I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF?

[Jenna1561]

Kew,

I believe that I get your point - empathy. How would I deal with a revelation from my SO that she had been hiding something from me for many years and that this something was generally regarded as strange and socially unacceptable?

Being a CD/TG I think my empathy for similar situations would be extremely high. I believe I could understand her reluctance to tell me about it and could forgive the deceipt. I believe that I would participate with her in open dialogue on the subject, but upon reflection would probably have some difficulty participating in the activity.

How would I react if she came home from work each day and immediately showered and changed into a diaper and wanted me to feed her a bottle? Probably not well and I would definitely want to put limits on her activity, or at the very least my participation. I definitely would not want our children to know. Would her activities preclude her from completing her responsibilities? Or would she be able to complete them while diapered?

Would I attend a gathering/convention of like-minded individuals? If there was a support group for SO's - definitely. Would I be willing to buy gifts for her to support this activity - I think so. Would I photograph her activities, probably, though I might feel uncomfortable. Would I be willing to take her out in public as "my baby" - NO.

As a side note, I'd like to say that while I have been crossdressing since about 9 or 10, I have also held many conservative views about alternative lifestyles. Since becoming more aware of myself and more accepting of my crossdressing, my views have changed. Where once I might have been considered homphobic, over the years my views have shifted and I am now more accepting. I believe this is directly related to accepting myself and my lifestyle and recognizing the rights of others to pursue their own individuality. The separation of alternative lifestyles from the stereotypical perversions and criminal activities associated with them is the key to acceptance.

In conclusion, I am more aware and tolerant of others' lifestyles and activities because of my crossdressing and my desires to be accepted. While I would most likely be uncomfortable with many aspects of other unusual activities, I believe that I am open to research and discussion on the topic(s). Also, I can understand the reluctance and repulsion some may feel toward such activities such as crossdressing. Walking a mile in someone else's shoes is always an enlightening experience, whether it is alternative lifestyles, medical conditions or physical handicaps.

In my own case, I recently (July 4th) came out to my wife after 20 years of marriage and she is having great difficulty coming to terms with it. I put myself in her place and think that I can somewhat understand what she is experiencing, but not fully.


Jenna

[bgirl]

Dear God people! I honestly meant for this to be something that helped some of you step out of your comfort zones and really look at your behaviors. Simply giving you the chance to wear men's clothing and "pretend to be a man" is not a sufficient stretch. But thinking about being a baby would be for most of you I'd guess. As for how I stand. I like/love CD's/TG's. My last partner was a CD'er and I have a housemate who CD's. I'm single and actually CHOOSE to associate with and date CD'ers/TG'ers. So those of you who think I'm not being genuine or have a different angle, think again.

Contiue grrlz, when I get home I'll expect to see more robust responses.
Kew

You succeded in moving me out of my comfort zone if that was your intention. In fact as much as I would rather think of other things, this thread bothered me all thru my morning routine. And still does. I will grant that there is a point to having empathy and tolereance and acceptance.
What troubles me is your method. I think many of us are pushed out of comfort zone just coming to terms with CDing. In fact many of us come here for that purpose. I,m not sure you've noticed. Tolerance and empathy and acceptance will come from applying those things to ourselves and to others.
Your analogy is unnecessary. Try this,
What if you found out your SO was a _________ ! How would you feel?
Fill in the blank to your hearts content.

[GG Vanya]

According to quite a large number of discussions here, X-dressing is pretty much separated from a sexual fantazy for many x-dressers, so the comparison with "playing baby" which is a sexual fantazy, is not valid, I think. Unless, one is into some kind of exhuberant fetishist transvestism, which would become a major sexual fantazy for which your comparison to wearing baby diapers would hold.

The main difference with a sexual fantazy is that being dressed as a woman, just makes the x-dresser look like an ordinary woman, providing "she" is sufficiently skilled at finding proper clothes and correct makeup style.
For x-dressers who tend to dress like ordinary women, they would go unnoticed in the crowd. While an adult (any gender) wearing diapers and baby clothes would certainly not go unnoticed in any crowd.

