Why tons of M-to-F's and so few F-to-Ms?

[SlenderGurl]

If this question hasn't been asked by someone, I'd be VERY surprised!

Why are so many of us males into physically feminizing ourselves to enjoy a sexual/quasi-sexual arousal or to feel "whole" as people...while so very few women (in comparative numbers) have a desire or interest in physically masculinizing themselves?

At this moment, for example, there are 77 people on the M-to-F crossdressing forum and just 1 person on the F-to-M forum. The number of posts are similarly skewed far, far to the "M-to-F" side.

With so many smart, insightful "girls" posting on this internet forum, I can't wait to see if anyone has "the answer!"

:be:

[dods460]

I think that the reason has a lot to do with the fact that women for the most part already crossdress, even if they don't know it so it is kind of a non isssue, where as men it is a serious no no for us to dawn make up and walk the streets in a skirt. You watch in 50 years or so I bet there will be 2 people in the m to f and 0 in the f to m, just my

[sonalnarula]

I guess its because the female experience is statistically more desirable and so fewer women want to emulate the other sex. Just my opinion, dont mean to offend anyone.

Sonal

[Tina Dixon]

I think a lot of FtoM can blend in to society more than a 6"3" man in a skirt, just think about it, cut thier hair throw on any male attar and they are there, may get a glance but thats about it as far as crossdressing, now going even farther like transgendered, well I think the FtoM can explain that better than me.

[marie354]

No offense, but... Why would anyone want to be a man. Jeans & T-shirt, suit & tie. The only colorful things for a man are ties, tees, and boxers.
And the shoes....... Black or brown. How drab indeed.
I need colorful clothes.

[TxKimberly]

I'm pretty sure it's because there ARE fewer FTM's than MTF's. Not to mention that your average woman HAS the freedom to wear male clothing if she wants to, and presumably fewer would feel compelled to seek companionship here.
Kim (Dumb as a box of rocks and trying to sound smart!)

[Sweet Jane]

...I suppose almost all women are secure in their femininity, and being feminine after all is more than wearing frillies and skirts.

And while a lot of men are secure in their masculinity, there appears to be a few who need a little more....a pretty femme side too..

[KateW]

I agree that I think crossdressing is more commonplace amongst women anyway, so many probably wouldn't actually label themselves as such. Most women nowadays (sadly) wear trousers on a daily basis, are free to sport short hair styles, and as such wouldn't even consider joining a support group for it.

[mona lisa]

Women basically crossdress every time they do not wear feminine clothing and society accepts that. Hence for a woman to wear a men's sports jersey, shirt, pants, shoes, etc. no one says much about it now. But fifty plus years ago it was different. Whatever one says about those days, at least things were consistent: there were men's clothes and women's clothes and one did not wear the clothes of the other. Back then, some women challenged that standard and over time it became accepted for women to wear what was previously considered "men's clothes." I am sure the war helped in that area to no small degree too. But there has been nothing of a similar situation to make these matters consistent -hence you have women who are angered by their boyfriends or husbands wearing feminine clothing but somehow if men acted the same way and insisted that women only wear dresses and the like, the word "discrimination" and other such words would be thrown around.

But because they are not and because it is acceptable to some extent for women in society to "dress like men" but not acceptable for men to "dress like women", that explains the disparity on this site probably as good as anything else. I think we can blame the attitude of many feminists for this: they cultivated the mentality that feminine dress, attitudes, and the like were somehow "demeaning" or constituted a "lesser-class citizen." Look for example at how those sorts treat women who choose to be stay at home sorts and you will see what the problem is.

To some extent a cross-dresser in the eyes of people with that mentality is taking the clothes of a "lesser being" or somehow it is viewed as "demeaning" when men dress in "women's clothes" but not when women dress in "men's clothes." This double standard is implied whenever a cross-dressing woman takes issue with a man for cross-dressing. No one presumes that a cross-dressing woman must be a lesbian (though some of them may well be) but a man who cross-dresses *must* be gay according to these people. Again, an arbitrary double standard.

There are things of value in what is traditionally female, in clothing, in outlooks, etc. Perhaps if cross-dressing becomes uniformally accepted this will be realized but probably not until then (if that even happens at all).

[Marla S]

My

1.) Woman have a by far wider range of options to express themselve through their appearence - from ultra fem to boyish. Hence, there is just less need to crossdress. Only if they come close to transitioning (being TS) it becomes crossdressing and they have to face social repression too.

