The "Concerns"

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

After having a discussion with my SO, & the "issues" i have sometimes with his c/d, i was sat for alittle while , working out what my "real" issue with the c/d was & i realised that ( this is purley my own view for myself) that its like "a part of him il never really have" !!
i call it the "stranger" . i carnt get inside his head & physicaly understand why he wants to do it, and i have come to terms with it alot, ( mainly due to everyone on this forum whom have helped me understand it more ).
But..... its that "part" of him il never really be a-part-of !! ( if that makes any sense ) !!
I felt i wanted to post this in here, to sort of see if some of you can understand what im saying with the c/d.
I love him for him, ( that will NEVER change ), i think mentaly sometimes for the SO you try and "see though" the c/d and tell yourself its STILL the person you fell in love with & are with , even though sometimes you feel "shut out" from it
Anyways, sorry if this sounds a tad stupid, but its my feelings @ moment with the c/d

[Kate Simmons]

No, your feelings are valid Angie. When I used to talk to my wife about it, she would say she thought I did it because maybe she wasn't good enough as a woman for me and I needed to do it because something was lacking for me. I couldn't make her understand that it had nothing to do with my feelings for her as a woman or as my wife, it had more to do with my feelings about myself.
She could never separate the two and so I kept to myself a lot and didn't tell her a lot about my feelings as I felt it was a burden to her because she did not understand, not to mention the fact that because I was a "man", I was ashamed because I was expected to act a certain way as a husband and father. Well, I did all of the things that were expected but when it came to CDing, I kept it to myself because it seemed to bother her whenever I mentioned it or she found out I was doing it.
I don't know if this is how other Cders feel but that is the way I felt and , yes, I did have a part of myself that she couldn't reach and where I would never let her in. For me though it was more about sparing her feelings than anything else. Sal

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Salandra thats excatly how i felt when i 1st found out !! that it was maybe something to do with "me". i wasnt a woman enough etc . your spot on with that

[Kate Simmons]

It's a natural reaction Angie and quite honestly if I was a woman and my husband told me he wanted to dress up like a woman, I would react the same way. I'm being quite honest with that because I have a good friend who I've always respected as a man but now he is getting into CDing, I can't understand why and my feelings are mixed about it. I know that sounds strange probably coming from me but those are my honest feelings , so I have some idea what it feels like maybe. Strange, now that the shoe is on the other foot, no? Sal

[kerrianna]

Angie, this is all a process (heck life is) a journey...and you both are learning and working through stuff as you go. In any relationship, no matter how close, there's always something that you wont get, because you aren't them. You might talk about it, think you get it, try your best, but in the end only they walk in those shoes. Vice versa. Sometimes you just have to have faith that they do love you, that they aren't being dishonest or disloyal, and you just try to keep everything as open and honest as possible.

It IS the same person you fell in love with. That's the whole thing. People do change. As you get older sometimes things you kept buried or denied need to be dealt with. It could happen in a lot of other ways besides CDing. And to both partners. It has happened to both Carol and I, more than once, and has challenged our relationship...and in the course made it stronger. There are things about me she will never fully understand...and vice versa...we accept that as two individuals in partnership with each other.

You're a really cool person and try very hard as we have seen here. Maybe sometimes you try too hard? I can't really say because I don't know you or your SO's lives.

I know CDing is a big 'change'...but I can think of lots of others. Things like that are always a challenge. I hope you two can work together towards finding new ways of relating, because to me that's what makes and keeps a vibrant, loving relationship.

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Your maybe right Kerriana !! i do try to hard sometimes , but thats me
And with c/d, its not just "cut & dry" , everyday is differant with it, so sometimes when you "think" your understanding alittle better, the "goal-posts" shift .
Comunication does get lost sometimes, when your trying to say how you feel with the c/d, ( on both sides ).
I have so much inside my head about it, but actualy verbaly saying it, and talking i do tend to "clam" up, because im scarred of saying /doing wrong thing, then its fireworks !!
If sometimes c/d just thought for a min, that the SO's heads are so over-loaded with stuff, and taking the c/d on board as well, it does sometimes amount to HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLP !!

[Tree GG]

Angie, I can certainly relate to what you're saying. Where'd this come from? This was not in the promotional literature I was presented (figuratively speaking). At some point, and this actually distressed my CD, I had to say I'll never be able to understand how you feel - I'm just not TG. Just as he will never understand how it feels to NOT be TG. All you can do is appreciate the chasm is there and have faith in each other.

When trying to explain this to another family member, I felt it necessary to list the qualities in my CD that I felt were at least partly related to TGness. Many are aspects I appreciate and love in him, and may not have been there without the TG. It was paramount, in my mind, to make sure this family member realized the TG expression was a physical & emotional need that was personal and soley related to his psychie - it had nothing to do with her or how he or I felt about her. And no, there is not a pill to make it go away as it is not an illness.

