She said "Quit shaving your legs & start acting like a man"

[Paula A]

OK girls I need your advice, I think its going to start to get ugly at my house.

Some of you know that I have not told my wife "J" about Paula yet and I am/was..Im not sure, to tell her after the hollidays that her husband for 16-years has been a crossdresser for 30 years. I have been chicken, should I tell her and "be free" I hope and possibly end the realationship with my wife and mother of my two boys who I love and adore more than anything, including dressing (I think) or keep it a secret. Do I risk what I have for what could be, just to be able to dress around the house and be me and chance loosing everything?

I wonder because of the comments she has been making lately.
"I wish you act like a god***m man and quit shaving you legs, first its your legs and now your chest." :mad: (just the top of it where it shows,)

"I'm not a lesbian you know!" :mad:

"GOOD NIGHT PAULA, :mad: we could of had sex but your leggs are shaven and smooth"

Some days I think I could tell her and she'll understand other days I think she'll say OK-Fine you be that way and I'll find another MAN and toss my nylon covered butt out.

Oh yeah and this too, "You know you are so hard to buy stuff to put in your stocking I almost bought you nylons and nail polish, nail files and your own razors, Im sick and tired of you using all of my stuff you know, my hair gel and hair spray!"

I almost said "I wish you had, I wear a size C" but I didn't.
My wife really gets depressed and miserable around the hollidays and she can act tough and bitchy one minute and sweet and cudly the next. sorry to ramble on. On Friday I was home, the office was closed, I locked my self in the basement to wrap presents, the whole family is up stairs and I got out a nice skirt and heels to wear while a wrapped presents - which I enjoyed BTW .
I was rewsolved to tell her after the holidays were over when she will be feeling better, more herself, but after her comments I don't know what to do, I'm so confused.

[Ashleigh]

Paula, I understand what you are going through. I really do. Just remember though, your wife is your first concern. Your family is number one. I suggest not doing anything at this point that would jeapardize your relationship with her. She is the one who you gave your vows to honor and cherish, etc.

[Paula A]

Ashley;
Exactly and that is why I am having such a hard time, because they are number one but I have these feelings to want to be me at the same time.

[Rachel_740]

I have been chicken, should I tell her and "be free" I hope and possibly end the realationship with my wife and mother of my two boys who I love and adore more than anything, including dressing (I think) or keep it a secret.

Paula,

I think you have answered your own question here in your reference to how much you love your boys.

You are obviously torn between your feelings for your wife & family and your need to be Paula and so far your wife & family have won, but it sounds like your wife may strongly suspect (at best) and know about Paula (at worst), with her comments about your shaving.

I can't really advise you on what to do, but if you haven't any ideas which way your wife would go if you tell her, I think I would probably keep Paula a secret, and probably even back off on the shaving for a while to let things calm down a little. In the mean time you could (maybe) take her clothes shopping and joke with her that this or that would or wouldn't suit you (obviously girlie clothes), see what her response is and maybe that things further, depending on her replies.

Hope this might give you some food for thought.

Rachel

[DonnaT]

I don't know Paula. Sounds like a sticky situation. You've managed to keep it underwraps for so long, and still shave your body. My wife is the same way, but I have only shaved once recently, and don't care for having to do it so often. However, the mustache isn't going to be grown back, nor is the underarm hair.

Now, if I wanted to keep my body shaven, the first thing I would've done is show her that there a lot of men that shave completely. Athletes, body builders, actors (a number hate having hairy chests) such as Arnold S..

Ask her how a hairy body would make you more manly, other than being more hairy. What does she find appealing in hair?

It is your body and if you are more comfortable shaven then I don't understand why you should have to forfit your comfort. Plus body hair is ugly period.

On the CDing issue I guess I would suggest feeling her out very slowly. Ask questions such as "What if" "What would you do" etc. She'll probably ask if you are trying to tell her something, but you can fluff it off as being related to the topic of shaving, and that she brought it up first. And that brings up a question in my mind, I wonder if she has any idea that you like to CD. She may be trying to press your buttons so you'll admit it, but why she would want you to admit is another question. So, like I said, feel her out slowly.

