my thoughts from another thread

[erica12b]

truth/reality

i have and am having a hard time with the truth problem, i can under stand how a S O can not trust a guy again, after the fact, "she finds out he is a cd after they have dated /married", but i have asked a lot of gg's if they would date a cd if they knew first about the cding and they say no ,they tell me to date and then tell her , there is no time table, but honesty is not the best police ,

if the ggs had known about there hubbys, hobby they would never have been there hubby's,
they had the hobby before the had the wife, but they wanted the wife, and cant stop the hobby,

the fem side of all cd's is there most of the time, it's just the outlet of dressing that makes it more prominent.

im just having a hard time understanding the dont tell, tell it's a lie ,standard

can some one give me some insight ?

[AngGG]

I was going to address this in the other thread because I definately have some thoughts on this but did not want to go OT.

but i have asked a lot of gg's if they would date a cd if they knew first about the cding and they say no

But isn't that our right to decide if this lifestyle is right for US? Just like you have the right to decide whether or not you can live with some personality traits that a prospective SO might exhibit? That is what "dating" is all about. When you date you learn about the other person...sometimes good, sometimes not so good but that is why you date first then marry...not the other way around.

if the ggs had known about there hubbys, hobby they would never have been there hubby's,
they had the hobby before the had the wife, but they wanted the wife, and cant stop the hobby,


Again this is lying by omission, I am not talking a little white lie that is said to protect someone elses feelings. Don't get me wrong I love my husband and try not to put restrictions on him, but it was still my right to know about this before we married. IMO crossdressing in not a hobby, it is part of the makeup (no pun intended ) of ones personality and being. It is not something that can be ignored or stopped otherwise there would not be soo many gurls in turmoil on this forum. I have a hobby, I love to fish, no this is not a typically "female" hobby but I love it...If my dh had a problem with it I COULD give it up if I had to. If it was something I felt that I could not give up under any circumstances, but knew my hubby might find that it was not something he could accept, would it not be wrong for me to withhold that info till after we said "I do"?

My

Angela

[Shannon CD]

But isn't that our right to decide if this lifestyle is right for US? Just like you have the right to decide whether or not you can live with some personality traits that a prospective SO might exhibit? That is what "dating" is all about. When you date you learn about the other person...sometimes good, sometimes not so good but that is why you date first then marry...not the other way around.

My

Angela

Hi Angela,

I agree with what you are saying. However, I look at it differently than what one may think. I absolutely believe that a woman has a right to know, in fact, I told my last gf within one month of our dating. I truly wanted her to have all of the information so that she could decide whether or not she could deal with this knowledge before she became to attatched. It worked, for a while. She seemed to accept it but later used the information as a form of blackmale to get me to do what she wanted. This did not set well for me.

Now I am at a point where I would not want to tell someone who is interested in me. Not because I am afraid of losing them but because I do not wish to have my private life broadcast. This is something that I wanted to keep to myself and a few people close to me. It didn't work that way.

[Mitzi]

Angela...

It's not quite as simple as you've put it.

Most of us are heterosexual guys who are attracted to women, fall in love with women, and wind up marrying a woman. And, like me, many believe this desire to dress will go away, once we marry. The urge may actually diminish during courtship, replaced by this overwhelming happiness of being in love.

Consider, this secret is not something like fishing, where society could care less who indulges. Fair or unfair, men dressing in female atire is viewed as aberrant behaviour, and to many, abhorrant.

Most of us are very sensitive to how people perceive us, so we try to hide this side of us...even from someone we may feel deeply for. If this relationship should fail, we fear the other person may reveal our secret to others.

Once we marry, and realize the urge is, if anything, stronger than before since we can't freely indulge anymore, there is a sense of having trapped yourself.

We don't know how the wife will react to finding out about our crossdressing, will she want to end the marriage...will she tell everyone...we fear the unknown, so we remain in stealth mode, until we get caught...

I'm very pleasantly surprised by the number of accepting wives out there. I wish mine were one of them...

Mitzi

[Lady Jayne]

Great question Erica,
The truth of the matter is, excluding those SO's who activley sought a CD as a partner most people would run a mile if they found out someone they were dating was a crossdresser.
That said you fall in love with someone because of who they are and dressed or not bieng a CD has a hugh influence on the type of person you are.
So for me the question you have to ask yourself is,
Do you think you would have been happier as a person had you you married someone else.

