Passing Bashing, will it end soon?

[Sophie Haworth]

Perhaps I have been too oversensitive on this subject, I almost do not wish to use the word passing now, perhaps change it to convincing?

The point I have tried to make is something that is very important to me in my crossdressing life, and a few others here, "passing" was beginning to be put down more than I thought it deserved.

An analogy.

You go to the movies and see a fantastic film, you walk out with your 5 friends, and say "wasnt that brilliant" and they respond with "rubbish, waste of time, did nothing for me, would not wish to see it again"

You feel crestfallen that your friends could not share your enjoyment of the movie, so the best thing to do is keep quiet.

Sophie.

[Melanie]

girl if you pass good for you! some women might not be the most beautiful, but they appear more femme than masculine, thats kinda where i am, anyway , thats my , suzanne

I couldn't agree more with this comment above.Cding is about expresssing our femme persona is it not?,regardless of whether we pass or not.We dress for the sensations and feeling it brings us and so must learn to enjoy it for what it is.
We are all sisters in my eyes.
Hugs,
Melanie

[Jennaie]

Perhaps I have been too oversensitive on this subject, I almost do not wish to use the word passing now, perhaps change it to convincing?

The point I have tried to make is something that is very important to me in my crossdressing life, and a few others here, "passing" was beginning to be put down more than I thought it deserved.

An analogy.

You go to the movies and see a fantastic film, you walk out with your 5 friends, and say "wasnt that brilliant" and they respond with "rubbish, waste of time, did nothing for me, would not wish to see it again"

You feel crestfallen that your friends could not share your enjoyment of the movie, so the best thing to do is keep quiet.

Sophie.

Sophie, don't think that no one feels the same as you as far as passing is concerned. Personaly, before I go out, I walk out into the sun's light and look at my face in a mirror, if I don't see a woman, I don't go out. If I did get stares and people looking at me funny when I was out I would stop going out.

That is just the way it is for me, I don't know how to explain it to anyone. For me, passing is imperative. I have no desire to go out and be seen as a man in womens clothing. I do have a desire to go out and be seen as a woman. It's that simple, and if people think I'm obsessed or over the line because I am that way, well honestly, it does not bother me a bit.

Perhaps Vanya is right in her thinking that I am more ts than tv, probably so, but I really don't think that is why I have need to pass. The gender test would dissagree as well, with questions like, "If you knew that you could never pass as a woman, would you still want to have SRS?". My answer to that question is no, but that is not the answer that a true ts would give.

Anyway, let it lay. It gets us nowhere to argue over such things and certainly does not help pull us together.

I really wish I had been born female, thats just not the way things are though. Doesn't mean I can't wear panties though.

[Sejd]

Dear Sophie
You have put yourself at great exposure and we all benefit from your serious attemt to pass. The thing is that it also comes with a lot of feed back to you. I think you should go lightly on whaever people write about your threads. Just be who your are. You have every right as anyone else to do and say what you want to in this forum. We all love and appreciate your effort. At least I do.
Love
Sejd

[Julogden]

I wish it to remain a great forum for encouragement in all areas of what we do, and if someone announces that they have been out and passed 110%, then It would be nice not to hear in other threads that, they (people who claim to pass) probably did not, they are just deluding themselves, or other comments that would suggest the feeling of passing is over-rated, and to some it is.

This is not meant to be nasty or mean, but as you said, you opened this can of worms, so I'm chipping in my opinion, as I may be one of the people you're complaining about. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please take it that way, as I do NOT dislike you, and have truly enjoyed reading about your experiences.

That said, sounds like it's time for a reality check dear.

In the future, when you post photos or links to your videos, do you just want encouragement, or do you want honest opinions of how passable you are?

If your estimation of your ability to pass is based on people here encouraging you, then you're making a mistake.

As I've said before (maybe in these forums, don't remember), just because you go out in public and aren't hassled doesn't mean you're passing. It most likely means that you're being accepted, which, in my opinion, is better than passing.

I've met lots of CD's/TV's/whatever label you like in my many years of being in contact with the gender community, and the vast majority of us are not passable (definitely includes me too), and that is NOT criticism, simply an honest evaluation.