[Donna Louise]

Hon

All I can do it is tell you what happened to me. We were married for over 20 years. Our daughter was still living at home (20+). We had our grandson living with us too. I had to get trashed drunk one night in order to tell her. My bigest fear, as I suppose your is, was that I would loose everything. She knew that I had been wearing ladies things (undies prior to me coming out to her). It started with my knees and cold. She suggested that I wear pantyhose under my clothes to help keep my knees warm. Well one thing lead to another.

Before I came out to her, I was out to sea, she put on one of my sport coats and found a bra in it. I had the hardest time telling her that it was mine and not a keepsake from some affair. She never found my small makeup kit or bad wig I had.

Any way I digress. I got trashed knowing that that was the only way I could tell her. I finally told her as the tears flowed. The first thing she asked me is "are you gay". This is my wife of 20 years! I had to try my best to explain that I was not gay and that this had been part of my life long before I had ever met her. She tried to understand but really I don't think she did at the time. I believe that she felt as if her security were threatened by this announcement.

It still took about 4 months before I ever let her see me dressed. When I did she told me my makeup was bad, my wig was a piece of crap and the dress made me look to old.

That was about 5 years ago. We have sort of come to terms with it. I am allowed to dress when there is no one home. I am not allowed out of the house for fear that the neighbors might see me. I keep my legs, underarms and chest shaved. I have 6 wigs which she helped me pick some. I have tons of girl clothes and shoes.

In my case things sort of worked out. When she is out of town I do go out of the house. Never in anywhere. Usually just a short drive or something like that.

I cannot make a judgement in your case as each is different as each person is different. This is something that you must decide.

What is it worth to you?
Are you willing to risk not seeing your sons again?
Is she the sort to pack her stuff and leave?

I do not have the answer you are looking for. No one else may have it either. You have to look deep inside yourself and decide.

Best of luck
Donna Louise

[kally]

First off I would like to say how sorry I am to here about your situation.When I told my wife about kally she pretty much said the same things.So I backed off for a while and just started dropping sublte hints until she just came out and asked me about it.Now she is accepting but not yet comfortable all the time .It may help or may not time will only tell.Hope everything works out for the best.


BEST OF LUCK

KALLY

[maryjanecapri]

not making any judgments at all (i don't know your full story). however...it sounds like to me the real question you have to answer is this: do you continue to hide a very large aspect of yourself from someone you love (hoping they'll never find out and you can continue as you are) or do you come clean and hope everything resolves.

either way you're in a sticky situation. if it were me, i'd go with the honest approach.

the best of luck to you. i'm sure you'll make the right choice for you and your loved ones.

[JoannaDees]

Hon

All I can do it is tell you what happened to me. We were married for over 20 years. Our daughter was still living at home (20+). We had our grandson living with us too. I had to get trashed drunk one night in order to tell her. My bigest fear, as I suppose your is, was that I would loose everything. She knew that I had been wearing ladies things (undies prior to me coming out to her). It started with my knees and cold. She suggested that I wear pantyhose under my clothes to help keep my knees warm. Well one thing lead to another.

Before I came out to her, I was out to sea, she put on one of my sport coats and found a bra in it. I had the hardest time telling her that it was mine and not a keepsake from some affair. She never found my small makeup kit or bad wig I had.

Any way I digress. I got trashed knowing that that was the only way I could tell her. I finally told her as the tears flowed. The first thing she asked me is "are you gay". This is my wife of 20 years! I had to try my best to explain that I was not gay and that this had been part of my life long before I had ever met her. She tried to understand but really I don't think she did at the time. I believe that she felt as if her security were threatened by this announcement.

It still took about 4 months before I ever let her see me dressed. When I did she told me my makeup was bad, my wig was a piece of crap and the dress made me look to old.

That was about 5 years ago. We have sort of come to terms with it. I am allowed to dress when there is no one home. I am not allowed out of the house for fear that the neighbors might see me. I keep my legs, underarms and chest shaved. I have 6 wigs which she helped me pick some. I have tons of girl clothes and shoes.

