Although I did question his sexuality at first (which is a natural thing to do) I don't think that anymore.
I am not 100% accepting because I feel like now I will only be getting the man I fell in love with half the time while he gets me full time. It's sort of like I'm in a three way relationship now with him and another lady. Him being the other lady. That's the deal for me. It has nothing to do with me thinking he's gay. That isn't the only issue us GGs have.
You know the first time I found out my Tam was a CD, he said the same thing... I'm not gay... I never assumed he was and I never understood why he thought such a thing. I still don't get that? why do CD's assume we will think they are gay? clothes don't make you gay....Originally Posted by janedoe311
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
Look at other sites and surveys. Most people think that CD'rs are gay. It is not a GG thing.You know the first time I found out my Tam was a CD, he said the same thing... I'm not gay... I never assumed he was and I never understood why he thought such a thing. I still don't get that? why do CD's assume we will think they are gay? clothes don't make you gay....
I feel for the GG it is a bit of insecurity. If he likes to look like a woman what does that make me a lesbian? Or why would he want to attract men? Most women dress up for themselves but also for men. So why would he want to look like a woman?
The other point. Is if the love, trust, and understanding was really there would CDing only end the marriage? It is hard for us at this site to understand why it would.
So my other point is my wife knows me and knows that I dislike men, gay would be the last thing I would be called. So maybe that there is something else going on when a GG ends the marriage because she feels he is gay. Should not she know her husband?
Mind you to contradict myself, I have a friend that divorced after two kids and 20 years of marriage because he was gay and he did the divorce. So I guess some GG’s cannot tell.
It is difficult to try to think like someone else to answer these questions. I am a writer and do my best to think like my characters, and I am good at it. Maybe I will finish something one of these days and try to sell it.
Most of us here are enlightened and it is hard to understand this bias. Stop a long marriage because the man likes to wear a dress once in a while, does not make sense but it happens a lot.
As I said it is just clothes what is the problem?
It isn't just clothes. If my boyfriend just wanted to wear girl's clothes every so often, I would have no problem. The big problem I have is that he wants to BE a girl. Not only do I not know him that way, but it also makes me uncomfortable. I know he's always felt this way inside, he just never showed it to me. He ISN'T the same anymore because of this.
I don't like the fact that he wants to go out a present himself as a woman. At that point it's not about clothes, it's about gender.
One of the biggest reasons that people get divorced is because of change. It could be that a spouse becomes much more self aware and outgoing than before, so their mate might feel unneeded. This can lead to divorce. Crossdressing is a BIG change to get used to. It's a complete lifestyle change from what us GGs are used to in a relationship.
Change is not easy to accept. Especially for me.
Maybe my answers will help you understand the GG side of things.
Yes another aspect to CD'ing. Livestyle change and wanting to be a girl is TG not CD'ing. I can see if he starts "dressing" a lot it will change him.
I feel for you. It is hard to lose someone. My family comes first, I do not CD it does nothing for me. But the women is still in me and it is frustrating that I can do nothing about it.
It's not just about clothes though is it - it is what they represent. A CDer wears them and tries to emulate a woman.
I hear so many times that if women can wear "mens" clothes - why do we have a problem with men wearing "womens" clothes. The difference is - when I stick a pair of trousers on - I dont look in the mirror and admire what I look like as a man - I dont try to emulate a man - neither do i want to grow a beard so I can look like one.
It's a bit tough sometimes - to see the guy you married and didnt know was a CDer - suddenly shave his chest, legs and whatever else he wants to do and try to be a woman.
I dont have control issues .......if I'm in control - there is no issue.
I always figured TGing was a subset of CDing.
Whether I really want to be a woman part-time is kinda hazy. Yes and no. I do want to pass, I do want to feel womanly, I do want to be perceived as a woman. Is this something different than wanting to be one? I don't know. I do know that being a "man in a dress" doesn't appeal to me much.
But this IS a big deal, relationship-wise. It brings up tough questions, and the answers don't always come quickly.
I agree it's more than just clothes. For instance if there are a man's pair of underwear, identical material and cut and everything but they are in the men's section and there are a pair of the same material, cut identical but in order for him to be able to want them they would have to come from the ladies department. At first he tried to make me understand that it was all about the material was so much softer and that was the reason he wanted to wear them. He has some bikini underwear, microsoft material made just like a woman's underwear in cut and everything the only difference is their is a tad bit more space in the crotch area for his ( you know). He don't want to wear them. To make a short story long, LOL, It's not about the material, or the hair pulling on your legs and arm pits, it's not about that it's more comfortable( come on I want born yesturday) I wear a bra everyday and it's uncomfortable, same with pantyhose all day and heels. It's like he was trying to act like I was a idiot and making up sh__ and thinking I didn't know the difference. PLEASE CDer's don't make up stuff, just be honest it has really hurt Me and my so cause he told me lies by making up stuff and instead of just being honest and saying I shaved my leggs cause it feels better and I like the smooth feel and I shaved my armpits cause it just feels better. Just be honest about it. Just a helpful hint if any of you decide to come out any time soon.