However, I get your point. What would be our reaction if our SO came out to us with a very different life style, as different from the female "norm" as our X-dressing "en femme" is from the male "norm"? I don't have a proper example of such a "change", but that would make me think a lot.

Actually, the closest comparison would be if my SO would tell me that all these years she was a FtM X-dresser and didn't dare to tell me. But even then, for this comparison to be valid, I would have not to be myself a MtF X-dresser otherwise I would be biased in my judgement.

So on the principle, I agree with your questionning: We, as X-dressers should try more often to put ourselves into our SO's shoes... But I don't think the comparison with wearoing baby diapers works.


Eugenie

You couldn't be more incorrect in this assumption. Infantilism or AB's seldom include sex in their dressing. Think about it, babies do NOT engage in sex so this would totally invalidate WIITTD. I know quite a few AB's and for them, it's an escape into innocence, an opportunity to be nurtured instead of being the nurturer.

[tekla west]

I had held off on this, but now that I find myself agreeing with Vanya I guess I should sit down and think this through. Anyway she is spot-on. AB is NOT about sex at all, neither is LG.

Thanks for making that clear and accurate point Vanya.

So, here goes.

Well I guess I might be in a unique position to answer this, at least in some ways. First off I have to confess I have a pacifier - not out of infantilism but a souvenir of my past rave events. (Google rave+pacifier if you don't know cause I'm not going to tell you & I think its against the rules to discuss that here anyway.)

But beyond that I got involved with some very special people who run some very special parties here. Not only was i able to use a full range of my skills, and get paid while working in drag - girl has to make her own money ya know, keeps her honest - but I can dress in my best Catholic SchoolGirl in Disgrace outfits and still be far and away the most NORMAL person in there. So I do have some experience in associating with people of differing proclivities shall we say.

The AB crowd is kind of silly, but harmless. (Much like the furry/plush people) Given the range of activities I've been witness to it seems to be on the milder end of the spectrum, and in its own way is indeed very close to what we do - so it was a bit of brilliance to use it here. Unlike the S/M deal, and like CD, it does not necessarily require another person to participate. Lonely is the S w/o the M, and vice-versa.

This is, and I think part of the reason Kute chose it is part of the turn off for so many GGs, because its not like we need them in on this. They don't HAVE to, and few things can get you on the wrong side of a girl as fast as making her an unnecessary luxury and not a requirement. An AB can dress up, suck that pacifier or bottle and watch TeleTubbies all they want, they do not strictly NEED anyone else to participate. And I would imagine that there are far more (percentage wise) ABs in a closet by themselves then CDs - for obvious reasons.

So, would I be GGG (good giving and game) in this situation? Perhaps, the thought does not turn me on, however if she turned me on, and it turned her on ... well, I always say I would try anything once, and twice if I like it. So I could I think put up with it, under the same circumstances that many of the wives put on it. Around the house would be fine, and I guess I could even attend an event or two from time to time, possibly going so far as to be a LG for her at such events, but I would not be a caregiver/mommy - i.e. not active participation in all aspects of it, assuming of course that they wanted ALL aspects of it.

So, to the degree that it was her deal, and all I had to do was "put up with it" - show tolerance - I most likely could handle it. Its not like something like a humiliation trip where I would be put in the position of doing something I feel morally opposed to i.e. humiliating and degrading another human being.

That being said, I have found myself at some of these parties participating in scenes (as the lingo would have it) that I never would have imagined myself ever being a part of - and in some cases, (such is the poverty of my imagination) that I never even imagined occurred. Some were like teenage fantasies come true, far beyond what I ever thought might happen to me, others that would be harder to convinced me to play along with a second time.

