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Thread: Sexual reality check

  1. #1
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Sexual reality check

    SO issues concern all of us enormously, particularly wives and girlfriends. Even those of us who aren't in a relationship are interested, and most would like to find a suitable companion. I have followed related threads with great interest ever since I joined the forum.

    Aloha Dana's recent posts (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ead.php?t=5337) in particular prompted some of the thoughts expressed below, but I didn't want to hijack her thread, so I've started this one in the hopes of spawning honest, thoughtful discussion of at least one aspect of a CD + wife relationship — sex — simply because I think most of us would agree that rare is the relationship that can survive sexual conflict or dysfunction. Of particular interest is Dana's admirably frank mention of his "kinky" tastes, CDing as a form of sexual stimulation and his wife's far more conventional inclinations.

    Note: please bear with my use of some generic terms — kinky, vanilla sex, normal, etc — in order not to get mired down in semantics. I think we all know the associations these terms usually convey. Also, those of you who dislike long posts might want to skip this thread. These kinds of issues are far too important for glibness, and I hope contributors will speak at whatever length they need to express their thoughts.

    Thought #1: On the physical level, Dana's wife's revulsion (a feminized man "grosses her out") strikes me as perfectly normal. To understand how she feels, just mentally reverse your roles — you're straight and she wants to be a man — and do a gut check on how you would feel. Dana's posts have made me realize that a CD is asking his wife to not only accept his abnormality, but to also become abnormal with him. Now before you react in predictable ways, I'll grant you that to an extent such a concept of normal is predicated on pre-conceived social mores, but that doesn't change the fact that this conditioning is very real and deeply ingrained. Moreover, there's not a general population opinion forum in the world that wouldn't resoundingly validate her sense of normalcy.

    Thought #2:
    A former SO of mine likes sex — in fact, she loves it. Over the years we played our share of games, mostly at my prompting, just to spice things up. (These games did not include CDing as I hadn't begun that yet.) She played along, even enjoyed most of them, but we both knew that given a choice, she would always opt for "vanilla" sex — let's just get in bed and get it on, no games, no props, no kink. I think this is far and away most women's preference. For most women, the voluntary limit of experimentation is different positions and oral, and some women, indisputably repressed, can't even handle that. I might add that my experience has taught me that many women fantasize just as much as men (take your pick — sex with a stranger, bi-sexual, stripper, orgy, etc), and can enjoy incorporating the vocalization of fantasy into their lovemaking, but when push comes to shove they aren't really interested in acting on those fantasies. (Caveat: see Thought #5 below.)

    Thought #3: I believe that it is natural for a woman to react to her man's taste for kink with the nagging worry that she isn't exciting enough for him anymore. Remember when you were dating and you just couldn't wait to get her clothes off, when that was all the stimulation you needed? In her heart, that's the way she wants it to always be, no matter that neither of you is as physically attractive anymore, no matter that you've "done it" a gazillion times, no matter that a man might be using kink as a substitute for his natural inclination to have sex with multiple partners. This is just how she is emotionally and biologically wired.

    Thought #4: An inherent characteristic of kink is that it is progressive, CDing being but one example. An insidious characteristic of kink is that it tends to displace the ability to be stimulated by or satisfied with vanilla. I think women know this instinctively and is why so many of them worry about how far their man wants to take CDing, and whether the time may come when he is no longer satisfied with just one sexual partner or one gender.

    Thought #5: The one fantasy statistics suggest more and more women are willing to act on is adultery. If a CDer doesn't handle his woman's issues and needs sensitively and responsibly, and assuming she sticks with him, I would think he has upped the odds of her having an affair. If she doesn't get what she needs from her mate, she may actively seek it elsewhere, or passively succumb to the opportunity should it present itself. She might stick with the marriage because of emotional ties or out of a sense of responsibility, but her craving for the conventional male-female dynamic may become too strong to resist. If she has an affair, you can bet that the sex is going to be vanilla — conventional gender roles, conventional stimuli, uncomplicated sex.