He does not want to BE a girl, he just sometimes wants to be treated like a girl. If he wants to BE a girl then this is transexuality and is different from crossdressing. Sometimes GGs ask to be treated like one of the guys, this is what crossdressers are asking for.
Sometimes cds just wear the clothes and do not emulate women, sometimes they do emulate women because to their eye a 100% transformation is more pleasing and will get what they are after - being treated like of the girls.
Naturally any crossdresser who comes out of the closet will no longer behave the way he was before, because his en drab self was not the whole truth. He is not a different person though, he is just revealing his whole self and not just his partial self.
That is the big reason why some crossdressers go onto emulate rather than just stick to crossdressing. All men are conditioned throughout our lives to stay clear of any behavior or appearance that looks gay. Even if we are not homophobic ourselves, we dont want to have a gay appearance, we dont want to be perceived and treated as a gay man, we want to be perceived and treated as a woman.
I was that way myself for a long time. But because I have no restrictions at home for crossdressing, I got comfortable with just crossdressing and not emulating. I rarely wear breast forms and wigs anymore as I am comfortable looking at myself as a man in a dress. It took many years to reach that stage of acceptance and to unlearn my conditioned dislike of what I considered as a gay appearance. The fact that my wife fully supports me and likes me however I dress undoubtedly has made that transition in my mind much easier.
Crossdressers are the way we are because the male gender is so tightly constrained into avoiding all things feminine and all things gay. Emulating women bypasses all our internal roadblocks in our heads and allows us to emote and behave in ways forbidden to us normally. The sense of relief, satisfaction, excitement etc can be overwhelming and so understandably this is something which the cd wants to undertake regularly.
I can understand from an outsider's viewpoint it appears that we want to be women which naturally is a scary thought if you are in a relationship. Unfortunately many cds do not have a good understanding of themsleves and the underlying dynamics which fuel their crossdressing and so are unable to communicate precisely what they are doing except with simple staements like "I want to be a girl" even though this is usually not an accurate description at all.
Assuming that the GG is open-minded enough to listen to you in the first place. Some are, some are not. Talking to a closed minded person is a total waste of time, they already know that they are right and you are wrong, why should they listen to you try to change their mind? The facts don't count for closed minded people, both men and women.
"I see your true colors shining through, your true colors, and that's why I love you,
so don't be afraid to let them show, your true colors, true colors are beautiful, like a rainbow"
"Without change,something sleeps deep inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken!"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Being honest about it isn't always that easy. As has been mentioned there are very many different types and reasons and stages of CDing.
My partner knew I liked wearing lingerie the first night we slept together. She didn't mind, she liked it in fact.And that's pretty much the way it stayed for 20 years, with the exception that I was wearing some form of lingerie most days as I got older, but always discreetly.
But all those years I had stronger, deeper longings I just had no idea of how or why I would act on. Fantasies, dreams, etc. I just thought it was a kink of mine, didn't really want to think more about it. My recurring fantasy was forced feminization by my partner, something she wasn't comfortable with. I just thought it was about a power shift. I had no idea that it was much deeper than that. So when I took a chance and came out to a stranger about that fantasy, which my partner knew about, it precipitated a crisis in our relationship (naturally, since I did it unilaterally without warning her...I did it without thinking really... I had no idea what I was doing except pushing a fantasy that I dreamt about more and more, in a way I thought was innocent...well in my numb state I thought so at the time). It also precipitated a revelation of my own true nature. Within days of opening myself up and acknowledging I wanted to be made to feel like a girl I found myself profoundly happy for the first time in my life, I became a more considerate (well after I regained some control on myself
When I first joined this forum I remember reassuring GGs that just because their partners CDed didn't make them gay, didn't mean they wanted to be a girl, etc. And I will still say that. I think most of our married members are pretty much who they started off to be, and want to stay that way. Even many who like to go the whole nine yards.
I thought I was one of them. I see now that in fact what has really happened to me is that I have finally come full circle to what I felt as a child, what I've felt but never properly understood growing up, what I kept alive with my CDing - I WANT TO BE A GIRL. So, yes, I must say that when your partner comes out and reveals their CDng it could mean more than just having fun or experimenting or expressing their femme self - although those are the more common reasons. But they could be TG (well, most crossdresser's are to some degree) or TV or TS. And that does mean you are both faced with some serious challenges.