I certainly applaud you for going out in public, will happily encourage you to continue doing that, and will defend your right to do so, but don't go getting all superior just because you haven't met any rude people yet while out in public.

Carol

[oztallulah]

Sophie, My view on your thoughts:

I too would like to think I would pass, that I could get to the point of being passable, to actually venture forth into the cold wicked world and be seen as a woman. I would revel in it. I would love it to the extreme. It would be 'supreme'

Just one thing is missing - the intestinal fortitude to actually get out there.

We are what we are, and go where we want to go with this need. WE are like water, we will always find our own level.

[Deena]

I can only add that I dress because that is who I am. I present and "they" accept or "they" don't accept. I present myself as a woman because that is part of me. My experience is that "they", the clerks, the TriEss friends, the teenie boppers, the whoever, pretty much accept who I am whether I pass or not. A TriEss gal friend of mine once told me that "emulation is the highest form of flattery" and that really struck a bell with me. So I try to emulate the GG's and bring out that part of me that is femme as best I can. I love the fact that after many years of stiffling my femme side, I can at my old age finally say (however good or bad), that world here is Deena and I love you all.

Hugs, Deena

[Sophie Haworth]

Sophie, don't think that no one feels the same as you as far as passing is concerned. Personaly, before I go out, I walk out into the sun's light and look at my face in a mirror, if I don't see a woman, I don't go out. If I did get stares and people looking at me funny when I was out I would stop going out.

That is just the way it is for me, I don't know how to explain it to anyone. For me, passing is imperative. I have no desire to go out and be seen as a man in womens clothing. I do have a desire to go out and be seen as a woman. It's that simple, and if people think I'm obsessed or over the line because I am that way, well honestly, it does not bother me a bit.

Perhaps Vanya is right in her thinking that I am more ts than tv, probably so, but I really don't think that is why I have need to pass. The gender test would dissagree as well, with questions like, "If you knew that you could never pass as a woman, would you still want to have SRS?". My answer to that question is no, but that is not the answer that a true ts would give.

Anyway, let it lay. It gets us nowhere to argue over such things and certainly does not help pull us together.

I really wish I had been born female, thats just not the way things are though. Doesn't mean I can't wear panties though.

Jennaie. Thanks, this could be Sophie talking, I will check, check and check again before going out, and if I spot a man in the mirror, I will not go out, in fact I will get changed back into male mode and get on with something else in life.

Passing for me is the goal and if I dont, then just wearing womens clothing does little else for me.

Sophie.

[Nigella]

Who are we trying to please, ourselves or the wider world.

Personally I do what pleases me. I wear female clothing 24/7, beit a skirt and blouse or trousers a t shirt. Yesterday I had to pop into town for an hour or so, so what did I wear?

What I was comfortable in, a skirt and blouse, took my handbag, and wore a pair of sandals. Dont wear a wig cos I let my own hair grow but the best for me, and I suppose the worse for some, NO MAKE-UP.

Did I care, not a fig, I was comfortable, and if you look around you a lot of GGs do the same. I passed simple as that, Why? because I was me and that is who I present all the time.

Please yourself and not others.

[Sophie Haworth]

This is not meant to be nasty or mean, but as you said, you opened this can of worms, so I'm chipping in my opinion, as I may be one of the people you're complaining about. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please take it that way, as I do NOT dislike you, and have truly enjoyed reading about your experiences.

That said, sounds like it's time for a reality check dear.

In the future, when you post photos or links to your videos, do you just want encouragement, or do you want honest opinions of how passable you are?

If your estimation of your ability to pass is based on people here encouraging you, then you're making a mistake.

As I've said before (maybe in these forums, don't remember), just because you go out in public and aren't hassled doesn't mean you're passing. It most likely means that you're being accepted, which, in my opinion, is better than passing.

I've met lots of CD's/TV's/whatever label you like in my many years of being in contact with the gender community, and the vast majority of us are not passable (definitely includes me too), and that is NOT criticism, simply an honest evaluation.