In my case things sort of worked out. When she is out of town I do go out of the house. Never in anywhere. Usually just a short drive or something like that.

I cannot make a judgement in your case as each is different as each person is different. This is something that you must decide.

What is it worth to you?
Are you willing to risk not seeing your sons again?
Is she the sort to pack her stuff and leave?

I do not have the answer you are looking for. No one else may have it either. You have to look deep inside yourself and decide.

Best of luck
Donna Louise

You are pretty confused, and you are confusing me. This post is not at all in the same character as the "love struck school girl" where you have a man on the side who wants to whisk you away.

[JoannaDees]

I infer from your post that things are not always happy in paradise? If not, forget the cross dressing issue, and concentrate on the other. And in the end, you don't have to stay married to maintain a healthy family, love your children, and so on. But, it does take both parties to do that.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Paula, my honest opinion is that on some level she already knows. Now, does this mean you should tell her? I dunno. It's a very personal decision you have to make. However, the comments she's making are like the wife who suspects her husband cheating (and, btw, I'm not saying that's what you're doing at all), who chides and rides him for being gone and having lipstick on his collar. Do you know what I"m saying?

G'luck grrl!

hugs
kew

[Stephanie Brooks]

Hi Paula!

Geez, that's a tough one.

What is the benefit of telling her? What's the cost of not doing so? Remember too there's a cost in telling her and a benefit in not telling. In either case, what are you likely to lose? What are you willing to lose?

The questions are rhetorical, though ones you need to answer.

I wish I had the magical answer, but I don't. There isn't one. Tell her, and you risk losing her and your boys. Don't tell her, and you lose part of yourself. The GGs here are positive toward their crossdressing mates. I have a girl buddy Blade who thinks Stephanie is cool! My wife however is absolutely hostile toward Stephanie. She's threatened sexually by Stephanie and hates that part of me. "I only hate that part of you!" There's good love, huh?

If your wife were playing dressup doll with you, I'd say go for it! I wouldn't need to say it, however, as it would probably happen naturally. From what you said, she's already acting with some frustration, fear, and hostility, and that's not a good sign.

If it were me, I wouldn't be inclined to say anything without accounting for your wife's latest reactions and the possible outcomes of telling her.

Good luck, you'll need it.

*HUGS*

[KewTnCurvy GG]

Hon

All I can do it is tell you what happened to me. We were married for over 20 years. Our daughter was still living at home (20+). We had our grandson living with us too. I had to get trashed drunk one night in order to tell her. My bigest fear, as I suppose your is, was that I would loose everything. She knew that I had been wearing ladies things (undies prior to me coming out to her). It started with my knees and cold. She suggested that I wear pantyhose under my clothes to help keep my knees warm. Well one thing lead to another.

Before I came out to her, I was out to sea, she put on one of my sport coats and found a bra in it. I had the hardest time telling her that it was mine and not a keepsake from some affair. She never found my small makeup kit or bad wig I had.

Any way I digress. I got trashed knowing that that was the only way I could tell her. I finally told her as the tears flowed. The first thing she asked me is "are you gay". This is my wife of 20 years! I had to try my best to explain that I was not gay and that this had been part of my life long before I had ever met her. She tried to understand but really I don't think she did at the time. I believe that she felt as if her security were threatened by this announcement.

It still took about 4 months before I ever let her see me dressed. When I did she told me my makeup was bad, my wig was a piece of crap and the dress made me look to old.

That was about 5 years ago. We have sort of come to terms with it. I am allowed to dress when there is no one home. I am not allowed out of the house for fear that the neighbors might see me. I keep my legs, underarms and chest shaved. I have 6 wigs which she helped me pick some. I have tons of girl clothes and shoes.

In my case things sort of worked out. When she is out of town I do go out of the house. Never in anywhere. Usually just a short drive or something like that.

I cannot make a judgement in your case as each is different as each person is different. This is something that you must decide.

What is it worth to you?
Are you willing to risk not seeing your sons again?
Is she the sort to pack her stuff and leave?