If the answer is yes then fine but if the answer is no you must realise that whether you knew or not you fell in love with that person at least in part because he is a CD as this has helped shape who he is. Yes in an ideal world there would be no secrets but for most of us this is something we have Had to hide all our lives or face bieng ridiculed by society, and so finding the courage to trust someone with our most intimate secret does not come easy.

[Dixie Darling]

Mitzi pretty much hit the nail SQUARELY on the head. Most of us who are heterosexual CDs were under the mistaken impression that it would all go away after we got married. The truth of the matter is that it just got more complicated after we discovered that it WON'T go away. As a general rule, the longer we're married the deeper in love we become with our wives. And the more we love them the harder it is to tell them about our feminine side because we don't want to hurt them.

The problems come when we finally DO gather up the intestinal fortitude to tell them and find that they don't or won't listen to what we've learned over the years about it and especially if they refuse to accept the fact that it's just a part of the person they fell in love with to begin with. It has OFTEN been said here in the forum as well as numerous other groups I participate in that it's not so much the dressing, but the 'deciept' factor that seems to bother them the most.

Anyway, Mitzi and I seem to belong to the same 'club' since we both have non-approving or non-tolerant spouses.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[Billijo49504]

My wife knew well before we dated. I hired her as a baby sitter / house kepper. and she wanted to know who's panties those were, I said mine. I think that got things started on the right foot...BJ
ps. that was almost 22 yr ago.

[erica12b]

if i read allof these right we are all mostly right and some have a grasp other have a just a hold
its not ayes or no question, i found it funny about the fishing , i know 30 gg,s that like to fish and do it with or with out there hubbys, but i know of no cds that are open about there dressing, "real world" i do know guys that would beat or kill me if they knew, (just a fact) they are very anti gay , and im not gay buy a cd is preceved that way, and as for the trust , fishing wont end your life, or get you fired, brake up your family, but being a cd can.

i find it funny about the dubble truth, its like the armys dont ask dont tell, if i tell her before we date we dont date if i tell her after we date ,she cant trust me , i had secrets

the wifes of cd's may not know it but if there hubbys tell them they are givin them there most deep and dark secret ,secret. the thing that they would not tell no mater what torcher, a lot of cds hide it from them selfs that is where the guilt and deppresion come from .

i asked this question , of the ggs , here on the cd site to see how they would anser , these are the excepting gg,s the ones that are set apart better that the others for there openmindedness . it gives one somthing to think about

[Satrana]

I agree with the above statements. While Angela's points are perfectly correct from a rational and logical perspective, falling in love is all about emotions. Studies show that people literally do go "mad" when they fall in love so it comes as no big surprise that a crossdresser will genuinely assume that marriage will cure him, especially since most crossdressers lose the urge to crossdress during the excitement of courtship.

Nor are crossdressers doing anything different from everybody else. Nobody goes around advertising guilty secrets. Men and women alike routinely hide guilty things about themselves from each other while dating. It is not a defense, just an observation.

Considering the overwhelming ignorance and prejudice in society, most women would take the easy route and back out of a relationship if they learned the man they were dating is a crossdresser based upon her false impressions of what a crossdresser actually is.

And if we are to assess this issue from a rational and logical perspective, on what grounds can a woman reject a man in a dress anyway? We know that intolerance of crossdressers is based on socially conditioned prejudices not on reason. Even women who are open minded enough to accept the notion that a man can crossdress, still often have many problems and issues with it because of the deep running emotions involved in any relationship.

At the end of the day most marriages will go through many unpleasant surprises, upheavals and crisis. Discovering your partner has hidden their crossdressing habit is just one of those spanners which test just how strong a loving relationship you have. It is how you react and deal with this that matters not blaming the other for poor judgement in the past.

[Sejd]

I hear you. It is hard sometimes to put rules to everything. sometimes - I guess, you just have to go with your intuition.
good luck
huggs
Sejd

[Sheila]

I can only answer this from my point of view so it's only my worth.
I did have a hard time at the beginning but it wasn't about the cding ----- it was the lying, deceipt and I suppose the fact that he had had chance to tell me, but chose even then not to, like so many who have gone before me and unfortunately who will come after me I found out by accident.