I certainly applaud you for going out in public, will happily encourage you to continue doing that, and will defend your right to do so, but don't go getting all superior just because you haven't met any rude people yet while out in public.

Carol

Carol.

Thanks for the post, I am glad to say no one has been nasty, or even unkind in all the replies, and I read this as it is intended.

Please do not think I am getting all superior, I would class myself the least of all of us in this forum, and by no means better than anyone.

If I come across as superior, then I will say I am genuinely sorry. Please do not mistake my excitement when out as anything else but that.

I do not class myself as someone who can go out and pass easily, and you could well be right, maybe I am not passing and have been fortunate not run into any problems, but there is only one problem that worries me, and that is not passing. If I am read, then that is the end of it, the "spell" has been broken and I may not dress again for literally years. My last 4 attempts at passing (as far as I know) have been OK, so that is why I am still dressing and still trying and let me add enjoying it very much.

How can I enjoy going out with such fear? I have no idea.

I do so value comments, the one I dread would go like this "Sophie, sorry, but give up trying to pass, you just cant cut it"

I do read the comments, some are cute and nice, and some constructive and helpful.

In the future, when you post photos or links to your videos, do you just want encouragement, or do you want honest opinions of how passable you are?

If your estimation of your ability to pass is based on people here encouraging you, then you're making a mistake.

The answer to the honest opinions to photos etc would be yes, If people think that I am not passable, then, there are better things in life I can spend my time and of course money on.

I think the next picture posts I will ask, or perhaps I can start saving now for my place in a retirement home for CDs who thought they could pass.

Sophie.

[Calliope]

[...]I almost do not wish to use the word passing now, perhaps change it to convincing?

Who is it you intend to convince?


Yourself?
(Cool - self-actualization is another word for CD!)

Or some dude walkin' down the street?
(Why the hell bother?)

[...] just because you go out in public and aren't hassled doesn't mean you're passing. It most likely means that you're being accepted, which, in my opinion, is better than passing.

[Emphasis added.]

[Julogden]

Carol.

...snipped....

If I am read, then that is the end of it, the "spell" has been broken and I may not dress again for literally years. My last 4 attempts at passing (as far as I know) have been OK, so that is why I am still dressing and still trying and let me add enjoying it very much.

...snipped...

The answer to the honest opinions to photos etc would be yes, If people think that I am not passable, then, there are better things in life I can spend my time and of course money on.

I think the next picture posts I will ask, or perhaps I can start saving now for my place in a retirement home for CDs who thought they could pass.

Sophie.

Hi again Sophie,

Why on earth would you quit dressing if you were to decide that you aren't passable?

You've stated in a past posting that you've been trying to pass in public since you were 13, but have been read as male all of your life when you've gone out, so being read hasn't stopped you from going out again in the past, so why should it now?

Carol

[Sky]

If I am read, then that is the end of it, the "spell" has been broken and I may not dress again for literally years.

Sophie, as I'm sure you read many times in this forum, many beautiful girls have been read -if only because of one silly damn little detail- throughout their lives. And you are going to give up the first time? Pardon my bluntness but if you are so insecure then you are not ready for public exposure. Accept yourself for what you are and then decide if you still want to go out -read or not. And please note I am not the bravest at all: not too long ago I decided to stop going out because I didn't like how I looked (simply too old for this). But I went out for a long time, and still I always knew I could be read at short distance. Very few privileged girls can pass on close up inspection.

I do so value comments, the one I dread would go like this "Sophie, sorry, but give up trying to pass, you just cant cut it"

The answer to the honest opinions to photos etc would be yes, If people think that I am not passable, then, there are better things in life I can spend my time and of course money on.

You do know these two paragraphs are conflicting, right? You want honesty but with a pinch of sugar... I always thought honesty can be brutal...

Again, my humble opinion is, you need less feedback from us (or anybody else for that matter) and more work at building self-confidence. Go out, look at people in their faces, ask where do they keep the low cut thongs -works even better if you are in a bank- and if you're read, so be it. You will survive.

[Sophie Haworth]

Hi again Sophie,

Why on earth would you quit dressing if you were to decide that you aren't passable?

