The wretched agony

[battybattybats]

I have spent hours, long hours in a protracted argument with my girlfriend.
I don't know how I can go on any longer. It is all so meaningless, so pointless. Her arguments are circular, self refferential, illogical. Not one piece of logic, my thoughts, feelings or evidence is accepted by her. I can't convince someone who won't even consider that they could be wrong. I am accused of 'looking into it too much' 'going too far (with my reasoning)' and then I'm called 'disgusting', 'selfish' or that I 'obviously don't want the relationship'. At one point she even said that all crossdressers should be lined up and shot. She goes on to say that the relationship is the only thing that gives her life any meaning... sigh. She says that I should change, that it is my fault that I say I can't because I don't want to and don't see anything wrong with it. She refuses to accept the posibility that she could change any of her opinions, come to accept my desires, live without the relationship or that proffessional help could help her in any way.

I have been trying to tell her for years now that I cannot keep restraining my needs. We tried counselling, my psychologist said that I needed to be more assertive, hers said she needed to learn to accept it or move on. Then she went to a social worker who apperently agrees with her and says that I should be able to change for her while the couple counseller we saw said that while I seem both unable and unwilling to change and she refuses to acknowledge the possibility that she could then she can't help and suggested we go see someone else who would more likely know more about the subject.. but my girlfriend since has said that the social worker thinks seeing them is a bad idea as because they are gay they may be biased so we should see get another refferral from my doctor for yet someone else.

I really care about her, I don't want her to go through this pain but I can't have all her pains rule me.. and its not just crossdressing where this keeps happening.

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.

I'm thinking of calling the police and telling them after she goes to work tomorrow morning.
So I feel an intense agony in my guts. Collosal fear. Massive self-doubt and a lot of guilt. I can't think at all clearly but I just don't see how I could do anything else.

[O2B Barbara]

Horrible situation for you to be in. I truly feel your pain as I have been in a similar situation myself. I once loved a person very completely, however when I realized that she would not be able to change her drinking problem I had to move on with my life. I am not able to change anyone but myself. I have a great life, she has a major problem with alcohol. I am happy with who I am and have a wonderfull wife that is the world to me. Tough decision for you to make. Sometimes things just don't work out the way we want them to. No guilt in that.

As for her threat of taking an OD, do you think she is serious or just blowing steam off? If you think she is serious at all, you need to call someone and help her be safe to herself. If you don't and she does you would have to live with that for the rest of your life.

Hugs,

[Wendy me]

[QUOTE=battybattybats;887176]

I really care about her, I don't want her to go through this pain but I can't have all her pains rule me.. and its not just crossdressing where this keeps happening.


i read your post and this struck me ... I really care about her, sounds like you have tried to get past it but might the best tool be missing just a bit???? love no were did you say love perhaps that might be better than the fear or splitting up and thoughts of some thing horrible to happen should it not work out....

[CaptLex]

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.

Sorry about your situation, Bats. This part of your post bothers me. It's manipulation, plain and simple. Whether she intends to go through with it or not, it sounds to me that she's trying to guilt you into giving in to her. That's a lot to put on someone else, and it's selfish. If she needs professional help, she should get it, but either way, that no good reason to give in to anyone. Where's the love? Just my

[battybattybats]

I think my altruistic love for her has been my enemy.. sigh, it has made me put up with things I'd not accept from anyone else.

[Robin Leigh]

I have spent hours, long hours in a protracted argument with my girlfriend.
I don't know how I can go on any longer. It is all so meaningless, so pointless. Her arguments are circular, self refferential, illogical. Not one piece of logic, my thoughts, feelings or evidence is accepted by her. I can't convince someone who won't even consider that they could be wrong.

At one point she even said that all crossdressers should be lined up and shot.

A person who makes such statements will never accept CDing. And will never accept you enough to really love you.

I really care about her, I don't want her to go through this pain but I can't have all her pains rule me.. and its not just crossdressing where this keeps happening.

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.

This is emotional blackmail. Do any of the councillors, therapists, etc, know that she's threatened suicide over this?

I'm thinking of calling the police and telling them after she goes to work tomorrow morning.

I suggest getting medical help before involving the police. Get in touch with the nearest mental health facility. They must respond to cases of attempted suicide.

So I feel an intense agony in my guts. Collosal fear. Massive self-doubt and a lot of guilt. I can't think at all clearly but I just don't see how I could do anything else.

It's horrible. I know. She is bullying you. No matter what happens, you must leave this relationship. It is not healthy for either of you.



Robin

[marie354]

I'm sorry about your situation, but people change all the time.
You might want to try not dressing for a while and see if she cools down a bit, and then bring the things up later, one at a time, and see if you can work out some kind of compromise.

