What to do when boundaries are crossed ???

[Cheryl GG]

Okay, so I set two boundaries, dont bring dressing into our bedroom -period - the bedroom was to be neutral ground....he asked me to tell him what a bad girl he is - in the middle of having sex - and then, a few nights later, he went to sleep in our bed in womens clothes....he broke the two rules that were the first two laid down and the two that meant the most to me....why did he do this? is he that selfish that he doesnt care about my feelings and only cares about his own happiness and what he wants??? xoxoC/

[Shannon CD]

I wish I could answer that for you, but only he will be able to tell you why. I just ask that you let him know what he did wrong without berating him for it, he may not realize how deeply you felt. I know that when my ex would get highly emotional about something I did wrong, real or imagined, it completely turned me away from hearing her side. All I wanted to do was defend myself. If she had calmly stated her point of view and re-assured me that she still loved me I would have done anything for her (plus I would have felt about 2" tall)

[GG Vanya]

So confused....I need to ask you this:

Does he often ignore your wishes outside the realm of crossdressing? If so, then I think you have your answer as to why.

What to do? That depends on how much of a "deal breaker" this is for you. If your acceptance was based on these two agreements, I'd say back off on the acceptance until he understands that your needs are *just* as important as his are.

I wish I could remember which GG here said the following:

I don't wish to control his crossdressing, nor do I wish to be controlled *by* it.


Another case of the bird nest on the ground being treated as an outhouse syndrome.

P.S. It's been my experience that a person like this who won't respect another person's rights and breaks deals will break more and more until shown there are repercussions. And given the fact that these were your two initial boundaries, I ain't buying the fact that he may not have known how hurt you'd be by him ignoring them.

[MJ]

hi confusedone
that was wrong of him to do that. he needs to post here so we all can tell him how much damage he is doing. and let me tell you. there will be a lot of replies.. all i can say is tell him the rules again and listen or else ? hugs Marissa

[kerrianna]

....he broke the two rules that were the first two laid down and the two that meant the most to me..../

If you haven't told him yet, he needs to hear what you said above.

This isn't an easy thing for any of us to control. Our desires can be very strong and get the better of us, despite our best intentions. It could be that what he thinks he really wants, he's trying to get by 'testing' you - finding out how serious your boundaries are. You will have to make your boundaries stronger than his desires. That's not an easy thing to do. It sounds like you've already deal-maked (giving ground in exchange for laying down your boundaries) and if you have he has to respect that or all bets are off.

You need to sit down and talk about what happened, not with accusations and anger if you can help it, but in a respectful calm way with both of you listening. But as Vanya says, if this is a 'dealbreaker' for you DON'T give up ground. He either needs to control himself, give it up altogether, or think about how fun it will be living on his own.

There are lots of things I wish my SO would do or let me do (vice-versa) but NO means NO if we want to stay together. It's the price you pay for happiness at home

[melissacd]

Tell him how you feel and then discuss the matter. Hopefully you can each get your feelings out in a positive and constructive way and come to an understanding that you can both accept. He breached the agreement because he does not accept the original agreement for some reason, you need to understand that reason. He is testing your limits. If you do not raise a flag now then he will continue to push the boundary further and make you more upset. Better to head this off at the pass than let it fester for years (trust me I know).

[Sally2005]

I think this may have to do with a communications problem. Did you ask him if he would respect your decision and have him repeat back to you what he would do or did you make a demand in the middle of an emotional plea? He may not have understood the message you were attempting to send because of the stress.

I have a personal case not related to crossdressing but my wife has done some things that we both understood and agreed she would not, that is when I really get upset because it erodes trust. In the case of a misunderstanding, I get mad for a few minutes and try to communicate my wishes better the next time.

hope that helps some.

[Billijo49504]

Hi, and please don't screeme and holler, as we have a way of blocking it out. BUT, there always is a but, make sure he knows how much you were hurt by his actions. If he knows he hurt you, he probably wouldn't do it...BJ

[GG Vanya]

Gosh, how many ways will some of you intimate that what happened is the SO's fault and not that of the CD?

She didn't say it plain enough? The CD can't control his urges? Insufficient communication? Does a wife actually need to have her husband *repeat* her desires back to her?

