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Thread: Social Experiment

  1. #1
    ...likes lingerie.
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    Social Experiment

    I know I've been talking about "giving it up" the past couple days, but oh well. I was out and about today, and decided to do a little experiment. I figure the response to male presence in a traditionally female-only location of a store is more accepted this time of year, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

    I entered the mall at JC Penney's, and headed straight for the lingerie department. Nobody, aside from a youngish SA, was in there. She really didn't seem to mind me being there, and even asked how I was doing. I didn't buy anything, but looked extensively through what was available. In particular, I was looking for a racerback bra, but thought I'd check out the rest of the racks, just to see what they had. Either I am blind or they didn't have any racerbacks, so I decided to head on down to the next store.

    Where else would I end up but Victoria's Secret. I kinda slinked in through the front door, and off to one of the side-rooms. I looked the walls and tables over and saw no racerbacks, so I headed back to where there were SA's and customers. There was one guy in there, and he would pass for a CD'er far before I would. He looked at me, gave me the nod, and affixed his sights on the SA right away. Nobody said a word to me in there, and I was fully expecting to be hovered over by a SA. The closest I found to a racerback was the same cotton bra, only in a normal back-close. I looked around a little more then left, again empty-handed.

    Next, to Macy's. I found it hard to believe how big the store was and that they would tuck the "Intimates" department clear in a side room, far away from the women's clothing section. At any rate, I found one racerback in the entire selection there, and it was being heavily guarded by a rough old woman. I didn't feel like asking her to move, and it would have been kinda obvious that it wasn't so much a Christmas present due to the fact that it was plain white and not the traditional flamboyant colors and such that a gift normally would be. I left the store empty-handed and with a really bad taste in my mouth. Not only did that one customer ruin the experience, the SA's in EVERY department were staring me down like I was going to shoplift.

    I decided I'd had enough of the mall and went to Wal-Mart. I had high hopes that they'd have a racerback bra there, but they didn't. I almost bought a longline, because those too have intrigued me for a long while, but decided not to. I ended up heading back to the sporting goods and looked at gun cleaning supplies instead.

    So all in all, nothing special happened. I do know that my personal attitude towards it has changed tremendously since my first bra purchase, as this time I didn't feel like I wanted to vomit afterwards. It's also very interesting to see the expressions on peoples' faces when a guy walks into the bra and panty section and starts flipping through the clearance rack.

    The result of the experiment is this: Christmas has nothing to do with it. People still don't think it's right for a man to buy women's clothing. I don't get it though, because I also checked out the mens sections, and there were women in there picking and sorting and acting like nobody cared...because nobody did!

  2. #2
    Member Diana West's Avatar
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    I too have done a similar observation.
    Because I'm older and married, every clerk just assumed I was getting something for my wife.
    Nobody watched me to make sure I didn't shoplift (one of the advantages of being over 40, I guess), but many assumed I had lots of money to spend and showed me the expensive items.
    I agree with your results with one additional observance.
    Most people don't think it's proper for a man to wear women's clothing so they create reasons why a man wold be looking in the women's section.
    For me, they assumed it was for my wife.
    For you, they probably thought you were going to steal something.

  3. #3
    Member Heelsnlegs's Avatar
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    I'll be visiting LA, where I am hoping I will have more success going out enfemme than where I live in Calgary. I decided I need to buy a few things for my first excursion out so I went shopping tonight. No one seemed to mind me in the clothing stores and were generally very helpful (thinking I was buying a gift I am assuming). I went into a shoe store where I found a pair of shoes I could wear with a pair of jeans; I really wanted the shoes but it was a clearance store ie no returns, so I decided I have to try them on. I asked the clerk ( a young girl) to come over and told her I wanted to try them on behind one of the stacks (the store was almost closing) Well she looked at me as if I was from another planet, and kept asking why? (She was oriental and her english was not all that good)Why would you want to try these on she asked as she looked at me incredulously? Well they kind of fit so I took them, and the other two girls at the counter didn't say a thing. I heard them giggle when I walked out.

    Funny thing is I didn't really care much this time. But I guess the moral of the story is we are not accepted everywhere... some places more than others. I also think young girls and seniors have the hardest time accepting us. A lot of 30 to 50 women don't seem to care.