The problem here, and one similar to the GGs, is "How come you did not tell me before." To a degree, if the relationship had been going on for a long time I would feel trapped - or tricked at the least - by the RECENT admission. My current GF met me on a board like this, so all the CD stuff was up front to begin with, matter of fact it was the first thing she knew about me. She has no problem with it, but it does nothing sexual for her either. If I want to do that, I put on a suit and tie, or the macho work clothes, jeans, cut sleeve tight shirts, work-boots (hey, we all have our own kinks I guess) and I indulge her on a regular basis.

[Eugenie]

You couldn't be more incorrect in this assumption. Infantilism or AB's seldom include sex in their dressing. Think about it, babies do NOT engage in sex so this would totally invalidate WIITTD. I know quite a few AB's and for them, it's an escape into innocence, an opportunity to be nurtured instead of being the nurturer.

OK I stand corrected for this wrong assumption about infantilism (note, even though this is out of the subject, that babies do have sexual experiences, albeit uncontrolled, but they exist). I admit that my knowledge about the subject of infantilism is rather limited...

My point about the question was that, yes I have empathy for it and accept the fact that we should be more conscious about the feelings of our SOs. I just felt that the comparison with infantilism didn't hold. But I may be wrong here too...

Eugenie

[Anima-87-388]

I agree there is alot of negativity in this thread. I feel like this thread is putting down a lot of people.

The CDs that think they are entitled to instant acceptance by their SO's (who still may not even know about their CDing) are living in a fantasy.

I'd like to think most CDs are above that. Most CDs are mature enough know they are asking for alot when they ask for acceptance.

The ones that come online and post something like "WHY CAN"T EVERYBODY ACCEPT ME!!!??? IT"S JUST CLOTHES!!!!" are just beginning to come to terms with their CDing and may not yet realize how it could impact their lives, they just think no one could possibly care about them.

Mature CDs are an empathetic bunch, many are FULLY CAPABLE of seeing the shoe on the other foot, many more suffer from guilt over it.

I feel the response you'd like to hear is OMG, if my SO came over and told me she had secretly been into Infantalism all her life and expected me to be a part of it, I'd give her the boot.....WAIT....OMG....that's like what I did to her!....WOW, I'm a freak AND now a hypocritical being, It's great that my SO is disgusted by me, I should be more like her!

Not all CDs are mature , and not all partners (even the most willing) are able to deal with their SO as a CD or even a TG, get over it.

P.S. You don't EXERCISE empathy. That sounds downright insulting, it's like "Here, let me help you grow a heart you filthy heartless beast". Now I know that isn't what you meant but with the vindictive tone of this thread that's how I took it.

[tekla west]

I did not see (or read) anything negative in the question. Matter of fact I thought the comparison was about as good as you could get, and she even gave links so that we could be 100% sure about exactly what she was pointing to.

That being said, I found out in a past career that few things in life are more ill-thought of, more degraded, less welcome and more thankless than attempting to make people think, particularly when you try to get them to think outside of themselves.

And I know its not just me. In the past few years I have seen many of my old friends leave the academy one by one, all for the same basic reason. And people wonder why, with a doctorate I build stages, set up sound systems, and rig light shows. Yeesh.

[GG Vanya]

I've yet to understand where anyone is seeing negativity here on Kew's part.

I think the AB scenario is perfect for comparison. I think the "boot on the other foot" thread was blown off lightly with the males thinking "oh well, she already wears pants, shorts, etc., so what would be the big adjustment?

Accepting a partner's desire for infantilism inherently requires a deeper level of accepting and adjusting one's private life.

I'm making no accusations, just expressing my thoughts and opinions.

[Jenna1561]

I have to agree with Kat on this. I do not see any implied negativity in the original post. I believe Kew is simply attempting to get us to think about ourselves and how we would react to a "life-shattering" revelation.

Personally I see a lot of negativity and defensiveness in many of the replies.

Kew, I applaud you for making a post that is both thought provoking and soul stirring.


Love,


Jenna

[vbcdgrl]

I think I know what Kew is getting at, and basically agree with "Yes I am's" response.
CDs should not expect their SOs to just "grin and bear it". That's extremely selfish. If your SO is supportive, or even just tolerant of your CDing, count your blessings. If she's not, you've got some hard choices to make.

