Who decided guys can't be pretty?

[Rikidee]

Who decided what kind of clothes women and men would wear? Even back in biblical days when the controversial scripture was written about a man wearing women's clothes, men and women both wore robes that looked a lot alike to me. If it is wrong for men and women to crossdress then a lot of women are in trouble since they wear pants all the time. I have always envied women and girls because they get to wear cute and pretty clothes. Look at the baggy pants and shorts that guys wear today!! Who came up with that? What's the point of wearing shorts if they go to the middle of your shins? You can't even buy men's shorts that are shorter. Fortunately for me it doesn't bother me to buy and wear women's shorts so I can get them in the shorter lengths that I like to wear. Guys can't be considered pretty or cute beyond about six years old. They have to begin being MACHO. I thing I am still cute and I love to wear girl's clothes. I have finally gotten to the point in my life where I still don't go out near home but when I go out of town I don't care who sees me or reads me. I love wearing women's shirts and shorts when I am in drab and no one seems to mind in the least. For the most part you find that only your "friends" and family are judgemental, most other people could care less. I am fortunate in that I am 5'2" tall and weigh130 lbs. I keep my body competely shaved except for my arms and I love it. I know I am rambling but I wanted to get this off my chest. What do you think about the clothes thing?

Rikidee

[kamala]

Rikidee,

I completely agree!! I was travelling this week and found a super nice pink womens twin set (I think that's what they are called) and felt sooo good in it with a pair of ladies kahki shorts. I want to wear them home (on the plane) but decided against it....I didn't look like a girl, but I did look good....

Kamala

[Vera Lynn]

I have often wondered this as well

It is not right that men are not allowed to express themselves the same way women can

I had a large delivery just today from Fredericks and as i type< I am lounging in my livingroom in a new white corset and g-string with stockings....reminds me, I must go put on the pumps now...brb

[Dee 1062]

I agree and I always wear women's shorts to the store or where ever...You go girl.

[femboi (san diego)]

That's how I dress almost 100% of the time. Even at work I wear short shorts, pink tank tops and my hair is long and styled.

[Karren H]

Well both sexes wear shorts and jeans so if you wear a pair that is more fem or more mascaline than society thinks you should, it isn't really appearent to a disinterested third party. But a male wearing a dress or a skirt changes everything, especially if your not fully enfemme!!

Shorts and jeans, fem or not, don't really do anything for me at all. If I'm going to wear feminine clothing its skirts, dresses, capris and or gauchos.. And those are not currently deamed by society as proper male atire so it's fully enfemme for me or nothing...well except maybe some lingerie under my male duds....


Denim is great for going in the coal mine and sopping up oil off the garage floor!! Hehehe. Not much else!


Love Karren

[Julogden]

Who decided what kind of clothes women and men would wear? Even back in biblical days when the controversial scripture was written about a man wearing women's clothes, men and women both wore robes that looked a lot alike to me.

Hi Rikidee,

OK, I know this is dangerous, but here goes, I'm going to address a religious subject. Just want to say, this is in no way a condemnation of anyone's religion, it's just information that I found when I did some personal research a few years ago, and I'm offering a very brief summation here, in hope that it might be of interest.

Regarding your Old Testament reference, some modern Jewish scholars (we're talking about Hebrew law here) say that the so-called anti-crossdressing part of Deutereonomy is not actually forbidding CD'ing for the reasons that bring us all here to this forum, rather it was most likely for one of two other possible reasons.

One possibility is that it was a law to keep women and men from disguising themselves as a member of the opposite sex in order to gain access to space reserved for their opposites in order to have sexual relations.

Note that the law first states that it's wrong for women to wear men's things, and this supposedly indicates that this part is more important than men wearing women's things, as order of words supposedly indicates what part of a law is more important, so the part about men not wearing women's things is of less importance, possibly because it was feared that women, who were held in lower esteem in many ways, might try to sneak into men's spaces in order to improve their lot in life.

The other possible reason is a condemnation of some competing religions of the time that worshipped female deities and whose "priestesses" were males who crossdressed or even cut off their genitals and lived as women in order to more closely emulate their Goddess (I think Cybele was the Goddess most often cited), and this was an abomination to the patriarchal Hebrew religion.

Anyway, that's what I found, and no I didn't save citations of where I found this info, sorry. Hopefully, this wasn't off on too much of a tangent.

Carol

[Karren H]

Luckily us heathens don't have any problems like that, Carol!!!

