double standards???

[Tree GG]

As a GG I can wear a 3 pc suit, tie, wing-tips & pull my hair back severely, wear no make-up or jewelry & NOT be labelled perverted or freak. I may not be "dressed for success" or considered "pretty", but I can pretty much wear either male or fem clothing style with no serious social consequences. BTW, when I wear my husband's clothes it's usually the grundge or work factor (although I have worn some of his ties & dress shirts before). Convenience & comfort. Why I wear them is irrelevant to the fact that I may wear them & still be predominantly socially acceptable .

Not so male to female. There is real social taboo against that - hence double standard. The CDer who wears ladies' clothes is not so readily accepted.

I think Marla may be on to something. A gradual evolution to similar style. Not male or female - just comfort and style.

Tree

[eleyna]

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

*Grin* Liberated and enviable

[eleyna]

*Grin* Liberated and enviable

Stupid Linux browser.

... Aber ich dachte nicht, daß Marla ein Kerlname war (I didn't think Marla was a guys name tho). Pardon my German

[Marla S]

Stupid Linux browser.

... Aber ich dachte nicht, daß Marla ein Kerlname war (I didn't think Marla was a guys name tho). Pardon my German

Actually your German is probably better then my Englisch.

Marla is derived from Marla Glen a FtM jazz singer.

Confusing this gender thing, isn't it

EDIT: That's why I prefer the categories feminine and masculine over male and female meanwhile. That's more non-ambiguous and is more related to CDing, IMO.

[CaptLex]

Okay, call me a busybody, but I have to put my own here.

As I see it, the original poster (paging original poster, where are you?) has two interconnected issues here: (1) finding it unfair that the girlfriend limits crossdressing while she wears whatever she wants; and (2) being treated like a child by being told what to wear or not wear in the first place (my interpretation).

In my opinion, regardless of what's fair in our society (and I will concede that there isn't much that is fair), the bigger problem, seems to me, is deciding which is worse: not being able to wear what one wants but keeping the girlfriend, or wearing whatever one's heart desires and moving on from such a relationship, even if it means having no girlfriend (perish the thought, I know).

I know what I would do in this situation, but I won't presume to make such a decision for anyone else. It's up to each individual to decide the lesser of two (or more) evils in his or her life. To paraphrase Oprah: are you better off with or without her? If you can live with someone else telling you what to wear, that's fine, but then don't complain about double standards. If you can't live with it . . . then you know what you have to do.

[Julie Avery]

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

A Kantian crossdresser. A Nietzchiean nylon lover. A German man who thinks clearly and realizes that no one has yet come up with a category which describes the way he experiences gender? I think that's the ticket.

Be well, Marla.

[nishababe]

It is double standards but thats the way that society views this issue .

My girlfriend always puts on my tee shirt,boxer shorts and anything else she fancies ummmmmmmmmm !!

When i ask her why she says ,that it makes her feel nice to wear something that I have worn and also that they are nice and comfortable .

If I wear something feminine eg girls jeans ,she barely tolerates it and does
not like it .

Thats womens rights ,when you think about it ,well almost anything goes !!

Girls can walk along cuddling and holding hands with their girlfriends .
Girls can dance with their mates and kiss one another ,all perfectly normal .

Lesbian affairs are viewed as a ''glamorous'' thing for movie stars ,pop singers and models etc .

Many married and single young women I know, now talk openly about how they would like to ''try out '' making love to other women as part of their personal experiences that is ''their right'' to try it out !!

Women and girls can wear anything they like ,men or womens clothes ,thats normal for a woman !!

Its even frowned upon for a man to show emotion and cry .

It will be a long time if ever before the social acceptance of men to be able to express their personal freedom as freely as women is ever tolerated .


Love Nishababe xx

[eleyna]

A Kantian crossdresser. A Nietzchiean nylon lover. A German man who thinks clearly and realizes that no one has yet come up with a category which describes the way he experiences gender? I think that's the ticket.

Be well, Marla.

