Perception of others

[5inchHeels]

Consider this post my thinking out loud rather than a strong opinion.

This board is great because it provides advice, support, and guidance to everyone with few strings attached. I know the site has helped a lot of members deal with the challenges of a lifestyle outside of societal norms. That's an awesome thing.

However, I sometimes question the advice that is given by many members of this community. Questions like, "Should I get a pedicure?" or "Should I shave my legs?" are always answered with a "YES! No one cares!" Usually followed by statements such as "It's all mental" and "I get compliments." The advice is well intentioned, but it's not always practical or completely truthful.

It often seems that reality of others perceptions is lost in trying to live out the fantasy of being a woman (I use fantasy in the least offensive way possible and for lack of a better word. I know it's far from that for many of us). My point is that we shouldn't ignore that if we pluck our eyebrows and paint our nails there's a good chance others will notice and think it's strange. People do notice and most do think it's strange.

I'm not going to get into how to handle the perceptions of others and how to change those perceptions, but I wanted to express a view that doesn't seem to be talked about much in this community.

I'm completely open to alternative viewpoints and would love to hear from those of you who agree or disagree with me. Now it's mirror time, I've been out of town for nearly a month and my eyebrows are in serious need of a plucking!

[AllieSF]

I like the point that you make. All of us are in different stages of "development" (for lack of a better word) and what may work for one is no guarantee of success for the other. However, I do think that experience speaks a lot if we try to understand the comments in a broader sense. When someone recommends/repsonds with "go ahead and shave your legs, go out shopping and tell the SA that you want to try on the bra", or some other outing type of recommendation, I think that a lot of the "experienced" people here have realized that by doing that they have been able to express their own freedom to do as they wish and that by taking that extra step, another burden has been lifted from their shoulders. That is, the result of the recommendation is not just that your legs are now creamy smooth and soft or that you finally got a bra that fits correctly, but more that the person has done something specifically for themself that enhances and helps to progress their freedom to be who they want and to build up their confidence in themselves for other potentially more important steps like coming out to family and friends.

The person receiveing the recommendations needs to realize that the comments/responses offered should be filtered, analyzed, rejected, accepted or modified to fit their specific situation, circumstance and personality. If I asked a specific question here, I would want to get all the different types of responses to see what my options are and maybe even learn why one option is better or worse than another one. In the end, however, it is my life and my decision.

[Joy Carter]

Dear 5IH. I think some are here to see what reaction others may have to a given topic. Others are here for support. If a guy or girl wants to do something out of the norm I have no problem with that. As long as they hurt no one or themselves. We are all here to grow in the understanding of our selves and others. I wouldn't go back for anything.

So what was the question again ? LoL

[Angie G]

some times some one wants to polish therer nails or shave but just can;t do it without a little push so they ask and we and we give them that push
Angie

[O2B Barbara]

A lot of us are for advice and opinions as well as support and acceptance. I would hope that individuals would sort out the advice and apply as they see fit. My circumstances and stage of coming out is different than others. Sometimes all that is needed is a different point of view.

You bring a valid point to the front to remind us all that all we can do is support and offer suggestions. We each are individually responsible for what what we do with those suggestions.

[Kate Simmons]

Yeah, some people do notice sometimes, Hon, some to the point of getting pretty damn nosy and pushy about it too. Sometimes, I wonder what they are trying to prove. So, I shave my legs and you don't. I pluck my brows and you don't, what's that got to do with coffee beans in Colombia? I say to blazes with 'em if they can't take a joke.

[Denielleinheels]

It is really a hard call as to why people ask what they should do. I get manicures and pedicures all the time. I shave my legs all the time. My ears are double peirced. I get some weird looks all the time. But I am also me ALL THE TIME. What is right for one isn't always right for another. Sometimes we need to be pushed one way or the other. Fortunately my job allows me to be a little wierd so it doesn't really matter.

[Marla S]

Perception of others is a tricky thing.

We have to override it, otherwise we would be trapped a life long in our closets.
But overriding is very close to become ignorant and blind. That's a trap too and we can't expect acceptance for it.

Again it is a balancing act of breaking rules but not becoming ignorant and blind.

I think we only can achieve that in an iterative process, where we hope to find our personal comfort level. Meaning becoming ourself enough to at least survive, but not too ignorant to still be taken seriously as a person.

I am a bit afraid of scenes like this
http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/brian/brian-07.htm
Though it is damn funny (in the movie theater, but not in real life)

[Jocelyn Quivers]

I guess it comes to what level of self acceptance certain people are at. Yes I shave my legs, arms, everywhere. I will whenever asked about it give my standard answer "yes, I shave and why are you checking out my legs?" My getting to that level of openly admitting to shaving took a couple of years.