In my case my partner has handled my growth well. I've tried my best to keep her an integral part of the process, and let her know what's going on with me and ask her about how that makes her feel. I try to give her time to adjust - I need the time myself. But each realization of who I am and how deeply this runs in my core being, is another test of the relationship. My latest realization is that I indeed have sexual and romantic attraction to men as well as women. I never considered that before although I and my partner are both open minded and have had our experiments in the past. But this is the realization that I would be happy to fully function as a woman if I could.
As far as how that has changed me in her eyes she would have to tell you that. She fell in love with the soft sensitive young poet who became a jaded cynical uncouth man over the years, so I know she likes the return of my softness. And I am so much happier. I like to think that makes her happy too. But I'm sure she is worried where this will end up. I have assured her I will not transition, because I just don't have the energy to do it I don't think, and I am finding ways of keeping my woman inside happy inside.
I guess the point I'm trying to make with my long story is that sometimes we ourselves don't know where this is going...and when a GG tells us she is scared for her relationship, as much as I'd love to reassure you, everyone is different and you may in fact have real cause to be concerned. The only thing I can say is that a couple who truly love and respect each other should do their best to stay open and communicative, work out day to day what's working and what isn't, be mindful of each other and where the other person stands and what they might be seeing and feeling. People change, relationships change, and couples can change together.
I can't guarantee that we as a couple will succesfully handle the journey I feel I have to make now. But I can guarantee that I will do everything I can to be mindful, respectful, open and loving and make it work for both of us.
btw Satrana, excellent post. TY.
Last edited by kerrianna; 04-27-2007 at 12:24 AM. Reason: read Satrana's post
"I dwell in possibility."
"Say what you want and be who you are, because those who matter don't mind, and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
Thing is though, Cocopuff, we sometimes fool ourselves. I've thought some of those same thoughts before and didn't realize what was going on until Sobe nailed me with a contradiction.
At first I thought "I just want to wear ladies' clothes, wherever and whenever, like a lady does," until Sobe said "then just wear those clothes as a guy, you don't have to pretend to be a woman." That idea didn't appeal to me, and I was forced to consider why. I realized that gender was an important element to my crossdressing. Still, I didn't lie to Sobe, I just didn't know the truth.
a thought might be..how or where and when You indulge in whatever prediliction that "you" might desire, what's the point ? ( masterbation?) Any mutual satisfaction or understanding between "partners"concerning wishes and desiresAs a GG I had to grow up fast and my sister left home when I was 7-8. She lived in the cities and going up there to spend time with her I was exposed to GLBT community at an early age. My parents also taught me "never judge a book by it's cover" type morals. I live by them everyday since I can remember. I think if a GG is exposed and bought up around GLBT/CD (even in passing) we are more excepting. I know I am for it. When Ryan/Regan told me it was a fantacy(sp?) of his I had no problem with it because in my late teens and early 20's I was formally introduce to the GLBT/CD community by some friends of mine.
I was actually excited about it when he told me. Ryan/Regan is also bi so for me he's everything I have ever wanted in a man, a bestfriend as well as a great partner. I have had a harder time with him being bi and being used to having a boifriend on the side than him CDing. I told him in time I could get used to the boifriend thing because it's all new to me. And he agreed to hold of till I was fully ready and if that time never came then he'd be happy with as well.
I whole heartly agree with Michelle on the honesty. There are GG's out there that are willing to accept there men in drag for who they are if they are honest up front. But on the other side of the coin there are many GG's that are still closed minded and that sadens me to no end. Like I had said in previous posts....I could give a s**t less if Ryan actually became Regan for the rest of his life(go though the operation)....I would become a lesbian. I fell in love with him for his personality not because he likes pumps and dresses. Hell I've went as far as helping him start is woman's woredorbe and had a blast shopping for him.
He says he's lucky to have a understanding G/F like me but I think he just likes the fact I was blessed/cursed with rabbit feet.....lmao! He's been scoping out my shoes and honestly I don't mind. I would rather have him feel comfortable in his oun skin and keep up with his responcabilities to our family than be miserable and jaded about no feeling comfortable coming out.