My thoughts, your wonderfully elucidated wording =)

[CaptLex]

It will be a long time if ever before the social acceptance of men to be able to express their personal freedom as freely as women is ever tolerated.

Yes, but standing up for one's rights and claiming one's personal freedom cannot begin until one decides not to let anyone else tell them what to wear - even loved ones.

[JenGurl]

Clothes are clothes no matter who wears them. I don't know who's idea it was to genderize clothing was but that was a massive mistake. I wore a bra because I was comfortable in them. I may have a form of gynecomastia. I can tell you bras are a lifesaver when active. Also it holds my breasts up so they don't hang and rub on my upper stomach.

[Lee51964]

they can wear anything they like and no one says anything about it


wish I could do that

[DAVIDA]

Lisa you are a devil!

[Jennifer Giovannetta]

A lot of double standards exist in our society. Especially with gender issues. It is irritating to me that the type of double standards exist. Although her intentions are not to dress as a person of the opposite gender, she is wearing the clothes because they fit better. Well, i like to wear womens clothes because I like the way they feel. And, I also like the way they look. I would to love to be able to wear womens shoes. Like your SO wears mens shoes. I would not even need to wear high heels, but a nice pair of leather flats would be nice. Of course this will not happen.
It is my belief that you HAVE to live your life to make yourself happy. Your signifcant other is an important person in your life. But so are you.
I think you should do what makes you happy. So wear the clothes you like.

[JenGurl]

If I did not have breast I would not be wearing a bra. Although not diagnosed, I feel I may have some sort of gynecomastia. So therefore bras are an essential to everyday life, especially when active.

[Melinda]

hi,

Is this double standards?, fair?, unfair?

The following examples from my life seem to me like double standards.

Before i told my GG SO that i crossdress, she gave me a couple of pairs of womens Calvin Klein jeans size 14 that her best friend had grown out of, but would fit me. When I confessed my desire of crossdressing she took the jeans away, and gave them to a charity shop.

She has sometimes worn one of my T-shirts as a nightdress at night or first thing in the morning.

She has broad feet so she struggles to find womens boots to fit, so she buys herself mens boots. She wears mens boots 80% of the time and womens flat shoes the rest of the time, and never wears heels.

She has a couple of male coats (denim jacket, leather jacket, waterproof, fleece) that she wears a lot of the time.

On the other hand..................

I am never allowed to wear any womens clothes while she is around, not even underwear under my normal clothes.
She doesn't want me to wear any womens clothes while outside.
She doesn't want to ever know about my dressing.(the subject is taboo)

when I came out to her, she said "i am ok with you wearing, but never want to be involved with it, or know about it"

thanks

paul

OK, you've gotta stop dating my wife! Ha ha ha ha. She's known about this for years and knows I'll never stop but just let her find a skirt or bra or something and it's tears and shouting and dirty looks and on and on and on... It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to believe what they want to believe.

[GG Vanya]

Yanno, there *are* still men of the "knuckle dragging" sector who believe a woman's place is barefooted pregnant, and in the kitchen.

It's quite an eye opener for me to see the other side of this coin~Men complaining that women have all the rights.

I'm not ancient, but I remember when quite the opposite was true.

[JenGurl]

I think there are more important concerns to worry about other than your significant other worrying about what you wear. Everybody is different. I think we can all agree on that and the fact the world would be a dull place if everybody was the same. And I do not know why people are letting their spouses rule their very lives. I tend to think its a control thing. Perhaps they would feel embarrassed or something. Again if there were really love and understanding such things would not be an embarrassment. Take shaving for example. Some wives don't like their man to shave. I say tough, its my body and I'll do what I want. Shaving your legs and chest doesn't make you any less of a man. Some of us just like to have a clean feeling. I don't like that chest hair. Just seems some spouses get real NITPICKY on what their man does. If it feels good, just do it. You only live once. Nobody should have control of what one does with their bodies.

