Crossdresser comedy

[Delila]

Well I dont know how to make a survey so here is a bit of an informal one.
Do you think that all of the comedy with people crossdressing for laughs helps us?
Or
Would it be better if crossdressing was not mentioned at all?

I am a little torn on this subject while I think that the only mention of cders seems to be comedic. I have to wonder is some exposure comical or not better than no exposure at all. Sometimes things need to be approached with a light mood to make it easier for the general public to accept... But if people only view us as a joke that may be no better then not seeing us at all. I would love to hear what you all think.

[sandra-leigh]

I am a little torn on this subject while I think that the only mention of cders seems to be comedic.

I watched Spielberg's "Munich" last week; it is about a covert Israeli team that went after the Black September members that organized the 1972 Munich Olympics hostage killings.
There was a scene in which an elite Mossad team quickly cross-dresses (obviously well practiced!) in order to get close enough for an assasination. The scene definitely was not played for laughs.

[Calliope]

I think it's a matter of context. We should never lose our sense of humor - about anything - but, obviously, being laughed at, or simply cast in funny situations exclusively is no good. I guess the deciding factor is: who controls the comedy - us, them (in a good spirit) or them (in a bad spirit)? Always being treated tragically, even if sympathetically, would also have its problems

[suzanne]

Funny you should ask. Just tonight, I saw an episode of "According to Jim", that masterpiece starring Jim Belushi (an actor who needs to use his own name can't be much of an actor). Actually, overheard, since my daughter was watching it while I just happened to be in the room. No seriously, you know how that deal works. It contained some camp and a tiny bit of comedy, but also some real talk about acceptance, if anyone took time to notice.

It was Halloween and Jims 4 year old son wanted to dress up in the Cinderella costume his mom bought. Let's hear it for Mom! After the standard macho bluster, there was some real heart to heart talk about boys in dresses followed by acceptance and then, because its a sit"com", it finishes with Jim Belushi in a wedding gown. Ugh! don't go there. He looks about 10% better than I would, but only because the show's producers can throw a ton of money into tailoring.

[Kate Simmons]

I agree with DT (oh oh people are going to start to talk). It depends on who's in control, the context and the situation. Personally, I don't take myself that seriously and I have to look at myself and my situation. I joke around sometimes but other times am dead serious. You have to appreciate the difference between the two. If I ever lose my sense of humor, I figure I've lost my appreciation for being human and probably myself as well. Ericka

[Marla S]

We certainly have a problem if the crossdressing is the joke; it is most of the time.
As long as people don't realize that they are joking about individuals and not about something that was invented for their entertainment, we'd better make the jokes ourselves.
Like with the movies and such, the problem is that we indeed almost never see or talk about crossdressing but about disguise, a disguise used in order to fulfill a purpose (i.e. the above mentioned Munich example, or a joke).

What's missing is the understanding of crossdressing as a respectable part of ones personality with the only aim to express this personality.
If then the CD japes about the tie of his workmate and the workmate jokes about the run in the CD's tights ... jokes ahead, lets have some fun.

[Josephine56]

Practically all pantomimes have this as part of their appeal. The 'Dame' is always played by a bloke, and the principal boy is almost invariably a young leggy lass.
Barry Humphries was invited to the Prince Charles/Diana wedding as 'Dame Edna Everidge', his famous humorous Australian female alter ego. The list is endless... Anyone remember Danny La Rue ?

[Joy Carter]

Laugh at your self and the world laughs with you. Othewise the world laughs at you.

[Lady Jayne]

Somebody once said any publicity is good publicity......with the possible exeption of Norman Bates in Phsyco and the guy in Silence of the Lambs I have to agree, However there are one or two films out there which portray us in a positive light. I saw a film called "Kinky Boots" the other day (which apparently is based on a true story) and I have to say there were some really pofound moments in it that would do us nothing but good. People tend to riddicule things they don't understand so the more people see us the more they begin to understand and eventually except.

[Karren H]

Anything that gets the public used to the sight of a crossdresser is ok by me.... was watching MASH last night and Hot Lips put a bra on Frank Burns while Clinger was parading around in the cutest little black dress.....now that's funny...hehehe

Love Karren

[Rachaelb64]

There seems to be an element of cross dressing in British comdey, Danny le Rue, Stanley Baxter, the Two Ronnies, Lenny Herny, the Little Britain guys and of course the wonderful Eddie Izzard, who stands as a light for all of us.

Unfortunatly when the 'drama' people get involved the cross-dresser is almost always protrayed as 'gay' or the transgender person played by a woman.

It seems you can laugh at us, but to seriously consider the issue of cross-dressing then a quick gloss of stereotypes will do.