I won't say I understand or cope completely, and am certainly not the expert on CDing, but having to explain what I knew and believed to be true to someone I love certainly put clarity into many aspects that were previously problematic for me. Just goes to prove that to really understand something, you need to try to teach someone else (sharing is good )

[Sandra]

Angie I think for the SO to really understand why then the Cder also needs to know why they CD, and that for some can be a hard question to answer.

[Sheila]

I love him for him, ( that will NEVER change ), sometimes for the SO you try and "see though" the c/d and tell yourself its STILL the person you fell in love with & are with

Angie, that was how I thought, a few days after I discovered his cding, and it holds true today .............. the [SIZE="3"]cding did not change who I fell in love with...[/SIZE], to me she is a part of the him, only until I discovered his cding I didn't know she was there.

Angie, M plays golf, pool and does other things that I support him in, but don't actively participate in on a regular basis, other than drive him there and occasionaly stay and cheer him on ............. [SIZE="3"]sometimes I think we SO's are our own worst enemy in the beginning (I know I was[/SIZE] ) ............ I know I had to know and know now, about all things cd related when I first found out, .... and to be perfectly honest I was probably more obsessed with cding and everything involved with it that he was when I first found out ........... it took me a long time to calm down and stop stressing over every little thing ...... 9 months down the line and I no longer spend most of my day on the net reading and learning.......... we have actually started doing things together again in the last month, that we stopped doing when I first found out about cding and life is changing again and for the better. We are starting to appreciate each other again, fortunately we love each other, enough to have worked our way to where we are today and I am sure you and Darrell will get there as well

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Ty for all your replies. pheeeew glad to see i wasnt on my own with those thoughts !!
C/D has so many questions to it, and many unresolved answers. its very very true when people say "you learn something new everyday" !!
Be good to hear some responses from some other c/d as well always value your opinions

[EmmaB GG]

Angie - I do feel something the same you do a lot of the time, but as he's going through counselling right now to get a better understanding about himself, I do feel a bit more able to sit back and wait and see. There are times I think "that's it, am not doing this any more - all over!" and times when I say "just let him get with his exploration of himself and we'll see what happens".

I see it as 2 parts as well at the moment, and don't want to lose anymore of the part I know and fell in love with, but I have to let it happen - v painful at times but today am not ready to throw in the towel - but who knows, tomorrow I might be!! And, who knows, I might even like the "other half"!

There's a posting from Marla GG from 2005 that suggests that GG's have emotional reactions to things and GMs have logical reactions. We GG's are often trying to find out facts about CDing to help our understanding, however our natural emotional reaction cannot often compute these things - maybe we're trying to hard?

Jess - it's good to hear that you've come through what some of us are still experiencing - maybe I'll disappear from this forum for a while again & just let life happen without trying to understand or control it!

[Kate Simmons]

Another thought I'd like to share Angie is looking at it from the guy's point of view. To be perfectly honest, I was scared sh***ess when I first got married that I would be able to fulfill the role expected of me. I was one of those "dopes" who thought getting married would cure my CDing. Of course I loved my wife and that helped and I thought I could make it work.
What I didn't count on was the pressures I would face with the whole thing. Getting married, adjusting to that, my wife getting pregnant and buying a house, all within the space of one year. Talk about a life change. In for a penny, in for a pound. Despite my love for my wife, I ended up "retreating" to my safe haven of CDing, secretly at first but after two years of marriage and two children, I could keep it from her no longer. Her reaction was just how I described above and she really thought seriously about leaving me at that time but she considered the children and they needed a father.
I did my best to slip back into the role and my heart was sincere, really since I did indeed love my family. Still, the need to escape was always there to take a break from all of the pressures and that is where the deceit came in as I thought I was sparing her feelings. When she always found out, though, it made matters worse and her trust in me was in question.That's how it was for years, walking on eggshells but really it did not work and ended up doing damage to our relationship.
I'm not saying the pressures are an excuse for doing that but I realized too late that marriage has to be an honest team effort if it is going to succeed. Maybe women feel like they are not adequate when they discover this about their SO but the coin has two sides and in today's world, sometimes the man feels inadequate as well and if a CDer, will fail to that. Hopefully my experience(and failure) will help others understand that real communication is the key and real love covers a lot. We need to know that we are doing a good job also and we know you gals do but since we are guys, sometimes we don't always show our appreciation or voice it. That was my experience anyway. Sal

[Sharon]

Angie I think for the SO to really understand why then the Cder also needs to know why they CD, and that for some can be a hard question to answer.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Michelia]

Dear Blonde GG:

I do not disagree with anything so far. All smart and perceptive opinions as usual.