[CaptLex]

they can wear anything they like and no one says anything about it

wish I could do that

You can do it if you don't care what anyone says. These freedoms were not handed to anyone - they were fought for and hard won. If you wait for someone to come to you and say, "It's okay, you can now wear whatever you want", you'll be waiting forever. You have to fight for the right, if you really want it.

[Satrana]

Yes this is a clear double standard, society-wide and also in this individual case. She had no problem giving him female jeans to wear until he confessed he was a CD and then overnight he became a "pervert" and the jeans were removed.

I do not think it is healthy that one partner dictates to another what they can or cannot wear, especially in this instance where the girlfriend's views changed so dramatically. I think this issue needs to be resolved one way or the other.

With regard to those claims that women are not crossdressing because they are not trying to be men, this is only true when comparing to CDs who dress for gender reasons. There are many CDs who do not dress for gender reasons, but do so as a matter of fashion preference i.e. because they want to. They do not dress to be women. But nobody says these men are not CDs. There is no dividing line between these types of CDs and GGs

You cannot have it both ways - if men who dress in feminine clothes just because it is their fashion preference are CDs then so are women who use masculine styled clothes. But if women are not crossdressing then neither are these men so many members in this forum should not be here. Somebody should inform them they are delusional that they are CDs.

Originally Posted by Marla S

Let me challenge this.
Thanks to my mom, who teached me, I am able to tailor or even design clothes from the scratch that are intended for me (I am a GM) or other GMs. I already did, but I am too lazy in general. These clothes (would) look quite feminine and would suit most women probably better than me.

What is that ? What does it make me ?

I went one better than you Marla and went to a local dressmaker and had dresses and skirts made-to-order to fit my masculine body. I did not realise that when I wore these skirts and dresses I was no longer crossdressing because I was no longer wearing women's clothing.

[Sandra]

And I do not know why people are letting their spouses rule their very lives

Maybe because they are trying to sort things out with their SO, obviously you don't know how hard it can be for an SO.

Again if there were really love and understanding such things would not be an embarrassment.

B**S***

You can really love someone more than anything, but still find it hard to understand, for most SOs it is not an embarrassment they just need time to get their head around it and if this means certain restrictions then that is something that has to be done, if both people are to work through it.

I can only hope your SO is very understanding and accepting, otherwise if she suggests restrictions then she aint going to last long.

[Satrana]

You can really love someone more than anything, but still find it hard to understand, for most SOs it is not an embarrassment they just need time to get their head around it and if this means certain restrictions then that is something that has to be done, if both people are to work through it.

I disagree Sandra. Embarrassment may not be the main problem facing GGs but for many it is an important element. My wife allows me to dress in the house but forbids me to go outside incase I am recognized. This will be a familar situation to members here. The stigmitization of crossdressing would be passed onto my wife if people got to know that her husband dressed in feminine clothing. This is my wife's biggest fear. What sort of woman would marry a crossdresser? What does that make her?

It is also embarrassment which prevents some GGs from turning to their best friends for support. Most GGs are very sensitive to social embarrassment - the "what will the neighbors think" syndrome. Personally I do not care what the neighbors think but I defer to my wife sensitivities.

[Blonde]

Hmm, it doesn't sound like a very good relationship to me.
Now don't get me wrong here, it is your choice, but you must know that you can't really change.
You can stop for a while (most CDers "purge" once in a while), but eventually something will set you off and you'll be wearing fem cloths again.
You can not deny your real self forever. No matter how hard you try.