You need to think things through for yourself and try to assure her that things can change for the better if you work at it.

No relationship, no matter how it looks on the outside, works perfectly. There are always compromises or agreements between both parties that each can live with.

[Lovely Rita]

Batty
I am so sorry to hear this. I would not even begin to give you advice on this dangerous matter. Can you speak with a professional regarding your girlfriend and get the best advice on what action to take. Maybe the person who counselled you both?
So sorry

[uknowhoo]

I am so so sorry, Bats to hear of this terrible situation you're in. My wife suffers from depression and anxiety, and I understand how incredibly difficult it is trying to deal rationally (often more of a guy thingy) and effectively with someone who's not capable of doing the same. Among the most important things to keep in mind is you are responsible for your actions, and she for hers. I agree with the Capt, don't let her do that to you. It's emotional abuse, plain n simple. It's not fair to you, or to her either really. Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, and of course, I don't know enough about your situation to make such a determination, but it just seems to me putting an end to this and gettin on with your life would probably serve you best in the long run. Good luck, sweetie. xoxo Tammi

[battybattybats]

Yes all the counsellers know that she has threatened suicide and all spoke about how she needed to work on her self value etc. All also repeatedly told me that I can't be responsible for her actions. She doesn't appear to have listened.

Can the medical services take her in against her will? I'm 100% certain she wouldn't go willingly.

I've barely dressed in the last 4 years after she told me she had a problem with it. I tried giving it up, it didn't work but since I have tried to tell her that, she said that she could not tolerate it at all and would kill herself if we ever broke up.. years of trying to get that catch 22 to change haven't worked. She won't listen to any assurance, she has a fatalistic pessimistic point of view and is 100% certain that she is right

[Lovely Rita]

Batty, it sounds like a very tough situation. I will keep you in my prayers.
Again so very sorry.

[Kate Simmons]

I think you are a real trooper Batty, given the situation. I do think she has other issues though besides CDing. We can't always have things totally our way all the time, no matter who we are. Life just isn't that simple. I do wish you well and hope things work out for you.

[battybattybats]

Thanks for your concerns everyone. She is now, as far as I know, asleep. At least she has stopped calling the housephone from her mobile then hanging up. I don't know if I should sleep on the couch or try to avoid sleep alltogether till she heads off to work at 5 in the morning (it's half past midnight here now).

[TxKimberly]

I don't have the foggiest idea where I would go at this point if I were you.
Obviously, this IS blackmail of a sort, and yet it is from someone you obviously care about, so the "typical" responses to blackmail may not apply. So I can't offer and answers, but maybe it will help to clarify the problems.
1 - She has threatened suicide. Not that I have personally seen this a lot, but the times I HAVE encountered it, those that threaten to commit suicide rarely make a serious attempt at it.
2 - Your relationship and CDing. If you wont/can't change and she wont/can't tolerate the way you are, and you two can't reach some sort of compromise, then this seems to leave very little room between the rock and hard space. Have you considered a compromise with her? Something along the lines of you don't do it around her, and she doesn't give you hell for doing it when your not together?

Personally? I have no trouble understanding a woman saying "I can't be in a relationship with a cross dresser". I think most of us that are willing to look at it objectively can at least understand why a woman might feel that way. But a woman who uses the threat of suicide to get what she wants would scare the hell outta me. I think I would have to seriously consider running as far from her as possible and as fast as possible.

Kim

[Robin Leigh]

Can the medical services take her in against her will? I'm 100% certain she wouldn't go willingly.

Tricky. She has to be in the act, not just talking about it. When they arrive, she can deny it if it's only words without actions. Emergency departments have to deal with lots of attention-seeking "fake" suicide calls.

I've barely dressed in the last 4 years after she told me she had a problem with it. I tried giving it up, it didn't work but since I have tried to tell her that, she said that she could not tolerate it at all and would kill herself if we ever broke up..

You've done your best to minimize it, but she still can't accept it. You can't salvage this situation, especially with the suicide threats hanging over you. Get out ASAP. These scenarios just keep getting worse, IME.

If you think she'll be safe, I suggest sleeping on the coach. If you can. Best to have a clear head in the morning.

If you can't sleep, I can keep chatting. I slept most of the day.



Robin

[battybattybats]

Have you considered a compromise with her? Something along the lines of you don't do it around her, and she doesn't give you hell for doing it when your not together?

Whenever I, or any of the counsellers have suggested things like this she says that doing it in front of her is unacceptable (and that's fair enough and perfectly understandable) but doing it when she is not around is "doing it behind my back and that is deceptive and I can't allow it". Whenever I pointed out that if she knew I was doing it but didn't witness it then it wouldn't be deceptive she responded by saying that knowing I was or might be doing it was just as bad as doing it in front of her and she could not compromise.

