double standards???

[paulcduk]

hi,

Is this double standards?, fair?, unfair?

The following examples from my life seem to me like double standards.

Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop.

She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

On the other hand..................

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

when I came out to her, she said "i am ok with you wearing, but never want to be involved with it, or know about it"

thanks

paul

[Marla S]

There are indeed some double standards, but poking on them won't help you.
1.) A lot will deny it. 2.) They are not the reason for rejecting CDing. 3.) Nobody said that the world is or has to be fair.
Make the best out of it and dress fem-casual. Almost nobody will realize that you crossdress. The fem-feeling comes from the mind and not so much from the clothes.

[JenGurl]

Tough situation there. But you gotta do whats makes you happy and what you feel is best for you. Being an adult I would never tolerate being told what I can and cannot wear. Just my opinion.

[fionasboots]

There are indeed some double standards, but poking on them won't help you.
1.) A lot will deny it. 2.) They are not the reason for rejecting CDing. 3.) Nobody said that the world is or has to be fair.
Make the best out of it and dress fem-casual. Almost nobody will realize that you crossdress. The fem-feeling comes from the mind and not so much from the clothes.

I'd agree with Marla here, the world does not exist to be fair for you, life is life and that's the end of it. Whinging about it won't change anything (sorry, I'm just making a point, not having a go at you).

I would also say that, if you are not happy with the boundaries that your SO has set then you need to talk about it. Ask her what she feels about the CDing, is it something that she is struggling to come to terms with?

Her reaction sounds similar to my wifes; "if you must CD then I don't want to know or have anything to do with it". Also your SO sounds like she is trying to discourage or eliminate obvious avenues for CDing (taking those jeans away) this also rings true with my situation and I think it is probably a perfectly natural reaction for an SO to have - they want their 'man' around not the CD/fem side.

Best advice I was given is: Listen, followed by: talk. See what you can work out so that you are both happy. Best to avoid a situation where problems just fester, get things out in the open.

[ And don't use "it's not fair" as an argument, it won't work, trust me ]

[susandrea]

Women who wear more masculine clothing aren't internally altering their gender, or trying to pass themselves off as men.

[Nikki Dee]

It might seem unfair but I don't think it's double standards at all...you gotta see it from her point of view love..girls have always worn jeans/trousers/pants..and mens shirts /short hair.etc...but it is NOT a gender issue..they aren't wearing those things for the same reason we are when we dress in femme clothes!.....they are not trying to be /feel/look like the opposite gender....unlike us.!!!...there is a difference.
Nikki.

[Sandra]

So because she wears manly clothes you think she should let you wear fem clothes, belive me it don't work like that, it takes time and a lot of give and take on both sides and then sometimes it just don't work. I suggest you ask her if you can have a chat with her, don't demand to chat tell her how you feel and be honest.

[Karren H]

Everything changes when she finds out.....like a shift in the time space continuium (spelling check please!!) lol Same with me.....plus the makeup disappeared and the bras are no longer hung on the back of the bathroom door!! I think she feels that it would be too tempting for me and she doesn't want me wearing her things!! Women!!

Love Karren

[Calliope]

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

Sounds like it's time for a new girlfriend.

girls have always worn jeans/trousers/pants..and mens shirts /short hair.etc...but it is NOT a gender issue..

100 years ago in America, women who refused to wear dresses etc were usually locked up in 'sanitoriums.' I think it was a gender issue.

[tammie]

Hi Everyone: I think it very unfair, now however its probaly too late to get the women's jeans back. My experience was simular however with differant outcome.

I was married to a tall strong athletic woman who worked her way thru college as a lifeguard and semi pro softball. Once when we were going out, there were no clean chonies for me to wear, so she hands me a Bali skimpskamp and tells me to put it on. I had already been dressing as a teen, so I immediately got an erection. She noticed and said "we will do something about that later".

Now it is important to remember my X was already wearing my shirts (she is a mining engineer) & my boots jackets and sometimes my levis. Also I found out later her father (Xpro baseball player) was a CD so she was actually comfortable about it.

It was maybe 3 months later one Sat morning she announced she was going shopping and would be gone for 4 hrs. In the wastbasket in our bedroom were 2 really cute underwire lace bras. One black and one nude. I got them out and put on the nude one. it fit me so well I was immediately erect. I was preoccupied with that when I looked up and there she was standing there watching me. Her response was; "if U R going to wear a bra U R going to wear a garterbelt and stockings too".