  2. #2
    Platinum Member ChristineRenee's Avatar
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    Very good post Sherri. Very thought provoking and insightful. There is nothing inherently wrong with "vanilla" sex, so to speak. But many people like to try the "31" flavors out too. It can help keep the sexual aspect of marriage fresh and stimulating. Where problems arise is when both partners have vastly different attitudes and concepts about what the sexual realtionship between them should be. Some partner's are naturally more inquisitive, or just have much more imagination, i.e., role playing, fantasy, etc. Again, this is where attitude, and trying to meet the needs of your partner come into play. Those that are put off by that which is abhorrent to them...and that abhorrency can vary by a very large degree...really limit the potential enjoyment that can be obtained by just letting yourself go and getting caught up in the moment. It all comes down to the individual and what you want out of the relationship from the sexual standpoint here.

    Good topic and thread Sherri!

    Love,
    Chrissie

  3. #3
    Island Girl
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    Raising The Bar

    Sherri, you are definately raising the bar here. Are you a psychologist or a lawyer?

    Thanks for referencing my post. I'm simply glad that it has spawned some thought (and greatful for the invaluable feedback).

    I have to agree w/your thoughts (all of them). With regards to the sexual aspect, my wife has definately expressed feelings in-line w/thoughts 3 and 4. At one point she was in tears asking why the vanilla wasn't good enough anymore. And in another conversation she has asked where is it going to end? So you're right on the mark, at least w/our relationship.

    With regards to thought 5, you bring a good point that breaking society's norms does put the relationship at risk and sets the stage for a SO to go outside to get back to her comfort zone. This is probably why the time factor, slow and easy, is so important when we out ourselves. Taking all this into account, it is probably wise for those who are planning to, or have already done so, to step back and reassure their SO's that she is central to his relationship through words and actions such as vanilla sex.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Ariel_TV's Avatar
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    Good thread!

    Personnally my experience with my girlfriend has been completly different but that prolly because my girlfriend loves kinky stuff. And it not because she wants to please me , i can see her eyes light up when we get a new toy or try a new thing.

    For my cding it easy since my girlfriend is bisexual , she finds it very stimulating and excites her alot . It the best of both world for her , she gets everything a mans got but with the looks and softeness of a woman. Also when we make love we both strive to bring maximum pleasure to the other, it not about ourselves but about the person we are trying to bring pleasure too. It brings a great dynamic where the pleasure of the other bring pleasure to yourself. Since she knows my cding bring me alot of pleasure it turns her on and in turn turns me on since i know she is excited by it making our love sessions more intense for both of us.
    Ariel Pinklover

  5. #5
    Silver Member Priscilla1018's Avatar
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    Hi Sherri,

    Very interesting thread. Personaly, I have not had even vanilla sex with my wife or anyone else since 1987.Why it stopped? I do'nt know. Yet our love for each other goes beyond sex.I came out to my wife two weeks ago, her first question was, what do you want from me? My answere was ,only understanding.She has accepted me as I am, and as far sex goes, she has been grabing my butt alot to feel the panties under my jeans. Who knows I may get lucky.
    Over the years I have had many opportunities to have sex with other women but.have never taken advantage of them. I am sure my wife has had opportunities also, I do'nt believe she has acted on them either. I am just
    taking small steps for now and life is good until,of course my depression acts up again. It's been happening a lot more lately.
    Wow this is turning into too much of a downer.

    Sorry if I am so depressing,
    Love and Hugs,
    Priscilla
    Love and Hugs,
    Priscilla

  6. #6
    Love my little puppy Ashleigh's Avatar
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    Sherri,

    Thanks so much for this thread. I was actually in the process of building a thread just like this in response to LorieCrowe's thread that started quite a response. You have covered the information masterfully so I will let it stand also since you did a better job than I would have. There is one section of my post that I will retain and add to this thread when I get it finalized that will dovetail with your starter.

    Meanwhile, WELL DONE!
    [SIZE=4]~ASHLEIGH~[/SIZE]
    Finis Origine Pendet (The end depends upon the beginning)

  7. #7
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristineRenee
    But many people like to try the "31" flavors out too. It can help keep the sexual aspect of marriage fresh and stimulating.
    Hey, personally I'm right there with ya, Chrissie. Trying to maintain a certain sexual piquancy over the long haul can be a challenge (plus I'm just naturally naughty by nature ).

    The problems arise when you have a vanilla | spicy conflict and the partners get stubborn about things.