Vikki

[Fallen Angel]

mmmmmmmmm rock a bye baby on angles lap,i dont know what would be worst the feeding or the changeing but luv is strange xxxxxx's

[GG Vanya]

It's disappointing to see so many "my kink is ok but your kink is not" posts, not to mention the ones who are simply making jokes about AB's rather than do the difficult work of actually imagining yourself in the position Kew has described and *thinking* about what your reaction would be, then comparing that feeling to what SO's of CD's feel upon discovery.

Sure, this topic takes you out of your comfort zone, but it also sheds light on how SO's are jerked out of their comfort zones against their will in *reality* instead of imagination.

[DeeInGeorgia]

Vanya,

My wife is overweight by quite a lot. She takes a lot of different medications every day. We are both in our 50s. Every day I worry that I will wake up and she has had a stroke or a heart attack that makes her an invalid where she has to wear diapers, etc. That would be even worse than dealing with someone doing it as a fetish.

Because of my internal assumed weirdness when I was younger, I have always been a bit more empathetic to strangeness, though when younger, I did have a problem with heavy women as possible mates. The women I came into contact with saw my acceptance of all as a trait that turned them off, they prefering the macho, slap them around, big jock, father figure personality.

My wife today is not the person I married 20 years ago. She never told me about her food fetish, but a few months before our wedding, she threatened to call off the wedding if I ever came between her and her food. Since then she has gained 100 pounds and outweighs me by 90 pounds (during the same time I gained 25 pounds).

But I will not leave her. It took me 15 years of dating and asking out over 60 women and going out with over 30, before I found her. God meant for me to marry her. I am terrified she will become bed ridden and I will have to take care of her, and I do not know if I will be able to do it.

So whats a little crossdressing?

Dee

[Nike]

I'd be disappointed that she didn't tell me in the early stages as I did about the CD thing. Beyond that, I understand that there is comfort and a "letting go" which happens when I dress, so rather than empathy, I could relate on some level. Dressing is comforting. It is as far removed from the things I "do" in my daily life and allows me to reconnect with "being". This would be how I would understand the desire for AB. The desire for comfort and nurturing (which in some ways is what we CD's do for ourselves by dressing) would seem to be the force which drives this desire.

It might be uncomfortable, and even feel silly, but understanding the need of my partner for reassuring comfort is something I would hope to provide in this scenario as I attempt do in our day-to-day life anyway. Like any activity partners share, I would expect that each was afforded the respect of their personal limits, and see a unique opportunity for intimacy.

I personally think this was a fine exercise as it allowed me to address how comfortable I am with myself, my Bride and my life circumstance.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

P.S. You don't EXERCISE empathy. That sounds downright insulting, it's like "Here, let me help you grow a heart you filthy heartless beast". Now I know that isn't what you meant but with the vindictive tone of this thread that's how I took it.

I'm a licensed psychotherapist and YES, you can exercise empathy. It's a skill and quality that can be cultivated. So, I disagree.

As for the vindictive tone, I'm perplexed/confused by your statement.
Did you not hear that I love and like CD's/TG's. That they are my friends and have been a partner of mine. And, I would like to pursue a relationship again and not with a plain genetic male but a CD/TG male. So I don't get how my tone could be construed as vindictive. My intent was to get CD's/TG's in relationships out of their comfort zone and try to imagine, if their partner had some secret about their being that was not widely accepted and that they themselves might not accept--how would that feel? Would it be so easy to accept them? Would it make you question what you thought you knew of them? Would it change your relationship with them?

Again, I'm only trying to encourage thought and reflection. Several of you have done a stupendous job. Some very insightful comments and reflections!

