Laughed at AGAIN

[Pantyjason]

So last night was the macy's lady. today it was the victoria secret girl. SO you gurls told me that Victoria Secrets would let me try on lingerie in the store...she laughed and said no...i'm soo defeated.

J

[wtb Jessica]

look if they know what they are doing and care enough about the sale and customer then yes they would let you try them on. I have been asked before in victoria's secret would i like to try on what i have or would i like to look for a matching bra.
Jessica

[Katrina]

That is unbelievable. These people need some transgender sensitivity training.

[Cai]

Did you insist that you were seriously interested in trying on and buying? She might have thought it was a joke/bet/dare and you weren't going to buy.

But that's pretty bad behavior for a salesperson, to laugh at a customer.

[Kim_Bitzflick]

I'm sorry about that. All I can say is that each sales associate is different. Maybe you just need to find the right store or even city.

[Pantyjason]

and I quote.

"Miss"

sp - yes

me- I have a serious but embarrassing question to ask

SP - Smiling, no problem, what is the question

Me - If I wanted to try on something in the store, would that be allowed?

SP - chuckled

me - I'm serious, I really would like to try on a couple the sale bras

SP - Men are not allowed in the changing room

Me - hmmm bummer

walked out sad and jealous at all the girls diving in to the sale bins and their cute shoes..hehe

[Sharon]

Other than panties, which just isn't done anywhere by anybody, I have never had a problem at Victoria's Secret.

If you weren't inquiring about trying on panties, but, rather, another item, then the sales person was out of line and you should have asked for a manager. If the manager wasn't accomodating, then I would take it to a district manager or corporate headquarters.

[Pantyjason]

taking this to a district manager since she would freak if she knew I was still dressing

[Sharon]

taking this to a district manager since she would freak if she knew I was still dressing

I understand that.

I suggest you either return at another time and ask another associate, or just take your business elsewhere then.

[Holly]

and I quote.

"Miss"

sp - yes

me- I have a serious but embarrassing question to ask

SP - Smiling, no problem, what is the question

Me - If I wanted to try on something in the store, would that be allowed?

SP - chuckled

me - I'm serious, I really would like to try on a couple the sale bras

SP - Men are not allowed in the changing room

Me - hmmm bummer

walked out sad and jealous at all the girls diving in to the sale bins and their cute shoes..hehe

PJ, in your thread yesterday another member suggested eliminating the word embarrassing for your conversations with sales associates. It comes down to having confidence. What you project is what will be returned to you. Asking the SA where you could try on the items would have been a better approach, IMO.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

me- I have a serious but embarrassing question to ask

Well they should have been professional regardless, but....

Part of the problem is that you're acting like it's something to be embarassed about and presuming she'll say no.

If I'm out en femme, I just ask them to start room for me. (With shared dressing areas, even though there are individual rooms, I'm sensitive to "safe spaces" -- which might have been an issue at the particular store -- so by asking the question that way it does allow them to say if it would be a problem. But I've never had anyone say no.

When I was in a store last weekend in guy mode, I was eyeing a cute skirt and when the saleswoman asked if it were for a wife or girlfriend, I said no it's for me. There was a bit of pause, so I followed up with, "Betcha weren't expecting that where you." The saleswoman laughed and said no, she hadn't. And from then on things went fine. She went and got my size from the back and when she saw me measuring it (I carry a pocket-sized tape measure for occasions like these), told me that no one was in the dressing room, so why didn't try it on.

Bottom line, while I know you're feeling a bit beat down at this point, people will often take their cues from you. If you act like it's no big deal, they're more likely to act the same way.

And as others have said, if they don't treat you like a potential paying customer, then complain.

[AmberCdCutie]

that's a terrible way to react to you...it is one of the reasons
that i have not wanted to go out and do much shopping, but
i think its awesome that you 'get back on your horse' after
having it happen, i respect that a lot!

[Stephenie S]

Trying clothes on is NOT something to be embarrassed about. It is an important part of clothes shopping. Or perhaps I should say it is an essential part of clothes shopping. I never say, "May I try this on?", I always say, "Where can I try this on?", or, "Where is the dressing room?" You need to act like it's gonna happen, because if it don't happen, there's no sale. Which is exactly what happened in your case, you walked out and didn't buy anything.

