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Thread: A Different Viewpoint

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    A Different Viewpoint

    A different viewpoint: It seems to me that whenever a thread discusses married and/or CD’s in ‘committed relationships’ who have relationships outside of those situations, with either and/or both genders, including kissing and dare I use the “S” word - SEX - one of the first responses, echoed by subsequent responders, is “.....does the SO know about it, and if not, that is cheating.”, as if this so-called cheating is some kind of holy grail. Those of us that have a different point of view are regularly and consistently put down by those posters. While that is certainly their right to have and express that opinion, I have a different opinion which I also have a right to express which is as follows: I do not have nor do I hold any religious beliefs, and am therefore not restrained in my actions by what I believe is an artificial prior constraint on what I believe are human urges for multiple relationships, including having sex with more than one person, and depending on one’s diversity, with both sexes and other races wherever and whenever the desire and opportunity presents itself. Is this amoral? Depends on what one’s so-called morals may be. Is this a libertine point of view? Again, so-called morals are the basis of this appellation. What it seems to me to come down to is a tension between those who have none of and therefore feels no tug from these so-called morals which have their basis in religious theory, and those who are not imbued with these so-called morals, which by their very nature require a compulsion to impose those beliefs on others.

    From my free-wheeling perspective, there is no problem with having ‘outside’ relationships, perhaps including sex, at my option, kept from my SO. I frankly don’t consider that to be any of her business!

    CDing does have a definite sexual component for me. I feel sexy when dressed, and respond to individuals from both sexes if there is a mutual attraction. My dressing tends to be a bit provocative, and consciously so! I enjoy the company of men and women who are attracted to me.

    The so-called marriage vows are a sham. If they were taken seriously, there would not be a greater than 50% divorce rate. A whopping percentage of divorce comes from so-called cheating. So much for those ‘vows’. Marriage merely provides a more comfortable life-style, and eases the having and rearing of children. Sooner or later those in the minority of this statistic will become an even more insignificant number, and fidelity in marriage will be seen by many in the majority who merely live together in greater and greater numbers as a quaint custom practiced by reactionaries.

    Those that believe that SO’s have only one secret - cross dressing - and having ‘confessed’ and been forgiven for that trespass have no other secrets about their cross dressing, are naive to say the least, in my opinion. Sooner or later the other shoe will fall, notwithstanding all the pious mouthings of the ‘perpetrators’ and the ‘forgiveness’ of the ‘liberators’.

    As for me, I am very content and secure in living out what nature has obviously intended for me without the artificial constraints of straight-jacket religious dogma and hypocritical society in much of the CD community. In the final analysis, haven’t the closeted CD’s who have kept their ‘secret’ from the SO really been ‘cheating’ with their femme persona? Hasn’t ‘she’ really been ‘the secret other female’ in the mix?

  2. #2
    Member Kahlan51's Avatar
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    "Those that believe that SO’s have only one secret - cross dressing - and having ‘confessed’ and been forgiven for that trespass have no other secrets about their cross dressing, are naive to say the least, in my opinion. Sooner or later the other shoe will fall, notwithstanding all the pious mouthings of the ‘perpetrators’ and the ‘forgiveness’ of the ‘liberators’.

    As for me, I am very content and secure in living out what nature has obviously intended for me without the artificial constraints of straight-jacket religious dogma and hypocritical society in much of the CD community. In the final analysis, haven’t the closeted CD’s who have kept their ‘secret’ from the SO really been ‘cheating’ with their femme persona? Hasn’t ‘she’ really been ‘the secret other female’ in the mix"
    I agree with this in part I think that those of religious bent should heed " who is without sin among you cast the first stone" We as crossdressers are often the target of intolerance so it would be fantastic if we could practise tolerance. We are individuals and we need to do whatever it takes to make our life work . Kahlan

  3. #3
    heaven sent celeste26's Avatar
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    Your lack of...

