Connection between being TG, and your relationship with your father?

[vbcdgrl]

Interesting, there's another thread on here that hypothesizes that if the mother is under "stress" during pregnancy, that can cause the child to exhibit CD tendencies. I replied on that thread that I do feel my mom was under stress during pregnancy.
Now, this thing with my dad. He was an alcoholic, the "mean" kind. He could and did get violent, with myself and my mom. When he was sober, he was still kind of mean, unhappy most of the time. If he ever showed any affection or love toward me, I don't remember. Most of the time, he was distant and uninvolved.
Maybe, if we keep at it, we'll get to the bottom of the "why" of CDing.

Vikki

[kathy gg]

Bobbie, you certainly can have yoru opinions about Ann {god rest her soul}....

But I have to step in and defend Ann Landers. She gave nothing but thoughtful, kind, and spot on advice to wives who have caught or found out about their hubbys' being cd's. She helped many generations of confused women as I think I read at least twice a year or more when this subject comes up. Because it always does and it always will. She always said that crossdressers are not hurting anyone, that this is a very misudnerstood phenonmea {sp?] and that most wives big concerns {the gay thing, the srs thing} are not what most cd's even want.

This theory of hers might come from an outdated source....but overall, her support and stuff for crossdressers has done more to help than hurt.

Sorry for going off topic...

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go..

[Melissa73]

well for me, the first time i ever was dressed, was by by older brother and my sisters. We were playing agame, and i forget how it happened, but they tied me up, while they sliped my sisters nightgown on me. Thinking back, i must have liked it, as because later that night, as everyone was asleep, i slipped into my sisters room and found that nightgown.

AS for not having a close relationship with my father, i would have to say I didnt have one, until my teenage years. My parents were divorced, and i saw himevery other weekend. And when we did go see him, he worked all weekend minus sunday, the day we went home. But i wouldnt say that the lack of a relationship with my father led me to "crossdress." In fact, dispite this lack of relationship, I love and honor my father.....And always have. But, in all honesty, i am more closer to my mother (whom has been there for me when i really needed it.)

I have often asked myself, why i dress....and in the past i looked at it as being a bad thing. But, today, with all the bad in the world, i come to realize that i am not doing a bad thing. After all, my dressing doesnt hurt others nor does it affect anyone. For me, to dress up is a relaxing activity from a hard day of work.

but to blame my father's lack off closeness for my dressing, i would never do that. noone makes me dress, i have free will. Now maybe years ago, i was drawn it unwillingly, with desires and urges. But now, it is who i am. And with all the people out in the world who hurt others, how can anyone criticize crossdressers?

[Robin Leigh]

Once again, this is a very dated theory. However, in the spirit of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we explore and connect. .

Understood. Which is why I gave the rest of my answer.

The theories on us from that period are weak at the very best. A quick read of "Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex, But Were Afraid To Ask" will verify the badly researched thinking of the day.

Indeed. But it was better than nothing for its day. I read that book when I was 10, while I was home sick with the flu. I told my best friend that I'd read it. Somehow, he forgot the fact that I read it in secret. He mentioned the book to his Mum (a doctor) & it got back to my parents... Did I get in trouble! FWIW, an updated edition was released a few years ago.

Robin

[linnea]

This is how I remember Ann Landers too, and even though it is a bit off the central topic, I'm glad that you wrote it.
The portrayal of CDs as AL's encyclopedia presents it is dated and over-general, so not surprisingly it fits some of us and not others. In my own case, my father was distant but for a different reason than I've seen noted so far: he was hospitalized when I was four and he died in the hospital when I was eight. Because of his hospitalization, I did not see him very often and then it was only on some weekends because the hospital was far from where we lived.
During that time and throughout my elementary school years, my mother had me wearing girl's panties under my boy clothes. On a couple of occasions she had me try on dresses in department store dressing rooms, and she said from time to time that she wished that she had had a daughter. She never said that she wished that I were a girl, and other than the panties, she never dressed me like a girl at home or in public. She didn't know that I was wearing her clothes some of the time since the age of seven, and when she died she did not know that I had ever been a crossdresser.
I do NOT blame my crossdressing on my father or my mother. I have always felt that both of them loved me very much. I was stunned by my father's death and felt abandoned by him (which, in turn, made me feel guilty about having bad thoughts about him). As I look back on it, I wish that I had shared my crossdressing secret with my mother. I think that she would have been surprised--even shocked--but understanding and supportive eventually.
I didn't know my dad well enough to speculate how he would have handled the news. What I've heard about him and my vague impressions of him suggest to me that he would have handled my behavior with compassion.