  8. #8
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariel_TV
    my girlfriend loves kinky stuff. And it not because she wants to please me , i can see her eyes light up when we get a new toy or try a new thing.
    I know they're out there, and I've experienced a little of that. I'm glad you posted. The exception sheds light on the norm, and on what realistic goals can be.

  9. #9
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloha_Dana
    Sherri, you are definately raising the bar here. Are you a psychologist or a lawyer?
    Neither. Just a deep sleeper.

  10. #10
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priscilla1018
    Personaly, I have not had even vanilla sex with my wife or anyone else since 1987....and as far sex goes, she has been grabing my butt alot to feel the panties under my jeans. Who knows I may get lucky.
    Damn Priscilla, I thought I was going through a dry spell!

    Wouldn't it be wonderful if crossdressing led to the resurrection of your sex life?!? Now that would be a story.

  11. #11
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashleigh
    Sherri,

    Thanks so much for this thread. I was actually in the process of building a thread just like this in response to LorieCrowe's thread that started quite a response. You have covered the information masterfully so I will let it stand also since you did a better job than I would have. There is one section of my post that I will retain and add to this thread when I get it finalized that will dovetail with your starter.

    Meanwhile, WELL DONE!
    I can't wait to read your post!

  12. #12
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon935
    You're certainly forcing me to tap on my noggin here Sherri. I love it -- making us think about our SO's for once instead of just ourselves ... I could touch on your other points as well, as they pertain to my own experience, but this reply has grown long enough. Nevertheless, just writing about it is very therapeutic.

    Thank you.
    What a great post, Sharon. I was very moved by it. Very. Thank you.

    What a great example you were in your marriage. Striving for balance, not just thinking of yourself, soliciting her growth and expression. It seems to me that a key ingredient of successful integration would be the setting aside of our own stimuli at least some of the time in order to give our wives the more traditional attention they desire.

    Please please keep posting.

    xoxo

  13. #13
    Finding my way Krissi's Avatar
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    Great thread as always Sherri, got me ol head a spinnin today thinkin on this topic. I've got a few points to add of my own. More like X Factors I guess, but here goes.

    1. Kids - My wife and I don't have kids yet, but we keep my 5 yo nephew a lot. I don't know if anyone else has noticed but those ankle biters can sap the energy right out of you. I would think with kids around, especially if they are sleeping nearby the only flavor you're getting is vanilla, let alone any of the CD toppings.

    2. Time - This is a biggie with us. When she works (and she finally got a new job, yeah!!!) she works retail, so she sees some really weird hours. There have been times that we have literally had to schedule sex, just to make sure that I stayed up late, or she got up early so we could. That kind of life can lead to nothin but vanilla in a hurry. Her last job was at Starbucks, her store was open from anywhere from 5:00 am til Midnight, and she they kept moving her to new stores further away, at the end she was driving more than an hour to get to work. That was the worst, that's where the scheduling came in.

    3. Her - This is probably more along your original thoughts Sherri, but I am blessed to have a wife that considers herself somewhat bi-curious. Acutally she is such a guy about this. She wants one night with Pam Anderson (she has a thing for big breasted blondes) just to see what its like, and of course I say you and me both. Anyway, she has curiousities, fantasies, and fetishes she may never persue for real, but she lends her own creative juices to our sex life so that its not just me living out dreams. Me dressing and us playing different things lends its self well to her Bi-curiousness and other fantasies depending on what we do.

    4. Passability - Look I made up a new word...lol. I'm a big girl, at 6'2 230lbs, size 15 feet, big hands, broad shoulders, etc I'll never pass as a woman on this planet. I have a pretty face, great legs and butt, however when it is all said and done, my wife doesn't have to worry about me becoming a woman (because thats not my desire) or me dressing up and going out on the town to meet men. There are some girls here that I have to remember which site I'm on when I look at them, they can be that convincing. I think those like that probably face more tension from our wives than I do. I'm a small town, country boy, redneck, ex jock that loves to dress and act like a woman at times. My wife has talked to me about how if I was passable she would be more worried about that even though she knows what kind of person I am.

    I probably ventured more into just married life and sex in general, but those things can effect what kind of sex we have as well as how often. My wife and I have high sex drives and wild imaginations, but there are times that wham bam thank you maam is the way of the world.
    Krissi

  14. #14
    Member ToniB's Avatar
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    What a great thread. We're getting real heavy here, but it all makes a lot of sense.