Thank you,
Kew

[KewTnCurvy GG]

mmmmmmmmm rock a bye baby on angles lap,i dont know what would be worst the feeding or the changeing but luv is strange xxxxxx's

Ummm, she might want to breastfeed!
Kew

[AmandaM]

You made a fatal mistake in your exercise. You tried to get us to think outside of the box with an example that unconsciously, to many, directly compares cding to abing. Alluding to their equality in shock-value. That's why others asked the point of why not asking about mtf/ftm. You missed a direct comparison. What you asked is akin to asking us, "Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". Apples and oranges. This is borne out by the varied responses that do not lead to definitive conclusions.

However, sorely disappointed with the responses here!! Now, some of you got it and took it to task. I'm not COMPARING CD'ing to infantalism. I'm simply trying to create a situation that asks you--and I'm assuming for most of you this to be true--step out of your comfort zone and TRULY PUT YOURSELF IN YOUR PARTNER"S SHOES. As I said before, this is an excerise in EMPATHY.

BTW, if I was not a cding male, and my gf said she was ftm, I would not accept it for myself, I'd want a regular chick.

[Jodie_Lynn]

I can only speak for myself, I will not presume to speak for others here or elsewhere.

Kew's attempt to make people 'move out of their comfort zone' is admirable, but I'm not sure that it applies to all here.

In my case, my wife (of 239 months ) is aware of Jodie-Lynn. She has expressed her feelings as "It doesn't really bother me, do it if you want", as long as our friends, family, and daughter don't find out. And while I would love her to accept Jodie into our life, buying or just shopping for her, girls nite, etc, I can understand and empathize with her unwillingness to do so, and I have kept the interaction between Jodie and her to a minimum. Clothing and accessories are sparingly bought, and on the cheap so as not to drain family funds with my "hobby". I give her no excuse or reason to become actively displeased with CD-ing/TG-ism. I accept her acceptance.

I have to admit that I have seen some posters on these boards with the "Why can't she fully integrate my alter ego into our lives" threads, and had to shake my head in wonder. It seems it isn't enough that a CD's spouse tolerates it, but the CD wants enthusiastic support and involvement. But it is understandable, in that we all wish for support and acceptance from our loved ones.

For some, they have a seemingly "golden" life where their spouse not only accepts, but participates and even encourages.

I think that the reason many CD's choose to conceal their behavior, is partly due to an empathy for how their spouse will react, and the spouses wellbeing as well.

I cannot say that Kews posts were negative, but the first post in this thread did strike me as containing somewhat of a "well how would you feel" anger to it. I'm sure that is not the tone she wished to express, but that is, I think, how many received it.

[GG Vanya]

You made a fatal mistake in your exercise. You tried to get us to think outside of the box with an example that unconsciously, to many, directly compares cding to abing. Alluding to their equality in shock-value. That's why others asked the point of why not asking about mtf/ftm. You missed a direct comparison. What you asked is akin to asking us, "Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". Apples and oranges. This is borne out by the varied responses that do not lead to definitive conclusions.



BTW, if I was not a cding male, and my gf said she was ftm, I would not accept it for myself, I'd want a regular chick.

Amanda,

Someone tried the direct comparison in the "boot on the other foot" thread.
As I stated previously, most just blew it off, presumably because CDs seem to feel that their SO's already crossdress when they wear pants, etc. It wasn't a "stretch" for CDs to consider their wives as F2M in that regard.

I really don't view it as equal to spanking fish. AB's "crossdress" in their own way. They cross from adult apparel to infant apparel. When in the infant apparel, ABs assume the mannerisms of an infant, just as genetic males assume mannerisms of a female when wearing feminine attire.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

You made a fatal mistake in your exercise. You tried to get us to think outside of the box with an example that unconsciously, to many, directly compares cding to abing. Alluding to their equality in shock-value. That's why others asked the point of why not asking about mtf/ftm. You missed a direct comparison. What you asked is akin to asking us,"Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". Apples and oranges. This is borne out by the varied responses that do not lead to definitive conclusions.



BTW, if I was not a cding male, and my gf said she was ftm, I would not accept it for myself, I'd want a regular chick.

Fatal? How so? It doesn't appear fatal at all.
Disturbing, thought provoking, yes, but fatal no.