But I want to add something that may be a little delicate and not so easy to express but I will try.

Your "realization" that there is a part of him/her you will never share is very relative. We all can feel like that about our SO's regardless of gender issues. Or because of the very gender difference as in female or male, unrelated to CDing.

If your objective is to share that part of him, you can do it. But he has to want it too. You have to be receptive and open minded. He has to be open and trust you and be able to address your "concerns".. It takes time and communication. And it CAN bring closer together than you ever thought possible!

Wishing you the best

Michelia

[AmandaM]

His brain is part female, and he probably doesn't completely understand it himself. The best approach would be to get to know him, and her. If you can get him to express himself while he's female, that's the start. Get into "her" head.

Also, I don't think it's any different than trying to understand why guys need to burp and fart in public. Women certainly don't understand that! LOL

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Its a partnership, so we will/are working onit with the c/d. & for myself , i must make sure i dont loose sight of what really matters .
c/d for "all" genders is a long road , which has its pros/cons . and i value each and everyones opinion

[Emily Ann Brown]

Can I take a shot at this thread with my twisted perspective..... (try and stop me, GIGGLE GIGGLE).

We are all different even though we share varying amounts of some common traits. For years I tried to understand myself as a CD (a guy who loved to dress). Then I realized I really was a guy sharing a body with a woman. I really am more comfortable and happier in Em mode, but I don't want SRS. I am actually maybe a 50/50 TG/CD. I think many are their own mix of the two, and what the SO knows changes because the spouse is not changing but is discovering more of who they truly are. If the SO thinks it's scary you should try being the CD. I didn't really want to be TG....scary enough being CD.

I don't believe the SO has to be left out or feel that they are losing a part of the person they love and cherish. In my case My wife was so OPPOSED and RELIGIOUSLY RESENTFUL that there was no opening given me to include her once she knew the truth. My only options were quit and leave (her exact words). And I think it is hard for the husband to overnight go from being a "secret agent" to out in the open....but they should try as hard as they can. There is so much info out here for the SO, but maybe we need info or literature for the CD to read so they understand how this all comes across to our mates, and hopefully make us more understanding as well.

Let me close with a beautiful couple I know. He is CD, she is waiting for her SRS date. I have heard her on numerous occassions say she only tolerates his dressing because she loves HIM so much. Of all people you would think SHE would have a clear understanding and acceptance for him and his "different" mindset ... but she doesn't. Knowing that, what chance does a SO truly have of totally understanding and accepting one of us?

Honest communication is the only hope, and lots of it.


Emily Ann

[Bonnie D]

I just recently came out to my wife of 28 years. Not only did I admit that I've been cd'ing since I was 11, I told her I've been "gay" since around the same time. Obviously I'm bisexual but there's more to it than that. I also told her that I need to leave our marriage to find a man to be with who will also enjoy my feminine self. I had made arrangements to move in with my mother for a few months until I could find my own place to live. It fell through a week before I was supposed to move and I hae no where else to go for now. So we are still living together and we have worked out some rules. I can't dress unless I'm home alone for the day and I can be actively looking for a man right now. I agreed. We are being very suopportive of each others very different situations. One of the things she told me in our many discussions since I told her was that the whole marriage has been a sham. I told her that it wasn't because I truly have loved her all this time and was the best father and husband I could be. It was when I was alone that I would let out my feminine side. Yes, I did have to hide it but it was somethng I had to "put away or aside" when I was not alone. I told her that I understood her confusion and that she did not have 100% of me but she did get the most I could give her. Her doctor asked her if I have been a good husband all this time and she said yes. Have a been a good father to my two children? Her answer was again yes. Was I respectful to her family? Again, yes. 28 years is a long time for me to have committed to the marriage when I could have left a long time ago when it would have been easier for me to find a man but instead I stayed to help raise my family. What I have done is terribly wrong and I have told that I have always wished that I had accepted myself before we married and gone the way I should have and not involved her in my confusion. She is having the most trouble knowing that I'm leaving because she is still very much in love with me. I am still in love with her but not in the way I should be. My heart is breaking as well as hers and so we are trying be do what we can for each other

Bonnie

[Brianna Lovely]

Ty for all your replies. pheeeew glad to see i wasnt on my own with those thoughts !!
C/D has so many questions to it, and many unresolved answers. its very very true when people say "you learn something new everyday" !!
Be good to hear some responses from some other c/d as well always value your opinions

I've thought of this often, in the last few months.
As a general rule, men try to work things out logically. As a result of this natural behavior, they're always trying to "fix" things, whether it's the car or a relationship.

Women tend to deal with thing using emotions and feelings first and then may apply logical solutions. Often a woman may not know how to verbalize her feelings, because "they just are".

I can only speak for myself, as a TG person, when I say that accepting myself has been the biggest challenge of my life.