    Ariel, can you get your girlfriend to talk to my wife and tell her what she's missing? Please!

    ToniB

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    my wife and i have hade our ups and downs in our marrage ........sex from wam bam thank you mam.............to hanging from the celing........toung tyed and twisted.........
    through the good and the bad ............never cheating..........marryed is marryed ..........no dateing alowed .........mabey old fashion but thats that........



    [SIZE=7]can you see me now??????????????[/SIZE]

  16. #16
    Intermediate Member racheal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy me
    my wife and i have hade our ups and downs in our marrage ........sex from wam bam thank you mam.............to hanging from the celing........toung tyed and twisted.........
    through the good and the bad ............never cheating..........marryed is marryed ..........no dateing alowed .........mabey old fashion but thats that........
    Hmmm, Wendy - that's an interesting time (and time again).
    XOXO,

    Racheal

  17. #17
    Unofficial CD Mom Holly's Avatar
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    Sherri,

    Most thought provoking. Don't know that I'll be able to shed any new light on anything but here goes...

    I'm a highly monogomus hetro male. I've been married to the same wonderful woman for over 36 years. She constantly amazes me. I respect her enough that I will not discuss the most intimate part of our lives together publically. What I will say is that both of us have made it a point to put the other first in the physical aspect of our relationship.

    On thought #1- I think you have an insight here. Most of it, unfortunately, caused by a society that has conditioned us to react in a negative manner to anything considered "deviant." Too bad... causes a lot of unnecessary stress on all kinds of relationships... male-female, black-white, gay-straight, etc.

    On thought #2- Frankly, I see nothing wrong or boring with vanilla. Besides, vanilla can be "spiced up" with a little whipped cream, a few chopped nuts (no pun intended... okay, maybe a small one), fruit topping, chocolate fudge, M&M's, and on and on and on.

    On thought #3- I can understand your point of view but I don't think it's just the kink that plants seeds of doubt in the mind of our GG's. "Does this outfit make me look fat?" "Why don't you tell me you love me?" "How do you like my hair?" You are absolutely right, IMO, when you state that's how they are wired emotionally. Women love being reaffirmed of their femeninity, desirability, and sexual attractiveness. Heck, many of us feel the same way!

    On thought #4- I'm just not convienced that kink is necessarily progressive. Perhaps it is more that we are not being honest with ourselves when we embark on a path of what our ultimate goal will be. I'm probabably as guilty of this as anyone. And often it is not intentional, just sloppy thoughts and not looking at the long range. I blame society for this also with the gratify now and to heck with the future attitude forced upon us in nearly every advertisement we see.

    On thought #5- Again I don't believe this phenomenum to be particular to the CD community. Statistics show divorce to be up across the board. Anyone, be they CD, gay, "vanilla", or whatever, who doesn't take care of the total health and well being of their partner runs the risk of pushing them into the arms of someone who will. As CD's are we more at risk? Dunno.

    That's my $.02.
    Fulltime girl on the inside.
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    [SIZE=4]Holly[/SIZE]

  18. #18
    Still Learning
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    Well

    Good thread Sherri:

    Almost 2 decades ago now, there were some big problems. The problems were not with my gorgeous wife, but with me.
    Once I accepted this phenomenon, then all was well.

    Problems now?....none, zip, nada, zen and zoodle.
    But it is never flaunted, or forced. Just a way of life in our household.
    Matter of fact, my wife is my biggest fan, and helps tremendously with my make-up, etc.
    She is secure. She knows she will never lose me to another woman. (32 years?) ( Where the h....., would either of us go?)
    After all, who but she alone, would understand me.?

    I guess it all boils down to one thing for both of us ( kids are grown and gone). Freedom.


    Me
    [size=4]*Marlene*[/size]

    It is better to be "immortal" than "mortal"

  19. #19
    Banned Read only Helana's Avatar
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    Sherri

    How funny that I read this as for some unknown reason I had some similar thoughts this morning about sexuality and CDing and what it means to our SOs.

    I agree with you that many women have no desire to join in our "abnormal" behavoir, and realistically unless you know she is sexually ambitious you should understand that it really is a big no-no. I would never coerce my SO into doing anything against her will.

