees a Man to be able to share it with one he loves.

peace

[Tiffany 1953]

Vanya,

My wife today is not the person I married 20 years ago. She never told me about her food fetish, but a few months before our wedding, she threatened to call off the wedding if I ever came between her and her food. Since then she has gained 100 pounds and outweighs me by 90 pounds (during the same time I gained 25 pounds).

But I will not leave her. It took me 15 years of dating and asking out over 60 women and going out with over 30, before I found her. God meant for me to marry her. I am terrified she will become bed ridden and I will have to take care of her, and I do not know if I will be able to do it.

So whats a little crossdressing?

Dee

You most probably will take care of her. My wedding vows meant something to me and after my wifes 2 CHF's I have done many things for her that are outside the normal. Careing for ones liftime partner is easy once you have to do it. it is the thinking about "Waht if" that is the hardest part. Hugs Tiffany

[HaleyPink2000]

LOL sorry Kew. LOLOL

Yeah I knew what you were saying.

Ok, to the subject. Nahh, It would not bother me much. I'd get used to it, as I have all the other things our life together has thrown at us. Lets say if she had that as a fetish. It would be at least something to level the playing field around here.

Lets see, diaper changing, I'd have a little problem with that some. I’d kind of like the powdering her bottom though. But I might be doing that someday anyway when we get older. LOL

Lets see the sucking on a pacifier. Hmmm. Nahh, they do that now as those are the rage here for candy. You see even adults running around with those little candy ones. It's no worse than cigarettes to look at. But I'd much rather the people next to me be sucking on pacifiers than cigarettes. The smoke from cigarettes I can’t take.

Her wearing baby dolls most of the time, Hmmm? Lets see, would I like that? Yeah, that would be really cute. Baby strollers would not apply though. They have those real cool electric mobility chairs in the malls.

She already wears bonnets around the farm, doing work in the sun. Also to re-enactments that we go play music at. So a baby doll hat or bonnet would not be a bother to me either.

Lets see, tantrums and misbehaving. Now that happens raising a child. If she wants to throw a tantrum, I am not the one that’s going to stop her now. She is stronger than I am. I'd have to call her brother over. LOLOL

Sorry, just a light attemp at some humor!

[Marla GG]

You know, I rarely get involved in contentious threads like this, but I really have to say something here.

Those of you who are pointing out that crossdressing and infantalism are not the same thing, are completely missing the point. Of course they are not the same. That's why adult babies have their own discussion forums and we have ours. But are the two things equivalent for the hypothetical exercise that Kew proposed? Yes, absolutely. Because this exercise was not about how you, as a CD/TG individual, view yourself. Whatever your angle is, whether crossdressing is about fetishism or identity or clothing rights for you, that is not what Kew's question was about. It was about getting you to consider how your wife or girlfriend, someone with no prior understanding of crossdressing, might feel upon learning that her genetic male partner likes to (or needs to) wear women's clothing.

I can see why the comparison made you uncomfortable. It is because you think that an adult dressing and acting like an infant is disgusting, silly, sick, shameful, wrong, and perverted, whereas what you do is none of those things. And incidentally, I happen to feel that crossdressing can be anything from a harmless kink or "hobby" to a beautiful expression of your gender-giftedness and a way of displaying on the outside who you are on the inside. It is certainly never, ever, something to be ashamed of. But again, that is not the point.

To be blunt, the point is that regardless of how positively you view yourself, for your wife or girlfriend who encounters this side of you for the first time, the level of shock and discomfort IS similar to finding out that your partner is a closeted adult baby. I know that this isn't a nice thing to think about, particularly since many of you are still struggling with your own lifelong guilt issues, and you don't come to this forum to feel worse about yourself. I am sorry that the subject came up, but here we are, so we may as well deal with it.