This leads us to the second important point here. They HAVE to know you are buying. If they think you aren't a serious shopper, you are not going to get the respect you need. SA are professionals. They make their money by selling things. If they think you aren't buying, they are going to move on to someone who is. So, you have to present the right attitude. Asking an "embarrassing" question might have scotched the deal right there.

Who knows what went wrong, dear. In any case, don't get discouraged. You have gotten some valuable pointers here. Take them and keep trying. ALL of us who have done this have been successful. Get back on the horse.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Glenda58]

Did you go dressed en femme if not I wouldn't let you in the fitting room. A man in a fitting room where women are disrobing would look like you just wanted to look at women. If dressed then you are a serious customer wanting to buy a outfit. Was the store busy? If not then maybe they would let in. The SA were just looking out for the other customers. You are ONE they are many.
I shop dressed and try not the fitting rooms in the lingerie dept. if there are a lot of women there.
I'm not trying to make you feel bad but to look at what the SA has to do to protect the other customers.

[Avsblues19]

If you want to take your business elsewhere, try Fredericks of Hollywood. They have great bras and are very CD friendly. I went in there in male mode looking for a teddy, and she asked what size my gf was. I told her it was for me. She was shocked at first but treated me like a lady after (eventhough I was very masculine looking). She even persuaded me to try on a bra in their fitting room.

I wouldn't ask to try on panties. The SA at Fredericks told me they don't even allow women to try on panties.

[Princess29]

I too had very friendly dealings with a Fredericks of Hollywood store. They let me try on various corsets in one of the changerooms with absolutely no problems. They asked was I looking for something nice for my girlfriend and I said "no, for myself" and they hardly batted an eyelid.

[sandra-leigh]

I never say, "May I try this on?", I always say, "Where can I try this on?", or, "Where is the dressing room?"

Myself, I usually use the phrase, "I'd like to try this on." I've never been refused. I have been redirected to the mens changerooms on another floor (and no, the changeroom nearby was not marked as being women's). I've been redirected to other women's changerooms on the same floor (that were lesser used). At exactly the same department store as those previous two redirections, I've also been sent right in to the changeroom in the middle of a women's clothing section, and which had women in other stalls.

In one place I was asked by the owner to wait until all the women left (left the store, that is!); the owner's daughter was embarrased by her mother and got me in to a change room while there were still several women trying on things in other changerooms; those other women customers didn't appear to mind even a little. After my purchase, the owner asked me to call ahead and make an appointment to shop after hours in future. When I discussed this with the local cross-dressing den-mother, she said that she was amazed I even got that far, as previously the store-owner had absolutely refused to have anything to do with crossdressers.

In one place (a bra store), I was asked to come back near the end of the day when no women were around. But the last time I went, a different SA sent me to a changeroom without hesitation, and was of considerable assistance in the bra fitting; there were two or three women customers in the changerooms at the same time. A problem for one SA, no hesitation for a different SA at the same store.

In any case, don't get discouraged. You have gotten some valuable pointers here. Take them and keep trying. ALL of us who have done this have been successful. Get back on the horse.

I mentioned some minor difficulties above, but those were notable because they are relatively rare in my experience. I've gone into department stores and womens' clothing stores and shoe stores and women's boutiques, completely in drab, and said that I wanted to try some piece of women's clothing on, and have been served without hesitation.

As I related in one of my recent threads "Getting bolder (or stupider)", I've gone in drab (noticable forms, but no wig or makeup) into a women's boutique, taken my time looking through the items, tried them on, and come right out into the main part of the store to show them to the SAs and to all the other customers, with the other customers speaking up to say which of the pieces they thought suited me the best, without the slightest bit of gigling or insincerity (I love that store ) The other customers might never have seen a guy in a dress before, but they helped me just as if it were perfectly normal, just another gal customer. (Did I mention that I love that store? )

I walked into a department store tonight 15 minutes before closing. Did the SA want to know why a guy wanted to buy 5 pairs of women's panties? Nope! What the SA wanted to know was why I don't get a store points card, since she knows that I shop there often enough (in the lingerie department) to accumulate some discounts.