    I also agree that while some women are sexually liberated and can reach orgasms easily, for most women sex, while very enjoyable, is a physical affirmation of the relationship and their attractiveness to their partner. When a man loses his sexual appetite even for a short time, the women tends to get worried, very quickly and thinks the worst because she thinks it has to do with her.

    Vanilla sex is normally just fine for women as they are still getting their emotional fill but for men we need to explore our sexual fantasies so that we can continue obtaining the maximum sensation. Thus different positions are tried but these soon get routine too, then different locations are tried, again it can become routine, then they may start looking for "danger" by doing it where they could be easily caught etc. Each is an escalation and usually it is the man who is pushing this. I wonder how often the women just goes along because she knows that she must in order to keep her man satisfied.

    My girlfriend is an interesting example. She is not into kinky things like bondage, humiliation, role playing etc at all - she is mostly a vanilla girl. However on a trip overseas I bought some strap-on dildos and then showed them to her upon my return. She was somewhat surprised!! - this was something she had never seen or even thought about. Anyway I did not push it but did leave them lying around. A few days later while playing around together she said she wanted to take me and she has not looked back since - in fact she loves taking me all the time. I asked her why and she gave 2 reasons
    1. the mindblowing experience of role reversal, her having the dominant role and penetrating another - it is something totally unexpected and rewarding.
    2. watching and feeling how I react to her thrusts, listening to my moans etc - she could see from my reactions how much I enjoyed this and this turned her on as well.

    So I have a sexually conservative girlfriend who loves to poke me! From her and my perspective, it does not matter who gets penetrated as it is vanilla sex either way. It is just that we share the task of being the penetrator and share the emotional satisfaction of being taken.

    This has helped her vocalise her desires better as well when I am on top - we can look each other in the eye and we know what each other is experiencing. I usually dont bother bringing myself to orgasm either during or after being taken, we usually just cuddle and say how much we love each other - thus I have learned how to think of sex as a way to reaffirm our love and not as a way to obtain sexual gratification.

    It is a great shame that social conditioning prevents many women from sharing and swaping gender and sex roles with their SO. In all honesty, I am by far, much, much closer and more loving to my current girlfriend than any of my previous girlfriends because I can fully share my whole self and she can explore for herself within the safety of a loving relationship. It has been an eye-opener for both of us but I know I am the lucky one.

  20. #20
    Banned Read only Helana's Avatar
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    Sherri, don't want to hijack your thread but as I typed out my post I remember reading this article which sums up the sharing of the gender/sex role written by a woman who penetrated her boyfriend. It is pretty revealing about the emotions this conjures up - if you are conservative then don't read it!

    I felt embarrassed and shy as I velcroed myself in, unsure of how to play the man. We lubed the thing liberally, than Adam got up on his hands and knees. I gingerly poked at him from alpha doggie position; he stopped me and flipped onto his back. He wrapped his legs around my waist, which sent the first shock of non-recognition. What had always felt rather take-charge from below felt completely passive from above, a nervous welcome. The Boss had a weird consistency, so I rolled a condom over it. As Adam reached up to help, as I had so many times, I felt the second shock. As his hands fluttered around this missile in my lap, he was like a child playing at a grown-up task. I marveled at how much the penetrator drives every part of this act, something that had never been apparent to me as penetratee. Adam's eyes widened as I pushed in slowly, a little at a time, stopping to ask "OK?" every minute or so. His breaths were shallow; he urged me on.

    As "my" huge appendage disappeared inside him, his eyes showed shame, trust, fear and a sort of helpless adoration. In a way I'd never understood those words before, he was mine. The knowledge I could really hurt this person by being less than careful made me feel responsible, protective. The vulnerability appalled me at the same time; it was vaguely disgusting that he would let someone do this to him. Mixed in with the disgust was possessiveness. The thought of anyone else penetrating him seemed revolting. These observations clicked into place in quick succession; I felt like a projector being loaded with slides of maleness, of male seeing.

    I saw all this as if from a distance, perhaps because my nerve endings weren't involved directly in the drama and perhaps because Adam and I weren't in love. Were souls entwined, I imagine, the Boss would dive much deeper into power, identity, empathy. But my experience was weirdly sociological and clarified much that had confused me. I saw why men feel entitled to women as possessions, why women must be protected from other men, especially from sex with them. Why a woman's, not a man's, virginity is "lost" and why her sexual activity inspires disrespect. I also felt the allure of a virgin, of being singled out for that gift.

