Second look, at gg's almost always in pants.

[Alice Torn]

I, like so many others, have lamented the death of the skirt, and dresses, on gg's. I love the way a skirt or dress, enhance a woman's beauty. Today, I noticed three gg's, including a white-haired older one, in skirts, and dresses. One gg, pumping gas, caught my eye, as she was in a short dress, and heels, and seemed to be really enjoying all the attention, including mine. But, I have been thinking about, all the attention gg's get, when wearing dresses, or skirts. A lot of it, is UNWANTED. My housemae, will not wear a dress, or skirt, since she was in grade school! I sense abuse, and rape, while she was wearing a dress, or skirt. She is not dealing with her issues, takes half a dozen meds, so she does not feel the hurt. I suspect, that many gg's were violated, in younger years, while in dresses, skirts, bathing suits, etc. I must say, that most guys are far more sexually excited, by a gg, in a dress, or skirt, showing legs, and in heels, than, in jeans, which are the unofficial uniform, for gg's these days. The miniskirt years, caused a women's backlash!! Don't show any leg, now. Wear pants most, if not all the time! Let's not let those males see ANY LEG, NOW! With society, becoming more and more violent, if I were a gg, I may well be very cautious, about showing any leg, and heels, too!! It is dangerous for men, let alone gg's!! Part of me, can understand, why so many are on guard, and leary of men. I , myself, am very cautious, especially, at six foot ten, in heels, of going out there, showing a lot of legs, and heels. With fun attention, comes unwanted attention. I stille would like to see more gg's in dresses, and skirts, but, I think I understand, why so many are wearing pants, to blend in, and be less sexually provacative. I find it harder to be sexually attracted more, when a gg, is in pants, than when in dress, or skirt. In a dangerous world, I can see why so many choose, to be less provacative, wearing the pants. It makes for less beautiful scenery, though!

[Jodi]

Lucille, I think you are reading way too much into it. Pants and jeans are very much in style today, and they are practical. Women want to be in style and many are just practical.

Jodi

[Eva Diva]

If you go to a big city financial district at lunch time, you'll see many young women in dresses and skirts - they dress for their job. They will often be in running shoes but they are not in jeans. College girls will go to class in jeans, but if they go out clubbing, it will be in dresses and skirts. Women dress far more casually than they did 50 years ago, but many women - like real estate agents and legal secretaries still dress in a "formal" manner.

[GACountrygal]

But, I have been thinking about, all the attention gg's get, when wearing dresses, or skirts. A lot of it, is UNWANTED.

Thats one of the many reasons I dont wear skirts or dresses. But it may not apply to everyone.

[Stacy GG]

For me mostly its a matter of amount of time I have available, if I haven't had time to shave ( bc of full time school & work load) I don't wear skirts or shorts..eww hairy legs! no one wants to see that!!
I do admit when I was younger and thinner I was much prouder of my figure and wore short skirts alot. As I get older, have less time to excercise, work and go to school. I find showing off my legs is not so important as making sure the car runs and school tuition gets paid . I suppose when I'm done with school dressing well might become more important..but it might not, I plan to have kids by then..so once again I'll have no time for showing off. practicality will be the name of my game.

[Stephenie S]

Lucille, a lot of the attention women get no matter WHAT they are wearing is unwanted. Your stated desire to be sexually aroused by looking at GGs provocatively dressed should send up a red flag for you. Not very many people want to be an object of sexual attraction just to pump gas or go to the bank. Please keep it in your pants.

Most GGs, and many non-GGs, myself included, want to live their lives unencumbered by strange men's sexual desires. I wear jeans because I don't want to be noticed. I wear a skirt because I like the way it looks and feels, not to turn you on.

What turns you on is your business, but please do it in private with a consenting adult, not a person pumping her gas or going to the bank.

Respectfully,
Stephenie

[Stephenie S]

Lucille, upon re-reading your post, I see that perhaps you may understand my point already. If you do, please accept my apologies. When I am tired I sometimes get a little cranky.