Yes I feel more normal about it from being on this forum, but in the end it was something that I myself had to feel ready for. The same goes with going out dressed. I read several post about members doing it. I did it one time but, it took time (years) for me to reach that level of development, and I did it at a level I was comfortable with. I guess in the end what ever way I choose to venture further out of the closet has more to do with how comfortable I feel about myself. Jocelyn

[5inchHeels]

some times some one wants to polish therer nails or shave but just can;t do it without a little push so they ask and we and we give them that push
Angie

That was the point I was getting at. Usually we don't know anything about the persons background. Do they have a family? Do they interact with others who will judge them on their appearance? Could a change in appearance have a negative effect on their job?

A line is crossed when moving from desires to reality that can have real consequences.

[chucks]

i live in a hippie town so i don't think people care so much. but for me, any risk i can think of is far outweighed by the benefits of feeling good and natural. when you are afraid of other people being judgmental of you, that is kind of like agreeing that it is unacceptable behavior.

[Rebecca Petersen]

I think the advice given is done so with good intent, but unfortunately the ramifications of the advice are different for a great number of different readers. This also is a place that sometimes overlooks what societies condemnation can do to an individual, or that individuals family.
We tend to have a "Go for it" attitude and the reader must determine if that course is right for them. Kind of like buying a used car...Buyer beware.

[Stephenie S]

However, I sometimes question the advice that is given by many members of this community. Questions like, "Should I get a pedicure?" or "Should I shave my legs?" are always answered with a "YES! No one cares!" Usually followed by statements such as "It's all mental" and "I get compliments." The advice is well intentioned, but it's not always practical or completely truthful.

My point is that we shouldn't ignore that if we pluck our eyebrows and paint our nails there's a good chance others will notice and think it's strange. People do notice and most do think it's strange.

my eyebrows are in serious need of a plucking!

Well hon, I have edited your post for brevity.

First things first. Please remember, we don't pluck our eyebrows. We pluck a chicken. We tweeze our eyebrows. LOL

So, seriously now, about your questions.

The advice I give here on this forum is well intentioned. Thank you. However, I do do my best to see that my advice is also always practical. And sweetie, it is always completely truthful.

It is true that you have to filter this through what may be aplicable to your particular situation. For instance, tweezing your brows slowly over several months is rarely noticed by others except as noting that you may look a little younger. Painting your nails scarlet will be noticed by EVRYONE. Few people notice my clear polished nails and those that do, know that many men use clear polish anyway. So you have to use a little common sense here.

When we more experienced CDers give advice, we are speaking from just that, experience. We have "been there, done that", and we got the T shirt too. Please let us give advice. We do know that most of this is just in your head because we were ALL there once ourselves and we have ALL been through the wringer of traumatic uncertainty and apprehension.

It's been my experience here that most other people are just too darned wrapped up in their own little world to care much about what we wear or how we present to society. If you present in a appropriate manner, most others will not even see you.

Now the exceptions to this are groups of teenagers and young males. Both of these groups have little or nothing better to do, and that's why they have time to not only notice you, but to annoy you as well.

Please use a bit of common sense here. Shaving your legs; no one will notice. Wearing makeup and painting your nails; others will notice, be prepared. Piercing your ears; people will notice, no one will care. Losing weight; people will notice, but it's always a good thing. Growing your hair long; no one will care. Put it in a pony tail and get on with your life.

Lovies,
Auntie Steph

[Deborah_UK]

Yes people do notice, but they don't immediately think "crossdresser" or "transsexual".

I have been having my back and chest waxed for years. I have shaved my legs for even longer. In the last 12 months I've started having the same person who does my chest and back to wax my eyebrows.

She never judged, never said anything.

When I told her about a month ago that I was TS the penny dropped - but until I put it out there she had no inkling.

So people might notice, but they rarely (if ever) say anything, and also rarely have a clue.

Just because we know about transgendered individuals and think about it a lot - the general population is too wrapped up in their own lives/worlds.

So if it feels good - do it!

[5inchHeels]

The advice I give here on this forum is well intentioned. Thank you. However, I do do my best to see that my advice is also always practical. And sweetie, it is always completely truthful.

Just to be clear, I wasn't directing my first posts towards anyone specific. It was just a trend I noticed in many posts.

Few people notice my clear polished nails and those that do, know that many men use clear polish anyway. So you have to use a little common sense here.

I don't want to get hung up on nail polish, but did you really say that many men use clear nail polish?

When we more experienced CDers give advice, we are speaking from just that, experience. We have "been there, done that", and we got the T shirt too. Please let us give advice. We do know that most of this is just in your head because we were ALL there once ourselves and we have ALL been through the wringer of traumatic uncertainty and apprehension.

This gets more to my point. You have conquered your fear of others perceptions. That does mean that you have changed the perception of others.

It's been my experience here that most other people are just too darned wrapped up in their own little world to care much about what we wear or how we present to society. If you present in a appropriate manner, most others will not even see you.

