Passing Bashing, will it end soon?

[Sophie Haworth]

Ok, I am starting to get a little upset.

Just lately passing seems to be getting a bashing.

I am obviously not normal.

Am I wrong to want to look as much like a woman as possible?

It would seem that I am not a crossdresser, I am something else, something different, most of the time I am a man, but some of the time I go all out to be female.

I know, I am not a crossdresser, I am a transvestite!!!

Perhaps that is the difference, crossdressers seem to be content to be seen by others as men with wigs and dresses on. Fine I have no problem with that at all, but please stop criticising those who whether we can or not try to look like a woman as much as possible.

A lot of people have offered me great encouragement here in this forum and I am immensely grateful for all the kind things said in the past about my photos and stories of going out.

I am beginning to feel now that I am in a minority within this group, perhaps I need to join a transvestite forum, you know the ones who like to look as much like a woman as they can and are disappointed when they look like blokes with lipstick on.

I think we should continue to support each other 100%, and not splitting those who wish to try to pass and those for whom it does not really matter into two types.

It is true that those of us who go out to try to pass get a great deal of excitement from it and and try to pass on that excitement to you here in this forum. Call it exuberance.

When I tell you my stories, they are not bragging stories, I am not saying that I am better than anyone else here, if you read them they are stories of planning, fear, panic, and other things that we go through when out in the general public dressed, and also they are stories that you kindly respond to with tips and helpful advice.

I dress to pass and always have done.

Maybe one day trying to look as much like a woman as possible will make a comeback.

Sophie Howarth.

[pinkshelly]

I too try to pass as well as possible, and try to as often as possible. I don't know where this comes from, is this something that has come up with us. If it is thats very said. I hope I haven't done this to anyone. I love ya all.
Huggs, Shelly.

[Byllie]

I think the issue here is not that trying to pass is a bad thing, rather that it is not required to be a crossdresser. As I see it, crossdressing is a continuum, from those that simply want to wear panties occasionally, to those who wish to be female 24/7. It's all nomeclature, after all, all labels that folks use to make it easier for others.

But labels can be misleading. That's like saying all Democrats think exactly alike or all Republicans follow George Bush. It's not that simple.

So I suggest you relax, and simply be yourself, and don't worry about the labels, or what to call yourself. Just be you, whatever that is, and enjoy.

[Jolene]

Hi Sophie.
As long as you enjoy what you do that is the important thing. Myself along with many others I think would love to be able to pass but know we can't. It is fun to read about the experences of you and the others who can. To sort of live it with you...................... Jolene

[Lilith Moon]

I think the consensus seems to be that passing is good but not essential.

[Holly]

Sophie, perhaps it is not so much "passing bashing" as it is coming to a realization that passing is not necessarily the goal. I'm with you in that when I dress, I want to look my very best. I just think it's not healthy for me to depend on what others think of my looks (passing) as a measure of my happiness. The only scrutiny I need to pass is my own in the mirror. I honestly can't say that I've picked up on any hostility toward those of us who enjoy the full experience of transforming into T-Girls, and like you, I've had an enormous amount of support here (you included). Just keep doing what makes you happy, Sophie... you've got a lot going for you.

[Kimberly]

As a perpetrator of "passing bashing" I just wanna defend my position.

I just wanted to make clear to some members, from some of my few experiences, that they may believe they pass when actually it's a different matter.

I'm not trying to degrade your expression in any way - but passing has conflicts with some of the issues I address when thinking about my crossdressing. Think of this, for instance: by crossdressing fully as female, and wanting to be considered a true female for any period of time, aren't we just confirming and adhearing to the cisgender rules of the other gender?? So, this surely degrades our position on gender bending, doesn't it? If we say, "why should I be a man?? I don't want to wear shirts... I don't want to have to be macho... etc etc." then presenting as women is confirming another set of rules which are equally, if not more, oppressive to women?