Confused, maybe you should just put a sign on the bedroom door in huge block letters:

YOU PROMISED TO KEEP THIS ROOM NEUTRAL GROUND!

Nahh that wouldn't work. I'm sure some would say "well once the door is closed he can't see it from inside the room".

Bottom line is, her husband is a married adult. Being respectful and trustworthy should be a given.

[Calliope]

Okay, so I set two boundaries, dont bring dressing into our bedroom -period - the bedroom was to be neutral ground....

My guess is he 'broke the rules' because they were imposed on him and he can't accept them ('internalize them,' if you will). I think you need to get him to believe 'the rules' are in his interest as well as yours. You can refuse lovemaking if you wish and see where that leads, just my take on the matter.

Bombs away!

[Satrana]

Boundaries will always be broken sooner or later. The reason being is that he never wanted that restiction in the first place. He only agreed to it because he wanted progress on your acceptance. Understand that you have all the power in negotiations on restrictions, you are the one setting limits, not him. Exactly what options did he have when you said not in the bedroom?

Personally I dislike boundaries especially if one partner is imposing their limits on another agaisnt their wishes, it is no longer a equitable partnership, more like a parent/child relationship. If you are turned off sexually by his crossdressing then make it clear there will be no sexual contact while he is crossdressed and enfore that. But do stop to think whether an absolute ban on his dressing in the bedroom is really a sensible and realistic boundary. That room is as much his sanctury as it is yours. Do you think he can just switch off his transgendered personality and emotions and become all male when he walks into the bedroom?

Remember he wants to include you in his crossdressing, not exclude you. He wants your acceptance. He will always push against artificial limitations, which will just cause much aggravation and arguments so are they worth it?
If you accept and agree he can crossdress in the house then be realistic about what that means and do not impose unnecessary restrictions.

[Lisa Golightly]

Tolerence is often mis-interpreted as acceptance. You need to speak your mind and lay down the rules.

[SatinSarah]

interestingly our new boundaries are that I can only dress in the bedroom when we go to bed...Why will I stick to these boundaries? Because I pushed and pushed before and my wife snapped. I have not been allowed to dress for 2 years and it hurt. I saw how much it hurt my wife. I thought/knew she was not 100% comfortable but thought it would go away as she got used to me. You need to be able to communicate how important this is for you and to make sure he knows the consequences.

However, in defence of those who give him some excuses this is a strange desire we have. I guess like most girls this is a deire I can't switch on and off. It takes over me to be as woman as I can (mainly very sexy) Now I knw its lingerie only in the bedroom and we talked abuot how far this will allow I am still thinking in the back of my mind that it mightprogress. BUT I must stick to herrules not to hurt her again and to respect her. Hopefully your relationship is strong enough to reinforce the need to communicate and if rules are broken the appropriate action follows. He deserves to be told straight and if it happens again your sanctions kick in!

[Clare]

[SIZE=3]Hiya Confusedone.

I expressed a comprehensive reply in your "does this ever let up" thread. [/SIZE]

[Michelia]

I could never live by those boundaries. It is hard enough for me to put on my cowboy boots and be a guy in the bedroom 50% of the time, which is what has been agreed with my SO.

It sounds like you are a pretty flexible and understanding partner if these are your only restrictions. But I think it would serve your marriage well to talk about these things very openly and try to see why he is breaking the rules. Maybe he does not realize how important this is to you. Maybe you do not realize how important it may be to him to be a girl occasionally in the bedroom. He may be having a hard time even admitting it to himself. You may want to also ask yourself why this is so threatening to you. For my SO and I, it has not been a detriment to our sex life. It has actually improved it much. You may never be ready for this. I understand. But try to leave the door ajar.

We are all very different. What some CD can abide by may be entirely impossible or counterproductive for another. (i.e. you may get your wish but this will create other stress in your relationship, or encourage your partner to cheat with someone else to experience what he wants - and of course this is true of everything else in the sexual arena, not just CDing). I have found CDing to have tested to the max our communication and patience skills. But with these invested correctly, the payoff for us has been there.

All said, if you agree on certain rules, it is very important to live by them. It is true, you have control of the limitations...but make sure they are taking into account both of your needs as much as possible. This will be best in the long term.

I hope I have contributed another point of view and not confused you more, confused.

