Discrimination

[Delila]

Ok so something has been driving me crazy. A crossdresser came in for an interview the other day at my work. Everyone around the office thought that she would be a good fit well qualified and everything. Well today one of the hiring managers comes in and I hear him wisper to another supervisor "we can't hire this person" when my boss asks why he says they aren't the kind of person we want working here. I really want to say something because this situation really disgusts me but I really need this job what do you all think?

[Calliope]

Ask yourself if the shoe was on the other foot.

Today, not tomorrow, is the time to ~

Change the world (for the better).


But tomorrow will do.

[Bobbi Lynn]

How do you or anyone else know this person is a cross dresser??

[Delila]

She was dressed up long hair womens jeans and top. Not particularly dressed in drab.

[Jennaie]

This is nothing more than a survival situation. You need your job.

I know that sounds a bit crude but I'm telling you this simply because I lost my job yesterday. I have a very strong support group who has offered me anything I need. I am not worried about a place to live or money, but I still have that lost feeling that we all get when we are out of work.

[Jesse69]

Keep us posted to what happens!

I've lost all the jobs where they found out I was a crossdresser. Don't out yourself!

[carla smith]

I assume that the "they" is crossdressers. Do you know this is for sure? To overhear something is usually not enough to make a judgement. The reference could have been "They" meaning....felons or convicted molestors or anything. You assumed that they were talking about crossdressing. I think it would be wise for you to make sure before you voice your disapproval!

On the other hand, if you are correct....then you could put a note in the suggestion box! "Hire people based on their qualifications" Just because someone is pretty should not disqualify them from getting a job!

[Kenix]

I don't know what the job is for but I would not wear jeans to an interview if it is a office job.

Having said that there is really nothing you can say. The hiring manager can simply say that person is not qualified.

[Debra Lynn]

It would be smart to find out what the objections to hiring this person are. If you are not in the hiring loop, what you think won't matter. Having said that, if you are on good terms with your boss, you might remind him that discrimination in employment, is not a charge the company may want to deal with. While this is blatant discrimination in my opinion (which is all this is), unless the person who made this statement get's specific (as to "They), then it would be a hard road to prove. If you have a good relationship with your boss, feel him out to find out more.

[JulieCDorlando]

Hello,
Depending on what the job was that she was applying for? would the job require her to be in contact with customers etc? The public isnt ready to deal with a transgendered person on a non intrusive manner, much less dealing with a TG in a personal up close sort of way. What were the qualifications for that particular job? If she was under qualified then I can see the reasoning of your boss. however is she possesed at the very least minimum qualifications, andyour boss disqualified her for being TG he could be discriminatory. I believe that would be hard to prove if you went over your bosses head. Not to mention that perhaps you might be outted, or even be terminated for your actions. If you could relay a message to the HR dept annonymusly, informming them of this decision, maybe the harm can be undone. Personally, as sad as this is, I would not get involved if you are not involved with the hiring process.

[Delila]

the job does not have personal contact with customers. I am good friends with one of the people on the hiring loop and he told me that what I thought I heard was exactly correct. They are going to try to claim that she was not qualified in order to get away with this. She took a test and scored higher than most of us that work here currently. That is really what bugs me she could have been a very qualified coworker which would make everyones life a little easier. We are a somewhat small company I cant say too much due to the fact that they could be in very big trouble but there is no question that this was about her being a crossdresser and we have no hr. I guess I just have to bite the bullet and deal but it really does bug the crap out of me.

[Felicity]

The bottom line is that a business should be able to set whatever criteria they want for hiring. What they are doing might ethically be wrong, but the hiring manager may be feeling they are doing the right thing. This is different than a skin color issue because we can blend in with other people, where as it is pretty difficult to hide your skin color.

Personally, I would not dress for any job other than what I though would be the right attire. Any of us crossdressers should consider how our actions affect others. What would be wrong with dressing in the proper male attire for a job? The only exception I would consider past this is one who is doing the required 24/7 female attire prior to SRS. Still, nobody should be able to tell an employer how to run their business beyond sensible safety regulations and the likes.

How do such laws read anyway? I am not familiar with them. I might do some research, but at the moment, I am in the dark to such an example.

[Melinda G]

I say this as a lifelong crossdresser. If you need a job, and you want the job, and you are a guy, then dress as a guy when you apply for the job, and leave the crossdressing at home. Most of us don't understand what we do, so how can we expect others to understand and accept it.
Discrimination exists. It's wrong, but employers have many ways to get around it. I would much rather enjoy my crossdressing in private, or outside the workplace, than spend my life crusading and demanding acceptance and losing. The fewer people you come out to, the better off you will be.

[carla smith]

"With limited exceptions, the following actions constitute a violation the Human Rights Act:"

"In Employment...
...when, because of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, sexual orientation, status with regard to public assistance, disability or age:"

Good law! The problem is getting it litigated....