Bobbie, you certainly can have yoru opinions about Ann {god rest her soul}....

But I have to step in and defend Ann Landers. She gave nothing but thoughtful, kind, and spot on advice to wives who have caught or found out about their hubbys' being cd's. She helped many generations of confused women as I think I read at least twice a year or more when this subject comes up. Because it always does and it always will. She always said that crossdressers are not hurting anyone, that this is a very misudnerstood phenonmea {sp?] and that most wives big concerns {the gay thing, the srs thing} are not what most cd's even want.

This theory of hers might come from an outdated source....but overall, her support and stuff for crossdressers has done more to help than hurt.

Sorry for going off topic...

[joanne_mi]

FWIW, an updated edition was released a few years ago.

Robin

Really? I wasn't aware of that... I'd assume it's a bit more sympathetic to us then the first? I'll have to look for it at Amazon. Thanks for the heads up.

[Snookums]

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity). In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.

Not my theory, of course, but it did get me thinking....

The aforementioned attack on my masculinity never happened, the first time I dressed was with a like-aged female cousin, and per her and her sister, it was my idea. I was 5.

The statements regarding the relationship with the father did bring pause, some of that was pretty apt. I had a very difficult, and complex relationship with my father.

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

Thanks in advance.

I was forced to dress in girls clothes from 4 tears old until I turned 7 by my birth mom and step dad.
as for my natural dad,he was a brutal monster,because I believed dressing in girls clothes was normal,he brutally abused me my entire life,in his eyes I was sick.
you cannot begin to comprehend some of the things he would accuse me of,once to teach me to leave stepmoms heels alone,he put my hands over the burner of a gas stove,when I read threads like this it just sends me into a rage.
no I'm not upset with you or your thread,just the individuals who made me what I am.

[Snookums]

I had a poor relationship with my father until he was forced to move out when I was 16ish, after which I never saw him again.
He was always someone to be feared and was rarely involved with me for anything other than a beating if I did wrong.
His rules about the house were strict and not always logical in my opinion. When he left, things were much more relaxed.

I think his regime forced me to be more introvert and secretive, I used to spend hours alone outside or locked in my room out of harms way and I have often wondered if that was what made me who I am.
I have thought long and hard about this so many times and can honestly say I will never know.

sorry for the long post, but this has touched a nerve with me, now can someone point me in the direction of the 'I hate my father' forum

secrets,thats how my life was,are you sure our fathers weren't clones

[tammie]

Hi All: First let me say that if Ann Landers was here today she would likely admit that this info is dated and probably not accurate. She was always ready to admit when she was wrong. To her credit she helped me when I was a teen by writing advice for a man who wanted to buy womens underwear. After reading her advice I was able to get the courage to do it.

In my case my mother was under great stress when I was en utero. Aside from being maried to man who didn't want children and was constantly berrating her and screaming at her, she was on the ragged edge of always being in congestive heart failure. She was 40yo when I was born, and she had a damaged heart valve from "rhumatic fever" IE untreated strep in her teen yrs.

I was also forced crying in to my older sister's gingham partydress, panties, lacey socks and maryjanes at age 4, in front of her and 2 playmates giggling the whole time, by my mother who was only being playful. My grandmother would always say to me "its a shame U were not a girl with that great complexion".

Last but not least my father was cold and always ready to fly into an angry rage that ended with physical abuse to my mother or sister or me. My sister today has struggled a lifetime with an eating disorder that was likely caused from this abuse. There is almost no way I cold not have been a crossdresser.

[Snookums]

Hi All: First let me say that if Ann Landers was here today she would likely admit that this info is dated and probably not accurate. She was always ready to admit when she was wrong. To her credit she helped me when I was a teen by writing advice for a man who wanted to buy womens underwear. After reading her advice I was able to get the courage to do it.

