Back handed permission!

[lady lycra]

My wife and I had a rather large disussion-leading to row the other night about my cross dressing.

We both agreed to seek help from a counsellor and other people.
We have other problems with our sex life, not just my crossdressing.
We went to bed very late, and after mcuh more discussion we fimally fell asleep.

I opened up to her more than ever before.

The next day when she nwent to work, I found a load of UK based "My husband is a crossdresser" type web sites, Vernon Coleman's being the better.

The next night I went out for a bike ride, and before I went out I told her about the bookmarks, and asked her to have a read if she feels up to it.
Nothing more was said.

Last night she mentioned that she has read what I asked.
A lengthy discussion followed. No anger, no "your a twisted pervert" comments, just a nice honest pen chat.

I told her that when we were teenagers, I used to try on her clothes, I told her about the stockings, supsender and pantie set that I used to hide behind the television in my bedroom. I told her about the her mother almost catching me in her (my wifes) red mini dress.

I told her about the black knit dress that I wear regularly, how I have worn her swim suit, how I've spent the morning dressed in short skirt and tights.

I told her almost every occasion that I have dressed. I even admitted to my ability to tie myself into her PVC basque (something she is unable to do)
I told her about my excitement about the netball kits, especially the team kit.
I told her that almost every day this week I've worn one or the other, and how I did ALL the housework in my training kit.

She understood, and was very caring.
I told mer about my favouriet panties. She told me that she dislikes wearing them. She suggested that I take them from her knicker draw and out them in mine!

I've told her my fantasies, and wishes. I told her how i'd love a pair of shoes of my own that actually fit. Nothing too fancy just a pair of balck heels, so that when I wear the knit dress I can finish the look off.

I also told her that I tend to only wera stuff that she doesn't anymore. She was very woried about losing her identity. She now knows that she has no such worries.

As a result of this talk, I'm now the proud owner of a short black knit dress, two pairs of panties, a blue swimsuit, two pairs of opaque black tights, A PVC basque, a short fake leather skirt with a red blouse to wear with it and a short black off the shoulder dress.

This is where it gets confusing though. She isn't ready to see me dressed up.
She hasn't given me permission to dress up when she's away.
She doesn't want me to ever go out dressed (except for netball!!!!)

So basically, she's not giving me permission, but she's laid down what I can wear without upsetting her too much. It's like "do it, but I don't want to know"

This is a HUGE step. Even though she's bought me the bike gear, given me the netball kit etc, the thought of me wearing it isn't a happy one for her.

She has said that she MIGHT buy me some clothes of my own, and she MIGHT help me get a pair of shoes. ( This shoe shopping trip has been planned in my head already) This will be some time off I would imagine.

We are still going to seek help, as my wife needs "un-biased" reassuring that I'm not gay, and that I don't want to be a woman full time etc etc etc.
I think that it will be a great weight off me too. Talking to someone face to face about my biggest secret will be very exciting and liberating.

Needless to say, when my wife returns home tonight, she'll come home to a spotless house. Now, what shall I wear when I'm doing it?

I'll still be very careful about putting stuff away, but when she see my favouite panties hanging up to dry, she'll kow it wasn't her who wore them

This is truly a magic moment in Linda's life. I need to keep momentum but without pushing too hard. If I can show that my wife will benefit or even not have any negative feelings, then I beleive that before too long my wife and Linda might become friends, if only occasional ones.

I think it was my netball experience that made her realise just how important this is to me. I also think that taught her that I can be a complete girly AND still a man. The man she married.

I am truly a very happy and excited bunny this morning.
Wish me luck

Linda

[Tristen Cox]

Sounds great to me. Lots of good progress there Go with it, and good luck!


Love & hugs
Tristen

[Helana]

Great news Linda. Its nice to see that you know how to look after your wife. She is going out on a limb for you so its important that she gets a return on the risk she is taking (gosh I sound like a financial advisor!). Have fun cleaning the house.

[ChristineRenee]

Nice story there Linda. Don't forget to treat her like the special lady she is now.


Love,
Christine Renee

[Teddie]

Yes, treat her like the special lady that she is. Buy her something VERY nice, like roses.