You've stated in a past posting that you've been trying to pass in public since you were 13, but have been read as male all of your life when you've gone out, so being read hasn't stopped you from going out again in the past, so why should it now?

Carol

Day Tripper and Carol.

There are a small number of us who do dress to pass, that is our lot and the main reason for it. For a period of time we are a woman, and if someone sees me for what I really am then the fantasy? is shattered, and perhaps you are correct Day Tripper, I am also trying to convince myself. Its not the clothes, its every tiny detail.

Yet I am still very much a man and have no intention of becoming a woman, some contradiction.

I can see from most of the posts this burning desire to pass is very difficult to comprehend, much in the same way I think that some people find it very difficult to comprehend why a man would wear women's clothing anyway.

I am sure I will never be able to quit dressing, but when I am read, it kills the desire so much so that all the fun goes out of it, it is all very pointless.

I will add here also it is in the times when I have been read and knocked back into male mode that even I find it hard to understand why men dress up as women, but when that desire returns and I make all the attempts to pass again, I understand why, just sheer pleasure that it hard to describe.

After a period of time the desire starts to return, it may just be a girl I see, or a very attractive TV or TS that I spot and off I go again, but the aim is the same, I will try 110% to pass.

Sophie.

[Julogden]

Day Tripper and Carol.

There are a small number of us who do dress to pass, that is our lot and the main reason for it. For a period of time we are a woman, and if someone sees me for what I really am then the fantasy? is shattered, and perhaps you are correct Day Tripper, I am also trying to convince myself. Its not the clothes, its every tiny detail.

Yet I am still very much a man and have no intention of becoming a woman, some contradiction.

I can see from most of the posts this burning desire to pass is very difficult to comprehend, much in the same way I think that some people find it very difficult to comprehend why a man would wear women's clothing anyway.

I am sure I will never be able to quit dressing, but when I am read, it kills the desire so much so that all the fun goes out of it, it is all very pointless.

I will add here also it is in the times when I have been read and knocked back into male mode that even I find it hard to understand why men dress up as women, but when that desire returns and I make all the attempts to pass again, I understand why, just sheer pleasure that it hard to describe.

After a period of time the desire starts to return, it may just be a girl I see, or a very attractive TV or TS that I spot and off I go again, but the aim is the same, I will try 110% to pass.

Sophie.

Hi again,

OK, I think I've finally grasped your point of view.

I sincerely hope that you succeed in doing what makes you happy, but I also sincerely hope that you learn to dress as you like without letting the reactions of strangers control you, that's something that we are all working on doing when we go out in public.

Carol

[Marla S]

I am sure I will never be able to quit dressing, but when I am read, it kills the desire so much so that all the fun goes out of it, it is all very pointless.

I had a similar experience. The day when I really tried hard to become at least passable and I faild in my eyes, has been the day when I quitted CDing for 2 or 3 years, hated myself, and thought how silly it is for a man to wear women's labeled clothes.
Finally I came to the conclusion that the fun of it is being myself and not to mimic an image I expect to be accepted by the society.
Since I am quite happy with my CDing because I don't have to prove anybody anything and feel why a male like me likes dressing.
Just a Story.

[Tina Dixon]

I know I have been trying to send the word have fun a lot lattly but I know some are trying to be a woman and not just a dresser, my self I dress for fun but it did consume me at one time where I thought I might be more than a dresser, would I pass? Probley not, I'm way to big, people look at women that are 6 foot 3 in flats, but when I dress I do try my best with make up and looks and if you go out in the world dressed yes you need to pass as best as possible so it is a must, but if your in the closet or like some in the garage it's not a big deal, so do your best and try and pass.

[Calliope]

There are a small number of us who do dress to pass, that is our lot and the main reason for it.

No disrespect Sophie, but what I cannot wrap my head around is that your self-actualization requires the participation of everyone on the street. I mean, society (much of which is comprised of idiots) has you in its grip and, even though I don't really know you, I'd just love to see you sprout your wings and fly above the crowd.

[Janailene]

When I was a teenager I could pass easily. Now it is much more difficult.