Stephenie

[cocopuff's girl GG]

The many women in the big cities that was mentioned most likely are wearing that because of a dress code or perhaps jeans are not exceptable wear in that peticular business. Most women now that have to dress a certain way for work are wearing business suits matching slacks and a matching jacket of some sort. I bet most of those women though who wear a dress or skirt everyday to work can't wait to get home and get in jeans and a tennis shoe or as some other's say sneakers. LOL If you notice the shoes women wear are coming down in the heels in everyday wear. Why you ask??? They are more comfortable. Now I don't mean special occasions women aren't putting on the high heels. Dinner occastions and such but I'm talking every day wear. I wear capri's almost all summer long. I love wearing that or just shorts. I normally don't wear a dress or skirt unless it's a wedding , funeral or a real specail occasion. I hate having the thoughts of putting on hose. LOL I know, just the opposit of the CDer. I can't wait to get my bra off at the end of the day and just let everything loose. Most of the CDer's can't wait to get their bra's on and even some want to sleep in them. It's not that I don't want to be femine or that wearing pants makes me have thoughts of being a man it's just that it's easier to wear clothes that you are more comfortable in. I think most GG's would agree with me here. It's all about comfort and girdles and hose and bra's and corsets and heels that aren't comfortable are just not worth it to me to wear no more than when I have to. I've never worn a corset so I really don't know what that feels like but it doesn't look all that comfortable to me.

[GACountrygal]

The many women in the big cities that was mentioned most likely are wearing that because of a dress code or perhaps jeans are not exceptable wear in that peticular business. Most women now that have to dress a certain way for work are wearing business suits matching slacks and a matching jacket of some sort. I bet most of those women though who wear a dress or skirt everyday to work can't wait to get home and get in jeans and a tennis shoe or as some other's say sneakers. LOL If you notice the shoes women wear are coming down in the heels in everyday wear. Why you ask??? They are more comfortable. Now I don't mean special occasions women aren't putting on the high heels. Dinner occastions and such but I'm talking every day wear. I wear capri's almost all summer long. I love wearing that or just shorts. I normally don't wear a dress or skirt unless it's a wedding , funeral or a real specail occasion. I hate having the thoughts of putting on hose. LOL I know, just the opposit of the CDer. I can't wait to get my bra off at the end of the day and just let everything loose. Most of the CDer's can't wait to get their bra's on and even some want to sleep in them. It's not that I don't want to be femine or that wearing pants makes me have thoughts of being a man it's just that it's easier to wear clothes that you are more comfortable in. I think most GG's would agree with me here. It's all about comfort and girdles and hose and bra's and corsets and heels that aren't comfortable are just not worth it to me to wear no more than when I have to. I've never worn a corset so I really don't know what that feels like but it doesn't look all that comfortable to me.

[Leah B]

I work near multiple college campuses and high schools. I see a lot of young women wearing skirts, and sometimes dresses.

[renee99]

Lucille, a lot of the attention women get no matter WHAT they are wearing is unwanted. Your stated desire to be sexually aroused by looking at GGs provocatively dressed should send up a red flag for you. Not very many people want to be an object of sexual attraction just to pump gas or go to the bank. Please keep it in your pants.

Most GGs, and many non-GGs, myself included, want to live their lives unencumbered by strange men's sexual desires. I wear jeans because I don't want to be noticed. I wear a skirt because I like the way it looks and feels, not to turn you on.

What turns you on is your business, but please do it in private with a consenting adult, not a person pumping her gas or going to the bank.

Respectfully,
Stephenie

I don't think that's quite fair. Am I supposed to turn tail and run when I feel a stirring down there? Should I apologize? Is it wrong if a man finds himself responding to big t*ts or curly hair? A turn-on is a turn-on, it's your own mind and body responding to your senses and shouldn't be shameful. I even think it is fine to compliment ladies on their presentation, and that it is beyond paranoid to think that it is out of place for a man to do that.

Shameful would be leering at that person just like staring at someone with a physical defect, or expressing your attraction to them when you don't even know who they are. These things are shameful because they make the other person feel cornered or annoyed. In other words, your being turned on doesn't even register on their radar unless you make an uninvited effort to somehow make it their business, which would again be considered shameful behavior.