[racheal]

That's a GREAT story Linda! Way to go Girl! You must be very proud. Now build on that relationship - bit by bit and you'll grow more together than what you have ever been before! Good show and a job well done!

[Holly]

Linda,

What a week you have had, girlfriend! I'm so happy for you <hug>. And you have the right attitude. Just keep taking it a step at a time like you are doing. Remember, you're both exploring where the boundaries are. Too bad there have to be any at all .

Speaking to a counselor sounds as if it could be a very exciting experience. Please let us know how that goes.

[lady lycra]

Thanks for all the comments.
I have just gathered together all the clothes I like to wear and put them all in a drawer. Everything.

I'll be out on the bike again tonight, before I leave, I will ask my wife to go through my collection and take out anything she doesn't want me to have.
Everything in my collection is stuff that she no longer wears, and that's not because I've hidden it away

I don't want to push, but I need to keep the ball rolling. Otherwise we'll go back to our old ways.

It will be interesting to see how much is left in the drawer
I never thought that I'd be able to take my stash out of hiding.
How wonderfully liberating

Linda

[racheal]

That's right Linda - don't push - just let things progress naturally. She will grow stronger with you...

[AmberDay]

This is where it gets confusing though. She isn't ready to see me dressed up.
She hasn't given me permission to dress up when she's away.
She doesn't want me to ever go out dressed (except for netball!!!!)

Linda

Don't Push! I had the same problem with my wife, but the harder I pushed, the worse it got. I had so many restrictions placed against me like your wife put on you. Agree to it. Compromise is the key to understanding. I started off only allowed to dress in panties when she wasn't around, but as time went on, I gradually educated her a little more. Understand that society doesn't see us as normal. I feel normal like the rest of you, but I do accept the stigma of being a crossdresser, and honestly I can see society's side of it.

I talked to my wife once a month about my hobby until she is accepting of me. I am now allowed to buy things, ask for unbaised fashion advice, wear satin gowns in front of her, and occasionally wear an outfit (dress with hose and heels, etc). I am not allowed to wear make up and a wig in front of her, which is understandable. One of my desires is to make love with my wife and I wearing teddies. She won't go for that now. For one she hates wearing girl clothes (go figure). And since she won't wear teddies, then I'm not allowed to either :mad: . Granted it is perfectly okay for her to wear a mens flannel shirt when we make love, but hey that's how it is.

Recently, my wife has okay'd me to go out dressed to certain areas. I am allowed to go to gas stations, video return drop boxes, ATMs, basicly anyplace where I won't be face to face with anybody. I have to respect that, because I'm not ready to be face to face with anybody yet. The only thing other then wearing teddies that I want to do is attend support group meetings. She won't allow me to do that because she claims she is all the support I need. I need her support and am glad I have it, but I need to interact with other crossdressers face to face to prove I'm not alone. That is one issue I am working on with her and I know if I don't push, she will let me attend. Good luck with your wife, Tell her you need her and love her everyday. God knows I can't live without my wife.

Amber

[lady lycra]

Tell her you need her and love her everyday. God knows I can't live without my wife.
Amber

Amen to that Amber.
After reading what I found for her, she seemed a lot more ready to accept.
She is still a far way off from being comfortable with it. She is learning the fun side though and some of the benefits (boy you should see the house, it's spotless).
She is also certain of my love for her and that splitting up is not even in the equation.

I have no intentions of pushing her. Nudging a little maybe, but not pushing.
My gathering of my stash and asking her to go through it is a continuatiuon of the discussion we had last night. I listed most of the items in my stash and she seemed happy with them. Now the onus is on here to say yes or no.
Whatever her answers, I'll stand by them.
If she asked haver I dress up today, I will be honest and say yes.
I will tell her what I wore and for how long. I'm not going to hide anymore as I feel that there is nothing to hide from. I've told her everything.
From now on I will be totally open about when I dress and what I wear.

She knows that I am unable to stop, so denying me my pleasures will only drive it "underground" again. I think she'd rather me be open and honest.

Linda

[racheal]

That is so true! It's hard to find a partner who can know and trust you.