Love karren

[AmberJadeFLCD]

I may be off track on this. There may be another religous reason. The Bible warns against being sensual and committing sins of the flesh. When donning our female attire most of us become sensual cause we like the look and the of feel womens clothes on our bodies.

[Calliope]

I long for the Swingin' Sixties when long hair and psychedelic foppery were the rage.

Brian Jones and Terry Knight were so much more beautiful than, say, Raquel Welch (such awful attire) and Liz Taylor (so conservative!). (Of course, Twiggy had everyone beat.) Part of that style, I've always thought, originated with the impulse to resist war (specifically, the draft) - then it was unthinkable a woman would be in combat (hence the co-optation of groovy guys). A man risked a broken nose for long hair in those days.

Notice how the flowing hair and freaky clothes sort of devolved into a cowboy look around the time Vietnam concluded. 'Jim Dandy to the rescue.'

I knew the CD buzz was chasing me when, one day at a used clothes store, I lamented bitterly about the bland colors and retarded patterns offered to men ... while the womens' section was convulsing with riots of brightness.

[cindianna_jones]

It sure wasn't the European men of the 18th century. They wore some beatuiful attire, make up, tights, pretty shoes, and wigs.

Cindi

[Billijo49504]

I think you'll find that women started wearing men's things back during WWII,When Rosey the Riveter was in the defense plants. They took the mens jobs, because the men were at war. Ask your mothers, if they are alive, mine isn't...BJ

[noname]

Who decided what kind of clothes women and men would wear? Even back in biblical days when the controversial scripture was written about a man wearing women's clothes, men and women both wore robes that looked a lot alike to me. If it is wrong for men and women to crossdress then a lot of women are in trouble since they wear pants all the time.

I know how you feel. That is why I find it upsetting when women stare or give odd looks. Hey missy why are staring at me when you wear pants, short or even that skirt that barely covers your butt, and now you judge me. plzzzz.... You know, I didn't you a dirty look and call you a ****. Ok, enough venting.

I have always envied women and girls because they get to wear cute and pretty clothes. Look at the baggy pants and shorts that guys wear today!! Who came up with that? What's the point of wearing shorts if they go to the middle of your shins? You can't even buy men's shorts that are shorter.

You real called it like it is. I see mens shorts that are as long as capris, and long shirts as long as night shirts. Yes, that unspoken law that my clothes can't be fun and stylish. Shirts must be baggy with sleaves the elbo, pants and shorts must be baggy, and you must be drownding in clothes. I will say mens clothing designers should be fired. Styles haven't really changed in over a decade.

For the most part you find that only your "friends" and family are judgemental, most other people could care less. I am fortunate in that I am 5'2" tall and weigh130 lbs. I keep my body competely shaved except for my arms and I love it. I know I am rambling but I wanted to get this off my chest. What do you think about the clothes thing?

Feel free to ramble, but it's how I feel. Earlier this year I started to get into fashion and wanted nice clothes. The more I observed people and the clothing styles I started to realize how style deprived mens clothing is, and how I'm basically getting screwed. I had waited over 3 years for strech flare jeans for men. So I finally went out and got a pair, and basically decided if I like something I'm going to get it.

And yes it's usually family and friends who seem to give the most greif, but it hasn't been that bad for me.

[Lisa Golightly]

Oh, it's probably all to do with establishing the fabricated patriachal social model above the natural matriachal one. Engel's Family, Private Property & the State would point to men having to constantly reinforce the dominance of men over women in order to maintain control.

For men to dress as women, in a patriachal social model, is heresy.

[Ellaine]

Let's get into heresey then. Bring it on!
It's got to be better than the well organised chaos we have today lol

Damn there's more phsyciatrists that window cleaners!


Lisa, The avatar is stunning. lovit!

[cdaleli]

The rules of fashion may be shifting... though it may be too slow for us I have now noticed more men be bold and wear shirts or pants that may be questioned by society yet they are not.... It seems to me that the only society that may have gotten it right were the Scotts with the conforts of the Kilt!

[Calliope]

Engel's Family, Private Property & the State would point to men having to constantly reinforce the dominance of men over women in order to maintain control.

Wow - I haven't heard of anyone mentioning that particular book in ages! What a thought-provoking tome - smart stuff, a real launching pad. (For the record, I [writing as Barry Stoller, my old 'commie' pen-name] mentioned that book in the context of my particular experience as a housewife in a letter-to-the-editor published in he 200th anniversary issue of Harper's - oo wee.)