I do not have the answer you are looking for. No one else may have it either. You have to look deep inside yourself and decide.

Best of luck
Donna Louise

hugs kew

[barbiecd]

Paula, it's hard to know when the time is right. I did it a little bit at a time. It is a very personal thing to tell obviously and it would be wrong to give advise about when the "right time" is exactly. I will say this if you do it write she will become somewhat supportive if you pull it off correctly. She has got to know that you are not gay nor wanting a "change" that you still love her and she is the most important thing in your life.
Good luck,
Barbie

[kimmjacoby]

paula,
from reading your post, it sounds to me that she "thinks" she knows. in the long run, she will react on what she "thinks" she knows. this means she will make an uninformed decision. the alternative is to educate her on the facts. as hard as this might be for you to do, it might save the relationship, or at least make it possible for an amicable seperation.

hugs,
kimm

[Paula A]

Thanks everyone for the support and advice its got me thinking. I built my own boat and now I have to float it.

However, the comments she's making are like the wife who suspects her husband cheating (and, btw, I'm not saying that's what you're doing at all), who chides and rides him for being gone and having lipstick on his collar.

Kew;
I don't want her to think that I'm cheating, or gay or that I'm not committed to her and our family. They are number one, I think that is why I must tell her so she doesn't think I'm running around with another girl (or guy) but that a part of me is the other girl. maybe she'll be mad at me for being a CDer since, well, for a long as I can remember and be relieved that I'm not gay or cheating on her. I know she'll be upset and angry for keeping a secrete for so long but I think your right, in some way I bet she know or at least has her suspicions.

Stephanie;
I was hoping for some mathamatical equation to rationalize the all of the probailities of the outcome based upon the benefits of telling her as opposed to the cost occured by losses. LOL thanks - you mathmaticians crack me up.

If I tell her then she knows that Im not running around and if she hates it and is mad at me I will have to put Paula back in a box. we all know that we can not hide who we are but she is still the number one woman in our relationship.

Thanks for all the HUGS.

[Rachel_740]

Paula,

How about E=mc^2

Rachel

[Paula A]

Raachel;
but that only works for relatives. LOL.

[Ashleigh]

Paula, I admire you and your convictions. I sincerely hope and wish things go very well whatever you decide.

[paulaN]

I think you're on the right track tell her. for better of for worse.

[Kaye_martin]

Paula: There's nothing wrong in dressing femme, after all I'm sure your wife wears pants every now and then (mine for sure does, more now than then LOL). It's not like you've committed some horrendous crime, there are thousands of people like you and me (us) 'out there' ..... it's just a part of human sexuality. Break it gently to her, see if you can get your wife to check this forum out, it may help her. I 'came out' to my wife about 10 years ago, now I often sit around the house in a skirt and she accepts it OK.

Hope everything works out for you both.

Hugs,
Kaye_martin

[Rikki]

Paula,
I wish you all the luck we can muster up. I know that you will make the right choice, so just go easy. If she can't understand crossdressing, ask her why she does, It doesn't make you any less a man, just by wearing a dress, like it doesn't make her any less a woman wearing jeans and t-shirt. See if you can compromise, it has always been a part a you and no matter how hard you have tried to ignore it and get a way from it, it will always be a part a you. I wish there were some magic words that we could offer you that would make it all right, but you know better, but you can rest asure, we are here for you and praying that all goes well.

Rikki

[Vickie-CD]

I wish you luck on this, perhaps a compromise can be made. I really believe in any relationship, both parties have to be able to give a little here and there.
Wishing you the Best,
Vickie

[JennyCA]

Paula,

I feel for all aspect of what you are going through. Our our mates, when angry, sure know how to target those areas most sensitive to us with daggers. Hang in there. What follows below ended up being a bit long. It finds heart felt and enthusiastic expression from a similar situation: describing how it is on the other side for me, details a conversation I wish I had initiated (got to love 20-20 hindsight), and states a resolve to start new relationships differently.