[Ashleigh]

A wife who is honestly trying is golden. You are doing it right by taking your time and letting things happen naturally as well as helping her with the chores. Time is on your side. Continue to pour your heart out to her and listen - listen - listen when she pours hers out to you.

Best of luck.

[Georgette]

Yes Yes take it slow and easy by all means I went a little overboard or should I say a little overbroad, any way be kind be gentle be passionet especially to her as she may think she has competion from Linda show her that is the tender side of you and be a girlfriend for her to confide in I know since I have been out to my wife and a few relatives it has been easier for me and her we have grown closer in the past few months since she met Georgette and we do more together now than ever.
As I can't stress it enough pamper her love her be a best friend to her.I hope this makes sence to you as I just get to rambling and I can't seem to quit sometimesLOL.

[Paula A]

Linda;
I too had just told my wife about Paula to "let her in on my life's biggest secret". we are going through the same things that you and your wife are going through. I am fortunate that she is understanding to its the way people are made. BUT she is not sure how to, or if she can handle it. Last night she asked me to dress for her, I said No - I can't believe it. I not sure if she or I am ready for that. I just gave her the bigest "slap in the face" shock of her life and everything she thought was the normal has just been flipped upside down, So I said no. I don't know if it's because i don't want to shock her or if I don't want to see her reaction. or both.

Sounds like you two are on the right track. Just take it slow and carefully and always consider her thoughts and feelings. Even if she thinks she is ready it will be a shock. So with everything you do consider how and what she will think about it first. Good luck and above all have fun.

[sherri]

May I comment, very humbly and utterly respectful of the difficulty you describe, that if I were faced with this situation, I might employ a strategy of proving to her that in accomodating this aspect of me, she's actually getting more bang for her buck? Obviously I'm not in your particular shoes and not all women are the same, but if she's resistant, the following are things I might try.

First, I would seek ways to demonstrate to her in positive ways that certain things she likes about me are the result of the feminine influence on my personality. Housecleaning and roses are certainly very nice things to do, but I'm speaking about personality, emotions, intuition, communication, rapport. I would also talk about how her femininity inspires me, makes me be more in love with her and her alone, that in some ways my feminization is a form of immitation — the sincerest form of flattery — of her specifically, not just women in general.

At the same time, I would go to great lengths to be the man a woman needs to feel secure and complete. Reassure her that I can still fix the sink and protect her and be a father for our kids and not jeopardize my career or our livelihood. In this respect, putting a new battery in the car is much more reassuring to her than cleaning the house. In short, I would want her to feel that not only is she getting a more sensitive and interesting man than other women have, she's not missing out on anything other women have, either.

Another huge thing for most women is social status, or more accurately, standing in the community. I might not care what other people think, but she does, and my disregard would scare her. What other people think of me is also a reflection upon her; her identity is tied up with mine, and vice versa. Consequently, any form of coming out in the community could be very threatening for her, so the intitiative would have to be left up to her and outings would have to be carefully orchestrated to fit within her comfort zone.

The bedroom is tricky. If I'm honest, I must admit I don't want to go to bed with a hairy-legged woman wearing army boots. But I could probaby get into her wearing my boxers and a strap-on sometimes, if on other nights she would wear heels and that sexy nightie ... or nothing at all. (I'm oversimplifying, but you know what I mean.) So maybe it's asking too much to expect her to welcome me into bed fully made up. But perhaps she could handle smooth legs and once in awhile, maybe lipstick and panties, just to break the ice?

I mean, after all, I don't know about y'all, but after 10 years of making love to the same person, a little spice can be nice, know what I mean? And there aren't many people who haven't been curious or fantasized at least a little bit about same-gender sex. What better way in a monogamous relationship to experience a little of that than some harmless gender swapping? "Hmmm, this could be a good thing ... let's try this ..."

I'm just brainstorming, y'all.

[DonnaT]

Linda, been there, still there. My wife and I have been working it out for 29 years. Some days are encouraging others not. So, it may take a while for her to get to where you'd like, then again she may never get there.

Good luck and God speed.

[Celeste GG]

Now your wife needs to find something for herself, the thing that turns her on.

My ex husband suggested "pottery classes" as something that might be an interest for me, when I was feeling restless and lost interest in sex with him... I chose leaving and becoming a Mistress.... but it sounds like your wife is into PVC already!