Myself, I was "outed" by my wife one day( I won't get into that story here and now), and the thing she was worried about was "was I going to have a sex-change one day?"
When I assured her that I was not, she was still unsure of how to handle it.
I then found as much information about CD as I could and "taught" her about who a CD was (with the information available at that time).
I am not "gay" and I am not "bi" (I hate labels, but I need to use them here in this post).
I found that (in the majority) CD is a hetro-sexual who likes to wear clothing of the opposite sex, for what ever reason, TV is a homo-sexual who likes to dress in clothing of the opposite sex, and a TS is someone who feels that they are in the wrong sex body.
I know that can sound simplistic, but that has been my experiance from the information I had gathered.
After "teaching" my wife about CD, she has become quit a bit more accepting of it. Even to the point that we both went to an informal "interview" for acceptance into the Conbury Society.
Right now the only people who know about my CD is my wife and the person from CS who we met with. (I define know as met me face to face)

[Marla S]

I went one better than you Marla and went to a local dressmaker and had dresses and skirts made-to-order to fit my masculine body. I did not realise that when I wore these skirts and dresses I was no longer crossdressing because I was no longer wearing women's clothing.

Well, we are all a bit too used to be stigmatized (even feel comfortable with it in a way). Otherwise we wouldn't meet here, but on a fashion and style forum.

[ChristineRenee]

Well...I love my wife a lot...but I didn't have to ask her permission to be transgendered...or to be a CD either for that matter. It is a major part of who I am, and I have been this way almost my whole life...long before I ever met her. Plus...I told her about it while we were still dating because I did not want major problems to arise in our marriage later on if she suddenly "discovered" it. That said...just knowing upfront didn't make everything smooth sailing for either of us over the past 13 years that we have been together. My wife is still dealing with many aspects of the whole TG issue...and while she has come a long way in understanding the woman inside her man, she still prefers that neighbors, friends, and family members not know about Chrissie. I have deferred often to her wishes on that. There is not an overwhelming need for me to be "out" to others or to be Chrissie out in public totally...though more and more Chrissie is becoming integrated outwardly in my male appearance. Perhaps it was inevitable. I can say that it surely isn't to spite my wife in any way...and I really believe now that she understands that. All I am being is who I really am...a genetic male with a very strong female persona inside of me that cannot be denied, hidden, or wished away even if I wanted it to be...which I don't.

It isn't easy to be the way we are and it is just as difficult for our spouses or SO's to understand it. Relationships are tough enough as it is and an issue of this nature often makes it just that much more difficult. It takes a lot of communication, understanding, and support on both sides. Trying to control the other person ultimately produces a lot of resentment and resistance...at least this has been my experience anyway.

[ReginaK]

Everything changes when she finds out.....like a shift in the time space continuium (spelling check please!!) lol Same with me.....plus the makeup disappeared and the bras are no longer hung on the back of the bathroom door!! I think she feels that it would be too tempting for me and she doesn't want me wearing her things!! Women!!

Love Karren

It's continuum.

I take it then you have given her a lot of information, introduced her to support forums, gave her books to read, educated her etc.... ????

You'd be surprised how many people don't want to be educated. They usually plug their ears and scream like a little kid or they simple say they won't read anything simply because you're going do nothing but give them things that support your opinion.

As for the situation at hand, there are several ways to go about:

1. You can abide by her rules and stay so deep in the closet, you'll be pulling dustballs out of your hair.

2. You say "screw it" to her rules and do whatever you please and wait until she leaves.

3. Tell her to leave and not let the door knob hit her where the good lord split her.

4. Try to compromise.

For the sake of being civil, i'd try to compromise with her (option 4). After all, you do like her and would like for her to stick around. If that didn't work, go with option 2. Dress how you please and let her feel however she wants. If she sticks around and still gives you hell, go with option 3 and show her the door (or leave yourself if it's her place).

But don't do option 1. They've said life isn't fair so many times in this thread. People who do option one are the ones who keep life unfair for all of us. Until we stand up for ourselves and do what wish, life will continue to be unfair.

And that is why I am alone today, i'm an option 2 and 3 person. I'm alone, but at least a little bit of my life is fair. Unless you're on your deathbed, you can always find someone who loves ALL of you. Someone you don't have to compromise your soul with.


Is it a double standard? Sorta. To most women it's not simply because it's a standard in their favor. To the average guy it's not, because the average guy isn't a crossdresser. But I can understand why crossdressers see it as a double standard. All we can do is our best to beat that standard into the dust.