Shock value is not my aim but to get folks to step outside their comfort level. This could not be accomplished by asking genetic males to think of how they might feel if their SO wanted to dress and act as a male.

Your analogy that my asking CD's to think/consider if their SO came out as an AB is equivalent to ,"Your wife says she likes to spank fish" or "she wants to howl at the moon". is ludicris and terribly faulty reasoning on your part. An AB wants to don clothing and assume behaviors that is similar to a CD wanting to don clothing and assume behaviors. That is not the case when you say, "your wife says she likes to spank fish". That does not involve clothing--which CDing does and it is about a specific behavior and not the essence of something, i.e., to be like a baby, to be like a woman.

Kew
*goes and gets some bandages for her wounds*
Geeeeeeeez folks, truly not trying to offend, just to get you to think!

[Dee 1062]

I have heard about this and if that's your thing then fine with me.
My question is did you just want to ask a question or is this somthing that happen to you? or are you the one that is a baby?
I'm sure somewhere on the net they have a post for you...This one is for transgender people...And acting like a baby is not transgender...unless he is a baby boy who wants to wear pink diapers, then just maybe

[nikisbest]

I'm a licensed psychotherapist and YES, you can exercise empathy. It's a skill and quality that can be cultivated. So, I disagree.

As for the vindictive tone, I'm perplexed/confused by your statement.
Did you not hear that I love and like CD's/TG's. That they are my friends and have been a partner of mine. And, I would like to pursue a relationship again and not with a plain genetic male but a CD/TG male. So I don't get how my tone could be construed as vindictive. My intent was to get CD's/TG's in relationships out of their comfort zone and try to imagine, if their partner had some secret about their being that was not widely accepted and that they themselves might not accept--how would that feel? Would it be so easy to accept them? Would it make you question what you thought you knew of them? Would it change your relationship with them?

Again, I'm only trying to encourage thought and reflection. Several of you have done a stupendous job. Some very insightful comments and reflections!

Thank you,
Kew

Kew,

I for one appreciated this question, I don't see where some have gotten anything negative out of it. Some didn't get the fact that you just used the comparison that you used (out of the blue) just to give an example. I think that sometimes we as CD's are somewhat selfish in that, we only think of what we want and desire. That our better half has put up with some of the things we have done out of love, and we sometimes abuse that love and never think anything of it. I think that being CD has made me a more open-minded person. I can remember when an old g/f made a comment that she wanted something sexual that I thought was kinda weird, that I made some smart comment and made fun of it. I would hope that I would be more open-minded now, and would try my best to give my wife as much support as possible. I am one of the lucky ones, in that, my wife knows and has bought several things for me. If I were to make fun of or act selfish about something she enjoyed or even wanted to try, would be unthinkable.
Niki

[KewTnCurvy GG]

I have heard about this and if that's your thing then fine with me.
My question is did you just want to ask a question or is this somthing that happen to you? or are you the one that is a baby?
I'm sure somewhere on the net they have a post for you...This one is for transgender people...And acting like a baby is not transgender...unless he is a baby boy who wants to wear pink diapers, then just maybe

Oh dear, dear me!

Did not happen to me ever.

Have always had a thing for boiz in makeup and have tried making up some of my ex-b/f's to their chagrin!

Dated a cd'er and am actively seeking a cd'er/tg as a partner.

I don't want to dress or act like a baby and tho am rather quite tolerant of differences in ppl, this would totally turn me off if my partner engaged in this activity.

Kew

I here this issue a LOT! Why can't we be accepted? Why can't my wife understand (fill in the blank). Why can she where boiz clothes and it's not okay for me? WHy WHY WHY!? So, it seemed trying to approach this from an angle that could truly get ppl to think, might help.

[Roberta Lynn]

Hey Kew, You done good.
Thanks for the thread.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Hey Kew, You done good.
Thanks for the thread.

You're welcome!

You'd think I"m the devil incarnate!

Nothing like biting the hand that feeds you!
Kew