If you want this - then I do not wish to stop you, or change your mind about that. What is good, is discussion on this - and remember this forum carries a broad spectrum of dressers. I myself, enjoy myself emulating and presenting as female. I just think "passing" is used way too much. "Passing" to many means they can present as female and get away with it. (Bad phrasing, I know... it's 1:25am.) The reality could well be, and probably is, that the person who you thought ignored you/considered you female couldn't care less what you're presenting as today.

Basically: however you want to present, is fine by me - as long as you're enjoying yourself. But I appeal - use the word "passing" sparingly. I just think, on here, too much emphasis to be able to pass has been put on the members - from exposure to it. I know it got me thinking, but I just sit, wait and try to work out a middle way.

I just wanna dress and look good. Too much pressure to "pass" can be bad for members. xx

[Angie G]

Hi Sophie I'd never baash some one for trying to pass
if they can or can't if what you are doiny makes you happy go for it ,
I can't pass so I don't try if you can and do good for you you go girl I'm happy for you
Angie

[Calliope]

Perhaps that is the difference, crossdressers seem to be content to be seen by others as men with wigs and dresses on.

It's language like that which sounds catty.

Posting videos of yourself 'passing' does seem like boasting 'Look how good I look - and (unlike you) I can prove it.'

Maybe I've a guilty conscience - I mention my hair waay too often - and hearing of (and seeing) your latest conquests reminds me that biology deals everyone a different deck of cards.

A bit more sensitivity on my part is called for.

And, if I may say as much, a bit more for you, too.

[GypsyKaren]

I don't have a clue what you're talking about, passing bashing? I read everything that's posted here and I don't see it, and I really don't recall many "happy to be a man in a wig" posts either. What I do see is different opinions on the subject, such as it's okay to go out even if you don't look like a 100% GG, which I have to truthfully say that the vast majority of us don't. Should I stay in because I don't look like Julia Roberts?

Karen

[Sherlyn]

I honestly ..don't see where the passing bashing is being done ..and I've read thru the threads directly related to this thread ..I've even see that my name was mentioned ...personally I dont come on here and rave about going out using the" I PASSED PHRASE"...passing ..or not....my personal view to this thread Sophie is ..it seems like your not quite comfortable yet with yourself ..when out ..otherwise none of this what you call passing bashing should bother you ...let it go ...it will only negate your feelings ....specially when to some.. as I noted in the other thread ..make a joke of it

[Yes I am]

I recently watched a few documentaries about the legendary transvestite filmmaker, Edward D. Wood Jr., and I was interested to learn that during the filming of "Glen or Glenda" the make-up guy had a wig Ed refused to wear in the film. Because it actually made him look pretty good. As it was told, Ed wanted to look like a real transvestite in the film (which he was), not "prettied up" for the big screen. I think that sentiment is the same for some of us who scorn "passing," in that we're striving for something a little more real. Because when you break it down, really, mtf crossdressers are "guys in dresses," and there's nothing wrong with that at all.

[renee k]

Sophie, perhaps it is not so much "passing bashing" as it is coming to a realization that passing is not necessarily the goal. I'm with you in that when I dress, I want to look my very best. I just think it's not healthy for me to depend on what others think of my looks (passing) as a measure of my happiness. The only scrutiny I need to pass is my own in the mirror. I honestly can't say that I've picked up on any hostility toward those of us who enjoy the full experience of transforming into T-Girls, and like you, I've had an enormous amount of support here (you included). Just keep doing what makes you happy, Sophie... you've got a lot going for you.

Hi Sophie, I totally agree with Holly. I too want to look my best when I go out and I'm my own worst critic when it comes to passing by the mirror. You have a wonderful female presentation. And as Holly stated "Just keep doing what makes you happy" That's all that counts.

Huggs, Renee

[RikkiOfLA]

I too am one of those who tries to look like a woman when I go out dressed enfemme. And that's been 24/7 for the past few years. But please note that I say "tries." Do I succeed? I don't think I do all the time. But at the same time, I most of the time manage to look like a real person. Not a clown, not a faker, not trying to get noticed by everyone. Just a real person. Enough like a woman that people don't point, snicker, or laugh.