    Jillian your lack of religious feeling is probably the most significant thing you wrote, and since you have placed yourself outside of the religious universe I can only pity you. I'm relatively sure you dont even care about that either

    Anything more would just be a waste of breath.
    Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Being ourselves

    Well said Jillian. It's been my feeling all along that you have to be true to yourself and your feelings. There are always going to be different opinions. I respect everyone for who they are here and everyone has the right to their own beliefs, opinions and value system. I actually applaud those who can live up to their marriage vows or whatever. In the final analysis, no one is really right and no one is really wrong. The forces of the universe, be they just natural processes or something created work the way they work. How well we work along with these forces depends on how well we fare. What I mean is that we can't break the law of gravity for example without some kind of effect. No one has all the answers anyway. What works well for one person does not work well for the other. I work along with what I have and what I have is my dichotomy along with all the feelings and effects. What we as people (specifically TG people) do with that is up to us and it ends up being whatever we make out of it. "Moral" views notwithstanding, we have to work in harmony with our feelings and the processes in place in the physical universe not to mention the interaction with others. We have a distinct advantage in this regard whether most realize it or not. Ericka/Rich

  5. #5
    Pantyhose for everyone! Jennifer_Ph's Avatar
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    I don't remain faithful to my wife because of religion - I do it out of respect for her, our love, and our relationship. I would never, ever, EVER do anything to hurt the girl of my dreams, the love of my life.
    xxoo
    Jennifer

  6. #6
    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    Well welcome back.....we missed you! Hehehe. Jumped right back into the thick of it I see? Lol

    Ohhh and BTW....my marriage vows are NOT a sham!! We've both been faithful to each other for 30+ years and I'm damn proud of that.... And it has nothing to do with crossdressing or so called morals (of which I consider myself a person with high ones) or religion (which I have no use for at this stage of my life), or anything else except my commitment to her!! Period!! Plain and simple!!

    Love Karren
    Last edited by Karren H; 10-25-2006 at 08:28 AM.
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    Krysten Krystenw's Avatar
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    Sorry

    I agree with Jennifer and Celeste.

    Anything more would just be a waste of breath.

  8. #8
    Krysten Krystenw's Avatar
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    And Karren Too.

  9. #9
    Platinum Member Sheila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillian310 View Post
    A different viewpoint: It seems to me that whenever a thread discusses married and/or CD’s in ‘committed relationships’ who have relationships outside of those situations, with either and/or both genders, including kissing and dare I use the “S” word - SEX - one of the first responses, echoed by subsequent responders, is “.....does the SO know about it, and if not, that is cheating.”, as if this so-called cheating is some kind of holy grail. Those of us that have a different point of view are regularly and consistently put down by those posters. While that is certainly their right to have and express that opinion, I have a different opinion which I also have a right to express which is as follows: I do not have nor do I hold any religious beliefs, and am therefore not restrained in my actions by what I believe is an artificial prior constraint on what I believe are human urges for multiple relationships, including having sex with more than one person, and depending on one’s diversity, with both sexes and other races wherever and whenever the desire and opportunity presents itself. Is this amoral? Depends on what one’s so-called morals may be. Is this a libertine point of view? Again, so-called morals are the basis of this appellation. What it seems to me to come down to is a tension between those who have none of and therefore feels no tug from these so-called morals which have their basis in religious theory, and those who are not imbued with these so-called morals, which by their very nature require a compulsion to impose those beliefs on others.

    From my free-wheeling perspective, there is no problem with having ‘outside’ relationships, perhaps including sex, at my option, kept from my SO. I frankly don’t consider that to be any of her business!

    CDing does have a definite sexual component for me. I feel sexy when dressed, and respond to individuals from both sexes if there is a mutual attraction. My dressing tends to be a bit provocative, and consciously so! I enjoy the company of men and women who are attracted to me.

    The so-called marriage vows are a sham. If they were taken seriously, there would not be a greater than 50% divorce rate. A whopping percentage of divorce comes from so-called cheating. So much for those ‘vows’. Marriage merely provides a more comfortable life-style, and eases the having and rearing of children. Sooner or later those in the minority of this statistic will become an even more insignificant number, and fidelity in marriage will be seen by many in the majority who merely live together in greater and greater numbers as a quaint custom practiced by reactionaries.

    Those that believe that SO’s have only one secret - cross dressing - and having ‘confessed’ and been forgiven for that trespass have no other secrets about their cross dressing, are naive to say the least, in my opinion. Sooner or later the other shoe will fall, notwithstanding all the pious mouthings of the ‘perpetrators’ and the ‘forgiveness’ of the ‘liberators’.

    As for me, I am very content and secure in living out what nature has obviously intended for me without the artificial constraints of straight-jacket religious dogma and hypocritical society in much of the CD community. In the final analysis, haven’t the closeted CD’s who have kept their ‘secret’ from the SO really been ‘cheating’ with their femme persona? Hasn’t ‘she’ really been ‘the secret other female’ in the mix?
    Jillian310.