    This view of heterosexual sex looked far less like a mirror than my woman's view. I realized as I ****ed Adam that at some of the most connected-feeling moments of my life, I was having an utterly different experience than the man pushing into me. Regardless of who's initiating, who's on top, or who holds what emotional reins, I realized, surrender is at the center of my sexual experience; invasion at my male partner's.

    With the Boss, I was conquering, silent, responsible, the taker. With his legs spread, Adam was agreeable, inviting, ashamed, taken. I felt closer to him that night than any other time, because we changed in front of each other's eyes. Parts of ourselves that had been locked away from it engaged in sex for the first time.

    The world looks different since then. I was riding up a steep escalator a few weeks after I took Adam's cherry, idly watching the butts up ahead of me as I usually do -- as a pleasing shape. And suddenly a slide clicked over the round female bottom perched above me: Access. Men aren't just admiring the curve of a butt the way women do; they're negotiating access. It's a hill to be taken.

  21. #21
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    I don't have an SO, nor have I ever had one in the conventional sense of the term. I lost my virginity to a GG I met over the internet that LOOOOOVES CDs/TVs, etc. Problem there is that she was married, and when we met in real life, she met a THIRD party a week before (who also was a CD). We lived several states away mind you also. Long story short, she got divorced, I fell out of love with her, and last I read, she re-married. I'm guessing to that other CD.

    The second girl I met on the net didn't know I was a CD. But we only spent a weekend together and that fizzled out.

    I am still interested in meeting a fellow CD/TV/TS as I am curious, but I'm holding out for the right one.

    At my age and after my life-time of experiences (don't ask) I have no interest in having a steady relationship nor do i ever wish to marry. So dressing is no problem for me.

  22. #22
    Always be true to you... TrueGemini'sWife GG's Avatar
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    Wink From a GG's point of view..

    First...
    Gem, don't kill me baby!!

    LOL...

    I have read these posts, super job Sherri!

    I am not quite sure where I fit in, but here I go...



    Until Gem, I had never had an intimate relationship with a CD'er before, but if you had read some of my previous posts, you know I not only am accepting of Gem's CDing, I also encourage it. I have also never been attracted to another female, so I wouldn't consider myself bisexual. What I do know is that I love when Gem dresses and it is such a turn on for me. We have lots of "vanilla" sex and that is really great too, but when Gem dresses, it is just, well, different. I find Gem very sexy in femme clothes and without saying a word, it's like playtime for us! Sex is completely different when Gem is in femme mode. I don't do it just for him, though when in femme mode he likes to play the part. I like being able to help that side come out whenever Gem wants it to. I don't do it just for myself, because in all truth, I love to make Gem happy.

    So I guess the bottom line is, I love every aspect of Gem. Both the male and female side and I think that is what the motivation is when it comes to our sex life and life together in general. I have never felt jealous or insecure. I have never felt that just "Me" was never enough, I have never had the urge to cheat or seek anything from another, because Gem is the best of all worlds for me. The femme side gives my heart and soul all the love, tenderness, gentleness and nurturing I could ever need. The male side gives me the security and comfort my mind needs when it comes to that "being taking care of" thing woman have, at least this woman has. It is that hunter and gatherer thing I guess. (I find that side really sexy too...LOL!)

    Gem has this prefect balance when it comes to my needs and I think, I hope, I give him the same thing. At least he tells me I do.

    So I suppose with that being our foundation, the rest of our relationship benefits from that and just kind of follows suit, which includes our sex life. I guess my adventurous side plays some role in it too.

    LOL!

    I guess to wrap this up I will say again, as I have said so many times...
    I am sooo lucky to be a wife of a CD'er and I wouldn't change a single thing about my Gem, even if I could..