Her idea of compromise is me finding something else that doesn't cross her 'boundaries' that will somehow fill my need for crossdressing and that I should be able to work out what this mysterious alternative could be. Pointing out that others have tried and failed to find this sort of alternative and that most, maybe all, who try and quit eventually return to it I get 'but you're not other people' and 'why can't you be the first' kinds of responses.. sigh.

I'll try and sleep eventually I think. Not for a while though.

[sandra-leigh]

When finally she realised I really meant it and would no longer be ruled by her feelings she said that the relationship was effectively over, that it was my choice and that she would take an OD tomorrow and that she hopes I'd find it 'worth it'.

I suggest that you call a local suicide crisis line yourself; the people on those lines are trained to know how to react in these kinds of situations. You do not need to be thinking of suicide yourself to call: they should be willing to help you cope with suicide threats from those around you.

[sandra-leigh]

1 - She has threatened suicide. Not that I have personally seen this a lot, but the times I HAVE encountered it, those that threaten to commit suicide rarely make a serious attempt at it.

20-ish years ago, I had a GF who threatened suicide several times. The attempts that she made might not have been "serious" (that is, she might not really have wanted to die, just to manipulate or get attention), but they were none the less truly life threatening. She might have arranged them so that she would likely get caught, but she went through with them -- and who knows, that might have been the day when the other people she knew had become stuck in traffic or had encountered long grocery-store lines or missed the bus and ended up walking, etc.. Any of the possibly-not-serious attempts could have ended up succeeding due to circumstances.

I regret to say that that GF just totally burned out the love I had for her. Other girlfriends I had or were seriously interested in, I still think of from time to time and wonder how they are and hope they are doing well and would be happy to meet again and talk about old times and about life -- but the GF I am referring to, I now just roll my eyes on, shake my head about her ruined life (and the lives of those around her whom she has sucked in to her lifestyle of incompetence), and if I did have anything to say to her, it might come out like "You've really made a crock of it, haven't you?". It took me years to get over her, and I consider my emotions to still be partly burned out by the experience.

Sometimes, caring just isn't enough. You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped, who will sabotage attempts to help, and you can seriously burn yourself out trying to cope.

[Melanie R]

There is only one solution to this situation. Your girlfriend needs to move on. If you continue the relationship, then your life will continue to be miserable. If she did not have a problem with the sressing it would be something else that bothered her. She is a loser you do not need. Move on and do not look back.

[MJ]

well bat you know sometimes it's better to understand some woman will never get it or understand why you / we do what we do .. sometimes it better to say good bye and move on... this I'll OD myself stuff scares me but for your health please move on

[brenya]

leave her ass, sorry I'm cynical today

[sobe1ove GG]

I'd like to draw everyone's attention to this quote:

...while the couple counseller we saw said that while I seem both unable and unwilling to change and she refuses to acknowledge the possibility that she could then she can't help...

You are doing exactly what she's doing. You are unwilling to change, yet you expect her to? That's unfair to her. She may be lame for threatening to commit suicide and you should probably break up anyway, but I think it's lame to criticize her for not changing when you refuse to as well.

This is a problem that I'm having with my boyfriend and with the crossdressing community in general. I, as the GG SO, am expected to just like everything and do all the changing. I am the one that has to do the soul searching. And if I don't? Than I'm an unaccepting bitch and there was nothing ever wrong with the CDer.

I will never think it's okay that the CDer can introduce something so life chaning and relationship changing and I have NO say in it. I just have to like it or leave. He 'can't' change or hold back. I'M the one who has to.

How is that fair?

Sobe

[brenya]

is it really changing yourself to simply accept how somebody else is? this is why my next relationship is going to be 100% honest from the get go "this is who I am" I see so many people on here who are just so unhappy with their current relationship, I don't want to be unhappy like that, feeling like I need permission to be who I am, I NEED A SMOKE

[Alice B]

Well Batt, that is really a mess and one you need to distance yourself from as soon as possible. There appears to be little core feelings and value in the relationship and in my opinion the threat of taking ones life is not valid, but a form of blackmail. And that is not any kind of footing to keep a relationship alive. Move on. It may be tough, but in short order you will be a lot happier. There is someone out there that will accept you for who and what you are and when you find that person you will find true love.

[Caroline]

Batty,

There is much that could be said in response to your post, but suffice to say that I think you should simply move on immediately and learn to live without your girl-friend.

But whatever you decide to do, please do not feel guilty if she goes through with her threat to commit suicide, for that would be doing exactly what she hopes for, and it would be completely wrong - though understandable - for you to feel that it was somehow your fault, when it isn't.

All the best.