    Those that believe that SO’s have only one secret - cross dressing - and having ‘confessed’ and been forgiven for that trespass have no other secrets about their cross dressing, are naive to say the least, in my opinion. Sooner or later the other shoe will fall, notwithstanding all the pious mouthings of the ‘perpetrators’ and the ‘forgiveness’ of the ‘liberators’.
    THANKS JILLIAN -------- YOU HAVE JUST CONFIRMED SO MANYSO's FEARS THAT CD'S ARE LYING CHEATING bAST**DS--------- it really is nice to know we are stupid gullible idiots, who deserve to be cheated on just because you crossdress and we choose to go on loving you not withstanding the fact that you lied and cheated on us for so long with your secret.

    I have no firm religious beliefs but thought that I had been brought up with the belief that you did the best you could for people and especially those that you loved and if that makes me A MORAL HUMAN BEING THEN I AM PROUD OF THAT.

    I may be in the naive minority --------- THAT DO NOT BELIEVE CDR'S TO BE PERVERTED NOR CDING TO BE THE BASE FOR ABUSING THE PEOPLE YOU LOVE AND ALLOWING YOU TO GO OUT AND DO ANYTHING YOU WANT SEXUALLY ---- if so then again I am proud to be there

    Sorry but if you choose to engage sexually outside your relationship then yes it is your SO's business especially in the age we live in today with all the threat from sexually transmitted disease. I thank any diety you care to mention that I have my wonderful DH and not you.

    Your SO has my commiserations

    A Different Viewpoint --------- YOU MIGHT WANT TO TRY THIS ONE

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=43001

    Jess
    Last edited by Sheila; 10-25-2006 at 09:14 AM.
    I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
    Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me

  10. #10
    Administrator Tamara Croft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillian310 View Post
    From my free-wheeling perspective, there is no problem with having ‘outside’ relationships, perhaps including sex, at my option, kept from my SO. I frankly don’t consider that to be any of her business!
    You don't?? Why did you marry her then, if all you're going to do is sleep around?? I don't care what you do to be honest, I just feel sorry for your wife. If she ever found out what you had been doing, I hope she buries you... you are nothing but a disgrace to men and women.

    You don't know the meaning of the word moral, love, faithfulness... imho, you're nothing but a ****
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  11. #11
    Spunky Princess AlyssaT's Avatar
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    Are there objective morals?

    I'm a staunch atheist, and a rabid humanist. So I obviously don't believe that morality is dictated by any external force. It is invented by Man. And here is the morality that I have invented for myself: Hurt no one. Keep your word.

    Within that context, making a vow of monogamy, and then breaking that vow, would be immoral. Being in a marriage in which sexual dalliances are part of the arrangement is not. Lying to someone who would prefer to not be lied to would be immoral.
    Last edited by AlyssaT; 10-25-2006 at 08:51 AM.
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  12. #12
    Senior Age Member sissystephanie's Avatar
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    Like Karren, my wedding Vows are NOT A SHAM! WE married "for eternity" and always will be. Likewise, my religious beliefs are very strong and have always influenced my life. I was my dear wife's husband, best friend, lover, and her girl friend also. Neither of us had any need for sex elsewhere. We had all we needed at home. At my age now, 74, sex is not all that important! But being Stephanie (Sissy) in pretty outfits is!

    Sissy

    More Girl than man

  13. #13
    Member Lady Jayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillian310 View Post
    A different viewpoint: It seems to me that whenever a thread discusses married and/or CD’s in ‘committed relationships’ who have relationships outside of those situations, with either and/or both genders, including kissing and dare I use the “S” word - SEX - one of the first responses, echoed by subsequent responders, is “.....does the SO know about it, and if not, that is cheating.”, as if this so-called cheating is some kind of holy grail. Those of us that have a different point of view are regularly and consistently put down by those posters. While that is certainly their right to have and express that opinion, I have a different opinion which I also have a right to express which is as follows: I do not have nor do I hold any religious beliefs, and am therefore not restrained in my actions by what I believe is an artificial prior constraint on what I believe are human urges for multiple relationships, including having sex with more than one person, and depending on one’s diversity, with both sexes and other races wherever and whenever the desire and opportunity presents itself. Is this amoral? Depends on what one’s so-called morals may be. Is this a libertine point of view? Again, so-called morals are the basis of this appellation. What it seems to me to come down to is a tension between those who have none of and therefore feels no tug from these so-called morals which have their basis in religious theory, and those who are not imbued with these so-called morals, which by their very nature require a compulsion to impose those beliefs on others.