Would I have chosen to continue dating him had I known in the beginning, the only honest answer to that is I don't know ----- I wasn't given the opportunity to find out so I would only be secong guessing myself, ------- I like to think that I would have taken the opportunity to find out what it was all about before making a decision.

Would I date a crossdresser in the future --- (I hope I don;t ever have to make that choice because I want to remain with this guy for the rest of my life) -------- and I posted a poll on this but didn't poll in it myself at the time because I was new to this -------- lets just say I wouldn't rule it out but and yes it is a big but I would want to know beforehand.

While we all have sides to us that will remain hidden from others in our life anything that could have a major impact in your life together i believe should be made known to the person you are involved with if it looks like getting serious --------- I speak from my own personal experiance here, --- anybody who wants to know can ask and I will either post the reply in here or if they want they can PM or email me.

Jess

[AngGG]

While I agree falling in love is not logical but emotional and the desire to dress might receed for a while, it does come back...in my case I came home from work for lunch one day when he was off and found a nightie, when I asked him about it he said he missed me and wanted to be closer to me. This was before we were married but were living together. From most of the posts I have read here it seems like alot of the gurls here have similar experiences.

So the relationship is serious, marriage plans are made, the urge while not as strong as it used to be IS still there. What I don't get is at that point why not sit down and have "the talk". We are not children, we are rational, emotionial and logical creatures. For myself, I know I would have sat down and at least read all I could on cding and come to my own conclusion. I did not have that luxury. I am an adult who has the right to decide for myself what I will and will not accept and deserve to be treated that way. This brings me to another question. Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who rejects such an important part of you and your personality? I am definately not unaccepting but I do have difficult moments. I know that my fishing example in no way compares to cding, but if you dont like the fishing example take that one word out and fill it in with something you might have a hard time with. Force yourself to put our shoes on (ok still no pun intended, but maybe some attempt at levity?! ) , ask yourself... would you want to know, would you expect to be told.

When you enter into marriage it is not something to be taken lightly, you are committing yourself and your future to another person, going into that should be done with your eyes wide open and your heart full of joy. You should know the type of person and personality you are marrying, and be able to judge whether or not that person might or might not be able to either grow to accept, accept or reject this. An ultra conservative deeply religious person would probably have a problem...why would you marry her? Why would you marry a person you thought would use this secret for some type of blackmail?

I am a believer in the saying "you only have one life..." and I think that is why I believe my husband should not give this up...even if I had a huge problem with it, it would be my problem. I would never ask this of him because I know that it is a deeply rooted part of who he is. It is something he needs to do. It is something that brings him pleasure and relaxes him. I would not ask him to give it up but I would have asked him to trust me enough to tell me before we said I do.

Angela

[Claire]

This is a complicated subject and everyone must deal with his/her own situation. We should not think everyone should fit in our mold and not condemn others because they don't.

[heelme]

Generally, I think it is best to get everything out on the table before making a long term committment. It's only fair in my opinion.

That said, I did not tell my own wife of my crossdressing until well into my marriage. She made it clear this would have been a show stopper had she known before we married. Today we have forums like this and crossdressing is more out in the open than it was 25 years ago. Had I a notion the CD/TV community was so large, I probably would have been looking for an SO within this community but at the time, I still felt I was one of a small and secret society.

Now, speaking as the devil's advocate, she was able to spend some number of years with me without the knowledge I like to wear women's clothes and so was able to get to know what kind of person I am in a way more in line with her levels of acceptance. That is the only thing, I believe, that has allowed us to stay together and work through the tough time we had. So, I guess it can work both ways.

[tall_brianna]

Angela...

Consider, this secret is not something like fishing, where society could care less who indulges. Fair or unfair, men dressing in female atire is viewed as aberrant behaviour, and to many, abhorrant.

Most of us are very sensitive to how people perceive us, so we try to hide this side of us...even from someone we may feel deeply for. If this relationship should fail, we fear the other person may reveal our secret to others.

Mitzi

Well put. Add to that years of childhood torment for being a "sissy", "fag" or other colorful word just for being a very skinny boy. Also account for ignorant family, who upon catching you at an early age tried to beat it out of you and maybe, just maybe, you can understand why I could never tell anyone PERIOD.

Maybe this will change for me, I am becoming more and more apathetic to what people think of this side of me.