I too have two children (boys) that I cherish more than anything, as you do yours. I am now divorced and have joint custody of the boys. People that see me with them have remarked what a good father I am to then. I am able to be a strong, masculine dad, with loving disciline, and also consistently nurturing and affectionate. My five year old recently came up with this one, as only those with a young heart can: "dad I love you 5 times infinity, and not only that, I just really, really like you". Captures the heart and soul. I state this to relate with you on strong feeling expressed, and fear of loss through pending choices being pressed through conflict, and not for any other purpose. However, the thread of truth I am attempting to emote here: guess where this combination of feminine and masculine parenting skills comes from? The outer expression (dressing feminine) comes from inner qualities that make us great parents and mates to our significant others, many times.

I read that straight cds are usually very popular with women, and in committed relationships. Have our mates not noted they appreciate the ways we express ourselves, sustain intimacy with them (in ways females appreciate), and communicate emotions. They love us because "men" like these are uncommon, hard to find, and appreciated. Uncommon qualities for the men seen as "real men" in our culture.

If I could have a conversation with my mate of many years, somehow I would like it to express in the following manner (these are all things I have actually done, but, no, I am not expressing perfection or even close, for many times I have been the opposite):

"Sweetheart, you have been expressing some disdain for behaviors you do not feel comfortable with, nor appropriate, for a man to do. I appreciate your concern, but at the same time it hurts my feelings with the way communicated. Out of a true desire to build a bridge of understanding, I would like to connect these disliked behaviors with ones valued by you, I believe. Ones with no connection previously made, most likely. It may open the door to continued conversation, in which I will listen in kind too, without interjection. Please show me the same as I express things difficult to convey, long bound inside, yet longing expression.

You know the guy that gave you a $100 and asked that you use it to buy a dress that you really like.

The one that went out on a whim and purchased a dress for you last summer, one that fit your style, and you still wear often to this day.

How you expressed thankfulness that I have continued to give you cards, flowers, or a well-written poem of expressed love and kinship, long after winning your love and affection. How you noted that all previous men seem to forget these things soon after attaining you. "Sustained romantic expression" you called it.

How I don't purposely fart and belch with impugnity as men from your past did and you hated.

The one you do not need to tell what to get you for Christmas or other holidays, for you love our common sense of taste and style, and sensitivity to what you will like.

The one that is able to give and receive non-sexual touching.

The one that is able to express and receive emotions expressed, good and bad, and talk at the intimate level you need to feel good about the relationship.

The one that esteems you as his equal and values your solutions and opinions, sometimes leading, sometimes following.

The one that admits he is wrong, and sees his character defects.

Is able to listen, and has a strong tuition of what you might need, or be feeling.

Makes a great living in the marketplace as a man with uncommon gut instincts and sensitivity, people skills, and strong desire to provide well, but defies his definition as a man through what he does for a living.

The one that is able to have silly fun and childlike play with our children, and you. That is not afraid to look foolish, or laugh at himself.

The one that disciplines our children in a firm and loving manner, and does not shame our boys into not expressing their emotions, nor would ever tell them that "boys don't cry".

The one that adores you for all your feminine expressions: how you look, what you wear, how you smell, your gentleness, and soft spirit.

Notices what you are wearing and its nuances.

This is also that MAN that from a very early age has not felt a synronicity with how this society expects a young boy, an adolescent, and then a man, to behave and dress. For many men like me, good fathers and mates I believe, the call to feel more complete through dressing feminine goes deep and back to early childhood, and never leaves. To accept and try to understand this quality in me is important, and critical. It may require a reevaluation of what a "real man" is (hairy?). Can you be open to developing a newer definition, one uncommon to our society? The qualities expressed above are closely bound to the ones objected to. I would like you to see the connection, and thus view the objected to behaviors in a new light. I feel unable, and frankly unwilling, to divorce the two. This would leave me feeling fractured and incomplete. It goes that deep. Stepping out of the box, although not without trepidation, can have uncommon lasting reward for us both, and our children.