(Crossdressing for men or at least being suspicious of being gay almost starts if you wear a pink shirt or apply moisturizer in the morning)

2.) Desirable masculine traits are usually not associated with the appearence, but with independence, economical and political power, money, physical strength, education.
Women's movement opened the door to this "typical" masculine traits for women.
This is the women's field of "crossdressing". You will find the reverse proportions here (i.e. more female managers than male houswifes (by choice), more female soldiers than male midwifes, more female boxers than male belly dancers).

3.) Women lack testosterone, which helps a bit to smooth things out instead of going to the extremes (i. e. emulating a man).

[Kieron Andrew]

we had this question on another forum and this what i said and i still stick by it

'i believe this is not strictly true.....i believe alot of FTMs dont come out for many reasons........MTFs are just more obvious because of the obvious change of clothing, women have been wearing men's clothing for centuries so it is so much easier to hide any gender related issue to a certain point, whilst i do believe the percentage of MTFs are greater but not considerably so

one reason i think is because there are lots of offline support groups aimed at mtfs and not ftms so therefore there is an underlying lack of support for ftms to feel they can 'come out'

[Marla S]

'i believe this is not strictly true.....i believe alot of FTMs dont come out for many reasons........MTFs are just more obvious because of the obvious change of clothing, women have been wearing men's clothing for centuries so it is so much easier to hide any gender related issue to a certain point, whilst i do believe the percentage of MTFs are greater but not considerably so

That's an interesting thought, because I sometimes think that I maybe wouldn't even consider myself a CD crossdresser or having gender issues with a bit more "freedom". I might have to rethink that.

[pocoyo]

Hi it's late and I'm tired so haven't bothered to read the other replies yet (will tomorrow) sorry!

I just wanted to say that it's interesting how most of the ftms here aren't even "crossdressers" as such but seem to be transexual. There is only 1 or 2 that I know who profess to be soley a crossdresser and are totally happy with their birth gender.

I guess maybe there aren't many "crossdresser" ftms because women dress in men's clothes anyway, so those that "come out" as being transgendered and seek others on boards such as these, are usually those who are transexual/gender dysphoric, and struggling with their gender.

[SlenderGurl]

I'm so impressed with most of the 10 replies to my question (thus far). Some of you -- I have to single out mona lisa and Marla S from Germany -- provided nothing short of brilliant insights.

And Tina, Sweet Jane, TxKimberly -- you all make great sense, too. Women can crossdress at will without even raising a ripple; we see entirely unadorned, jeans-and-shirt-wearing women walking around every day.

I suppose a minimum standard for a woman who's a F-to-M might have to expand to include such relative intangibles as classically male personality traits (whatever those are), and a complete lack of interest in feminine clothes/jewelry/cosmetics.

Funny, but women are entirely free to have strong interests in what once were considered the exclusive domain of men: pick-up trucks, cigar smoking, football, target shooting, you name it. At least one of you pointed out how the women's movement opened everything up, and you couldn't be more right.

Thanks for your two cents' worth...it was worth a lot more!

[pocoyo]

I suppose a minimum standard for a woman who's a F-to-M might have to expand to include such relative intangibles as classically male personality traits (whatever those are), and a complete lack of interest in feminine clothes/jewelry/cosmetics.

Funny, but women are entirely free to have strong interests in what once were considered the exclusive domain of men: pick-up trucks, cigar smoking, football, target shooting, you name it. At least one of you pointed out how the women's movement opened everything up, and you couldn't be more right.

If a woman (who's happy to be a woman, non ftm,) is dressed in shirts and stuff though (in a plain way, not a pretty little cowgirl type way) she often gets frowned upon, seen as ugly, frumpy and sometimes called a lesbian even if she isn't one. It's not all plain sailing for them.

Also they might be free to have traditionally "masculine" interests but a lot of men seem to see it either as "sweet" or weird. Like a novelty thing rather than taking them seriously. I never usually would say anything about how it is to be a female (seeing as I'm not a proper one), but having lived as one at times, I can tell you that it can be such hard work and so frustrating and painful to prove that you are not inferior to the men around you.

[Kate Simmons]

I believe Kieron is right. I believe there are a lot of F T M's out there but they lack the support systems to pursue being themselves. A lot of folks have these feelings but go through life filling their "assigned" role and never demonstrate those feelings openly. I have a few female cousins who can lick their weight in wildcats, like sports and go hunting with their Dad but they went ahead and had families anyway despite their propensities. I still can't beat either of them at arm wrestling, wuss that I am, or would want to cross them. I respect them for who they are regardless. Let's face it, for whatever reason, M T F's are a dime a dozen. I find it refreshing that we have guys here who want to be recognized for who they really are and I for one am all for it.