That'sa just my
Mariaseems essential reguardless of "sociatal norms" eh ??
xx"K"
Just Remember,"Wherever You go- There You are ! "
The majority of the ones that I have seen the post and pics it is much more than just wanting to wear women's clothes. It is about feeling like a woman on the outside as well as the inside. There are so many wanting to pass and emulating a woman's walk and talk and so forth.... Some are spending a lot of money on breast forms and going to extreme measures to create cleavage and etc... So I have seen very few just good ole CDer's that just want to dress and nothing further. I thought there for a while if I heard the word pass one more time. LOL I was gonna scream. Now before I get
I want to say to those who want to pass and go to extreme measures it's your business and I say go for it. I have seen many on here who are very passable and look gorgeous and I had to step back and really say gosh he looks better than some GG's I've seen. So I don't blame any of you for what you like to do but it is much more to my opinion than just dressing..
i know im not giving the GG's a fair chance, but if i was to tell my last girlfriend instead of here catching me. I dont think she would react any different. She would probably still not be able to accept it. I know with the new age there are more women out there that would be ok after some time. but i still think a majority wouldnt be able to accept it.
this was hypothetical, but it is my opinion.
I wish i could find a woman that can accept it, then my life would be that much better.
But on the other hand to do with lying, i understand the betrayal. everybody has been lied to by there partners one time or another. whether or not the know about it. I would also be hurt, and depending on what the lie is, i might be able to forgive and accept it. forgive but not be able to accept, or neither.
But i am only 20 so i dont know a whole lot, just thought i would add my thoughts on the situation
Jess
For some crossdressers, it really is all about the clothes, you cannot lump all cds into the same boat. And shaved skin does feel fantastic. If men in general were not so uptight about femininity and homophobic, I can pretty much guarantee you that most men would shave their body hair off if it were socially acceptable just as most shave their facial hair.
But you are right in saying that some cds use these reasons as a convenient excuse to not explain the whole rationale behind what they are doing. But then GGs do the same. The often quoted reason that GGs wear pants all the time because they are more comfortable and practical is also just a convenient excuse. I was not born yesterday either. Describing skirts as less comfortable than pants makes no sense and there are only some instances where a skirt would be demonstratively less practical as to warrant a change to pants. This convenient excuse does not explain why so many women wear pants 100% of the time, clearly there are other reasons involved.
Both crossdressers and GGs have their own belief systems and gender conditioning which makes it difficult to explain ourselves to each other. We both automatically reach for easy, convenient excuses rather than having to go through the mental gymnastics required to understand our motivations which often conflict with what we are conditioned to believe is normal.
Take for example shaving off facial hair. Until recently men in our society always had beards and moustaches and in other cultures this remains true today. When a man shaves, he is feminizing his face, he is emulating the appearance of a woman, but because facial shaving has been an acceptable practice for a long time, neither men nor women recognize it for what it actually is - the current preference for the clean, hairless look of women. There are practical reasons you can quote for shaving off facial hair but we all know there is much more to it but who is going to bother analyzing this if a couple are arguing whether he can shave his beard off or not. They will stick to the easy convenient reasons that pop into their heads.
I can easily explain why wearing pants is more comfortable and convinient too. When a woman wears pants verses a dress or skirt you don't have to be so careful about being exposed for instance getting out of a car you have to do it very carefully not to do a Brittney Spears thing you know bare all to the world and most of the time you wear hose with the dress not all times but most time and then you have the worry's of ripping or snagging your hose. Foe me wearing pants is just mostly cause you don't have to be as careful.. Let's say you are having a breezy day and the wind blows up your dress with pants you don't have to worry about that. Also I can wear socks or trouser socks with pants and don't have to worry about hose. Dresses have their place but pants for me are more comfortable. When I wear pants I'm not standing in front of a mirror try to see if I look like a man or wishing I had a package down below. That's the difference for me...... Com
Sure there are reasons you can list but a straight knee length skirt for example is not revealing, nor will not blow up in the wind etc. These are reasons you are having to come up with to explain something that you do naturally without thinking. You wear clothes as a means of self expression, these clothes are sending a message about who you are, you don't choose the clothes you wear each day on grounds of practicality. Most women's appearances are not based on practical, comfortable criteria - everything from shoes, handbags, hair-dos, make-up, nail polish etc are all impractical but something which women cannot do without.
Clothes are about fashion, they are about sending signals, they are about making us feel good about oursleves and thats true for everybody whether cd or gg. It is a glib answer for either ggs and cds to say they choose their clothes and their appearance on practical grounds.