Just goes to show how far the pendulum has swung in the other direction I guess. Almost to the level of thought-crime... leading to what we have today which is accusations of sexual harassment being wielded as a weapon rather than a defense in the workplace.

[Alice Torn]

I should have been clearer. Noticing lovely ladies, in dresses, and skirts, showing a little leg, is the normal male reaction. We are wired that way. It is what we do, with thoase thoughts, and turn ons, that makes the difference, between acknowledging seeing an attractive lady, even complimenting her, and lusting , wanting to have her. We all have to decide what we do with our desires, pulls, and thoughts. We all have them, including gg's.

[Stephenie S]

I don't think that's quite fair. Am I supposed to turn tail and run when I feel a stirring down there? Should I apologize? Is it wrong if a man finds himself responding to big t*ts or curly hair? A turn-on is a turn-on, it's your own mind and body responding to your senses and shouldn't be shameful. I even think it is fine to compliment ladies on their presentation, and that it is beyond paranoid to think that it is out of place for a man to do that.

Shameful would be leering at that person just like staring at someone with a physical defect, or expressing your attraction to them when you don't even know who they are. These things are shameful because they make the other person feel cornered or annoyed. In other words, your being turned on doesn't even register on their radar unless you make an uninvited effort to somehow make it their business, which would again be considered shameful behavior.

Just goes to show how far the pendulum has swung in the other direction I guess. Almost to the level of thought-crime... leading to what we have today which is accusations of sexual harassment being wielded as a weapon rather than a defense in the workplace.

I did apologise to Lucille.

What I am referring to, however, is the CONSTANT harrassment that ALL women experience on a daily basis. Men STARE at women. Men lear at women. Men make comments to women. Men follow women. Men whistle at women. Men pinch women. Men slap women's bottoms. Men put their arms around women uninvited. Men tell inapropriate jokes around and to women. Men slow down in cars and shout at women. Men proposition women. Men refuse to promote women who don't put out sexual favors in the workplace. Men EXPECT women to dress provocativly in order to please men's sexual fantasies. Men refer to women as inferior just because of their sex. Men think no means yes. Men . . . . . . . . . well, I could go on and on here. But mostly men consider this their birthright just because they are men.

And you want to excuse all this because of a stirring in your pants????

For goodness sake. Let women dress however they want. It's pretty egotistical to consider that women are here just for your own personal sexual pleasure. We get this lament on a regular basis here. "Why can't women wear dresses and skirts? Why can't women dress more provocativly? Why can't women dress sexier? Why can't we go back to the "Good old days" when women HAD to wear dresses? Doesn't a woman know how NICE she looks when she dresses up?" etc, etc!!

I overreacted to Lucille"s comment. But I feel that "out and about" IS an inapropriate place for a sexual turnon. Yes, when you find yourself sexually aroused by a stranger just living her life, pumping her gas, or going to the supermarket, I think you should re-examine your own feelings. Sexual arousal belongs in a private setting between CONSENTING ADULTS. It's not such a big step from public arousal to rape and pedophilia. "Oh, just look at how she was dressed, judge. She was asking for it". We have all heard that excuse, haven't we? And it's used, in some form or other, in every rape trial.

The fact is that many women are raped in small ways on a daily basis throughout their lives. And the fact is that many men consider this their birthright.

JMHO
Stephenie

[renee99]

And you want to excuse all this because of a stirring in your pants????

If you would actually read my post, I pointed to a clear divide between feelings and behavior.

For goodness sake. Let women dress however they want. It's pretty egotistical to consider that women are here just for your own personal sexual pleasure.

I don't know where you would think I reduce women to that just because I am attracted to them. Would you consider a lesbian who is attracted to women the same kind of threat as myself? What about a dominant woman who asks men out because she is attracted to them?

We get this lament on a regular basis here. "Why can't women wear dresses and skirts? Why can't women dress more provocativly? Why can't women dress sexier? Why can't we go back to the "Good old days" when women HAD to wear dresses? Doesn't a woman know how NICE she looks when she dresses up?" etc, etc!!

I think there is room for everyone to express their preferences.

Yes, when you find yourself sexually aroused by a stranger just living her life, pumping her gas, or going to the supermarket, I think you should re-examine your own feelings.