Best wishes

Michelia

[Tamara Croft]

[SIZE=3]Hiya Confusedone.

I expressed a comprehensive reply in your "does this ever let up" thread. [/SIZE]

Ditto to that, so have I (although not as comprehensive as Clares).

[cath]

I know exactly how you are feeling, at the moment we are going through such a rough time because he cant see that while supporting them we put alot of our feelings to one side. Talking about what you find acceptable (because after all this isnt us that have brought this issue into our marriage)
and expecting them to abide by these agreements isnt too much to ask.But much the same it dosnt matter how much we talk he can only see what he wants and needs and turns it on me because the more hurt he has caused and his refusal to face up to the fact that I have wants and needs has brought me to a point now where I cant support him, it is just causing untold damage to me both emotionally and physicaly. Chin up.

[Kate Simmons]

Hi Hon. I can only say one thing. My wife would never tolerate my dressing. If she did, however, and I agreed not to bring it into the bedroom, I would honor that request. Her feelings would mean more to me than my own in that situation. I am an honorable man and would live up to my word. I realize I'm older now and past the "bloom" of youth with reference to crossdressing. When we are younger the need seems to be more intense than when we mature somewhat. These days for me it's all about identity and nothing to do with sex or intimacy. Still, if she did accept me as Ericka, I would do everything possible to work with her and honor her requests. I feel it's only fair and reasonable. You've done your part and now it's time for him to do his. You both need to sit down and talk and work things out. If he really loves you, he will consider your feelings and not just his own. Just my thinking. Ericka

[noname]

I don't really see a problem with pj's, if that's all he wore. It's just pj's. You might want to give him some breathing room. He doesn't tell you what kind of pj's to wear does he? As for the bad girl part, that I don't understand. I can imagine that would make most anyone feel awkward.

[kittypw GG]

There are really no surprises in the replies. They range from agreement to personally I don't like boundries. Everyone needs boundries, that is life. Some people who don't have boundries end up in jail for their crimimnal behavior.

I agree with Vanya, how often and how many times must a person tell him that the boundries were important why would they be asked to agree to them????

If he is breaking the two rules you do have right from the starting gate then he does not respect them. I would be asking myself why in the world he would lie and agree to them if he had no intention of keeping them?
I would question his character. Maybe he is not the man for you?

Folks Let me tell you loud and clear. If you want your SO'S to accept you, you have to be patient and give them the respect of honoring their boundries. If you do not then you may end up losing your relationship.

If he did not feel comfortable with the boundries then he should have agreed with a time limit. Like, say a year. Give the poor wife a chance to know that you care enough to be honorable then renegotiate at the end of the time limit. If you respect boundries then you will get more respect and acceptance in return.

Act like adults, so many act like selfish children and it's very hard not to treat them as such. Kitty

[Karren H]

Cut him off.........and reemphasize the rules!!! if he does it again let him sleep in the guest room.......or kick his ass out of the house!!
Rules are Rules!!!

Love Karren

[Charity's GG]

None of us like boundaries, but for the sake of relationships, they have to be honored!! Over stepping boundaries is like...telling your best friend your deepest darkest secret, only to have them tell the world. It hurts, resentment builds and trust is gone.

Im dealing with my own boundary breaking hubby so I know exactly what youre going thru. It seems like sometimes the more we accept, the more they push, which in turn pushes us wayyyy back on our acceptance.

Im not trying to be disrespectable to anyone

Have a beautfuld ay!! Charity's GG

[Tree GG]

Kitty,

If I may expand on a few of your points:

I agree with Vanya, how often and how many times must a person tell him that the boundries were important why would they be asked to agree to them????

Every person has a breaking point. Make sure when something is said/done that ups your hurt/resentment meter a notch, you tell him instead of waiting until the gauge is pegged out & you're ready to blow. The average person has to be told something 5 times before it sticks. I imagine under the influence of pink fog it gets harder. Only you know how many times you're willing to tolerate a breach in trust.

...I would be asking myself why in the world he would lie and agree to them if he had no intention of keeping them?...

I think "lie" may be too strong - it's definitely what he did - but I'm willing to give the guys the benefit of the doubt that they get so excited in being able to share what was previously unsharable that they forget you may not be as excited about the dressing as they are. Again, remind them that this is their fantasy you're trying to understand and help make reality, and if they take it too far past today's comfort zone, you'll shut down in self-defense mode.