In my case my mother was under great stress when I was en utero. Aside from being maried to man who didn't want children and was constantly berrating her and screaming at her, she was on the ragged edge of always being in congestive heart failure. She was 40yo when I was born, and she had a damaged heart valve from "rhumatic fever" IE untreated strep in her teen yrs.

I was also forced crying in to my older sister's gingham partydress, panties, lacey socks and maryjanes at age 4, in front of her and 2 playmates giggling the whole time, by my mother who was only being playful. My grandmother would always say to me "its a shame U were not a girl with that great complexion".

Last but not least my father was cold and always ready to fly into an angry rage that ended with physical abuse to my mother or sister or me. My sister today has struggled a lifetime with an eating disorder that was likely caused from this abuse. There is almost no way I cold not have been a crossdresser.

my father never got phycally abusive with my stepmom,stepbrother,or stepsister,just me,no matter what went wrong in that house,it was always my fault because I was abnormal.
today they probably blame everything that goes wrong on me,and they haven't heard from me in 7 years or so.
I once met John Bradshaw,he told me,"target children" also known as the family scapegoat
can never be repaired,they go through life trying to understand what they did wrong.

[PattieAnn]

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go..

Great post from my point of view.

Here is my theory. I do what makes me happy and I don’t need to find reasons why I am the way I am. What would be the point, someone to blame? Someone to thank? I make no apologizes for who I am and I have no guilt about who and what I am.

Pattie Ann

[Eugenie]

No, I wasn't forced to dress as a girl when I was younger.

No my father wasn't cold and distant, just the contrary, very warm and always ready to answer questions from his children.

Of course there will always be some people who recognise themselves in such theories. But the analogy of situations doesn't prove any causality between the osbverved situations where fathers have been cold ans distant and travestism.

But I'm not surprised about Ann Lander's statements, especially since they were made more than 30 years ago...

Eugenie

[Janailene]

30 years is for ever. Ann would proibably say something different now.

As for me I intiated my CDing at 5years old. My Dad was killed before I was 10,but my memories are of a great person.

I believe that we are all slightly different except for the fact that once you put on girls clothes you're hooked. No getting away, but who would want to anyway!!

[Snookums]

Hey, there was some discrepancy over my who my father was/is. To this day I dont know for sure! so...you never know!

Further to my last post, I wonder if my visions of my father made me not want to be a man?

the way my father treated me made me not to want children,my stepsister is married for 18 years ,she has no children,I believe it's because the way I was treated,my stepbrother is divorced and has 3 boys,his wife left him because he brutalized his 3 boys,all 3 of my nephews have emotional problems,their hands shake all the time,and they are big time alcoholics.
I just wonder if parental violence against their children is genetics.
my father never drank any alcoholic yummies.

[KarenSusan]

I believe that we are all slightly different except for the fact that once you put on girls clothes you're hooked

That certainly seems to be true.

[kayla_cd_va]

I have no idea who my father is. I was raised by my grandparents and they told me that they were my parents. They even had a birth certificate showing them as my parents, so I never questioned it. The woman who raised me was a sad person. She had issues. The man who acted like my dad was not around much. And when he was the old woman treated him like trash, so I don't blame him for not being around. When I was 40 I found out that my mom was who I thought was my sister. She died 2 years before I found out that she wasn't my sister, that she was my mom. I have always felt inadequate as a male. I wanted to do boy things but was never really good at sports or other guy things. I would put on the woman's stockings when I was 13 or so and knew then that I wanted to please men, but I fought it because I didn't want to be a "fag." I only feel like I'm me when I'm dressed. Nothing feels as natural to me as wearing stockings and high heels with make up and a wig on. I believe that different things cause crossdressing. As much as I love it and do it more and more I don't believe it's a natural thing for a male to do. Someting happened at some point. I think it's wonderful for forums like this to be available to us who love crossdressing but struggle with it.

Kayla

[Karen Johnson]

I've often wondered whether or not my relationship (or lack thereof) with my father had anything to do with my being a transvestite. I don't think my father liked me. We were not close at all. He was physically abusive toward me, sometimes seriously so. My mother was wonderful. I always thought that maybe I somehow or other grew up wanting to be like her and not at all like him.

[princessmichelle]

Hi,

I'd like to respond to the original post.

For the first part: no, I was not forcibly dressed etc.