    Well thats my adventure for the night. I hope I have better experiences in LA. By the way if anyone has any suggestions where to shop in LA, I would appreciate it. Does anyone think I could go into a Macy'e enfemme?

    Hugs all

    Jen

  4. #4
    Silver Member Billijo49504's Avatar
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    Who gives a rip?!!! Your money is just as green as anyone'selse's Why didn't youask for a racer back bra. Then you would have known if they had them. Don't be such a wimp!!! Ask for what you want, and don't settle for less. I walk in a store, I'm the customer, I'm here to possibly spend money, if they got what I want. You have the money, you have the power...BJ

  5. #5
    Formerly Deborah Whitney
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    I have found that my awareness of self, of others observing me, is much greater when I shop in the women's section.

    I strongly believe it is our sense of .. guilt, shame, whatever you want to call it .. that is making us feel this way. There is no logical reason for you not to be in the women's section -- it's just clothes fer cryin' out loud.

    We have all been there. I think, Trina, that your senses are especially ragged right now with all the crap you've been putting up with; unfortunately, each of us must figure out for him/herself how to deal with these feelings.

    Good luck.

  6. #6
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    Racerbacks

    Hey,
    You forgot to go to Target. I have some really cute racerbacks from there. They are part of their "ultimate collection" they are very similar to my wifes VS racerbacks only $25 CHEAPER.
    Rachel

  7. #7
    Aspiring Member
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    The reason it's considered ok for women to shop in the mens section is because it's either considered a gift or because they just like the style. People today have a misconception that men are by default perverts. Women on the other hand are not, and are permitted to express their sexuality through their clothing.

    Back to shopping. It really doesn't matter what other people think. It's really their problem not yours. I recently went to VS for the first time. ( I'm perfectly happy with the style of mens underclothes, but not the colors. For whatever reason "designers" have deemed fun colors and prints on mens underwear a sin. ) I was super nervous. Couldn't figure out how the store was organized and basically lost. I asked for help, and she kept trying to sell me the matching bra. I assume she thought it was a gift. Even at the register they asked if I needed a gift box. It takes a lot of confidence and guts. Just remember it's their problem, not yours.
    Last edited by noname; 12-06-2006 at 03:43 AM.

  8. #8
    I LOOK like a guy... Casey Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trina82 View Post
    At any rate, I found one racerback in the entire selection there, and it was being heavily guarded by a rough old woman. I didn't feel like asking her to move, and it would have been kinda obvious that it wasn't so much a Christmas present due to the fact that it was plain white and not the traditional flamboyant colors and such that a gift normally would be. I left the store empty-handed and with a really bad taste in my mouth. Not only did that one customer ruin the experience, the SA's in EVERY department were staring me down like I was going to shoplift.
    In retail you're trained to keep an eye on the people who "act funny", meaning people who act guilty or just a little TOO nonchalant or something like that. Quite simply you were being regarded as a potential trouble maker. Ask the pro shoplifters or the police: the best way to go undetected is to just be normal.

    I take it that "rough old woman" who was "heavily guard[ing]" the department was the customer who "ruin[ed] the experience?" Nah, you transferred your feelings onto her and abscribed motives that you couldn't possibly know. You ruined the experience for yourself. Am I right in thinking she didn't say two consecutive words TO you?

    I think despite your experiment you were expecting problems and you inadvertantly caused some and created others out of relative whole cloth. Next time just try to chill. It's easier said than done and it may take some practice but it's what you have to do.
    Androgynes: the quantum bits of the gender binary.

  9. #9
    Member Diana West's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billijo49504 View Post
    Who gives a rip?!!! Your money is just as green as anyone'selse's Why didn't youask for a racer back bra. Then you would have known if they had them. Don't be such a wimp!!! Ask for what you want, and don't settle for less. I walk in a store, I'm the customer, I'm here to possibly spend money, if they got what I want. You have the money, you have the power...BJ
    For me, it was social observation, not economics.
    I agree with you. We are the customer and we make the call. I've found after doing this, I prefer to shop at stores in which service and treatment of the customer have a high priority. If I'm just looking to save a buck, I go wherever, walk in, buy it, and leave. Otherwise I like to linger and look around and shop.