I have been involved in this community for a long time and have gotten to know many partners of crossdressers and trans gals, and believe me, when they first learn that their man sometimes likes to dress as a woman, most of them do not think "Oh, no big deal, that's the same as me wearing pants." Some are super-cool with it, especially if they are comfortable with alternative lifestyles or have known TG folks before, but your average woman is initially going to find the idea just as odd, alien, scary, and revolting as the idea of adults wearing diapers and drinking from bottles. No wonder we freak out when you tell us! That is why it takes a lot of education, a lot of communication, and a lot of work-- not to mention a lot of love -- for SOs to get to place of acceptance. The good news is that it can, and does, happen.

So to reiterate: no one is calling you a fetishist or putting you on the same "level" with infantalists, okay? All Kew was doing was trying to get you to see that for your partner, your crossdressing might be just as difficult to accept as it would be for you to accept her need to role-play at being a baby, if the shoe was on the other foot. Is that so hard to understand?

Love,
Marla xx

[Kimberly]

To be flippant: Hey, I'd join her!!

They really ought to try and finish the list of sexual deviance I seem to have...

*Looks around*

So I guess I'm one of a minority here... kk - I'll just go and crawl back into my batcave.


EDIT: And can people stop bashing infantalism? It's a valid alternative lifestyle choice - just as you have yours. Honestly -- stop the bitchy-ness and start the empathy. xx

[HaleyPink2000]

Oh, and to be real serious!

We had our Uncle live with us till just before he died. He was an elderly man in his 80’s. We did everything for him from changing the bed covers to getting him in and out of the tub. Helping and even changing his adult diapers etc. Feeding him when needed also. Finally for medical reasons we could not do it anymore.

I could do no less for my own wife.

Haley

[Maria2004]

I didn't notice the links when I 1st saw it. I thought the concept was purely hypothetical on your part until I realized from other replies that this was real. I couldn't believe people did this, I went to the links, while I reading them I felt ill, I forced myself to continue reading, my mind felt like it was disassociating with realty. I knew my wife "felt". Now I know "how" it felt.
I'm crying.

[kathy gg]

Kew I think your thread was a really great idea....sadly alot of cd's are not ready for an excercise like this. Out of their comfort zone?....you bet. Empathy a hard pill to swallow? Absolutely!!

Marla thanks for clarifying what seemd to me a very simple idea, but seemd to have morphed into something it was never intended to be.

Again...gee, I hate that I have to keep repeating myself on this forum....second time this week I have had to defend a gg being 'into' cd's.....

But most gg's who are on this forum enjoy this aspect of their partner. Most of us dig it and find being with a tg partner to be fullfilling.

As I have stated many times past, gg's who hate crossdressing and hate cd's and want to change cd's...dont' come to places like this or if they do come here - post a few hate filled threads- and then leave.

long time gg posters and members are here to help those who are struggeling and are finding problems upon disclosure.

Since comparing cd's to other things is rather difficult, Kew used an example which I thought illustrated a very good point.

She did not do this to make others feel bad, or o make one feel even more guilt, but to give an insight into how a woman finding out *might* feel.

The more tools given which show cd's how it feels for a wife...isn't that better to see a different view point?

For those *thinking* about coming out or in the process of coming out need all the tools to help them see how/why their wife is feeling negativity.

It is not a black and white issue, Kew used an example of something most people on here admitted to finding uncomfortable or woudl have no turn on for. That might give a clue as to how one's wife feels uncomfortable with cding.

And to thsoe doubting her authenticity, sorry numbers don't lie, and we have a pretty good gg population in here which like or looked to date a cd. When are the doubters going to start believing that we are real, we are here to help and we are not here to make anyone feel bad?

If one cannot at least listen to us gg's which are *pro-crossdressing* with an open mind....god help those of you who have to deal with gg's {or the general public} who are *anti-cding*.....

[Marla S]

Sorry, I have to rant a bit.

Those of you who are pointing out that crossdressing and infantalism are not the same thing, are completely missing the point. Of course they are not the same. That's why adult babies have their own discussion forums and we have ours. But are the two things equivalent for the hypothetical exercise that Kew proposed? Yes, absolutely. [..]
It was about getting you to consider how your wife or girlfriend, someone with no prior understanding of crossdressing, might feel upon learning that her genetic male partner likes to (or needs to) wear women's clothing.