'I'm just a lesbian trapped in a man's body' Eddie Izzard, on his sexuality

[sharifemme]

I get tired of using crossdressing and transgender matters as a joke in the media. Still, it isn't as bad as using it to put us down totally. A certain episode of Law and Order comes to mind where Goren and Eames belittle a suspect because he crossdresses. I've seen it on the SVU version of the show, too. This does not healp us out at all. I realize this person crossdressed and committed a crime but they made it look like all crossdressers are criminals.

I prefer transgender movies that tell a story in a more serious light. Transamerica, Normal, All the Queen's Men, To Wong Foo, and others are my favorites. They might have a little comedy in them but it isn't all degrading.

Shari

[Shannon CD]

Anything that gets the public used to the sight of a crossdresser is ok by me.... was watching MASH last night and Hot Lips put a bra on Frank Burns while Clinger was parading around in the cutest little black dress.....now that's funny...hehehe

Love Karren

You know, I hadn't thought about MASH's Klinger character in a while. During the entire part of the series that he was dressing (trying for a section 8) all of the other characters accepted him for who he was (of course they knew that he had an ulterior motive).

The fact is that I was young at the time, a time where other people's opinions carried more weight. It came off as funny, but I don't remember anyone that watched that show calling the character any derogatory names or anything other than Klinger. A lot of people regarded him as one of their favorite characters on the show. Even dressed he came off as very straight. I also remeber that even though he started out trying to look crazy he ended up knowing alot about his wardrobe and was even rather protective of it.

[Robin Leigh]

I think the comedy helps. It would be nice if we were treated as people, not as convenient humorous stereotypes, but I'd rather be seen as a joke than as a threat or someone to be despised.

There are similarities with the portrayal of gays & lesbians in the popular media, but there are also important differences.

Fifty years ago, there was virtually no serious portrayal of homosexual men or women. (And back then, not many people realized there was a difference between gay & trans). But gradually gay writers & performers gained respect for their work, starting with comedy.

Look at someone like Kenneth Williams. He camped it up to the max & used all the queenie stereotypes in existence. But he also revealed a great insight into human nature that went beyond the bounds of sexuality.

Now we have trans performers like Eddie Izzard & the ladies from Little Britain working on elevating their audiences through comedy.

But as I said above, there are differences. One of the main sources of humour is unexpected juxtapositions, putting two or more things together that don't normally go together in a way that makes them seem to go together. While we live in a society where there are clear gender distinctions in dress codes and behaviour, there will be plenty of scope for comedy with crossdressers.

Here's a "virtual video" for you to illustrate my point. We see a guy that looks like a typical workman on a building site, wearing the typical clothing, and with typical male body language. We see he is laying bricks. We now zoom in & pan down to see his hands are immaculate, with long painted nails.

Did I make you giggle?

There's another important difference between the TG & gay worlds that affects the way we are represented in the media. Until the internet, most TG people were isolated & had very little contact with other members of the community, if indeed they even realized that a TG community existed. Community support is a wonderful thing, but we don't need other TGs, or anybody else in order to be TG. Whereas gay people do need to socialize with other gay people, almost by definition. It's a bit hard to think of yourself as gay if you aren't having sex with other gay (or bi) people.

Most stories, whether they are comedies or dramas, revolve around the interactions & relationships of the characters. Gay people have gay relationships, so it's not too difficult to write a gay story "powered" by their interactions. But because TGism isn't intrinsically social, it's much harder to write a good TG story. It's hard to avoid fixating on the psychodramas of the individual(s). The easy way out is to show how the gender expression of a CD/TG person affects the way they are perceived as a sexual being. I believe that non-TG people don't really care that much about the clothes we want to wear, but they are very interested in what our clothing says about our sexuality. Oh well. Give it time.



Robin

[Kate Simmons]

Thanks Robin, some very good points for us all to consider. As you say, I think the day may be coming, maybe sooner than we think where the perception of TG people is different than what it is now. There are hurdles however. The way to approach them is "soft" I think. Even so, I'm wondering if we eventually get the freedoms and rights we seek, what will we do with them? Most of us are so used to hiding and concealing our real selves WE may not be ready. Something to think about anyway. Humor is one way to approach a positive perception if it's done in a positive light like we do here. Ericka

[JoAnnDallas]

Two shows that come to mind where there was NO comedy was involved was a CSI episode where at first it looked like three women were robbing the casino, one was killed and turns out to be a CDer. The other was a episode of Diagnos Murder where a ex marine who was a TS and had transision was killed. The doctors were looking at the body after they discovered that it used to be male and were talking about how well the SRS surgry was performed.

There have been a few movies where characters have CD, but not in a total funny way. One movie that comes to mind is 'White Chick", where two cops go under cover as girls. Yes there were many funny senies but over all done well and at the end of the moive you fnd out that one of the main characters really was a CDer.