  10. #10
    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    Just by the words "slinked" I can tell that every SA would be watching you like a hawk!!! You have to walk in the door like your own the place, head up and proud...like you belong there and no one will say a thing...not even any looks!!! Gauranteed or double your panties back!! hehehe

    Love Karren
    Current Obsession - Breasts and Lingerie!

    .......My Photos

  11. #11
    Aspiring Member Bobbi Lynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karren Hutton View Post
    Just by the words "slinked" I can tell that every SA would be watching you like a hawk!!! You have to walk in the door like your own the place, head up and proud...like you belong there and no one will say a thing...not even any looks!!! Gauranteed or double your panties back!! hehehe

    Love Karren
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  12. #12
    Banned Read only Calliope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trina82 View Post
    I ended up heading back to the sporting goods and looked at gun cleaning supplies instead.
    Easy there!

  13. #13
    Maturing Member JoAnnDallas's Avatar
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    Last fall I took my grandneice shopping before she went off to be a freshman at college. We ended up at Victoria Secrets and this SA came up to us and was nice but not too resposive. I pulled my Angel Card out and it was like a jet going into aftrburner. She lighted up like a christmas tree and turned the charm on. LOL. My neice ended up with a Bra and FREE piar of panties too. (I wanted the panties darn it) It just go to show that if you show them that your there to BUY attitudes change like magic. I have both a AnnTaylor and Chadwicks cards and the same thing happens in their stores when I pull them out of my wallet. LOL

    BTW, I got all three cards in drab mode. Just went up to a SA and asked for one.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Kristen Marie's Avatar
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    I used to have similar experiences, but now I look for interactions with the sales associates rather than trying to avoid them. Say hello, make eye contact, and after a little browsing, as a question about the product. See if there are any alternatives to that bra that might be similar. I have found (and I dress in drab when I shop), that they are usually very willing to help. I also almost always "underdress" when I go shopping. It just adds to my confidence.

    The courage I have received from the support of this forum is amazing and has made shopping so much fun!

  15. #15
    New Member Tatiana Thomas's Avatar
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    I used to feel as if everyone was watcing me with a raised eyebrow everytime I went shopping. My last time out, this past weekend, I decided that soon as I hit the place I was going to make a point to say Hi to the SA.

    Wow, what a differance it made me feel. I never felt as if I was being eyed and I was so comfortable that I ended up buying 2 sets of matching bra and panties when I only planned on getting a bra. The SA even helped me find my size too.

    They were way to cute together to pass up.

  16. #16
    . Aprilrain's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Karren just walk in and look at what ever the hell you want to look at. if your nervous and look it you look like a theif or worse a pervert. anyway I took a big step about a month ago and walk right up tp a SA and showed her the clothes I was holding, a skirt and top, and asked her where I could try them on. I wasn't sure if she would want me to go to the dressing room over in the men's section. She was a little confused at first but then was very nice and tried to sell me more things after I came out of the dressing room (wearing my male attire). Now I just take what i want in to the dressing rooms and try it on I don't ask any more and nobody seems to care.

  17. #17
    Feeling Good today AmberTG's Avatar
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    I was in a Maurices store today to buy a gift certificate as a christmas present and looked around at most of the styles, some are a bit too "young" for mebut, anyway, as I was looking at different stuff, I was having a running conversation with the SA working at the time about gauchos and tall boots, among other things. I was sorely tempted by a pair of really cute pumps that wound go really with jeans, nice rounded toes with almost like a "wingtip" style. It's easy to talk to the SA about clothes without being too obvious. I have to wonder what they're thinking as they're talking to a man about women's styles.

  18. #18
    Member GraceUSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trina82 View Post
    Not only did that one customer ruin the experience, the SA's in EVERY department were staring me down like I was going to shoplift.
    I've always been a person that did not fit the norm, because of that just about every store watched me closely. Even been pulled into security at a store because they thought I was trying to shoplift. After that I learned I need to make eye contact, say hi and smile. Be confident. And if I can't find something and its not busy find an sales person for help. Takes a little getting used to it but I found it was a lot better than be treated like an criminal.