    PS..
    Gem, I was a good girl! I didn't give too much info, right Honey?
    LOL!!!
    I love you baby!
    Lots of Love,
    Pattie

    ______________________________________________


    "~Éirinn go Brách~ "


    ~May you always find...
    blue skies above your head,
    shamrocks beneath your feet,
    laughter and joy aplenty,
    kindness from all you meet.
    Good friends and kin to miss you
    if ever you choose to roam
    and a path that's been cleared
    by angels themselves,
    to carry you safely home.~

    Irish Blessing

    http://www.mtcalvary-lcms.org/Music/amgrace.mid


  23. #23
    Platinum Member ChristineRenee's Avatar
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    Very sweet post Pattie......ain't love grand?


    Love,
    Chrissie Bear

  24. #24
    Texas gal sherri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly
    I'm a highly monogomus hetro male.
    This is so key, isn't it? How we can expect any degree of acceptance if non-consentual promiscuity is a factor. I know we tend to be rather high-minded about this here in the forum, assuming we're all above that, but in my experience the reality is that a great many CDers are perfectly willing to cheat on their spouses. Very disconcerting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly
    Most of it, unfortunately, caused by a society that has conditioned us to react in a negative manner to anything considered "deviant."
    Quote Originally Posted by Holly
    On thought #2- Frankly, I see nothing wrong or boring with vanilla.
    Nor do I. Hope I didn't imply that. It's just that the moment you bring your own femninity (or some other flavor of kink) into the bedroom, many women are going to feel that vanilla has been left behind. If that circumstance becomes the predominant norm in the relationship, she is going to experience a rather profound sense of dissatisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly
    On thought #3- I can understand your point of view but I don't think it's just the kink that plants seeds of doubt in the mind of our GG's.
    Of course not! Good point. It's just that I had intentionally narrowed the focus of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly
    On thought #4- I'm just not convienced that kink is necessarily progressive. Perhaps it is more that we are not being honest with ourselves when we embark on a path of what our ultimate goal will be.
    See, I think there is abundant evidence to the contrary. Maybe it's not "necessarily" progressive, but it takes a pretty strong individual to keep it in check. Take the matter of pornography, for example — I don't think there's much question that it harbors the potential to be addictive, and that it can corrupt our sensibilities to the point of degrading conventional sexual appetites and relationships. (By the way, as an aside, I have picked up on numerous indicators that suggest that our younger generations, male and female, are more candidly imbibing in pornography, and I can't help but wonder what impact this will have on normative values.)

    Now you may not be prone to addiction to pornography, just as I am not prone to alcoholism, whereas the next person might be. It seems to me, however, that the majority of CDers arrive at a mental/emotional/psychological point of "no turning back", which is interesting because for every CDer who was "born to be feminine", my observation is that several others come to it as a fetish — in other words, just another form of kink — but either way, the net result is progressive ... very progressive. In the case of the authentically predisposed TG, this progression may well be a natural and inevitable flowering, whereas the fetishist's actions might at best be thought of as a sort of self-reconditioning and at worst as obsession/compulsion.

    The significance of all this in this thread is the rather inevitable desire to bring our feminine personalities and physical manifestations into the bedroom, what that means to our GGs and how best to make such an arrangement satisfactory for both. Personally, I have zero experience with this, yet it is an aspiration of mine, so one selfish motive of this thread is to learn other ladies' experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly
    On thought #5- Again I don't believe this phenomenum to be particular to the CD community.
    Heavens no. But I tell ya, a lot of posts give an impression of self-absorption, and that strikes me as a recipe for a frustrated, dissatisfied mate. If the statisticians are correct and more women are cheating and divorcing, the added stress of crossdressing can be risky.

  25. #25
    Unofficial CD Mom Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherribicd
    This is so key, isn't it? How we can expect any degree of acceptance if non-consentual promiscuity is a factor. I know we tend to be rather high-minded about this here in the forum, assuming we're all above that, but in my experience the reality is that a great many CDers are perfectly willing to cheat on their spouses. Very disconcerting.
    Very discouraging, indeed, if true... and it may very well be. I freely confess that my face-to-face experience with other CDers is limited (although not non-existant). I can't say with any certainty that we, as CDers are any more promiscuous than non-CDers. It's sad that promiscuity runs rampant in our general population. What ever happened to commitment?