[MJ]

hi jess

Would I have chosen to continue dating him had I known in the beginning, the only honest answer to that is I don't know ----- I wasn't given the opportunity to find out so I would only be second guessing myself, ------- I like to think that I would have taken the opportunity to find out what it was all about before making a decision.

again there is this big problem for cd'ers it is our deepest darkest most sacred of secret. and what if we meet that special woman .again it's our fear that stop us. jess what if we were at a bar/pub and i saw you how would i approach you " hi i am Paul and i am a CD " whats your name ? lol sorry bad example but you get the idea
i think that web site has great possibility to post how to like;-
all the gg should be able to help with this

1. if you want to date a CD
2. how to tell your gf you CD .when is the right time
3. omg the big one how to tell your wife and keep your marriage intact
4. how to live with with the other female persona etc etc
CD can't stop it's a part of who we are i just wish gg would not come down or condemn us just because we like to dress fem sorry for my rant thats my

[Tree GG]

And if we are to assess this issue from a rational and logical perspective, on what grounds can a woman reject a man in a dress anyway? We know that intolerance of crossdressers is based on socially conditioned prejudices not on reason. Even women who are open minded enough to accept the notion that a man can crossdress, still often have many problems and issues with it because of the deep running emotions involved in any relationship.

Not true. Social acceptance is a factor in day-to-day functioning. Attitude/conversation/actions in the private relationship change. I don't want to hear "...I'm still the same person..." because it just ain't so. The person I was shown ceased to exist 24/7. Now the en femme or pink fog high guy shows up frequently and does NOT exhibit the same behaviors. Social acceptance is only relevant in the public life - the private life is what gets shattered and rebuilt.

As to when to tell (and tell you should) - early on is best. Dating is for discovering if you can live with & respect the other persons traits. If someone can't live with it, it's better to know after investing 2 months than 20 years. And by not telling, you are misrepresenting yourself, which I believe is fraud.

[erica12b]

I feel I want to date a gg that knows up front,” reality”/, no gg that knows will go out with me. The truth is the show stopper, I found it strange that ggs that are willing to talk to me on-line, and where ok with cding did not want to date, there advise was to date get to know someone and then tell them “setting up of the lie” it works against the truth and make the trust issue come in to play, I know every one is different, but we all have the rights to the truth,

As the gg’s here are excepting of us,” in privet “ how do they except a cd, tv in public?
I find most people tolerant in privet and not tolerant in public


Im not trying to make anyone mad or to hurt any one, its just my strange thought process. Sorry,. erica

[tall_brianna]

As to when to tell (and tell you should) - early on is best. Dating is for discovering if you can live with & respect the other persons traits. If someone can't live with it, it's better to know after investing 2 months than 20 years. And by not telling, you are misrepresenting yourself, which I believe is fraud.

I'm not going to brow beat you over your opinion, but I still think there is benefit to just keeping CDing to oneself. From the stories I've read, and even you referred to it here, once it is out and the SO is forced to accept it (or leave), the CDing becomes more than just 30 minutes once or twice a week and does displace some or much of the man persona. If you never knew or refused to know as some SOs do, you probably wouldn't have noticed a difference and the man you fell in love with is still the same guy.

I mean, if you can make it 20 years in a relationship without knowing clearly it wasn't an issue. Like a tree falling in the woods, you knowing is the only issue.

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

[SIZE=4]i met my c/d b/f nearly 2 years ago. he told me 2 months ago about his c/d, but that only came out after he had done somethign to hurt me big time. so his attitude was "what the hell !!! its all or nothing". i was angry that he hadnt told me from the start because i felt lied to/betrayed to be honest. he would sit "dressed" talking to me on phone, when i hadnt a clue, for that i feel his made a fool of me. but then on his side there are reasons why he didnt, which i do understand now. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]we had a argument where i told him he was self-centured with it, and it was "me me me" all the tiem. he seriously didnt realise he was as bad as that, and now has made sure he consultes me when ever possible on the matter .[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]we dont live togther so maybe that makes it easier ??[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]but, the point is, he's still the man i fell in love with. to me its only his "outer skin", its what is inside that matters to me. no-one can take that away from the c/d side. to me its his hobbie, and iam happy to be involved with his hobbie xx[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]xx wicked blonde xx GG [/SIZE]
:GE:

[Tree GG]

I mean, if you can make it 20 years in a relationship without knowing clearly it wasn't an issue. Like a tree falling in the woods, you knowing is the only issue.