Suddenly I was faced with a range of emotions, that I had never experienced, with an intensity that was almost overwhelming.
And I was immersed in a sea of unexplainable "feelings" that seem to come and go at will. I find my self saying, "I don't know why", "I just feel that way" and "It just is" many times a day.

So, I've gone from a logical person to a blend of emotions, feelings and logic. And to be honest, most of the time it makes no sense to me, so I guess I'll just stop trying to understand and continue to accept myself, as I am at the moment.

I suggest, that you look in the mirror, for a moment, then say to yourself, "My TG/SO, is feeling the same things that I do, plus her own emotions and thoughts, all mixed up together. And she's afraid and doesn't understand everything either."

[noname]

For the GG's,

Why is an expressive guy so difficult? In my mind it's just clothes and shouldn't change anything. Just as it should not matter if I were to wear blue one day or black another day. Why can't both people just wear what they wish and go about their lives? Sure, we do have to deal with other people and family. Sure people may say something, but ywhy not take the, 'this is my husband and I love him' tough cookies, your problem route?

[marie354]

With myself, I think that the confusion is something like this...

I've always felt that I should have been born female and it has driven me a bit batty at times trying to figure out just why I feel that way. So it's a bit confusing.

Now that I have accepted it as a real part of me, things are a bit easier to let the "woman inside" out a bit more.

I asked Regina and she said that she never thought of it in that way before. She is thinking about that now, however. (Have I lit another fuse?)

Anyway... If part of my mind is really female, then that may explain the confusion. Sort of a battle of the sexes within ones self, I guess.

There are really so many questions in my mind... Should I come out to everyone, or stay closeted? My relatives and closest friends know. Is that enough? Do I really want the world to know? Should I just wait a while and let the world catch up a bit.

Maybe if I could answer even these few questions, I could explain what I feel inside.

I'm not sure if I have made any of my past GF's feel that way or not, but it is an interesting point, and I want to thank you for bringing it up. Food for thought.

[AllThingsPretty]

I am going to invite my wife to read this thread. There is some really good stuff here.

[Joyciecd]

[SIZE="4"][/SIZE] I think this is close to the point: Today a B/F visited me then took me to lunch. I wore pink strappy sandals, really short blue shorts, long sleeved T, jewelry, makeup, etc. I had my long gray hair combed around my face and my bangs straight down. I lbelieve that I looked pretty good. He took me to a hotel dining room for a rather upscale lunch. The place was crowded. I don't believe that I was read by any patrons, but the waitress sort of took a double take when I oredered a glass of wine. (Voice not that great). During lunch he looked in my eyes and asked, "Why do you dress like that?" Not in a smart way, just an honest curious question. BTW, he always dates me with me dressed, and we have dated for ages. My honest answer was, "I don't know." And I don't really know, except that I just feel that I must. Yet in drab I am a rather high powered executive, respected in the community by the movers and shakers. Do I risk that when I go out dressed? Of course, so why do I do it? Same answer, I just feel that I must. In many ways I am like Karren, I think that en femme I am not recognizable, but who really knows.

How does one define what ones inner self is, be it integrity or depotism, truth or falsehood, right or wrong. In simplest terms, I am just living the hand that that was dealt to me, with really little ability to change the molecules that are my make up. We are what we are. One truth is many of us didn't deal with this until we had created other commitments that aren't an exact fit, and therein lies the onflict with family, lovers, and SO 's. In may ways this "enlightened" era is a sword that cuts both ways. Had we been able to freely act out on our compulsions throughout our lives, the tangled web of relationships that now impinges may not have developed. Imposing this on unsuspecting spouses etc. as we act out must create strains on them beyond our comprehension. I salute the SO's who stick with us after we reveal to them, being married or dating. It is just too bad that we weren't able to be fully open at the first date, as I am, which coud have eliminated or at least alleviated the angst created by later discovery.

[TxKimberly]

I'm asking this as an honest question, please don't consider it in any way confrontational. You said that "its like a part of him il never really have" - why not? And no, I am not talking about why don't you support your husband, or why don't you go out with him, or why don't you . . . I don't mean any of that. I mean, why can't you take part in this portion of his soul or person by speaking to each other, hugging each other, laughing about it, having what fun you can with it. I'd never admit it to her, but I get kind of a good laugh out of it when my wife tells me that something I've bought is silly.
This need not be too different from any other aspect of each other that you deal with every day.
In re-reading this I can see I've done a poor job of getting my thoughts across I just can't figure out how to say it any better.

Kim

[Fab Karen]

"I realised that ( this is purely my own view for myself) that it's like "a part of him I'll never really have" !!"
Well, plenty of boyfriends & husbands have that feeling when their SO goes off to be with the (GG) girls. The universe will find a balance.