How do I accomplish that? I'm not beautiful. I'm not young--I'm in my 50s and I look my age. Mostly it's attitude. I know how to quiet teenagers with a matronly look of authority. And if that doesn't work, I've watched GGs deal with drunks, hecklers, and so on. So if anyone wants to mess with me, he won't be sure he's not messing with some ugly older woman. And the public is merciless on men who try that, believe me! And it works. I had my purse snatched once, and over a dozen people came to my help, in various ways. Men chased the perp down the street, even jumping off a construction scaffold to join the chase. Women called the police on their cell phones and even invited me over to their homes after the chase was over to calm down. The perp finally gave up and threw my purse in the street, and I retrieved everything. People can be wonderful if you let them.

At the same time, I know that some people (according to them) will never pass. And some don't want to. Makes no difference to me. I'm not ashamed to be seen in public with any of my TG sisters and brothers--gender benders, drag queens, crossdressers, transvestites, transsexuals, whatever. People are people. And everyone deserves respect. So I don't bash anyone for trying to pass, or not trying to pass, or trying not to pass.

Rikki

[Kaitlyn Michele]

feeling like a man in a dress doesnt do it for me...

i want to feel like a gg...its a fantasy but thats what does it for me

and that's why "passing" matters..but in my mind as iv'e said before passing is just being accepted...if anybody thinks i'm a gg then they are not paying alot of attention...i often think that if people look at me and think thats a "transsexual" then thats the best i can hope for...in fact i guess i hope for that because thats about the best i can do.. not even sure that makes sense

i think sophie you are a bit overreacting to some comments but its all good...some girls are jealous and some girls are supportive and some are both!!!...just enjoy and keep posting...i think your vids and posts are great...

michele

[JenniferMint]

I try to look like an attractive young woman when I dress. According to hotornot.com, I rate a 6.9 and are hotter than 65% of all women!

It'd be grand if I could get my rating up to 8.0. ^.^ (I'm considering facial feminization surgery in the future)

[Jennaie]

To some, passing is foremost for them. We do not have to question why. For some, passing is not important at all. We do not have to question why.

I admire any person who has the ability to express themselves the way they want to. I admire the heck out of Buffalo Bill, who dresses as he pleases with a full beard covering his face. I equally admire the cd who goes out and comes home without a single instance of feeling that they were clocked as a man in womens clothing.

When I see a girl who has a video of herself, I don't think she is bragging at all. I think she is asking for honest opinions. She is trying to improve herself and this is her help line.

There is no need to feel like anyone here is trying to one up anyone else. If passing is important to you, I understand and admire that, if it's not, I understand and admire that too.

There is no need for those who believe they pass to think that they are above anyone else. If someone does, well, that is a personal problem that is theirs to deal with, not mine.

I support anyone here who dresses, period.

[Deborah]

In my opinion there are girls here who i wouldn't give a second look at on the street. On the other hand there are some who i would smile that knowing smile and only wish i could come up to and chat together.
So whether you pass or not doesn't really matter to me. Look your best and have fun with it

[GG Vanya]

To some, passing is foremost for them. We do not have to question why. For some, passing is not important at all. We do not have to question why.

I admire any person who has the ability to express themselves the way they want to. I admire the heck out of Buffalo Bill, who dresses as he pleases with a full beard covering his face. I equally admire the cd who goes out and comes home without a single instance of feeling that they were clocked as a man in womens clothing.

When I see a girl who has a video of herself, I don't think she is bragging at all. I think she is asking for honest opinions. She is trying to improve herself and this is her help line.
There is no need to feel like anyone here is trying to one up anyone else. If passing is important to you, I understand and admire that, if it's not, I understand and admire that too.

There is no need for those who believe they pass to think that they are above anyone else. If someone does, well, that is a personal problem that is theirs to deal with, not mine.

I support anyone here who dresses, period.

Jennaie,

This brings up another point. In the picture forum, I don't believe "everyone" wants an honest opinion or critique. I also don't believe the responses which are given are totally honest.