Re-examined. My stance on the matter is "Firm".

Sexual arousal belongs in a private setting between CONSENTING ADULTS. It's not such a big step from public arousal to rape and pedophilia.

It's not such a big step from finding a woman attractive to raping them and somehow becoming attracted to little boys in the process? I think you have some things seriously confused, not the least of which is the difference between thought and behavior.

"Oh, just look at how she was dressed, judge. She was asking for it". We have all heard that excuse, haven't we? And it's used, in some form or other, in every rape trial.

Since when has blaming the victim EVER been considered a valid defence for a violent crime? Except when it comes to killing gay people or crossdressers at least.

The fact is that many women are raped in small ways on a daily basis throughout their lives. And the fact is that many men consider this their birthright.

I think you've been reading far too much feminist propaganda. If you want to talk in metaphors, then we could just as easily say that "the fact is that many men are castrated in small ways on a daily basis throughout their lives. And the fact is that many women consider this their birthright." It adds nothing to the discussion.

I wouldn't enjoy a man obviously leering at me any more than you do. But it doesn't ruin my day to think that my presence allowed someone to experience some pleasant thoughts and maybe a fantasy later. People being happy is what makes the world work. When people aren't allowed to enjoy their thoughts, they have to be sold replacements for their thoughts in the form of entertainment that may be more corrupt and grotesque than the thoughts would have been. I insist that we limit our criticisms to actual offenses that have been committed.

[Stephenie S]

If you would actually read my post, I pointed to a clear divide between feelings and behavior.



I don't know where you would think I reduce women to that just because I am attracted to them. Would you consider a lesbian who is attracted to women the same kind of threat as myself? What about a dominant woman who asks men out because she is attracted to them?



I think there is room for everyone to express their preferences.


Re-examined. My stance on the matter is "Firm".




It's not such a big step from finding a woman attractive to raping them and somehow becoming attracted to little boys in the process? I think you have some things seriously confused, not the least of which is the difference between thought and behavior.


Since when has blaming the victim EVER been considered a valid defence for a violent crime? Except when it comes to killing gay people or crossdressers at least.



I think you've been reading far too much feminist propaganda. If you want to talk in metaphors, then we could just as easily say that "the fact is that many men are castrated in small ways on a daily basis throughout their lives. And the fact is that many women consider this their birthright." It adds nothing to the discussion.

I wouldn't enjoy a man obviously leering at me any more than you do. But it doesn't ruin my day to think that my presence allowed someone to experience some pleasant thoughts and maybe a fantasy later. People being happy is what makes the world work. When people aren't allowed to enjoy their thoughts, they have to be sold replacements for their thoughts in the form of entertainment that may be more corrupt and grotesque than the thoughts would have been. I insist that we limit our criticisms to actual offenses that have been committed.

Sorry, didn't mean you to take this personally. That's why I didn't address it to anyone in particular.

"Pleasant thoughts and maybe a fantasy later", is a fairly inocuous response and it doesn't ruin my day at all. But I really don't think that's what was being alluded to at all. Women are second class citizens in the majority of the world's societies, ours included. Just witness the overwhelming majority of members here who state unequivocally that, although they want to be women for a short period of time, probably for some only long enough to masterbate to climax, they would NEVER consider switching genders. That's because men have it pretty darn good.

However, that is NOT what I was talking about. I could repeat my paragraph about how women are treated on a daily basis again, but you could just reread it. It's true, every single statement and more. Many, many men (present company excepted, of course) consider this "normal" male behavior. It may very well be "normal" male behavior, but that does not excuse it.

While I apologize for making you think this was an attack on your behavior, I stand by my thoughts. It's true that at one time I did read a lot of feminist propaganda, it's a subject I studied years ago, and I consider myself a feminist today. But my present beliefs are based not on feminist "propaganda", but years and years of intelligent observation, and years and years of living with and listening to women. Dispite the views of many men, most women do NOT want to be considered, or treated as, sex objects.

Respectfully,
Stephenie

[renee99]

Women are second class citizens in the majority of the world's societies

True enough.

Just witness the overwhelming majority of members here who state unequivocally that, although they want to be women for a short period of time, probably for some only long enough to masterbate to climax, they would NEVER consider switching genders. That's because men have it pretty darn good.