    Quote Originally Posted by Sherribicd
    Nor do I. Hope I didn't imply that. It's just that the moment you bring your own femninity (or some other flavor of kink) into the bedroom, many women are going to feel that vanilla has been left behind. If that circumstance becomes the predominant norm in the relationship, she is going to experience a rather profound sense of dissatisfaction.
    Perhaps I should clarify. Holly stays out of the bedroom. That is my wife's wish and I absolutely respect it. I would be willing to do otherwise but ONLY at her request. I will never try to initiate that. I love her too much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sherribicd
    See, I think there is abundant evidence to the contrary. Maybe it's not "necessarily" progressive, but it takes a pretty strong individual to keep it in check. Take the matter of pornography, for example — I don't think there's much question that it harbors the potential to be addictive, and that it can corrupt our sensibilities to the point of degrading conventional sexual appetites and relationships. (By the way, as an aside, I have picked up on numerous indicators that suggest that our younger generations, male and female, are more candidly imbibing in pornography, and I can't help but wonder what impact this will have on normative values.)

    Now you may not be prone to addiction to pornography, just as I am not prone to alcoholism, whereas the next person might be. It seems to me, however, that the majority of CDers arrive at a mental/emotional/psychological point of "no turning back", which is interesting because for every CDer who was "born to be feminine", my observation is that several others come to it as a fetish — in other words, just another form of kink — but either way, the net result is progressive ... very progressive. In the case of the authentically predisposed TG, this progression may well be a natural and inevitable flowering, whereas the fetishist's actions might at best be thought of as a sort of self-reconditioning and at worst as obsession/compulsion.
    I'm not sure I understand the corolation between "kink" and addictive behaviours. Few, if any would disagree that addictive behaviours, wheather they be due to alcohol, drugs, pornography, gambling, shopping (okay, maybe not shopping ) are detrimental to the individual and to society. It's the "kink" in the world that gives us the variety and the ability to see and understand differing points of view. How boring it would be if we all just marched along in lock step with each other. (Unfortunately, I totally agree with your observation that the younger generation ia getting more and more caught up in the addiction of pornography... just more evidence that people are more willing and predisposed today to put themselves and their own satisfaction ahead of everyone and everything else ). Maybe we're stuck on some word definations here, but I suspect that we are thinking along simular lines here. Your comment about the CDers who are "born to be feminine" really struck a cord with me. Being feminine and being female are two very different things. Those who are women, trapped in a man's body, my heart goes out to them. But that's not me. The femininity that Holly brings to my life I do cherish. She's the loving, soft, vunerable, caring, unselfish, nurturing person that I normally am not. I know that I canot speak for all CDers but I am unabashadly unashamed of the femininity in my life. Thanks, Sherri for helping me focus in on that a little clearer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherribicd
    The significance of all this in this thread is the rather inevitable desire to bring our feminine personalities and physical manifestations into the bedroom, what that means to our GGs and how best to make such an arrangement satisfactory for both. Personally, I have zero experience with this, yet it is an aspiration of mine, so one selfish motive of this thread is to learn other ladies' experiences.
    Here, Sherri, I have to disagree a little. Yes, I do have that feminine personality thing going and I actually make a consious effort to exert it's effects in everything I do, including what goes on in the bedroom. I believe it encourages me even more to place the needs of my partner above my own. But as I said above, I will not ever force the physical manifestation of Holly in a physical, intimate way upon my wife, so I disagree that it is inevitable. It's really not even a goal. Perhaps if I were younger (I'm an old broad) I may think differently... but I like to think that I wouldn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sherribicd
    Heavens no. But I tell ya, a lot of posts give an impression of self-absorption, and that strikes me as a recipe for a frustrated, dissatisfied mate. If the statisticians are correct and more women are cheating and divorcing, the added stress of crossdressing can be risky.
    I agree that any activity engaged by either party which causes the other to feel isolated and unfulfilled raises the odds dramatically for an unsuccessful relationship. I believe this is the main reason the advice given so often here to take things slowly and to constantly reassure our SO's that we love them and need them as much or more when we come out to them is so important. One thing I can say with absolute certainty is that a selfish crossdresser will never have a fulfilling relationship. As far as that goes, any selfish individual will never have a fulfilling relationship.

    Wow, I better climb down off this soapbox. Seriously, Sherri, thanks for starting this thread. I may fight it sometimes, but I do need to think these things through.
    Fulltime girl on the inside.
    Lipstick=confidence

    [SIZE=4]Holly[/SIZE]

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