[Sarah38b]

I don't mean to sound insensitive and I appologize if y'all think it is. What I don't understand is why a grown up adult has to take orders from a spouse/partner on when to dress and not to dress, where you can dress and where not to dress. That makes no sense to me. You have a free will to do as you please. Please help me understand this.

Sarah

[Holly]

I don't mean to sound insensitive and I appologize if y'all think it is. What I don't understand is why a grown up adult has to take orders from a spouse/partner on when to dress and not to dress, where you can dress and where not to dress. That makes no sense to me. You have a free will to do as you please. Please help me understand this.

Sarah

Sarah,
I think you're missing the point here. This is NOT anything to do with taking orders or free will. It has EVEYTHING to do with respect, compassion, love, understanding, relationship, and sensitivity to those who are special to you. Acceptance in any endevor is not crammed down someone's throat. Acceptance is MUTUALLY agreed upon by both parties. Shoving something, anything, in anyone's face just because you can will not generally endear you to them.

Sarah, I don't think your question is insensitive. I think we all need to do a better job of earning the respect and acceptance not only of our partners, family and friends, but to society in general. Society already has a bias against us as crossdressers. It's up to us to win them over through our love, our passion, and our desire to be accepted in the mainstream. My biggest dream is that will eventually happen. Until that time, is good that we have one another.

Love You,

[AmberDay]

I don't mean to sound insensitive and I appologize if y'all think it is. What I don't understand is why a grown up adult has to take orders from a spouse/partner on when to dress and not to dress, where you can dress and where not to dress. That makes no sense to me. You have a free will to do as you please. Please help me understand this.

Sarah

I'll put my two cents in, (I may be able to afford more when I get my tax refund). I don't take orders from my wife. She doesn't take any orders from me. (she already knows she has to have my food on the table when I get home --- I'm Just KIDDING!!!!!) What it is, is respect. My wife and I know that I could divorce her and dress all day everyday, and do whatever I wanted to. I could wear what I want, chat with anybody I want to, go out anywhere dressed by myself. I don't want to be by myself. (And also pay a fortune in child support.) The truth is that I love my wife like Linda does. I would rather die than be alone without her. I do admit that if my wife strongly and constantly prohibited my crossdressing, than it would not work between us. That means she does not accept me. What we are doing Sarah, is giving our loved ones means to cope with something completely unnatural (in societies view anyway ). Take this viewpoint. Your wife that you loved and thought was very femm with long brown hair and wears dresses, comes home one day with her head shaved, tattoos up and down her arms, peircings everywhere, wearing combat pants. That would be a shock. I know I couldn't and wouldn't tolerate it. However, if my wife told me that she would like to start wearing her hair shorter, and not be so femm because she is uncomfortable with it, I would be willing to work with her on it. (Maybe a short hair cut, and combat pants everynow and then, I won't budge on the piercings though, lol). You can't just go up to your wife in Full Glory and tell her, "Here I am! Let me do what I want or I'm gone!" That is not how married people act. Married people Love, honor, cherish, and respect each other. I don't mean to 'slap' you down Sarah, I don't mean for this to come across harsh. I just hope I can answer your question.


Amber

[lady lycra]

I agree with Amber and Holly.

It's not taking orders. In this house I wear the trousers

No, seriously, my wife is the only wage earner, I gave up being a maintennance electrician to be a full time dad. My wife is an Accountant working for a very Large firm. She's in a man's role, in charge of men, having meetings where she is the only female around the table, she's often the one holding the meeting.
She's a high powered, highly respected highly skilled woman in a man's world.
She even admitted to me the other night during our discussion, that she is losing her femininity. It's not deliberate, but it's what has happened over many years of being in the role she is ( she also has a medical conditon that has given her slightly raised male hormones). Being the only bread earner, paying the bills, etc etc etc, All the things that the man normally does she does. I stay at home, Cleaning, cooking, washing, looking after our son etc etc etc.
We have role reversed.
She never wears skirts at home anymore. Most of her work suits are trouser suits. At homes it's jeans or slacks with a T-shirt.
I suggested that she has unknowingly became a crossdresser herself.
She thought about this and reailised that this is "kind of" the case.