    From my free-wheeling perspective, there is no problem with having ‘outside’ relationships, perhaps including sex, at my option, kept from my SO. I frankly don’t consider that to be any of her business!

    CDing does have a definite sexual component for me. I feel sexy when dressed, and respond to individuals from both sexes if there is a mutual attraction. My dressing tends to be a bit provocative, and consciously so! I enjoy the company of men and women who are attracted to me.

    The so-called marriage vows are a sham. If they were taken seriously, there would not be a greater than 50% divorce rate. A whopping percentage of divorce comes from so-called cheating. So much for those ‘vows’. Marriage merely provides a more comfortable life-style, and eases the having and rearing of children. Sooner or later those in the minority of this statistic will become an even more insignificant number, and fidelity in marriage will be seen by many in the majority who merely live together in greater and greater numbers as a quaint custom practiced by reactionaries.

    Those that believe that SO’s have only one secret - cross dressing - and having ‘confessed’ and been forgiven for that trespass have no other secrets about their cross dressing, are naive to say the least, in my opinion. Sooner or later the other shoe will fall, notwithstanding all the pious mouthings of the ‘perpetrators’ and the ‘forgiveness’ of the ‘liberators’.

    As for me, I am very content and secure in living out what nature has obviously intended for me without the artificial constraints of straight-jacket religious dogma and hypocritical society in much of the CD community. In the final analysis, haven’t the closeted CD’s who have kept their ‘secret’ from the SO really been ‘cheating’ with their femme persona? Hasn’t ‘she’ really been ‘the secret other female’ in the mix?
    I was going to go into a long winded dissection of your post explaining how wrong you are but.....let me just say if you love someone you don't want to be with anyone else, therefore it makes me sad that you have never known true love, it makes me even sadder that your wife is so insignificant to you that you would be willing to expose her to the pain of betrayal and the risk of potentially fatal disease and you don't even think it is any of her business!!
    [SIZE=4] Jayne xx[/SIZE]

  14. #14
    ADMINISTRATOR Sandra's Avatar
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    Feeling Good today AmberTG's Avatar
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    I tend to live by the golden rule, which , in my opinion, doesn't have a religious basis, it's just the basis for civilized behaviour, without which we are no better then the rest of the animals on this planet. We have the ability to think in abstract terms, something that only a few other animals can do. If we cant live in a civilized manner, then we'd just be living by the survival of the fittest and the strongest, we'd still be in the stone age, unable to rise above our animal instincts.
    I believe non-consentual cheating is one of those basic animal instincts that humans battle every day. I look at it this way, all religious views aside, marrage is a legal contract, we agree to certain terms in the contract, among them, to have a sexual relationship only with the person we are marrying. Cheating without consent is breaking that contract, and the other person has a right to know that the contract has been broken and take whatever steps they feel necessary because of that breach of contract, just like any other legal contract in business, etc.
    Just because a person is an athiest, does not mean that they can therefore have no "moral" basis for their life. Non-religious morality falls under the simple rule of "treat others as you would want them to treat you." If you don't want your spouse to lie to you and cheat on you, then don't do it to her. Very simple. If you do lie to and cheat on your spouse, expect the consequences of your actions to catch up with you someday, because eventually, they will. What goes around, comes around. If you plant bitter seeds, expect a bitter harvest.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandra GG View Post
    If I posted what I really wanted to I'd be banned
    Same here......i best leave this thread well alone!!

  17. #17
    It's Never Too Late QZ2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer_Ph View Post
    I don't remain faithful to my wife because of religion - I do it out of respect for her, our love, and our relationship. I would never, ever, EVER do anything to hurt the girl of my dreams, the love of my life.
    Thank you for that, Jennifer. There are lots of us out there that have the same feelings. And I feel sorry for those that break the promises they make in their relationships with others.

    As Karren says, my marriage vows are not a sham. Nor are any other commitments, promises, agreements or whatever I have made with my wife.

    And to Jillian, when you say, "From my free-wheeling perspective, there is no problem with having ‘outside’ relationships, perhaps including sex, at my option, kept from my SO. I frankly don’t consider that to be any of her business!", it shows me an attitude I certainly wouldn't want to see in my partner. Does your wife sleep around? Does she keep it from you? Would you like that? Would it be any of your business? Good relationships are formed from honesty, communication, friendship and sharing.

    To each his own....