    People tend to mistrust those they can not relate to, so I do everything, that is reasonable, to put them at ease.

  19. #19
    Member SatinSarah's Avatar
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    I have only shopped in drab and I am naturally very nervous. BUt over the lat few Christmas periods I have found it easier to go into department stores and buy all sorts of lingerie. Most SAs guess its for a wife. I brows through all sorts slowly and as though I am looking ofr a gift. Quite often they will offer to put it into a gift box for my wife. If I had guts I would say no I am going to rush home and try it on myself - but yes please always comes out of my mouth.

    I have also bought dresses, tops etc. and again just be confident and don't feel guilty. I used to feel so nervous that I couldn't do it, but as nobody has ever said anyhting or looked at me strangely - and I learned I would never see them again in my life I got used to it. I have even bought my own make up by just putting it in the basket and paying for it. Simple really. However, I really admire you girls who shop en femme, try on things and make it clear its for you. Well done. Hopefully sometime I will get that far. I'm half way there!
    All girly on the inside...time for the outside too.

  20. #20
    ...likes lingerie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noname View Post
    I recently went to VS for the first time. ( I'm perfectly happy with the style of mens underclothes, but not the colors. For whatever reason "designers" have deemed fun colors and prints on mens underwear a sin. ) I was super nervous. Couldn't figure out how the store was organized and basically lost. I asked for help, and she kept trying to sell me the matching bra. I assume she thought it was a gift.
    ...That wasn't you that I ran into, was it?

  21. #21
    Aspiring Member shannonsilk's Avatar
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    I've been wandering around the women's sections and VS for so long i don't remember if i was a slinker at first. it did take a while before i felt nervous. side note-- i got my VS birthday gift crtificate. i wonder what i'll buy.

  22. #22
    Out for a walk EricaCD's Avatar
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    The theme expressed here is as true as it is consistent: What you are feeling when you shop for women's clothing (even lingerie) is not social disapproval but simply your own discomfort. You are projecting that discomfort on the people around you.

    Nobody cares. If you don't want to enlist the help of a SA, then don't. Tell them you're just looking but you will be sure to find them if you need any help. If you want an SA to help, don't be shy.

    I assure you that you will discover what many of us have learned: once you stop with the self-consciousness, the rest of the world will "magically" stop intruding on your dressing experience.

    Good luck!
    Erica
    For photos on flickr, my user name is cd_erica_f

  23. #23
    Senior Member suzy's Avatar
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    I haven't experienced the awkwardness in shopping that you described. I believe it is very important for us to be very confident when making ourchases. Go in, look, shop, as if no one was there watching. It is your store as much as anybody elses... Why do we have to care what other people think??? Life is all about us!!

  24. #24
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    A few months ago, I was walking though Tesco ( A HUGE supermarket) doing a small shop.
    As I passed the ladies clothing I saw a rack of short black shift dresses.
    Being highly skilled in the art of speed tag reading, I spotted that they went up to my size and that they weren't that expensive (20 quid IIRC)

    I plucked up the courage, turned my trolley around and went back to the rack. Found my size and carried on shopping.
    I paid for all the goods, including the dress in a self service isle.

    I got home, tried on the dress and it was too small
    So I took it back. Digging deep into my confidence reserves, and after reading so many stories on here about shopping, I walked up to the clothing returns isle and told the assistant that it was the wrong size. She said that I could go and find the right size which I did. She then jokingly asked if I'd like to try it on.
    My heart raced, and I said yes. The assistant smiled and led me to an empty changing room. I tried the dress on, it fitted, got changed and went back to the assitant. She wrapped the dress up and put it in the back, altered the receipt and said goodbye.
    No giggles, no real embarrasment. I felt amazing.
    I know buy my cosmetics, underwear and tights etc from this shop, mainly thanks to the self service check out. I do have to be careful though as my neighbour works there. Fortunately he's permanently on the overnight shift

    LL

  25. #25
    ...likes lingerie.
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    See, I don't think it would ever go over (in my mind) for me to be that bold. I'm a very hairy guy, and I would just be too worried about image. I'm pretty well known everywhere around the most of my area, and it would have a serious impact on social and executive operations should anyone see me.

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