Is there any continuing reason why the transgendered comunity doesn't break off from the GLBT. I've noticed that the majority of the media events in which the GLBT is involved always puts out in the back 40 like they don't want us there.
Any thoughts?
Danielle
I was just typing about this a minute ago - a gay friend once told me we were looked down upon in the gay community because we "don't belong there, either"
But he drove 2 hours to see Dame Edna... color me confused.
Why don't we start our own 501C and have our own representation.It would seem to be more of a nice change than being lumped into the other comunities.
Anyone want to take that one on?
Danielle
The gay and lesbian communities have been politically active over the years. They've been publicly "out". The bisexual community is closely associated with the GL communities in that the public sees them as part-time homosexual, though it is my understanding the B community feels somewhat abandoned themselves.Originally Posted by Danielle1960
Is there any continuing reason why the transgendered comunity doesn't break off from the GLBT. I've noticed that the majority of the media events in which the GLBT is involved always puts out in the back 40 like they don't want us there.
Any thoughts?
Danielle
The transgendered community is in the closet, except for the few transsexuals who transition, and the drag queens and kings who aren't in "mainstream" society. We don't fight for political rights. Could you imagine going to work en femme one day and in drab the next? Nope, me neither. Won't happen, because we don't fight to make it happen.
The GLB community would take us more seriously if we were more active and out. We're not. They don't associate to help us. They associate to help themselves. If we're not actively out there, they're not going to seek us and hold our hands.
Just my observations and thoughts.
Stephanie
Mac - It really does Just Work
Steph
I agree with your opion and sooner or later (probably later) it will happen. I just see the GLBT group as extreemly self serviing at the cost of alot of clout for us and others.
Danielle
Insightful.
The reasons that the Transgender Community allied with the Gay and Lesbian Communities are strictly for political reasons. The Transgender Community is huge... but unorganized. Adding the "T" to GLB was politically motivated to increase the numbers of the GLBT Community. Their representation in government, to get "equality" laws passed, is better served if backed by a large group of people who feel discriminated against.
How did they, the Gay/Lesbian/Bi Community, justify the association? Because of "Gender" issues. Gay marriage is a "Gender Issue". Transgender is largely a "Gender" issue. Crossdressing or transitioning is a "Gender Issue". Effeminate men or masculine women are being discriminated against because of "Gender Identity Issues". So... it does make sense to join forces as many of the laws that the GLB want to change will make the lives of the Transgender better, also. A lot of progress has already been made in some of the larger cities where "gender identity" cannot be discriminated against.
The reason that the Transgender Community has not split off is because we do not have the clout, organizational skills and political identity that the Gays and Lesbians have already gained. It has taken the GLB Community 30 plus years to get the rights that they deserve. It doesn't make sense for the TG Community to start at the bottom and try to work to the top all by themselves.
Politically speaking... it is working. And, on the brighter side... the GLB and TG Communities are finally embracing each other as they become more educated in each others challenges. Being Gay or Lesbian is not a choice... just as we feel that being CD or TG or TS is not a choice. Education and advocacy are truly making life better for us.
Last edited by Jen_TGCD; 01-20-2005 at 01:20 AM.
[size=3]---Jen--------- [/size][size=1]*[/size]
Cruel Irony
I consider myself bisexual, and I often have trouble finding exactly where I stand with the GLBT community. It does seem that we are often overlooked, but I see efforts to include us more and more. As far as being a CD looked down upon by the glbt communities is concerned, we all need to pull together and become one if we want to be noticed and represented. Instead of splitting us apart, include us too. It's just another stereotype issue. It's cruel irony I think when we are looked down upon by them because we all want the same thing - to have people quit looking down upon us and to accept us! This is a major kink we all need to work on if we want to move foward and gain total acceptance.
I have a lot of male gay friends who have told me (in not so many words) that the reason they don't like to associate with the transgendered is that when they were growing up they were teased and called a sissy etc... And this is my opinion, they ended up trying to be ultra masculine like body building, wearing beards, shaving their heads, wearing leather etc...
[SIZE=3]Michelle
"She's Filing Her Nails While They're Draging the Lake"[/SIZE]
I agree entirely with fractgrrl, we don't shout or fight for our rights so why should anyone else bother to help us. Things will only change if somehow the TG community can act as one and agree that we all have to come out of the closet.
This may happen if young TG people get organized through the internet and agree amongst themselves that it is best if all come out tell their family and friends before they get caught in the self-made trap that comes with relationships/marriage and employment. Once commitments are made and responsibilities are put on our shoulders, we are too afraid to leave the closet.
We need to get a campaign going first in our own communities to urge people, particularly tennangers not to feel guilty but to be proud to be TG and explore its possibilities.
In the meantime our interests are best served by tagging along with the GLBT until we can organize ourselves.