[Teresa Amina]

And there you are, no different except maybe not quite ready to do the same. Don't beat yourself up over it! Gawd, I can't imagine going to a job interview in Teresa-mode, but I sure admire anyone who is so sure of themselves to do something like that. Management does such things because they are scared; of higher-ups, stockholders, the "market", whomever. As people they may be as welcoming as you or I but look out for number 1. Sad world, ain't it?

[Calliope]

Personally, I would not dress for any job other than what I though would be the right attire. Any of us crossdressers should consider how our actions affect others. What would be wrong with dressing in the proper male attire for a job?

I say this as a lifelong crossdresser. If you need a job, and you want the job, and you are a guy, then dress as a guy when you apply for the job, and leave the crossdressing at home. [...] The fewer people you come out to, the better off you will be.

I think it should be pretty obvious the person in question is a transitioning TG, dressing as she must.

She deserves any possible support because she is fighting your fight.

Alone, seemingly.

[Delila]

I really wish that I could support her at least one of my coworkers agrees that this is an outrage. If I come on too strongly about this they could fire me I support my family I cant take the chance of losing my job. I know I am probably making excuses she is one of the bravest people I have ever met and I think she deserves the same respect as any woman applying for a job.

[Shelly Preston]

I think he only comment you can make to your friend who is in the hiring loop.

It would be a pity if we miss out on a person who has the right skills for the job

[tekla west]

If they are the right person for the job, then hire them. The rest does not matter. Will she help you make money (and I bet she will), then go for it.

Aside from that, if you will not stand up for her, who will? If you will not stand up for her, how in the name of anything holy can you in any morals or ethics even think anyone else should ever stand up for you?

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

And in this deal, baby, oy vie, you are the jew.

And Felicity is wrong about "The bottom line is that a business should be able to set whatever criteria they want for hiring" and not just because there are non-discrimination laws on the books that are for the good of the nation, but because the company has a legal responsibility to promote the fiduciary growth of the fiscal entity. Any manager who would let his personal opinions interfere with the best person for the job in that job should be fired at once. Not to mention one who would expose the company to legal complaints.

[veronicagirl]

I wouldn't CD for a job interview. Yes, it's "wrong" to be denied a job over what clothes you wear. But, at present, it's a part of life and we all know this. When YOU own the company, YOU can hire whom you want. Until then..... The owner of the company can say, "There's no I in team. The only I is what I tell you to do"

[Delila]

I know that your right kat but can you honestly say that if you were in the same position you would give up your own well being (or in my position to pay the rent and food) to stand up for a belief that many disagree with and most keep in hiding. I feel pretty terrible about my failure to be a strong woman and stand up for my fellow TG but I just cant do it.

[sterling12]

Megan:

I know it's not the "High Road", but as you say making an issue in this case might endanger your job and effect other persons in your family, who are not directly involved.

So, this might seem a little sneaky but since you have ascertained that your management types haven't been ethical, here's a compromise scenario which might be somewhat helpful.

If you can, get this person's name and try to contact her anonymously. Just write a note, or make a phone call from a phone booth. Let her know that she might have grounds for a discrimination lawsuit and that she might want to start asking some tough questions about this.

Yes, it's not an ideal situation. And yes, you might cost your company a lot of money, but stuff like this needs to get addressed. If we don't start to be pro-active and trying to effect some of our outcomes, then maybe The CD Community will get exactly what it has earned with non-involvement, which is a whole lot of nothin' and the back of somebody's hand!

Personally, I'm getting tired of being a second-class citizen. I don't want sympathy, I just don't want discrimination and bad treatment. If this person is the best qualified and they "jobbed" her because she is TG, that deserves a response! I think you might feel a lot better, if you could do something about that.

peace and love, Joanie

[tekla west]

Well I have, and for the above reasons. That is was the right thing for the company to do. In terms of the law. In terms of money. That it was the right thing overall, well, that's just a bonus.

I have had six secretaries in my life. I fought hard to get the gay guy hired when the others did not want him. Turned out, he was worth the other five, five times over. Best secretary ever.

[JenniferMint]

If the crossdresser is a much better candidate for the job than all the other applicants, then I think they'd be stupid not to hire her, and everyone should tell them that. "You mean to say you aren't going to hire her just because you have a personal problem with it? You want us to lose money because of your personal unimportant ideas?"

If, on the other hand, there's another really good candidate who isn't a crossdresser, it would be harder to argue for hiring the crossdresser.

[MarinaTwelve200]

This might not sound very nice, but IMHO, a person who is an obvious CD in a business situation where they may have to meet with clients and associate with other workers, does NOT demonstrate "good judgement".

All Cders know that that CDing can make a LOT of people very "uncomfortable" to say the least. This can result in lost business and friction and hostility in the workplace. Buisnesses are not in business to upset people or make social statements. Anyone who would deliberately and inapropriatley upset people (even for the right reasons) is not using their common sense, and hence would be disqualified for THAT reason alone---CD or not.

I do, however see no reason for NOT hiring a CDer who is discreet about it--either as a "secret hobby" done on their own time, or being 100% "passible" at the work place.