For the second part, relationship with father: complex, so maybe yes.

princess michelle

[Rachel Morley]

In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage.

There was never any rage involved but cold and distant, and with a desire that his son would be a tough guy "man's man"....yeah, tell me about it

[AprilMae]

I think we all have seen here that we all do this for a myriad of reasons, some known some unknown. You can't pigeonhole it based on psychobabble, however benign it may be. I do it, I like it, I don't really care why. My mother didn't dress me up, my father didn't abuse me. I'm a normal well adjusted guy who likes to put on a dress every so often,

[charly]

I never even met my father but I alway's wished that I had a father or atleast a brother. My mom and my sister raised me. When I was young I wanted to be just like my sister and I followed her everywhere. I remember she was in "Brownies" (generic girl scouts) and my mom volunteered with the group so I would go to every event and meeting. And one day when I was about 4 or 5 years old I wanted to try on this red and white dress that my sister had so when I had the opportunity I went in to the closet and tried it on.

[racquel]

me too

Me also.A middle child,loving family,as far as I know the only cd'r.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

It's reflective of outdated, typically Freudian, theories about crossdressing and trans-ness -- along with it's counter-parts: the cold, distant mother, the smothering mother, etc.

Richard Docter, in his excellent "Transvestites and Transsexuals," specifically looked at these theories found no evidence to support them. (Not to say that it may not have occurred in individual instances, as people have attested to.) Social historians Vern and Bonnie Bullough point out in "Cross Dressing Sex and Gender" how psychological theories about crossdressing and trans-ness during the past century have reflected a lot of unacknowleged biases based on societal assumptions about "proper" gender roles at a given time.

BTW, I also have to give props to Ann Landers, for the reasons Kathy GG mentioned. The information may have been incorrect in this case, but overall she was definitely supportive.

Incidentally, it's also worth Freud did make a lot of valuable contributions -- ideas like projection, transference, etc. that we don't think of being "Freudian." And Freud himself was a lot less "Freudian" than his follower when it came to things like the Opedius and Electra complexes. Interestingly, Freud never addressed transgender issues -- all this sort of theorizing was done by later followers.

[sandra-leigh]

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity).

I've never had a particularily good memory for events ("episodic memory"), but to the best of my recollection, absolutely nothing like that ever happened to me.

[QUOTE=joanne_mi;604451] In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage.

Let me think... Yes I got spankings; no I can't recall at the moment if they were always administered by my father. They hurt, but there was always a reason for them, and I don't mean a "made-up" or arbitrary reason for them. My father might perhaps have been the disciplinarian more than my mother, but there was never ever a cruelty about it: we always knew that our parents were trying as best they knew how to raise us.

We did a lot together as a family, camped, hiked, tobagonned, went to museums, visited every province except Newfoundland and all of the northern USA. Reading was well encouraged, as was an appreciation for nature; team sports were never pressed upon me; he took me to his work, helped me with little electronics projects, and let me help him in his household workshop, including using the grinders and chisels and drills and saws.

Unfortunately, his health was failing by the time I was 10, and he had several surguries and hospital stays, and died about a month before my 14th birthday.

If he were still alive... I'm pretty sure he would have been able to accept my cross-dressing (which really didn't kick in until 2 years ago) -- at least intellectuallym as intolerance was never one of our family values. But after this long it's hard to predict how comfortable he would have been if I'd gone to visit him in full femme. (I don't think it would bother my sister or brother-in-law to see me in full femme, but she already has enough things in her life; all 3 of us tend to burn ourselves out helping people.) My mother... if I told her, I'm certain she would still love me, but she'd ask questions that I'm not prepared to answer.)

[DawnRodgers]

Never knew mt father. He died in WWII, before I was birn - actually he wasn't my legal father either. I was a bastsrd child - probably a kind of going away present to my mother.
Anyway, I was brought up by my mom.and her sister. Her sisiter's husband died when I was two or theree from an infection. So I was brought up in a house with my mom,. my aunt and my two girl cousins - no men except for uncles and such. Alwayw thought that that played a great part in my CDing. All of thise woman and their cute feminine things. Also ladies in that era always wore dresses or skirts and bkouses. Heels and nylons. Make up. I guess that stayed with me.
Dawn