So she could not only tolerate it she figured out how to get me started without her "making me" and bonus she now was in control so to speak, she being a very dominate women took full advantage. The rest as they say is history. Sadly we got divorced after several yrs, but remain friends.

My present SO knows, but doesn't want to see or know. I can only wear panties and then only if they R black or blue and no lace. Boring! I adore lace and nude ivory and pink even.

[Lindsay Marie]

My guess is she wears such items because she is more comfortable that way, same as you wearing such items for the same reason. Give it some time she might come around, and if not lose her. If she can wear whatever she wants then so can you, just give it time and don't push the envelope. Just try sneaking it in casually once in a while and see what happens.

[julie w]

what in life is fair anyway ? you need to look after you needs too, if she doesnt
approve and you want to stay with her dress when she is not around or join a cd club in you area , its no good fighting you cd ing it wont go away

[Tree GG]

Sure it's a double standard and it's not fair - as everyone has said, tough. Life ain't fair.

Personally, though, hang in there. I can't tell how long your SO has known of your CD desire, but it really takes time and open, loving conversation to get through many of the petty issues that pop up. They are "petty" now, but believe me, they initially seemed like the end of the world.

Hopefully in time she'll see that the "man" she loves is still there, and the excited, "childish" twinkle in his eyes when he's planning an outfit is priceless. Then again, she may not want to accept it. Sorry, no one said it was fair.

Tree

[eleyna]

The motivations behind your dressing and hers are very different, the first is romantic (and socially destigmatized) and the second is more or less compulsory. She probably doesn't see the first as CD (*shrug* t-shirts) and maybe the compulsory shoe thing makes it a little harder for her to understand your situation - to me that would explain her reaction with the jeans. She probably cops a bit of aggravation for wearing guys boots, and there you are willfully wearing girly things. That's a lot to take onboard.

Have you asked her why she would give you the jeans when she thought you wouldn't be OK with wearing them? If it wasn't a fish to see if you would wear them, maybe she was looking for some support or something from you - which may have made her react badly when instead you came out. (Did you get the "all about you" line? [slightly tounge in cheek])

[SherryLynn GG]

hi,


She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

Personally I dont think this is double standard at all...as others have said your wife isnt wearing these things because she wants to feel like or pass as a man...

CDing is a hard thing for lots of women to accept, but she shouldnt automatically accept it because she has big feet and cant wear womens boots....As you said she struggles to find womens boots which means she'd rather wear womens, but is forced to wear mens....So I DEFINATELY dont think its fair to assume that because of this she should accept you and not have anything to say on the subject

And her not wearing heels?? Not sure what that matters....ALOT of women dont wear heels, me being one of them....but that doesnt mean my husband should be able to wear whatever he wants whenever he wants....He is a CD, and I accept him, but not because i do or dont wear something that it seems alot of CDs think women should wear

[Marla S]

Women who wear more masculine clothing aren't internally altering their gender, or trying to pass themselves off as men.

It might seem unfair but I don't think it's double standards at all...you gotta see it from her point of view love..girls have always worn jeans/trousers/pants..and mens shirts /short hair.etc...but it is NOT a gender issue..they aren't wearing those things for the same reason we are when we dress in femme clothes!.....they are not trying to be /feel/look like the opposite gender....unlike us.!!!...there is a difference.
Nikki.

Personally I dont think this is double standard at all...as others have said your wife isnt wearing these things because she wants to feel like or pass as a man...

Well then. According to this statements I am not a CD despite 3/4 of my waredrobe consists of women's labled clothes and I wear them on a daily basis in and out (I've stated elsewhere that I am "cured" of crossdressing anyway). I assure you I am not a fetishist either (couldn't stand this long time arousal).
Remains the question:

What I am ? (The one that thought meanwhile to be a TS)

To which category does Butterfly Bill belong to ? (He doesn't even shave facial hair).

Your arguments seem odd to me, but I am eager to learn something.

[Holly O'Niell]

Quote:-( Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop).

Can someone explain this:-
- Your SO was perfectly okay with her knowing you would wear 'girls'
jeans.