There are two keys to success: to act like you belong, and (more importantly) to know that you do belong.

Look at the merchandise, flip through the racks, feel the fabrics, pull out out things and hold them up to look at them, ask the SAs about the styles of clothes you are looking for -- don't be looking around to see who is watching. If your shopping movements are the same as any other typical customer, then you will not look out of place, and even though people might look over and see that you are a guy, you will immediately drop out of peoples' attention, because you are doing what fits in. Actions in a store speak louder than gender (provided you are dressed in pretty much the same socio-economic class as the other customers.) If you are acting like you have something to hide or like you are ashamed, then people will be more likely to judge you a pervert -- but if you are acting right at home there, then "Oh, he must be a fashion consultant or something, there's lots of men in the fashion industry".

And the easiest way to act like you belong is to know that you belong! It's a store, you're there to buy (or to look as sincerely as anyone else looks), you're a human -- who cares what anyone thinks? If you are afraid of people thinking of you as a crossdresser, then other people are going to pick up on that. When you have accepted yourself as a crossdresser, accepted the fact that crossdressing is part of you, then most SAs will find that they have no problems at all helping you and no problems in finding ways to make the situation work for you.

[AllieSF]

Hi PJ,

They were wrong and it was not your fault that they turned you down. I have heard a lot of "this store is TG/CD friendly". But it all boils down to the individual SA, the time of day, day of week and phase of the moon when you ask. You were honest in your request and they should have respected that, period. They did not. Taking it to a more senior SA or Store Manager is OK for some people to do, but not all of us are so out of the closet and self-confident. Again it was not in any way shape or form your problem. Yes, it helps to rephrase your question in a more affirmative and direct manner. I assume you are not there yet, and maybe like me, tend to think of the perfect reply or way to ask someone in the most positive manner too early or too late. All I can recommend is that you do not take it personally and just rack it up as another growing experience that hopefully one day you can laugh about. Also if you were wanting to try on panties, that is a no-no everywhere by law for health reasons. Good luck and keep trying.

[sandra-leigh]

Did you go dressed en femme if not I wouldn't let you in the fitting room. A man in a fitting room where women are disrobing would look like you just wanted to look at women. If dressed then you are a serious customer wanting to buy a outfit.

Could you clarify, Glenda, whether you yourself are an SA? When you say "I wouldn't let you in", are you talking about what you yourself do in practice, or are you talking about what you think you would do if you did happen to be an SA?

I've gone shopping for women's clothes far more often in drab -- it's a nuisance to go home and get all dressed up and to go from there to stores, especially as I don't drive.

As I outlined in my above post, I rarely have any trouble at all. But when I walk in to a store, I really look at things, checking out styles and colours and fabrics, and acting exactly like I've done this hundreds of times before (which I have, by now ) The SAs see at a glance that I'm a serious shopper, not someone there to pay attention to the women customers. They know that when I ask to try something on, that that is exactly what I mean, that I want to try the clothes on, and that there's a good chance I'll buy one or more of the items I have in my hands. The key to their assessment of whether I'm a serious shopper or a peeping tom is the way I hold myself proud, and the way I act, and the way I look at the clothes, not whether I'm currently dressed as a woman or not. These things are obvious to any SA with any experience: I look like (i.e., act like) a good solid customer. And it doesn't take them very long to make that assessment, either: it can be as simple as the fact that I made a beeline for a particular kind of clothes, in which case I'm someone who came in with a purpose and who knows what he wants.

I was in a bra store a couple of weeks ago, and one of the SA's had to run out to do something for a short time, but there was another pair of customers in the store. The SA who was assisting me glanced over at the SA who was trying to decide if it was okay to leave, and told the other SA, "Don't worry, they're just looking", and promptly turned back and kept helping me. Yes, I was a guy (in drab) in a bra store, but the SA had quickly assessed that I was a lot more serious about buying than the female customers were. I wasn't trying to sneak around hiding the fact that I was a guy: I was there openly, acting completely natural for a serious customer -- and I got good service (complete with serious bra fitting assistance, with the woman looking at me in the bras to see whether they fit properly.)