    Love to all, Susie
    “I am what I am and that’s all that I am"...Popeye

  18. #18
    Silver Member Kerry Owens's Avatar
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    One small poiint, fine whatever you choose to believe but: what viewpoint will you take if your "outside recreation" picks up a STD and your SO/Wife gets infected also??
    Will you tell her she's been exposed to a STD that can seriously hurt her? Or will you go to the doc, get your treatment and keep her in the dark?
    Will you tell her, and get her to medical treatment before she is seriously ill or physically damaged from the STD?
    STD's are not fun. They aren't always little minor infections, and there are some that left alone to run rampant that can put a woman in a hospital for critical surgery....we're not built the same way as men, and if a STD gets in, it can truely destroy a woman.
    Others have pointed out the moral results of your choices and I'll just add my comments on another facet. There are results/karma that are going to be from your choices, and like it or not; when you weave lies, you will get the results invariably.

  19. #19
    Platinum Member Shelly Preston's Avatar
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    I have been a defender of people in past who choose a different lifestyle to normal. This was only done where people were accused of cheating without any evidence of them doing so.

    An open relationship if fine as long as there is honesty between the couple
    (not for me but everyone is not the same)

    Why get married if all you want to do is sleep with anyone you find suitable

    I sincerely hope you don't catch any sexually transmitted disease not for you but for the sake of your wife who does not deserve this.
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    An opposing view

    Sorry people but ...

    Jillian is entitled to her views as stated in the forum rules "All members of the forum have the right to post and reply to posts and generally take advantage of the features of the forum without abuse from other members"

    however, by responding to this thread it has [SIZE="3"]BEEN GIVEN CREDIBILITY IT DOES NOT DESERVE[/SIZE]
    Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by celeste26 View Post
    Jillian your lack of religious feeling is probably the most significant thing you wrote, and since you have placed yourself outside of the religious universe I can only pity you. I'm relatively sure you dont even care about that either

    Anything more would just be a waste of breath.

  22. #22
    Platinum Member Angie G's Avatar
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    Jennifer PH I echo your words 100% my wife and I have been married 38 years and will stay that way
    Angie

  23. #23
    Vegas Domme rickie121x's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Ditto marks all over!!!!!! Thanks AlyssaT

    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaT View Post
    I'm a staunch atheist, and a rabid humanist. So I obviously don't believe that morality is dictated by any external force. It is invented by Man. And here is the morality that I have invented for myself: Hurt no one. Keep your word. ....Within that context, making a vow of monogamy, and then breaking that vow, would be immoral. Being in a marriage in which sexual dalliances are part of the arrangement is not. Lying to someone who would prefer to not be lied to would be immoral.
    Alyssa, I agree whole-heartedly! The finest relationship of my life was with a GG who was part of an "open relationship" where sexual dalliances were understood to be a normal part of "their" lives. Again, I have never seen a more true and caring and suportive husband-wife relationship than theirs! It was and still is wonderful to see.

    And yet, after 20 years of marriage, the excitement and stimulation of sensuality had faded for them - with their mutual exchange. The decision to have sex with others was made carefully and with deliberation re health, re the continuance of their partnership, re having a more fulfiling life. I was so fortunate to have been a part of that - to have learned how to be human with a larger outlook on life....

    Rickie
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  24. #24
    Feeling Good today AmberTG's Avatar
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    Just another note, I've personally been through 2 relationships where cheating was involved, by my SO, and it was very distructive to the relationship. If you have a consentual open relationship, that's fine, whatever works for both of you, I don't consider that cheating, because it's consentual. If it's not consentual, it's hurting someone, whether they know or not, whether you care or not. That's my opinion, anyway.

  25. #25
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    The last time I mentioned morals here I was called a "Hawkish conservative talk show host". So here we go again.

    MORALS. A dirty word?

    My commitment to my wife has NOTHING to do with artificial religious constraints.

    My commitment to my wife has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that I have given my word that I will be faithful. I am a man (person?) of my word. She now has every right to expect that I will hold to that word. She has promised me the same. I also expect her to remain faithful.

    This is NOT just for "convienience". It is also, in this day of AIDS and other STDs, an arrangement of self preservation .

    I wonder if you would be so happy with your infidelity when you contract AIDS because your wife cheated on YOU. It's pretty easy these days. I think women are the fastest growing population of HIV victims.

    I am sorry, but I think your behavior is shameful. I think your behavior is IMMORAL.

    MHO

    Stephenie

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