Or maybe it's because they're not really women?

Maybe it's because taking their current happiness, adding whatever happiness might be gained by becoming a woman, but subtracting their wife, family, kids, job, about a year's salary, and the mental equivalent of a prostate examination whenever anyone discovers their past, somehow doesn't add up to equal or greater happiness than what they currently have?

No, it's because they want to exploit women, this time by leaving them out of the loop -- when before, they were being exploited by what you judged to be excessive desire.

May I ask, when AREN'T women being exploited, in your opinion?

Is a man being exploited when a woman is attracted to him for his power and wealth?

It may very well be "normal" male behavior, but that does not excuse it.

For every woman that doesn't excuse it, there's one that rolls her eyes at the other and basks in it. And the one that didn't excuse it will eventually find the perfect gentleman, who would have bored the other to tears. Yin and yang and all that. I don't see anything "wrong" with one or the other as long as they voluntarily choose their roles.

While I apologize for making you think this was an attack on your behavior,

I have only admitted feelings, not behavior. If you need a data point on my behavior, my gf had to ask me out, and had to make the first move as well. The fact that I would never act on a sexual feeling towards someone else doesn't lead me to deny that I have them, or wish that I did not have them.

but years and years of intelligent observation, and years and years of living with and listening to women. Dispite the views of many men, most women do NOT want to be considered, or treated as, sex objects.

If you were interviewing fellow feminists, I detect sample bias. Anyway, it doesn't matter. What they think, or what they say they think, doesn't matter. What matters is how they behave and what they communicate through that behavior. The same goes for men. We would agree that a man who is acting lecherous towards a stranger deserves a slap. What does a woman who is cupping her breasts and tossing her hair while talking to a stranger deserve? This is the double standard.

[stacie]

Has Don King productions taken charge of this post.
Most women do wear pants most of the time, But when it warms up, Skirts become more popular to wear. In the mid of winter pants are warmer to wear outside. Then again most crossdressers never go outside of their homes, Dressed as a female.

[Tina Dixon]

Yes this seems to be true women do where pants more but I was in northern Michigan this week end and I must say I have not seen as many women in skirts and dresses over the weekend as I have in a long time and I was very surprised and it was nice to see just a observation I noticed.

[Stephenie S]

True enough.

Or maybe it's because they're not really women?

"Maybe it's because taking their current happiness, adding whatever happiness might be gained by becoming a woman, but subtracting their wife, family, kids, job, about a year's salary, and the mental equivalent of a prostate examination whenever anyone discovers their past, somehow doesn't add up to equal or greater happiness than what they currently have?

No, it's because they want to exploit women, this time by leaving them out of the loop -- when before, they were being exploited by what you judged to be excessive desire."

I don't understand your point. Mine was that men have it pretty good in our society. I find it hard to argue otherwise.

"May I ask, when AREN'T women being exploited, in your opinion?"

When they are treated as equal members of society.

"Is a man being exploited when a woman is attracted to him for his power and wealth?"

Yes.

"For every woman that doesn't excuse it, there's one that rolls her eyes at the other and basks in it."

Not true. And many women "excuse" it. But not very many women "like" unwelcome sexual attention

"And the one that didn't excuse it will eventually find the perfect gentleman, who would have bored the other to tears."

Perhaps.

"Yin and yang and all that. I don't see anything "wrong" with one or the other as long as they voluntarily choose their roles."

The problem I am talking about is that few women voluntarily choose to be a sex object for strangers on the street.

"I have only admitted feelings, not behavior. If you need a data point on my behavior, my gf had to ask me out, and had to make the first move as well. The fact that I would never act on a sexual feeling towards someone else doesn't lead me to deny that I have them, or wish that I did not have them."

Good for you.

"If you were interviewing fellow feminists, I detect sample bias. Anyway, it doesn't matter. What they think, or what they say they think, doesn't matter."

This is typical of the thought process that I am talking about. To my mind, what women think, and what they say they think, DOES matter. I never interviewed feminists, I just lived with, worked with, and listened to women.