If this is the point: Generaly speaking, how does one feel to be confronted with something that is out of the norms, we don't have to discuss about infantilism. There are far more "every day" examples, that cover the acceptance problem and the how to deal with it far better IMO as CDing is nothing special in this sense.

How about:

Being married to someone of a different ethnics (Blacks still have problems in the USA and Europe and sometimes it really causes trouble with the family).

Being married to someone of a different religion (has been a huge problem in the past and still is in some areas.)

Being married to someone with heavy overweight (those people got moked once in a while)

Having a handicapted baby (parents have to face a lot of "public trouble". Especially some fathers just run away cause they can stand it or feel hemmed.)

Being hadicapped oneself ( Resentments, stares, mocking etc.)

etc.

So what we are talking about ?

Some deviation from norms or a sexual ("embarassing") deviation ?

To be blunt, the point is that regardless of how positively you view yourself, for your wife or girlfriend who encounters this side of you for the first time, the level of shock and discomfort IS similar to finding out that your partner is a closeted adult baby. I know that this isn't a nice thing to think about, particularly since many of you are still struggling with your own lifelong guilt issues, and you don't come to this forum to feel worse about yourself. I am sorry that the subject came up, but here we are, so we may as well deal with it.

Of course it is troublesome and even a shock for our SOs. I think every single CDer is somehow aware of it. Otherwise we wouldn't have been in the closet for most of our life, trying to hide it from our parents, family , SO, children.
I admit though, that an egocentric behavior easily can develop when you have the fear of being rejected, being a failure and you have to deal with this alone.

Some are super-cool with it, especially if they are comfortable with alternative lifestyles or have known TG folks before, but your average woman is initially going to find the idea just as odd, alien, scary, and revolting as the idea of adults wearing diapers and drinking from bottles. No wonder we freak out when you tell us!

I absolutaly agree, but than we discuss about sexual deviations (perversions in the eye of the SO) and it is legtime to see if TG and infantilism are comparable or not.

That is why it takes a lot of education, a lot of communication, and a lot of work -- not to mention a lot of love --

This is the way to go.

... for SOs to get to place of acceptance.

I'd rather be respected for what I am.

[tekla west]

I have often observed that one of the reasons that people don't like to think outside of themselves is that such exercises tend to show the true colors of a person much better because they are not being allowed to just keep up with their tried and true act. It forces them to step away from the carefully constructed public persona and show the real person underneath. People hate that.

One of the points here is to get people to try to understand what a sudden revelation might be like from the other point of view. And almost no-one wrote about the aspect of that person concealing such a thing from their lover for so long a time. Which - as any reading of the posts will tell you - is problem number one for a lot of the SOs. That they have been put in this position unwillingly. Tragically I think that many of those SO MIGHT have gone along with it, had they known from the get-go, if they had in the worlds of the law, "Informed Choice." They are now stuck with no choice, and rather than being informed, they were in fact deliberately kept in the dark and lied to. Small wonder that upon hearing this revelation their first reaction is "I'm outa here."

I think that if they had been given the opportunity to ease into it, to play their way into it, to gradually embrace it many would. But, now it comes full weight out of nowhere, like Athena springing from the head of Zeus. And that is hard to handle.

But I think underneath that, and designed into the original proposition was another issue, which was how many people would be, in the worlds - or letters - of Dan Savage, GGG. Good, Giving, and Game. How far would you go to indulge your partner with something that did not necessarily turn you on - or perhaps, went so far as to turn you off? Could you get over yourself long enough to indulge someone you loved? Because if we want partners that are GGG, should we not be the same in return? As it turn out, a whole lot of people who EXPECT the other to be GGG are themselves NNN. (Nohow, Noway, Not Ever!) Thought that hardly surprises me, it does sadden me. In the words of Nat Henthoff, its all about "Freedom for me but not for thee." Such sentiments are sad no matter where they are encountered.