We recently had a CDing agreement not lived up to and asking three questions seemed to settle the matter to both our satisfaction. "Do you understand why I asked for that agreement?", "Do you think that is reasonable?", & "Do you intend to honor that agreement in the future?" We're now clear and there are no excuses acceptable for breaking that agreement, unless renegotiated.

Folks Let me tell you loud and clear. If you want your SO'S to accept you, you have to be patient and give them the respect of honoring their boundries. ...

I'd like to add, loud & clear, that boundaries aren't permanent restrictions and I resent being made to feel like he requires my permission. He does not. However if he cares about maintaining a relationship with me, he has to acknowledge and abide by today's boundaries so I can be allowed to digest and decide what I can live with.

[Cheryl GG]

Okay, I certainly did not share details, which I will do so now....I have known ab about his cross dressing for 5 weeks now....and I am struggling to say the least....the only rules I set down in this house was that (1) that the dressing does NOT come into our bedroom; and (2) that it does NOT come into our sex life....for weeks now I have watched and been victim to so many rage episodes from him...when he starts cussing and raising hell, I just turn around and come upstairs to my office....that majority of the time makes him mad - because I wont engage in the fight....yes those were the only two things I had asked NOT to happen in this house - nor to let our children know....we have 4 and I thank god that they dont live with us...he has a son and I have a daughter and two sons.....for the last 5 weeks, everything that I KNEW to be so, is all now confused....already struggling with these changes, this situation in the bedroom happened....and NO he is not to climb in a bed with me while in womens apparel...nobody in our bed wears clothes, thats been the rule since we started living together....was kinda a joke between us (especially if it was cold at night he would make jokes to me about my electric blanket)....so the bedroom thing just slammed me okay....then, knowing that we have Christmas for those 4 kids of ours to buy for.....he went on ebay and spent money we didnt have to spend and I assure you, there was not a thread of it for a single one of those kids or me for that matter.....and I never said a word to him - until he asked me for my paypal password....I refused to give it to him....he was furious and told me that I was not being fair, that he had done without things and it was his time now....we didnt speak for two days - he stayed downstairs and did not sleep in the bed with me....what has now happened that has pushed me to the line is that a few days ago, early one morning about 7am, I was still half asleep and he rolled over towards me, I put my hand on his thigh - and not in a sexual manner at all - he pushed me almost 1/2 way across the bed and then SCREAMED "dont touch me dont you ever touch me" at me - at 7 am - I have not been the same since.....I have only lost my temper once and I can honestly say ONCE....and when I lost it - I LOST IT - he just kept saying things that he knew would hurt me and he would not stop...and when he called me a ---- (and I dont mean a witch, cause I am a woman, and every woman has the ability to be a witch) when he called me that name and then told me I was a miserable excuse for life.....I snapped....I came out of the kitchen and slung a stained-glass REAL Tiffany lamp across my living room....didnt pick it up, I knocked it across the room.....I have not been that mad in so many years....he has gotten angry and pitched temper tantrums when he cant have the check book or bank cards to do with as he pleases....he snaps at me, he yells he cusses and all the while, I just keep thinking he is going to stop and its going to chill out and we can get on with adjusting....but he says that I am not adjusting fast enough....its been 5 weeks, okay, cut me some slack, I am doing the best I can...hell I was mentally ill before all of this to begin with....there are these brief passing moments that he is the person that I know and the one that I married...in the last few days, he has not dressed, and he has told me that he thinks our marriage has failed and is damaged beyond repair...that there is no return or help for us to adjust to this change....I disagree...but I always see the cup as half full anyway - he sees it as half empty....he tells me that he has guilt for what he sees that he has done to me...how he has damaged our marriage....I tell him that it takes two to destroy a marriage...last night, he heard me up here typing and asked me who I was writing a letter to....told him I was on the CD forums and then later I was in the chatroom.....nice people in there....ty Mz.....so when he came upstairs to go to bed, he just said good night and so I got up from my desk and went to his side of the bed, and sat down, he asked me did I learn anything....told him yes.....he listened to what I said to him, and then he said that incase I had not noticed, that he had not dressed in two day, and that its because now he is angry at himself for all of this...that things wouldnt be like this and that he wants things with us to be the way that they were