These things being said, would you be willing to move towards a deeper understanding of me, one that I have longed to express. For so long, I have been, and still am, fearful of rejection of something very deep in my soul, from as early on as I can remember. Especially by the one I love so much, and for so long"

Anyway, the conversation above is not in any way a recommendation, just a statement of what I might say if given a second chance, and now with a bit more experience, much pain, and hopefully, a modicum of wisdom attained.

My long-term married relationship with the mother of my boys did not cesate as a direct result of my not having a discussion like this, or from cross dressing, but the ramifications of living in such duality must have been sensed, hindering levels of intimacy and transparency sought by most in an intimate relationship.

I now have a chance at a new start, and can set groundwork in new relationships for a conversation of similar context. I am newly going out with a kind, sensual, beautiful loving woman who loves to dress (herself, not me, yet! lol), and is all girl. I recently bought a video about man-woman full body shaving for sensual fun, and how this has been practiced in cultures throughout history. She got into it, and we enjoyed two fully-shaved bodies together. (I am now shaved and no ones is telling me, "real men don't shave their legs" for once). Mutual softness enjoyed, making our contrasting hardness and softness in intimacy more pronounced and enjoyed. I venture to say, I am probably the first man in her life to suggest and do this with her. We both enjoyed to the fullest, and removed conceived notions of female (soft and hairless) and male (hard and hairly) as definitions of our relationship. I am now completely smooth and hairless, except for a small tuft of pubic hair shaped in a "V". It is a first for me, due to being with someone for so long that would surely have derided me in a similar fashion as your mate. (Note: I always appreciated the "V" when well-kept females I knew coiffured their pubic area in that manner. lol).

My new girlfriend probably has 30 or so different silky night gowns and robes. I purchased her some more for Christmas. I plan on expressing some things to her like: "You know, the soft, silkly things you wear feel so wonderful to be next to, and makes you look so wonderful and sexy. I have always been jealous that women are the ones that are able to have garments of softness, color variation, fit, flair,and sex appeal, while men are not availed of options such as this, with acceptance. Do you think it strange that I feel this way?"

I will not quickly get into another committed relationship where I do not sense an openmindedness to a newer definition of what a real man is. If who I truely am does not fit engrained definitions ridgidly held and sought in a man, then that is okay; it is probably better that we not be together. If approaced this way, maybe the often sought, rarely found, dream of most straight cross dressers is possible: finding a vibrant, sustained love, with an accepting (maybe even enjoying?) woman that connects many positive qualities to this behavior. More of a real man she might never be able to find, nor ever want to.

Real men express the true selves, and for people like us it means wearing women's clothing. The external expression has many inner qualities that our mates love, cherish, and fell in love with us for. To those rare women, or the one rare woman, that does not make us divorce the two (inner and outer) is the opportunity to begin a journey on a road far less traveled, but far more fulfilling for both. Sound idealistic? I am sure, but I am not ready to give up on my dreams just yet. I hope none of us do.

One last thought on the children. If your relationship does end, and I hope it does not, I wanted to let you know that I have more sustained time with my kids having joint custody, than when I was living full-time with them. It gives me plenty of days per month to live on my own without hiding or worrying about someone coming downstairs, i.e., I can shave, dress, keep my toe nails painted, and chat on Crossdressers Forum without looking over my shoulder. When I have my children, it is with a renewed vigor and focus upon them. Furthermore, they benefit from not being subjected to the sensed tension and conflict between their mom and dad. Divorce does not mean loss of being a full-time father, doing it with excellence, nor growing distant. The children had a few tough spots at first, but were young enough (5 and 2 at the time, now 8 and 5) to accept and adapt than at a older age, I suspect.

Thanks for sharing your tough situation, and have noted in my short time as part of this forum, that when one risks and shares their struggles, it keys something in us all, and all benefit.

Love,

Jenny

[Stephanie Brooks]

I wish you luck on this, perhaps a compromise can be made. I really believe in any relationship, both parties have to be able to give a little here and there.
Wishing you the Best,
Vickie

And it's good to believe in any relationship. However, both sides need to give, and sometimes one side won't budge at all. That's the reality.