[Lisa Golightly]

Lisa, The avatar is stunning. lovit!

Thank you angel

[Lisa Golightly]

Wow - I haven't heard of anyone mentioning that particular book in ages! What a thought-provoking tome - smart stuff, a real launching pad. (For the record, I [writing as Barry Stoller, my old 'commie' pen-name] mentioned that book in the context of my particular experience as a housewife in a letter-to-the-editor published in he 200th anniversary issue of Harper's - oo wee.)

It's one of those works that changes your view of the world... like J.S.Mill's On Liberty. Both were quite influential in allowing me to throw off the inherited social shackles that wished to prevent me from existing as my true self.

[Kate Simmons]

If you delve deeper into the meaning of the above Scripture, the reason is that the men were expected to wage war and defend Isreal. To attempt to shirk this duty by pretending to be a woman by dressing was an abomination. The women were expected to perform the domestic duties. For a woman to don a man's clothes or armor to fight for Isreal was also an abomination. Each sex had it's assigned duties and obligations. That what it was really all about. Ericka

[Marla S]

Oh, it's probably all to do with establishing the fabricated patriachal social model above the natural matriachal one. Engel's Family, Private Property & the State would point to men having to constantly reinforce the dominance of men over women in order to maintain control.

For men to dress as women, in a patriachal social model, is heresy.

I totally agree. That's the main reason (maybe besides some practical concerns.)

It most always has been the "duty", and still is today, of woman to look pretty and enforce their natural prettyness by clothes and makeup.
Polemically said, they have to do it to please men.
Some of the feminine clothes are even expressing the desired submissivness of women in a patriarchic system physically. High heels, tight skirts, corsetts and the like physically restrict mobility and can be seen as "pretty chains".
(This part of the erotic load of this clothes as well as the cause woman's-movement to get rid of them. Of course this kind of clothes have high esthetic aspects too. Today women can decide if they go for this esthetic aspects to express themselves wearing them or don't wear them because of their unfunctionality or their "submissive" load)

In contrast men's clothes at first have to be practical and non-restricting. The highest you can get with is elegance, best expressed by the traditionell british dress-code for men.

Men wearing clothes for prettyness are always irritating, because they "degrade" themselves. It's irritating for men ("Are you gay ?") and for women ("I want to have a real men").

[Deanna2]

I think you have raised several issues that centre around the desire of all societies to put labels on things and then stick them in little boxes.

First up, men can be pretty. It's just that with males, society tends to use the term 'handsome'. Now whether that is just with facial features, pyshique or overall image, I guess it varies from case to case. Not that I go round soaking up male beauty, but there are many examples we can all come with.

Secondly, there is the issue of 'crossdressing'! Again it is society that dictates what males and females can and should wear. I remember the battles that women had in being accepted in pants or trouser suits as they used to be called. As my wife says, women can wear male-oriented gear because it has be feminized. That is lace and frills have been added. Style has been changed to suit a female figure, etc. The same hasn't happened the other way around. I reckon the battle for guys to be accepted in what is regarded as female gear would be much harder than the battle women had for acceptance.

From a personal point of view I wear femme gear and use make up, not to be pretty but to feel good. In fact right now I'm wearing an ankle length orange skirt with a white D&G top and I feel fantastic. And what's more is my wife rather likes the outfit.

[Kimberly]

If it is wrong for men and women to crossdress then a lot of women are in trouble since they wear pants all the time.

We should NOT forget that it has taken a while for women in our society to gain the ability to wear trousers as openly as they do now. I see pictures from 50 years ago, and all the women in those are in skirts - no exceptions.

It must have been as oppressive as you find not being able to wear skirts, nowadays.

Just take a moment to think about that. xx

[sophie1]

its not just the type of the clothes it the colours of the clothes too i find. men are stuck with blue, black grey Ect while women get much brighter colours.
Sophie

[Ranee Daze]

I think we are all in agreement here...that ughly male gender box, full of boring clothes, fragrances, no makeup, boring shoes and no real fun at all needs to be busted apart and another, much roomier one built....or...we can live our double lives and have fun in both worlds, which is my preference.
AS far as the old testament...well the one thing that is true about it is the "old" part. Messages meant for Hebrews 3000 years ago carry little weight in this modern world with me.
We have come a little way in 3000 years, most of us shave our face, which in fact is a form of crossdressing.