If done in contents, CD humor is OK, done out of contents, it is not.

[ColleenCD]

The comedy of crossdressing will certainly always be in the minds of script writers. As a CDer, I cannot control what others do, I can control how I respond to it. We all appreciate a good comedy, so if it's worth seeing, I'll see it.

Colleen

[Calliope]

[...] I don't remember anyone that watched that show calling the character any derogatory names or anything other than Klinger. A lot of people regarded him as one of their favorite characters on the show. Even dressed he came off as very straight.

Of course, the emphasis was on Klinger's (ostensible) attempt to get out. He was always masculine - with a zany Gilligan persona.

Indeed, for all his ostensible attempts to get discharged, he was always patriotic - again, with a zany Gilligan persona.

Not that I'm dissing Klinger, I thought the sequence where he dresses as the Statue of Liberty and salutes MacArthur was memorable.

But he wasn't CDing in the least.

[Deborah]

Reading these forums sometimes is enough crossdressing comedy for me.

[tekla west]

As Variety used to say, Its Boffo Box-Office!

Los Angeles, CA (HFR - June 14, 2000) -- The American Film Institute (AFI) announced the 100 funniest American films, as selected by a blue-ribbon panel of leaders from across the film community, last evening during a three-hour special television event. SOME LIKE IT HOT, the 1959 classic starring Marilyn Monroe, Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon which was written, directed and produced by Billy Wilder was ranked #1. Following SOME LIKE IT HOT in the top 10, in order, were: TOOTSIE (#2) ...

Four films, including both the #1 and #2 funniest films, involve cross-dressing -- SOME LIKE IT HOT, TOOTSIE, MRS. DOUBTFIRE, and VICTOR/VICTORIA.

From the AFI web site.

Hey, nobody's perfect after all.

[ATP]

I get tired of using crossdressing and transgender matters as a joke in the media. Still, it isn't as bad as using it to put us down totally. A certain episode of Law and Order comes to mind where Goren and Eames belittle a suspect because he crossdresses. I've seen it on the SVU version of the show, too. This does not healp us out at all. I realize this person crossdressed and committed a crime but they made it look like all crossdressers are criminals.

I prefer transgender movies that tell a story in a more serious light. Transamerica, Normal, All the Queen's Men, To Wong Foo, and others are my favorites. They might have a little comedy in them but it isn't all degrading.

Shari

You must understand that it's only displaying truth when it comes to cops. From what I've read, cops are ultra macho and look down on crossdressers.

It's not so much that cds are criminals, it's just that cops think they are sissy and queer and treat them as such.

[carla smith]

I understand that a man in a dress is protrayed as either funny or twisted. I enjoy the funny better than the twisted.

It would be nice if the talk shows or any media, (have not seen them all so could be wrong) would have just one segment on crossdressing with intelligent, well dressed, and (yes I will say it) "passable" members of our group. I know...I will be punished for saying passable, but we have to start somewhere to gain public approval and unfortunately it has to start with outward appearence, then we can start working on public awareness of our true inner beauty after gaining some public support other than being the butt of the joke!

Now I have said too much!

Have fun out there!

[ATP]

The reason crossdressing in most films is perceived as funny is because, well, the male crossdressers aren't passable, in most cases.

And yes, I realize that many cds don't cd to pass, but rather, because it feels right or what have you, but that's not how the general public sees it.

A man with a beard and a dress looks silly.

Usually passable cds prompt awkwardness and silence rather than laughter because there's a part in the heterosexual male's mind that is aroused yet confused (IMO anyway)

Also, in a recent Family Guy episode, Peter Griffin was saying how he'd meet Marilyn Manson and either beat him up or bang him, once he'd figure out if he was a guy or a girl. It was quite funny because in a way, it acknowledged straight mens' confusion on the matter.

[tekla west]

"You must understand that it's only displaying truth when it comes to cops. From what I've read, cops are ultra macho and look down on crossdressers.

It's not so much that cds are criminals, it's just that cops think they are sissy and queer and treat them as such."

Which is odd, considering how many law enforcement professionals I've meet on these boards.

I was strolling home from a peace march where I marched with Code Pink - true patrioits all them girls - and a cop looks at me and says:

"Nice outfit DUDE, but the gay parade isn't until June" Cracking himself up.

I replied, "Same to you, and the Folsom Street Fair ain't till August" (for some reason there is a huge - and I mean HUGE deal in the gay S&M community for police uniforms)

His partner was doubled over he was laughing so hard. I wish I could have been back at the station for shift change to hear that story.

But the police in SF are great. Never had a problem with them, quite the opposite.

[Diana West]

Comedy is comedy! And comedy can be universal.
CD like every else can be funny.
Milton Berle almost built his career on it.
I would prefer everyone lauging about CD together rather than condemning/ridiculing it.