I'd agree, EXCEPT it changed from sporadic fetish dressing over the 20+ yrs (which I did know something was up because he'd go for a few days to a week of not being able to look me in the eye). Then, one day, "I want to go full femme & I'm telling you because it's gonna cost alot".

Now the euphoria (pink fog) is palatable. I'm not always around when he CD's (fine with that), but the pink fog is a way more intense personality change than a few days of avoidance. I know just from his eyes, smile & presence whether he's dressed in past 24 hours or not. And maybe you're right - maybe it was never really a healthy, honest relationship and I'm just kidding myself.

But from the other side, I still would have preferred to have been given the chance to choose before 20+ yrs & children. Would I have still married him? Can't honestly say.

[erica12b]

ok , i half to ask did any one ask there other if they crossdressed?

[Stephenie S]

I agree that the fishing analogy is a bit weak because fishing is not looked down on by society in general.

So, lets practice some empathy on a more serious level. Empathy means "to experience the feelings of another".

I am going to ask you to imagine (be empathetic) that you have married, say for several years, 10 - 15 years, and you find out that your wife has a secret that she has kept from you the entire time of you marriage. This secret is that she is a compulsive gambler, or a drug abuser. This is information she COULD have told you BEFORE you married, but she didn't tell you because she was afraid that if she did, you would not marry her. Or maybe she believed it would "go away" once she was happily married.

How do you feel now? Clearly she has been able to hide this fact from you for many years so it is not having any really serious negative effect on your relationship. Are you upset with her for gambling? Or are you upset with her for not telling you? Or both? Are you worried about what effect this will have on your children? What if your family finds out? How about your boss? Do you think you could accept this? Would you try and help her get therapy? Do you wish she had told you earlier? Would this have been a "deal breaker"? Is it now?

I understand that being a drug abuser or a gambeler has the potential to harm others whereas CDing does not. But it does have the social disaproval that "fishing" does not and therefor seems to me a more apt comparison. All three can spend inordinate amounts of money. All three take up time which could be better spent on the family. All three can be solitary persuits.

This is not a question to be answered. It is an exercise in empathy. Just try and imagine how you would feel if this happened to you. SO or wives who find out about CDing after many years of marriage have some of these same feelings to deal with.

Personally, I feel that even with the immense difficulty and the problems that surround it, telling your potential wife (not a casual GF) is the only honest way to go about entering into a marriage contract. I think it's just a RIGHT to know such an important part of who you are.

Interestingly, I told my wife before we were married and SHE was the one who thought it would "just go away".

Lovies,
Steph

[Maggie Kay]

When does one have the label of a CDer? At what point can a person be so sure that it is worth bringing up as an issue? If a guy tries on a GF's panties one time, is he then for ever a CDer. Must tell every GG he is interested in that he has this condition? Who is so knowledgeable about themselves to be so forthright? I didn't know I had a definable CD condition until years after I was married. It was a disaster when we finally faced it and gave it a label. I wasn't trying to deceive her but maybe I was not understanding myself. SO whose fault is that? Should I disappear or be punished for my condition? Should the marriage be ended because of it? These questions are at the heart of a hetero relationship when CD is uncovered. It will take a miracle for the relationship survive. Certainly, once CD is revealed, the relationship is permanently changed. There are no "Knights in Shining Armour", riding a white horse in drag.

[tall_brianna]

I can definitely relate on an even closer analogue. I recently dated a GG who was fine, she was cute, fit, very sexy, good personality and not too dumb On our third or fourth date she confided in me that she had been a stripper for eight years and, as a vocational hazzard happens in that field, had worked at a club that was raided and she was charged with prostitution for getting a little too close on a lap dance.

I'm disappointed in myself but it was a show stopper. I just couldn't get that thought out of my head and I was worried what everyone else would think. I know that it's bad but it's the same reason why I don't tell anyone about my "hobby" - because I've been trained by society and parents to be ashamed of it.

What if she had waited? I think if I had fallen in love with her before knowing I would not have cared what anyone else thought. I think I could also have easily understood why she couldn't tell me about it but perhaps only because I have my own dark secret. I almost wish she hadn't told me - I was having such a good time with her.

-b