[SlenderGurl]

Oops, I forgot to add one thing:

All the great points said, I still agree with TxKimberly (and my original supposition): there ARE more M-to-Fs than F-to-Ms, even after counting in those F-to-Ms that don't stand out because any woman can don "menswear" without standing out.

And I have a hunch that the insight offered by Marla S is at the root of this seeming gender disparity: testosterone. Men are more sexually charged than women by a country mile, by their genetic and hormonal nature. And that energy just more often finds nontraditional or "alternative" ways to manifest itself. Think of the incredible spectrum of behaviors for gay men (a few of them unfortunately self-destructive) vs. gay women.

The other question that's been rolling around in my head is also not original: is the desire to dress more "nature" or "nurture?" I suspect both, with a maybe heavier influence from childhood and even adult environmental factors. I know a lot of fellow CDs won't agree, but that's half the fun...

[CaptLex]

I guess its because the female experience is statistically more desirable and so fewer women want to emulate the other sex. Just my opinion, dont mean to offend anyone.

Nah . . . that's not it.

I think a lot of FtoM can blend in to society more than a 6"3" man in a skirt, just think about it, cut thier hair throw on any male attar and they are there, may get a glance but thats about it as far as crossdressing, now going even farther like transgendered, well I think the FtoM can explain that better than me.

You are very wise, Red!

No offense, but... Why would anyone want to be a man. Jeans & T-shirt, suit & tie. The only colorful things for a man are ties, tees, and boxers. And the shoes....... Black or brown. How drab indeed. I need colorful clothes.

I could explain to you why someone would want to be a man, but that might take all night - how much time you got? BTW, I have colorful male clothes and a suit & tie has the same effect on me that frilly stuff has on some of you girls.

Because men are nasty, smelly, and gross. Women are beautiful.

I agree that women are beautiful, but (trust me on this) men are HOT!

I agree that I think crossdressing is more commonplace amongst women anyway, so many probably wouldn't actually label themselves as such. Most women nowadays (sadly) wear trousers on a daily basis, are free to sport short hair styles, and as such wouldn't even consider joining a support group for it.

Very good, Kate.

To some extent a cross-dresser in the eyes of people of people with that mentality is taking the clothes of a "lesser being" or somehow it is viewed as "demeaning" when men dress in "women's clothes" but not when women dress in "men's clothes."

I agree on this point, but . . .

No one presumes that a cross-dressing woman must be a lesbian

. . . guess again!

Why tons of M-to-F's and so few F-to-Ms?

Actually there are several reasons - most of them covered well here. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that there are plenty of women who would rather not wear skirts, heels, make-up, long hair, etc., but they're not considered FtM until they start to question themselves and come to realize they may have a male side to their personality (even if they also have a female side). Conversely, an MtF (whether CD or TS) will immediately be crossdressing as soon as they don any female attire.

As to why there less FtMs here (or anywhere else for that matter), it's basically because even we don't generally know that there are other people out there like us and don't know where to go for support since places like this one are very hard to find.

[Kieron Andrew]

as we know being crossdressers/transgendered for many its more than just about clothes alone.....hense my earlier comment stands........

[pocoyo]

Good one Lex
I totally agree with everything you've said Captain. I had those exact thoughts when reading this myself (I did read more of it in the end!)

I hope you are listened-to, seeing as we actually are ftm's, and as such, do happen to rather know something about it!.....

[CaptLex]

Ironically, the testosterone, besides improving my libido and overall well being, helped bring out my feminine side again.

We're not too different, Jennifer. The testosterone that my body naturally produces (which had been suppressed by female hormones) brought out my masculinity and started me crossdressing again (and we won't even talk about the libido).

[kerrianna]

Actually there are several reasons - most of them covered well here. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that there are plenty of women who would rather not wear skirts, heels, make-up, long hair, etc., but they're not considered FtM until they start to question themselves and come to realize they may have a male side to their personality (even if they also have a female side). Conversely, an MtF (whether CD or TS) will immediately be crossdressing as soon as they don any female attire.

As to why there less FtMs here (or anywhere else for that matter), it's basically because even we don't generally know that there are other people out there like us and don't know where to go for support since places like this one are very hard to find.