"What matters is how they behave and what they communicate through that behavior. The same goes for men. We would agree that a man who is acting lecherous towards a stranger deserves a slap."

Yes, we would agree to that. But not a slap, violence is rarely the proper response. The myth that women are somehow immune from the prohibition against phisical response to another human's improper behavior only perpetuates the thought process that I am arguing against.


"What does a woman who is cupping her breasts and tossing her hair while talking to a stranger deserve? This is the double standard."

She deserves the same disdainful rejection that a man who is grabbing his crotch and boasting about his yacht while talking to a stranger deserves.

Renee,

You still seem to be taking my previous posts personally. Relax, hon, I was not directing this at you.

Your interpretations of my statements change their meaning in several subtle ways. If you want to discuss something I said, please don't put words in my mouth. It's difficult for me to answer your objections to something I didn't say.

BTW, I don't know how to quote a previous post in different sections the way you (and many others) do. Could you please explain how to do that? It would help me answer specific sections of a post the way you did. The way I had to quote your post was clumsy and time consuming for me.

Anyway, I have enjoyed our discussion. It would be nice if others can take away some new ideas.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Tree GG]

I have only met one group of women where I felt a guy was endanger of rec'g unwanted physical contact - I only associated with that group once. Unfortunately, I've met way more than one group of men whose intentions were obvious.

There's nothing wrong with appreciating human beauty (male or female) - God (the universe) does great work. Expecting everyone to conform to what you think is attractive, however, is pretty narrow minded. Someone else may find the t-shirt, denim thing sexy. If you like skirts/dresses, fine...enjoy away. But please don't assume everyone else should equally enjoy.

Also, not all clothing is meant to be sexually attractive. There's more to life than sex and attracting the opposite sex. (Although that is a pleasant part). I find it interesting that TG or not, men seem to think that sexual attractiveness is way high in the priority list. Perhaps testosterone really does put the bulk of their brains in their pants (or panties).

[Stormgirl]

I have only met one group of women where I felt a guy was endanger of rec'g unwanted physical contact - I only associated with that group once. Unfortunately, I've met way more than one group of men whose intentions were obvious.

There's nothing wrong with appreciating human beauty (male or female) - God (the universe) does great work. Expecting everyone to conform to what you think is attractive, however, is pretty narrow minded. Someone else may find the t-shirt, denim thing sexy. If you like skirts/dresses, fine...enjoy away. But please don't assume everyone else should equally enjoy.

Also, not all clothing is meant to be sexually attractive. There's more to life than sex and attracting the opposite sex. (Although that is a pleasant part). I find it interesting that TG or not, men seem to think that sexual attractiveness is way high in the priority list. Perhaps testosterone really does put the bulk of their brains in their pants (or panties).

well said Ma'am

[Iniquity Blonde GG]

Sorry but i dont actulay like skirts or dresses much :blushing: unless it was for a very very special occasion but , i dont think its really the clothing that oozzzes the appeal , if that person gives off an "aura" about themseleves , then wearing a black bin-liner lol can be equaly as sexy !! its the person in the clothes that makes the outfit what it is

[Tamara Croft]

I don't like skirts or dresses, because they don't look good on me... a bin liner would fit better I prefer trousers, not jeans... jeans imho are tacky but then again, I see a lot of you wearing those each to their own right?

[Dasein9]

LOL! I love it! Well, the humour of it, not what's being said here.

Essentially, as I read it, a bunch of people who are striving, to one degree or another, to be more like women are telling the GG's on this thread what they do or should think and feel, whilst ignoring the things that they actually are saying.

Pretty much proves Stephenie's point, eh?

[Alice Torn]

I never heard of it. My point, was, that a lot more gg's are wearing pants, and jeans, instead of dresses, and skirts, to AVOID unwanted male attention. I was saying, that, taking a second look, at why so many more, are not wearing dresses, and skirts, and heels, of course, one reason, is comfort. The other reason, as, I have found, from some gg friends I have, is that they feel safer from unwanted male atention, and, that is another reason, they don't ever wear dresses, and skirts. I can understand their fears, as, I have found, from dressing up, in a dress several times, in public, DRESSES do bring far more male attention, much unwanted!