A guy who arrives dressed as an uneasy woman and who doesn't act natural and gets 'read', might be allowed to try on things on "compassionate grounds", but would, I would think, be judged as likely to buy something to avoid the embarrassment of being thought to be not serious. But when I walk in in my guy clothes and quickly convey through my body language that I belong there, they know that I'll shop seriously, that I'll buy something if I feel it suits me and not otherwise, that I might well buy several things -- and that if I like what I see, that I'll be back again. They are fine with having me use the changerooms because they've already quickly assessed that I'm a shopper, not a peeper.

[Dixie]

[SIZE="3"]Men are not allowed in the changing rooms??????? When my wife bought her first bra at VS they let me back there with her to help her, of course she teased me saying I bet you wish you could try this on huh? ...Yes. Well maybe we should ask if they have one in your size.... Any way back to the point, they let me back there with her.[/SIZE]

[sandra-leigh]

Also if you were wanting to try on panties, that is a no-no everywhere by law for health reasons.

PJ indicated in the conversation transcript that it was "some of the sale bras" that were to be tried on.

By the way, the laws around here are that panties and swimsuits may be tried on, but only on top of another garment (that is, keep your existing panties on here while trying on panties or a swimsuit.)

[kerrianna]

Keep batting girl, just keep your head high and know that you will get your wish.

Like the other girls have said a huge key is KNOWING you have a right to try things on that you intend to purchase. Try practising some of the suggestions you have received here. Practice them at home first if it helps. And before going into the store tell yourself that this is your lucky day because you're going shopping and you'll find some things you like and you'll try them on and some will fit you and you WILL buy them. Get your positive vibes way up so when you deal with the SAs they KNOW you are serious and have done this before lotsof times.

I'm not sure why you're softening your approach except you think you may embarass them or yourself, but you only are embarrassed if you let yourself feel that way, and who cares if they are embarrassed? They have jobs they are paid to do. Ask with confidence, just like you were holding a pair of slacks in your arms in the men's department and had to ask for someone to let you into a fitting room.

Try again, hon...chin up...eye on the ball....

[Caroline]

PJ,

A couple of people mentioned in your other thread (myself included) not to present the assistant with an 'embarrassing' situation - i.e. STOP using that word, because it is you who is making it embarrassing when it isn't!

As I said yesterday, I treat the whole business as entirely normal, and have never been refused, though a couple of times I have been asked to come back when the store opened or was nearly closing, but what's the problem with that? Not as convenient, perhaps, but not really a problem.

Having said that, your response to the assistant's refusal was all wrong too. When she refused the use of the changing room, you should have then asked if it was OK to try the bras on at home, and if they would agree to refund the money if they were not suitable for ANY reason.

Don't be such a wimp in future; you are a CDer, not a rug for other people to walk all over.

And stop using the word 'embarrassing'!!!

BTW, don't know what the situation is in the States, but over here (UK) it is illegal to discriminate against anyone on the grounds of their sexual orientation, and that includes CDers! You can report people who do and they can be prosecuted for it. Maybe you should look into that and, if you ever meet another refusal, mention that refusing permission is discriminatory.

Be more positive next time, and things will work out for you.

[Phyliss]

I mentioned in a recent post about my latest shopping experience, the following conversation:

She: "Everything is returnable within 10 days if the store tag is still on."
Me: "Well, with the cost of gas today, there's only one way to find out if it fits without having to make a second trip. Which way to the dressing room?"

The point here is: I expected to be able to try on the items. If the things don't fit then I've wasted my time and money. Plus, remember if your somewhat embarrassed the first time, think how you'll feel the second time when you have to make the return. Get it right the first time honey.

[Nicole]

Don't be such a wimp in future; you are a CDer, not a rug for other people to walk all over.

And stop using the word 'embarrassing'!!!

I don't think PJ is a wimp. It takes a lot of nerve to walk into an uberfeminine enclave like Viccies when dressed en homme and ask to be fitted for a bra, especially for a newbie!

Agreed that the word 'embarrassing' should be left out next time. If you are nervous, go early in the morning or late at night when fewer customers will be there. That might help you to work up the courage to do it.