Please use a buit of common sense here. Shaving your legs; no one will notice. Wearing makeup and painting your nails; others will notice, be prepared. Piercing your ears; people will notice, no one will care. Losing weight; people will notice, but it's always a good thing. Growing your hair long; no one will care. Put it in a pony tail and get on with your life.

Lovies,
Auntie Steph

Or is that we are too wrapped up in our little world to see that others are noticing? I'm playing devil's advocate, but I do think it goes both ways.

If one goes out in public (public being anyone but yourself) and androgenizes or feminizes their appearance in any way, however small, they should be prepared that others may notice and react negatively. Given the number of threads on this board about negative crosddressing experiences it seems like that is often forgotten.

[bobi jean]

I did not read every one of the replys but my first thought to the thought was maybe we should install a note at the front of each thread sayin gthat the advise and or comments made within this site should not be considered without some very careful consideration and suggest that it should be used with a ton or two of COMMON SENSE.
JUST A THOUGHT
I have been crossdressing for over 30 years and found this site 2 weeks ago.
Where were ALL of you dear people then??
This site is loaded with a lot of good stuff. advice as well as just being able to sit back and read how much damn near every one of us is alike. I truely find it amazing
THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TxKimberly]

LOL You may have seen a number of my posts start off with something along the lines of "Oh goody, i get to be the heavy again". I use that line when I see people encouraging others to what I would consider risky or silly things. I have seen threads that I considered to be tantamount to "I'm going to go shoot myself in the head" followed by a slew of "Go for it", "You go Girl!", etc. I'm sure these people have the best of intentions, but sometimes I have to wonder . . .
Kim

[5inchHeels]

So people might notice, but they rarely (if ever) say anything, and also rarely have a clue.

I disagree. I think more people notice then you realize, however most (nearly all) choose not to vocalize those thoughts. If you understand that and it doesn't bother you then you're all set, but we shouldn't be oblivious to it.

So if it feels good - do it!

That is EXACTLY why I started the thread. I 100% disagree with that statement and that way of thinking. A crossdressers needs to step away from the instant gratification that dressing brings and look at the consequences (positive/negative/small/large) of their actions.

Deb -- I wasn't trying to call you out girl, just making a point from my perspective. (side note: there are some really ridiculous / funny smileys)

[Stephenie S]

Yes, I did say that many men wear clear nail polish. As a matter of fact, when I was growing up and getting my hair cut in a barber shop, a manicurist was ALWAYS in attendance to do your nails while you got your haircut. When I go to the mall to get my nails done (when I have a little extra money), no manicurist has ever raised an eyebrow at my request for clear polish. Perhaps this is more common among high powered, big city businessmen than someone who works with their hands. I do know that the only time I break a nail is when I am working on my truck or doing some carpentry.

As for the other comments, I will stand by what I said, "If you present in an appropriate manner, most people will not even see you". This is born out by the experiences of numerous others on this forum. High heels, micro minis, fishnets, and revealing tops get attention no matter WHAT sex the wearer is. Dress to blend in and most of the time you will. For those times that you don't, a big "sh*t eatin' grin" goes a long way to difuse any potential problems. Just take a look at some of Karren Hutton's photos to learn what that is. Karren goes where she wants and does what she wants dressed. And she has a good time doing it.

Lovies,
Steph

My comments about the "if it feels good, do it" quote are TRUE TRUE TRUE. IF you use common sense and good taste (and are prepared to take resposibility for your actions).

Listen up! This is the only life you have. When it's done you're done. Don't get to the end and have to say, "Gee, I wish I had only . . . " I see bitter disapointed patients on a daily basis who thought they would get more out of life. And not to leave the religious types out; do you think that you will be met at the Pearly Gates with a new pair of stockings and heels?

[KatieZ]

perceptions of others

What others?
Total strangers...Who cares. If they get nosey I ask "who the hell are you and what bizness is it of yours".
Friends....If they are truely friends they don't care or judge.
Family....Well that is a tricky one sometimes, but remember they love you no matter what (most of the time).
Boss/co-workers...If it may affect your employment best to stay low key or find another job.
Rednecks....Carry some mace in your purse.

[Joy Carter]

What others?
.
Rednecks....Carry some mace in your purse.

Woopsie another label is being used here.

[Deborah_UK]

5inchheels-

no problem sis,

I can only go on my experience, and to say that my beauty therapist was amazed when I told her that I was TS despite all the clues over the past year or so would be an understatement.

I do feel we get so wrapped up in ourselves that we feel that there is a sign above our heads with an arrow pointing down at us saying "this person shaves their legs, wears nail polish, waxes their eyebrows, has pierced ears (my next experience btw) so this person is a crossdresser/is transgendered"

Well if the sign is there, none of my aquaintances, friends or family have actually noticed the sign until I told them it was there.

But that is only my experience and I accept that others may have different experiences.