Staying out of the Box

[Lovely Rita]

I read so many threads regarding classifications of who we are. Many contributors do not seem to feel that the various categories adequately describe who they are.

I am a CD and ok with CD and any other term people use to sort of define who we are. We are such a varied group and I know that these acronyms are just general terms that probably express some of the commonalities at our core.

I categorize myself as CD because I do love to dress in woman's attire, but I always shy away from being pigeon holed by any form of labeling.

These acronyms are fine as long as we can stay out of the box. We are so much more than what these categories seem to describe. We are all so very different. It is wonderful to read how rich and diverse a group we are.

I write this because I read a thread today written by some one who did not quite feel like they fit into any category. They had some of this and some of that but not quite what the various categories seemed to define.

Staying out of the box is realizing that I have things in common with everyone here but I am also an individual who is very different from anyone else. Just like everyone of you are different from everyone else. This is a a very good thing and I celebrate that.

So many times in life acceptance is based on fitting into the box and so, at leaste for me, I have removed acceptance for myself from complying with anyones idea of what the prerequisites are for fitting into any particular box.

Society has one huge and general box. It is also has its rules for what it means to fit into that box and I reject it.

Living and thinking in the box can hurt us. Out there people who are different are sometimes feared and even hated for their difference in colors, races, religions, sexual preferences. In here we need to embrace, love and support our diversity. In here we need to be the givers of love many of us have been missing out there.

Like the French would say "VIVE LA DIFFERENCE"

Don't speak french so hopefully I did not just make a mistake and curse or something

[Marla S]

It's: Vive la difference .......... Viva is Spanish.

Well, I stated my opion about labels lately.

I do see the need of TG as umbrella term due to the sozial situation, but that's it.
TS, CD or Queer are help-constructs that sometimes help to sort some things out (often they don't), but actually all boils down to man, women, masculine and feminine.
A combination of those words represents the gender identity of everybody. No other labels are needed. Nobody want's to be CD or TS, but all want to become (or stay) man or woman and express their masculinity or femininity.

Everybody is different, and we can't have a label for everyone, except the name as a person identifier.

[prettywithsideburns]

It's: Vive la difference .......... Viva is Spanish.

who's to say this philosophy can't be extended to languages as well?

[Marla S]

who's to say this philosophy can't be extended to languages as well?

Of course
Spanish: Viva la diferencia
German: Es lebe der Unterschied.

My language skills are done now

[Sheri 4242]

A tattoo in French: "Dichotomie Feminine de Une." Basically, my twisted way of saying (and this isn't literal, just my way of indicating something), "I am one who is dichotomous, re part of me is feminine."

More literally it says, "Feminine Dichotomy of One." (Gender: feminine of course! )

[Jamie001]

Very well stated Lovely Rita. BTW, I love your avatar picture. Very pretty.

[Toyah]

Lables are meaningless if they are applied recklessly like that flaming TG thing, I really hate that one. There are many lables that are meaningless in this world I think we should stand for our indivuduality and not be lumped in together with everyone even if we strongly disagree. Thats the problem with polatics ,religion and to an extent here look at the posts we are all different. We have gay straight and bi, we have bible punchers and aithiests, we have guys who want to wear dresses and girls who prefere to be guys we have drinkers and tea total, Shrink lovers (hmmmm they are wierd ) and shrink haters (yup thats me ) we have gurls with no heads or beards, we dont have pantys .Yup we are a messed up all over the place forum who happen to get along just fine. Just dont call me bloody TG I hate it !!!!!!!!!!!

[Julogden]

Lables are meaningless if they are applied recklessly like that flaming TG thing, I really hate that one.

Hi Toyah,

I'm not challenging your opinion, rather I'm curious, why do you hate it, and why do you feel that it's being used in a reckless manner?

Just nosy.

Carol

[Kristen Kelly]

[SIZE="4"]I'm proud of my labels, Honest, Caring, Geninue, Trusting, Compasionate.[/SIZE]

[Brianna Lovely]

Always thought of myself as being out of the box.
Lables? We don't need no stinken lables. giggle

I was in Key West, a few years ago and noticed their City Logo, which seemed to be everywhere "One Human Family". It says a lot.

Warm hugs for everyone!

[chucks]

maybe i don't know what i am. if i am honest.

maybe i'm just going with what feels right.

[gmss]

Not trying to start any language translation arguments, but just for some mild clarification, the verb "to live" is translated as "vivir" in Spanish, yes, but also French.

I'm not a history major, but I'm quite certain that the expression "Vive la Différence" is in fact, from the French. Google backed me up on that one.