There are some smart ladies making some intelligent observations in this thread. I'm thankful these kinds of discussions are taking place here.
I live in an arch-conservative part of the country, where GLs are still very much marginalized. In fact, I think most of them are only out to each other, not to the straight community. Gay activism may have had some impact here, but overall it is perceived as militancy and consequently alienates more people than it wins over. Moreover, activism has done very little here to disabuse straights of their perception of homosexuality as a perversion.
At the same time, it seems like gays here are prejudiced in varying degrees toward transgenders, and toward crossdressers more than TSs. (This is very difficult for me to understand, but threads like this give me greater insight.) I think many gays think crossdressers suffer some form of identity crisis, and it will take a lot of dialog to help them understand otherwise.
I'm not saying that the transgendered community shouldn't be more politically active, or shouldn't ally itself with gays. I'm not sure. I'll leave that to people smarter than me. But I do believe that politically active or not, all of us must have the courage to quietly wage our own personal campaigns to help straights and gays to accept us as individuals. I have often commented to anti-gays that regardless of how we might feel about political agendas, I have rarely met a gay person I didn't like as a person. In my opinion, that phenomenon has a greater potential for positive influence than marching and sloganeering.
However we choose to further our "cause", we may be fighting for the benefit of the next generation. This is going to take awhile, ladies.
Sherri
From what you say it only reinforces the impression I get that America really is split between the red and blue states. It seems that many in middle America seem proud to be ignorant and intolerant and want things to stay that way. Personally I could not live in that type of society. I don't want to live my life in fear of my neighbours.
I know that there are also many good people in middle America but if they tacitly allow others to be openly bigoted to minority groups then they are failing themselves. Sorry but that's just how I feel.
If the 'T' dropped off the GLBT, who would be our spokesperson? Who would represent us? Who among us would step forward, and out of the closet, to lead the way?
We may have numbers greater than anyone realizes but until we are willing to abandon our secrecy, no one will ever know what those numbers are. Until we are out there marching in protest, no one will hear us. Until we step out of the closet, no one will recognize us.
Separating ourselves from the diverse groups will mean death unless we all are willing to make sacrifices. How many of us are afraid to leave the house dressed? How many of us are afraid to tell our family about us? If we can't do those first all important steps, how can we ever expect our numbers to be recognized by those who make the laws? Politicians bend only when they see their position is threatened. The only way that happens is through an active and large voting block. We have nothing like that anywhere that I know of.
The women's movement was successful because they came out in numbers and voiced their opinions. Same with the gay movement. Imagine a transgendered movement calling for all crossdressers, transgendered and transsexuals to come out and march. Outside of the TS's, it would be like a ghost town.
I'm not criticizing, just stating the facts as I see them. We need the gays and lesbians until we have the courage to stand out in public on our own.
veary hard indeed to voice your (our) thoughts if the closet door is closed and locked
we may feel that what we do is right ...........its who we are..........nouthing wrong with me i just like to dress up in the closet.................safe from prying eyes........
closed minded people...........you know were its safe to be who i realy am...........
free in my closet shades drawn..........doors locked..........lights low ...........as happy and free as i can be...............whats that ????????? a car door...........omg.............
into the stripper mode..............oh nabers ok got away with it.................back to being free................................tell the world i dress in womans things.............ok.....well not my boss .......not my buds ...........not my...........
dose that sound like any you know ?????????????????do you think that anyone will
ever see us in a possitive lite if we can't open the closet and tell the world????????????
in some ways we have been led to belive that what we do is just wrong not the right thing to do .................i would die if.............knew.............well we got a long way to go...............the gays not wanting to accept us as a part of their outting well mabey thay think we would drag them back in to that closet....................
just my 2 cents
I have some opinions on this topic as I am involved in both the CD and the GLBT communities. I am the only 'T' person who attends the local universities GLBT group, and am also the only crossdresser who regularly frequents the local gay drinking establishment. I have encountered a multitude of responses to my presence. Admittedly, at the beginning it was a cold, almost negative response. However, I have come to see that reaction as one driven first and foremost by a lack of education and understanding of who I was within the 'T' community. As my GLB friends got to know me, and understand who I am, their response to me transitioned from grudging acceptance to support and encouragement. I count GLB folk as a major part of my support system, and I hope they count me as part of theirs.
I personally feel that all the GLBT folk belong together, as it truly is a gender issue. Riki Wilkerson's book "Gender Theory/ Queer Theory" has some incredibly wise and timely insight into the needs of the whole community to work together, and how it truly is a gender issue. How much of our rather lack luster view of our acceptance and support from the GLB comunity is a result of mutual lack of understanding of who each other are? How many of us have taken the time to explain what makes us tick to a GLB person, and given them the respect to find out what makes them tick? Yes, there are differences, but until we truly understand our differences we won't be able to grow stronger based on our similiarities.
my 2 cents
Liz
Helana, America is indeed a deeply divided nation on a variety of social and political issues, exacerbated by a policy-making process that in some ways forces polarization. I live in the reddest zone of a red state, although Texas is large enough to contain significant pockets of liberals.