I was going to weigh in on this, being the know-it-all that I am, but had to cook my sweetie dinner first, and come back to find the Capt has said exactly what I was going to say. ...sigh...what a man! No wonder he is captain.

[SIZE="1"]psst, I was with you all the time Capt., I was just playing along with the troublemakers, and I do have a weakness for pirate kittens[/SIZE]

[CaptLex]

I was going to weigh in on this, being the know-it-all that I am, but had to cook my sweetie dinner first, and come back to find the Capt has said exactly what I was going to say. ...sigh...what a man! No wonder he is captain.

[SIZE="1"]psst, I was with you all the time Capt., I was just playing along with the troublemakers, and I do have a weakness for pirate kittens[/SIZE]

You're one of the wise and caring ones, Kerrianna, which is why you're always welcome on the ship (the FtM side).

P.S. The pirate kitty was cute!

[Shannon CD]

I guess that what it can all be reduced to is the age old question "what is a crossdresser?"

In my opinion, whenever you don an article of clothing deemed to be of the opposite sex (i.e. dresses are for women, dress shirts are for men) then you could, by most definitions, be labled a "crossdresser".

The point has been made here that women have been free to do this for some time now, with little or no repurcussions, depending on the extent to which they dress. Just go to a ball game and you will see almost as many women wearing the team jersey as you do men. Are they all CD's? The general public does not think so. BUT, if you went to any other type of event where most men were obviously wearing blouses or carrying a purse eyebrows would be raised. I'm sure that every one of them would be labeled as such.

Most heterosexual or bisexual MtF Cds here would agree (as would quite a few gay MtF CDs and FtM Cds, I'm sure) that a pretty woman in panties (sorry Tamara) and a man's white, button down dress shirt is considered to be one of the sexiest images known, but she is not a crossdresser.

Now reverse that. Can anyone think of an example of a man wearing something feminine being considered just as sexy by the mass population? Help me out here, because I simply cannot.

The fact is that it takes little in the way of a man wearing female clothes for him to be considered a CD. On the other hand a woman must go to extremes to draw the attention of the public, and even then I have seen some very sexy and glamourous women who continue to look sexy and glamourous when dressed in a man's 3 piece suit.

Maybe in 50 years men will be wearing clothes once thought to be for women and not even think of themselves as crossdressers. Stranger things have happened. As a matter of fact, I cannot help but to think about the images of our founding fathers in those buckled shoes, white tights, wigs, and very flamboyant jackets and ruffled shirts and wonder if they realized that in the future those fashions would be more closely associated with femininity than masculinity. Things are cyclical, including fashions.

In closing I would like to add that part of the attraction to wearing women's clothing, for me, has a lot to do with the fact that it is not "acceptable". The taboo nature adds dimension and excitement whenever I slide on a pair of pantyhose. Would any of us even be crosdressers if it were not for this aspect?

Just my humble observations.

[Alice Torn]

I totally agree with Slendergirl, Mona Lisa. I live in the same house, with a 48 year old gg, who has not put on feminine clthes, since childhood. The only dresses, skirts, lady shoes, hose, and jewelry, are mine! Talk about ROLE REVERSAL!! I remember 1971. That is when the girls were first allowed to wear pants, to my high school. I noticed a definite change, in their attitudes, too, and, it has never been the same! An old 78 year old sage, said, deep down, in the hearts of all women, is at least just a tiny bit, or more, resentfulness ,that they are female, resenting that men are the stronger sex, and heaeds of the home. You may take issue with this, and certainly it is less true, in some gg's. But, it is unmistakable, that gg's tend to usurp male authority, and they HAVE rebelled, and the wearing of men's clothes, and no one says anything, IS a double standard. It is a form of their inner rebellion, even if they don't realize it! Since society says that MTF crossdressing is a perversion, it also should brand FTM crossdressing(though most don't consider it crossdressing), a perversion. Like one said, 50 years ago, it would have been looked on, as very odd, for women to wear men's clothes, and cut their hair short, like a man's. I remember an early Comet commercial, in the early 60's, with a lady plumber in it. It was considered funny. With the feminization of our society, it is still taboo, for guys to dress up, largely, but nothing is said about women dressing in men's clothes, all of the time. A huge double standard. But, it seems, that down through history, the males have always had more expected of them, including to tame the frontier, protect, and lead. J. Edgar Hoover, I heard, was a crossdresser, and he led a powerful FBI, for decades.