I also suggested that if it's OK for her to dress in a male fashion (all the clothes she has are designed for females) then what is so wrong with me wearing a skirt or a pair of panties.

This was one of the bigger turning points in our problem.
She still isn't happy with me dressing as a woman, but she had began to realise that it is just clothing. My wife doesn't get the sexual thrill of wearing jeans that I get from wearing a dress, but she undertsands that just as she is more comfortable in jeans, I am comfortable in a skirt.

She hasn't given me orders. I don't give them to her.
We'll ask one another to do or not do various things, but we never give orders.
Any relationship based on orders is doomed for failiure.

Yes it's my right to dress how I please, but it's also my right to have an affair.
It not illegal to have an affair.
I would never think about having an affair, like I would never think about upsetting my wife by (openly) doing things that she really doesn't want me to.

It's not taking orders.... It's keeping the peace.

Linda

[Helana]

WOW!

Some great posts in this thread - I think this should be made a sticky so that everyone can read them for a long time to come.

Sherri - that was a fantastic description that I agree with 100% and your points come across much better than I could ever. Thats already saved on my hard drive.

Holly and Amber are right on the mark about how CDing should be treated in a loving relationship.

Girls, the stuff that is being posted here is 100 times more illuminating and introspective than any analysis you will ever get from a psychologist.

Keep it coming!

[Helana]

I just want to add some personal thoughts to Sherri's paragraph

First, I would seek ways to demonstrate to her in positive ways that certain things she likes about me are the result of the feminine influence on my personality. Housecleaning and roses are certainly very nice things to do, but I'm speaking about personality, emotions, intuition, communication, rapport. I would also talk about how her femininity inspires me, makes me be more in love with her and her alone, that in some ways my feminization is a form of immitation — the sincerest form of flattery — of her specifically, not just women in general.

I got some intersting feedback from my girlfriend. When I was crossdressed I was a nicer person, much more talkative, more sensitive, more engaging. She noticed how these traits were being carried over into my male personality. Basically as I combined the two halfs of me into a whole, the result was a much better person overall.

Now there are times when I stop CDing for a few weeks at a time - often this is triggered by work stress. During these times she notices that my positive feminine traits begin to disappear and I slowly return back to my stoic standoffish male personality. Communication between us then begins to suffer as I do not feel like engaging her as much. Now, when she sees me deterioating back into the male me she tells me that I should dress up again to get back my balance.

She sees the benefit of my CDing, it does not just make me a better person but improves our relationship. She loves the "whole" me, but the "male only" me can be a pain in the neck.

Sherri also mentioned about social standing. My girlfriend is very anxious about this and does not want me to go out dressed in my home town. Now we are arranging weekend getaways where we book an overnight stay in hotels several hours drive away. She has no problem letting me be dressed 100% of the time and we have had a blast - shopping, restaurants, watching movies, clubbing. She has a great time, even more so knowing that I am having the time of my life fully dressed. These are wonderful weekends and they are bringing us closer together.

Hope this post will be helpful to others.

[Tamara Croft]

I got some intersting feedback from my girlfriend. When I was crossdressed I was a nicer person, much more talkative, more sensitive, more engaging. She noticed how these traits were being carried over into my male personality. Basically as I combined the two halfs of me into a whole, the result was a much better person overall.

Now there are times when I stop CDing for a few weeks at a time - often this is triggered by work stress. During these times she notices that my positive feminine traits begin to disappear and I slowly return back to my stoic standoffish male personality. Communication between us then begins to suffer as I do not feel like engaging her as much. Now, when she sees me deterioating back into the male me she tells me that I should dress up again to get back my balance.

She sees the benefit of my CDing, it does not just make me a better person but improves our relationship. She loves the "whole" me, but the "male only" me can be a pain in the neck.

I can totally relate to this.... this is exactly how Tammy is work constantly gets her down and our relationship suffers because of it. But I have noticed her femme side sneaking into her male side. But you all have someone on here to talk to about it, you can relate to each others feelings and issues. There is hardly any GG's on here or they just don't talk much. I think the GG's are more in the closet than the CD's.