Obviously you don't notice GG's these days cause we are dressing more and more for comfort and yes that includes pants. This was not really about pants though it was about the CDers wearing women's clothes and wanting more and more to act, talk, walk, look and some take it even further. I'm not hear to argue why I wear pants and you don'thave to explain to me why you wear pants. I was just making a comment that I think it's more than just wearing the clothes because of just the comfort. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I live with a CDer on a daily basis and although everyone is different I read a whole lot of post on here and the proof is in the pudding..... hugs
Thats what I am saying too
If it was just a case of lets all be honest all the time life would be so easy but not everyone can handle direct honesty,
i have to agree with a lot of what JoAnnDallas has said ,before the Internet and sites like this one if you had said to a girl that you are a cross dresser they would have ran a mile away from you,i did not really understand myself before i met my wife but i do know that if i had told her before we got married i would not be with her now, yet she is now more comfortable with it than i am ,she has help me a lot, maybe because she got to know me first and in that way cold see past the cross dressing and see that it is a part of what makes me ME. the younger people have it a bit easier now as it is on the television and the Internet so it is more acceptable now, in the end it is best to be honest with each other , a relationship is formed on learning how to deal with each others wants,needs
and problems that life throws at us.
joanne
Here are some personal truths.
Body hair is uncomfortable! The difference in sensation on the skin is vast. On really hot days you sweat more your skin gets more itchy and smell a lot more (hair is an insulator and bacteria live on the hair eating the sweat turning it into B.O. gasses as a by-product), on really cold nights when I wear socks to bed to keep my feet warm I wake up with the roots of the hairs around my ankles all sore from the material rubbing and pulling on them and having a hair on my wrist suddenly ripped out after it's got caught in my watch band hurts more than having some sensitive areas waxed because it's unexpected.
Most mens clothes are made from horrible fabric. Heavy, coarse and uncomfortable. The couple of fine soft male shirts I've managed to procure over the years are so different it's astounding. Womens clothes, skirts, pantyhose and stockings might not feel comfortable to some. For me they are more than comfortable, they are sensuous! Now that's apart from being feminine because I have a love for period style clothes and my fine ruffled shirt with laced cuffs, green satin waistcoat, velvet shirts robe and cloak, brocade frock coat, fine cotton pants, top hat, knee-high boots - all made either for women but passable as mens clothes or made from material rarely found in mens clothes - give me a similar (though lesser) physical sensual pleasure sensation to crossdressing. Now wearing a bra is not so directly sensuous and the pleasure I get from looking like a woman is a powerful and certain fact but that doesn't mean it's false to say that wearing silky underthings or shaving away body hair is comfortable or pleasurable in itself without neccessarily being feminine.
For some CD it is just about clothes.
A woman can put on a pair of men’s pants and mans shirt (because it is more comfortable) without a problem.
But if a man wants to put on a skirt because it is more comfortable it is CD’ing and he is accused of being gay or wanting to be a women.
A CDer does not always try to emulate a woman, he is wearing women’s clothes because he likes them, more comfortable more colorful, lighter material, whatever.
Wearing woman’s clothes because one wants to be a girl is a whole other area. That is a transsexual. Women who stay with their Transsexual men are in a different class. There have been many articles and medical papers written on “Why do wives stay with their transsexual husbands”. It would be an interesting thread here. I am surprised it has not been done!
I perfectly understand why a women would drop a boy friend or husband that wants to be a girl. But I feel most CD’s do not, that is what I feel this thread is about, not transsexuals who want to be women.
You want to wear women’s clothes hence you must be gay and want to be a woman. That is the feeling among most people in this world, male or females.
Last edited by janedoe311; 04-27-2007 at 11:38 AM.
Yes you do hear it a lot. The reason is simple. Because it is OK for a women to put on men’s clothes and go in public. You see them all the time. The lesbians with their short hair, they do not necessarily want to be men or emulate men or try to pass as men, but they dress like men. No one (few if any) points at them and calls them names or refuses service or stands away or beats them up.
But if a guy wants to put on a dress he either has to contend with the "Bad Attention" he gets or try to PASS.
So passing is important not because they necessarily want to be girls but because they are trying to avoid getting beaten up.
What is wrong with wanting to “feel” like a women inside and outside and to be treated like a women. Try being a man you are ignored, walked over, bumped into, doors slammed on you,deliberately pushed into, cut in front of etc.
If one does not make "Passing" as a full time, and it is just a “release” once in a while, I do not see the problem with wanting to feel like a women.
Last edited by janedoe311; 04-27-2007 at 01:26 PM.
My wife "intrduced" me to crossdressing while we were dating back in the eighties. I finally came clean and told her I had done it before after playing along for about a week or so. She said I kinda figured that, you just didn't put up a fight and I wanted to let you know that it is OK. So honesty was and is the best policy in our marriage. I am one very lucky gurl!!!:blushing:
[SIZE="2"]"Tell me why I can't where a mini 'kilt' to work?"[/SIZE][SIZE="3"][/SIZE]
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