Yes, I believe in encouraging those who have self doubt. What I don't think is good, is when someone posts a picture and asks "what do you think", and everyone lays on the "you go girl"s thick and heavy, and says how great they look, when in all honesty this person could use some constructive criticism. It's my opinion it's a disservice to the person to mislead them into believing they are totally passable, look absolutely great, etc.

I don't make many comments in that section, because of the simple fact that I've yet to figure out *how* to give pointers without coming across as being negatively critical. I've seen a few I think look fantastic, and those I've PM'd privately with my opinion. When I see something that is distinctly femme, such as an accessory, I'll openly comment on that.

For the most part, commenting on passable or no is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation on either side.

I also made a post in the lounge once, about those trying to pass and those simply presenting themselves in the manner with which they feel most comfortable. I mentioned that GG's *perhaps* are more receptive to those who don't try to totally pass, because there isn't the "deceit" factor~trying to pass as something/someone you are not. NO, this is not condemnation! It's simply an observation from my side of the stands~the one where the home team fans sit.

[Melanie]

I also dress to pass as completely as I can,but as I stated in another post I am a little out of practice in comparison to my frequent outings in the late 90's and early 2001.
I have encountered some pretty vain T girls,but most I have met were warm and civil to all they mingled with including me.Overall it's been pretty positive.
I also am the type as others had stated above that will talk to anyone passable or non- passable.I believe we are all sisters,some need help/advice to become more passable and others don't desire to completely pass,it's all an individual choice.
We are all sisters with one thing in common , we ALL love to dress do we not?
and that in itself makes us unique to many other minority groups on the fringes of society.

Love to all sisters,
Melanie

[angelfire]

My opinion is, if you can pass, and want to pass, go for it. I wish I could go out and pass, but that just isn't realistic without changing myself in ways I would rather not change. I don't try because I know I can't pull it off. Maybe when I lose more weight I will try, but at this point I want to be a thin, or at least muscular girl, and not overweight in the bad way.

On the other hand, if you don't want to pass, thats fine too. Doesn't matter, to each their own. Just know whatever you do here, you will always have everyone's support(unless you are an axe murderer or the like).

[Jennaie]

Vanya:

If I see a girl who wants an honest opinion and I see things that I think she can do to make her look better, I tell her. Sometimes in private, sometimes in the forums. I am not going to tell someone they look great if I don't believe it.

I have never had any person in these forums send me a message telling me that they did not appreciate my comments and suggestions about how they might improve their look.

In the case of a certain video that was recently posted, I was honest and she replied with an honest sense of gratitude for the suggestions that I made.

If others here want to extend compliments that are unfounded, well, to me, thats not being very helpful. I try to follow the rule, if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing, but there is nothing wrong with saying, It is obvious that you have worked hard on this, but I think you can do better, and here are my suggestions.

[Satrana]

I used to believe in the CD dogma that passing was the be-all, end-all then I realized that was not true for myself. I also realized that passing was actually about deceiving others which in the long run is probably not a healthy thing to do. Of course I can appreciate the art in perfecting an image and behaviour and the buzz you get by actually passing in public but I think for most CDs, we have learned that crossdressing is much, much more than passing, that crossdressing is a way of life reflecting our personalties. As such I think those who solely focus on passing are missing the bigger picture.

I have no problems with anyone attempting to pass, it is something we all try to do but I believe the crossdressing community is maturing as it comes out of the closet and there is a better appreciation of the other aspects in which crossdressing touches our lives.

[Billijo49504]

Hi, as I've said before, the mirror lies for me. So that is why I use a camera to take a picture, to view later. Then I can look at it later to evaluate it, as passing or not. As someone else said, we can be our own worst enemy. Wheather you pass or not, or care if you are, the important part is if you are happy with who you are....BJ

[Khriss]

..yeah..reality sucks ! ...but go to K Mart any given day and "girls" posting this site often far exceed " femme' " representations of public presentation of the "THE" female "ideal" .. I have'nt bumped into Audry Hepburn..either gender.. lately (ever) - nor am I expecting to...oh..and..
I'd still love to "pass" ..(while I'm 6'4" tall and reality kicks in too ...eh ?)
xx"K"