But even in the bluest of the blue states, I dare say you would be hard put to find anything more than lip service when it comes to integration of transgendered persons into mainstream business, society, etc.
Which brings me to a question. Are you saying you live in a community where you, as a transgendered person, do not / would not experience discrimination of some sort? I'd like to know more about such a place.
Liz, not only are you my new heroine, you are living proof of the approach I think will have the greatest impact: person-to-person dialog.
Personally, my biggest fear right now is that I will not do a good job of carrying my end of that dialog.
I have been told this also, many in the gay community does not want to be known as being associated with us what so ever, an image thing. I have also been told that "we" give them a bad image that makes it difficult for gay issues to be taken serisouly.
I am sensitive to many causes and would never embarass anyone intentionally, but I cannot quit being myself. This is nothing new at all, I've been hearing it for years.
Love,
Vickie
We'll form our own group - to heck with them. Like this forum. A great place for all of us to congragate.I have been told this also, many in the gay community does not want to be known as being associated with us what so ever, an image thing. I have also been told that "we" give them a bad image that makes it difficult for gay issues to be taken serisouly.
Love,
Vickie
XOXO,
Racheal
Not all Gay and Lesbians are against us as I can attest to this I frequent a night spot here where I live and found that one is a lot more tolerante of the CDs that the other that is why I now only go to the one that I like. The gays there are great if I wnt to dace I have no problem doing that wether ir be with mySO or with a guy I have a very good relationship with a couple of them there and we do associate out side the club strictly on a plutonic bases and I love it. My wife also knows that there is nothreat to her as she can relate to all of us in a very comfortable way I would like the 2 I like to be on our side wich they are involved in the Glbt movement here on this state. OK gotta go enough rambling for now.
LOVE & HUGS Georgette
Be who you want to be not what others think you should be
On the Road to a better Place
If, God put you there, God will help you through it.
I feel from all my observations that the folks in the so called Red states would be more inclined to ok with the GLBT comunity if there were more active participation by the groups in main stream issues. Of course this is a local thing. My Dad who is old school 80yo and has met some gay gents that he knew for years but didn't have a clue about any of that. He is friends with them still. I think the problem is we (GLBT) tend to be in the closet and only show up at highly charged televised events. The media then makes a cirus about the event and distroys alot of credablity.
In todays soceity we parents (me included) are worried about the safety of our families and changes that we don't want to make. The most common talk show comment on about 10 diffferent programs is the kook fringe element. Our success lies in becoming the main stream. I saw where one elected official was a TG more would be good.
Well off the soap box for now. I'm glad to see all the great input into this thread and I hope it continues. I learn something new at this site daily.
Thanks Girls
Danielle
How about a website?
An official website for us? As far as letting our numbers be seen are concerned, have a guestbook where people can just sign their names. After a period of time, one can see the true numbers of TG people that are out there. We'd have to get the word out obviously, but maybe a major website would help us all come together, and it may make it easier to form ralleys and other things designed to make us more noticed and understood by the public. As far as organization is concerned, have a website for different regions of the country or even world, and link them all together as one major website. I know it will take lots of work, but it may very well be just what we need as a base for getting more noticed worldwide.
Sherri, I know what you mean about the reddest area of a red state. George Bush lands at our college's airport. And Crawford's only like 45 mins away.
The cold hard reality of that is most would be afraid to leave their name on that list for fear of discovery. Many, if not most, crossdressers are deeply hidden in the closet. They feel they have too much to lose to risk being outed.
Until that time comes that the desire to support our culture and educate the mainstream as to who and what we really are is stronger than the fear of losing jobs, breaking up marriages and upseting family and friends, we are stuck right where we are. So until that time comes, we need to remain affiliated with the GLBT community.
This is one of the most worthwhile threads I've read in weeks! Thank you for such interesting insights and thoughtful comments. I really have nothing substantive to add, but I find the discussion fascinating. It's a difficult question to consider. Yes, it is a gender issue, and we are in it w/ the GLB community in that manner, but, we ARE different from them too, so what to do? Just like any group, I don't see why we can't promote ourselves in our own interests alone, but then work in coalition with GLB much like Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition functions. Of course, as others have noted here, we'll have a difficult time gaining any attention alone if the vast majority continues to hide in their closets like a bunch of sissies. Am I a tg or a mouse? Women say "I am woman, hear me roar." What would we say???
Chrissy
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