before....I told him life is about change, people change, things change...its what happens in life...after I sat and listened to him say that he was mad and that he knows he is the one that has brought this in this house, he said that he didnt think that things would be like this....I asked him what did he think it would be like....and his reply was.....i didnt think about it at all.....I looked at him and told him, that is why, before you speak, you think about what you are going to say and how that something can destroy someone with only a few words.....he said that yes he knew that I had been telling that to him since we met.....he and I both are bipolar, I am a borderline personality - so I have insecurity issues that at times can rule me...but, before all of this came out, I had a made a milestone in my therapy.....I had come to KNOW that he loves me, and that he wanted me to be with him....and that I was safe with him....that he would always protect me....I see a therapist every two weeks....have for years and will till I drop dead.....he also has a therapist....he has in the past told me he was going to therapy....and then the office call and wonder where he is and if he needed to reschedule...so you gotta know how pissed that made me.....he and I both see the same pdoc....the pdoc(psychiatrist) and our tdocs(therapists) are in the same practice....the records are all kept on computer...so each knows what is going on with the other and their doctor....is like an inner loop so to say....and after my request for marriage counseling, HIS therapist told mine and the pdoc, that HE was not ready...that he would do ME more harm than he could ever do good in marriage counseling at this point in time....so that is out of the question....he went several months during the summer where he didnt take his meds, god talk about a summer from hell....literally.....and back then I had no idea that he was a CDer, okay, I only thought he like womens underwear - lots of men wear ladies underwear I know - so not a big deal in my mind - god little did I ever know........I have been patient, I have been calm, I did lay down boundaries, he knew why those two boundaries mattered the most to me....HE KNEW....I did what I have read all of you tell others to do....I joined these boards two days after I found out....so I could educate myself, so I could begin to understand.....I have been patient....and I am taking the blunt of his blows (so to say) well, other than him shoving me thru the closet door while he was in a fit of rage....I was not hurt, but my 11 yr old was here - my son went nuts....I had to call his daddy to meet me 1/2 way to so he could get Clay....I knew Clay was upset, and I knew I was upset, and I knew that Clay didnt need to be seeing the rage that my husband was showing....so I drove and met his daddy 1/2 way - which is 3 hours - and my son was not the only one to get to see the rage, while his son was here, well, he screamed and called me every name in the book and his son was mortified.....and all of this was going on prior to me being told about the dressed degree and that he is a CDer.....I have read what you all have posted....and I know that last night I talked with not only SOs but with CDers as well.....and granted I did not give details about what all has happened when I first started this thread, and I appologize for not doing so, but......yes, all the events in the last 5 weeks have fubared me up mentally and I know (as does my doc and therapist) that I am on the edge of a nervous breakdown....he knows it also....but, he is having some kind of breakdown on his own.....he feels guilt? part of me wants to be able to fix it all and make it better and then there is another part of me that wants to tell him good, hope you do feel a little mental anguish there after what hes done to me.....but I am not a cruel person, its not my nature....okay, so I broke a $400 lamp after 4 1/2 weeks, yes I did it and I hate that I did - the lamp was my mother in laws, and she is deceased now....I feel like my heart is broken and that someone has taken my sunshine away.....it took me 32 years to trust someone and to believe that I was loved by someone in this world....and when I trusted, I was shown that trust and security are two things I am not allowed to feel or know in my life.....and from what I have read, he cant just make the dressing go away....he said last night that he doesnt want to do it anymore that the thought of it makes him madder at himself.....can he do that ????? and mentally survive ??? okay...so there....now you have the facts.....now I have told all of the story.....am I still the one at fault here ???? and YES he is a forum member here and yes he knows I post here c/

[Samantha Lough]

Ok I agree with Vanya, Point 1.) she should of respected your wishes and understood why you wanted the not in the bedroom part. 2.) Having a SO call them a naughty girl leads me to think it is more of a fetish issue which also needs to be addressed.

I really do not understand why some one who has found a semi accepting partner would push it when it was clearly spelled out. And yes sometimes the erge gets in there but I like to think that as a adult we can do a little self control and if that was the only limits you asked for and she agreed well then shame on her.