- Your SO was perfectly okay with her knowing that her best friend knows
you would wear 'girls' jeans.

- Your SO is NOT okay with her knowing that you would 'LIKE TO'
wear 'girls' jeans.

So she is agreeable to you wearing them as long as you don't enjoy it???
To be honest, at this stage of your relationship, if she won't let you wear jeans then it is time for a re-think by both parties.
Sorry,
Holly.

[AmberTG]

I'm with Holly on that one, this is a major issue for her, and obviously for you also. If she doesn't want to be associated with that part of you, it's going to cause trouble in your relationship, her dislike and your resentment will drive a wedge between you two that will just keep getting worse. Many CDs lose a marrage because of issues that are byproducts of the dislike and resentment of the two people. You have to decide if she's important enough to you for you to let the resentment go. Neither one of you is likely to change on this issue. She probably wants to be with a "manly man" not a "girly man" and your CDing puts you in the "girly man" catagory in her eyes. That's probably why she doesn't want to know anything about it. It becomes your choice to make, not hers.
I agree that her wearing men's boots etc is a comfort and fit issue, not a CD issue, totally different perspective. Many women with wide feet struggle with that problem. Also, there's really not much available in the way of women's "rough duty" clothing, so she's forced to wear certain items of men's clothing because that's what's available.
Amber

[Yes I am]

hi,

Is this double standards?, fair?, unfair?

The following examples from my life seem to me like double standards.

Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop.

She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

On the other hand..................

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

when I came out to her, she said "i am ok with you wearing, but never want to be involved with it, or know about it"

thanks

paul

Maybe it's a double standard, maybe it's not. But seriously, you need to dump this chick.

[eleyna]

Well then. According to this statements I am not a CD despite 3/4 of my waredrobe consists of women's labled clothes and I wear them on a daily basis in and out (I've stated elsewhere that I am "cured" of crossdressing anyway). I assure you I am not a fetishist either (couldn't stand this long time arousal).
Remains the question:

Read Nikki Dee's post again. And again.

We try to wear clothes for women, whereas largely when women wear our clothes, they are simply wearing menswear clothes.

There are virtually no types of clothing item made for men that aren't also part of the standard female wardrobe. The opposite is true. There are braziers for very large men, there are kilts, there are even girdles.

But largely when your average woman puts on menswear jeans, she is simply wearing clothing. That's different than when a woman dressed "en-masc", as our companions over in the next forum might tell you.

[eleyna]

Maybe it's a double standard, maybe it's not. But seriously, you need to dump this chick.

Hey, she gave him another chick's pants to wear. I think that's one worth working out the issues with ;-P

[Marla S]

We try to wear clothes for women, whereas largely when women wear our clothes, they are simply wearing menswear clothes.

There are virtually no types of clothing item made for men that aren't also part of the standard female wardrobe. The opposite is true. There are braziers for very large men, there are kilts, there are even girdles.

But largely when your average woman puts on menswear jeans, she is simply wearing clothing. That's different than when a woman dressed "en-masc", as our companions over in the next forum might tell you.

[IRONY]
Ok, if I got this right I am rather a WLCW-HTAFB* than a CD.
If so, I can live with this label, though I doubt I can memorize it.

*Women's-Labeled-Clothes-Wearer---Having-Traits-Assigned-Feminine-Believer
[/IRONY]

[eleyna]

[IRONY]
Ok, if I got this right I am rather a WLCW-HTAFB* than a CD.
If so, I can live with this label, though I doubt I can memorize it.

*Women's-Labeled-Clothes-Wearer---Having-Traits-Assigned-Feminine-Believer
[/IRONY]

Actually, I think I chose my words poorly "wear clothes for women" was mean't to read "wear clothes intended for women"; the omitted word makes for a rather large difference in interpretation.

I'm not, per se, trying to make a point about us as much as make the point that society generally accepts menswear as part of the female wardrobe - or atleast I think most men do, our FTM comrades might take issue with me there.

The grass will never make the night sky lighter, but the clouds often make the daylight duller. Is that a double standard or is it just a fact of life?

[Marla S]

Actually, I think I chose my words poorly "wear clothes for women" was mean't to read "wear clothes intended for women"; the omitted word makes for a rather large difference in interpretation.

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

[Lisa Golightly]

A lack of style is somewhat different to active subversion...