More on topic: I would certainly agree that we are "outside the box" which is a good thing. I think that as we go about our individual directions, I think tha "the box" becomes less and less meaningful, or even identifiable. In fact, I don't see much of a box at all to be honest. There's so much non-conformity already, it's becoming the norm.

Generally speaking, that's a good thing.

[Kate Simmons]

I'm always outside the bix Rita (too cramped in there with everyone trying to play some kind of "role"). I'm myself, plain and simple and fight to stay that way, especially after what I realized today. It ain't easy being "us" sometimes but there is a purpose and reason for it.

[Toyah]

Hi Toyah,

I'm not challenging your opinion, rather I'm curious, why do you hate it, and why do you feel that it's being used in a reckless manner?

Just nosy.

Carol

I hate TG because I am afraid it does not feel as though it applies to me but everyone thinks it should.
OK I dress but do not want to present myself to the world as female apart from on here and to the few on Yahoo I chat to, even then its not real I dont have fem feelings I just adore the clothes.
Am I between gender just because sometimes I dress up? I never go anywhere dressed apart from once to Sparkle probably not again and one walk definatly not again.
I dont see and dont need a fem persona Toyah is me maybe a bit louder but thats the disguise I think.
So fine if you want to present to the world your fem side, I am not knocking it just dont want to be included thats all

[Deanna2]

We all use labels of one sort or another. It is simple to put people, things, ideas etc in pigeon holes and then we don't have to make any more decisions about it. Unfortunately, in our haste to assign labels, we get some of them wrong. I personally like the label CD just because I like wearing femme gear, but there is not much I can do about it.

[Sharon]

I spent way too many years running and hiding from labels, but I refuse to do it anymore. I am transgendered, but there is so much more to me than just that one word.

[kerrianna]

Oh goody! I get to be the first to quote Popeye in this thread:



popeye-50yearsA.jpg

[TxKimberly]

Most everyone in this forum (except the SO's) is transgender - cross dresser, transexual, we all fall under the TG umbrella. It has always annoyed the snot out of me that even among ourselves we draw lines of inclusion and exclusion. Some look down on the TS, some on the CD, some look down on either that are "gay", some look down on either that AREN'T gay! How in the heck can we expect to get anything accomplished and get others to accept us when even WE keep drawing these stupid lines among ourselves.

[Sheri 4242]

I spent way too many years running and hiding from labels, but I refuse to do it anymore. I am transgendered, but there is so much more to me than just that one word.

Most everyone in this forum (except the SO's) is transgender - cross dresser, transexual, we all fall under the TG umbrella. It has always annoyed the snot out of me that even among ourselves we draw lines of inclusion and exclusion. Some look down on the TS, some on the CD, some look down on either that are "gay", some look down on either that AREN'T gay! How in the heck can we expect to get anything accomplished and get others to accept us when even WE keep drawing these stupid lines among ourselves.

(Emphasis added in Kim's quote!!!)

Sharon and Kim: you've said it all and I totally agree!!!!!!!

One small thing I'd like to add: while I understand why some don't like labels, their reasoning is so'ooo specious!!!!!!! IF we are all going to be "on the same page" in our discussions, we need basic concepts and general definitions -- that is how language works!!!

[Eileen]

Well said Kimberly! We are all individuals and we should all be accepted for who we are. We are asking others to accept us for who we are, yet we are all to often unwilling to accept those with interest similar to our own, when they do not fit our idea of CD, Trans or what ever we may see ourselves to be! Enjoy who we are and enjoy others for who they are and life will be so much more enjoyable.

Eileen

[Mitzi]

I'm with you, Kimberly..we all come to this forum because we're "trangendered", (or admirers). "Straight", "gay", somewhere in between...so what.

I have no problem putting myself in the crossdresser box, because that's what I do, dress in the attire of the opposite gender. Of course that doesn't define who I am, but it is one of my personnas.

On a lighter note, back in the 50's, I went to a bar (en drab, of course) featuring a female impersonator. During a break, I bought her a drink, and was all a twitter...actually meeting another, ummm, person who dressed... I told her I was also a "fairy"... She gasped, and told me not to call myself that... Back in those days, terms like crossdresser, transgendered didn't exist.

Mitzi

[Christine Davis]

Since I am originaly from the Big Easy, I must thow in my 2 french cents in... As we say "Laissez les bons temps rouler!" (Let the good times roll)

[Cai]

The labels are helpful sometimes (like when coming out to someone) but usually they just seem to cause more trouble than they're worth. I'm not a big fan of labels and boxes, because I think once you box someone you treat them differently - they're no longer just a person.
People in the transgendered spectrum are capable of just as much prejudice as anyone else. We just have to be more accepting, just like anyone else.

[Eileen]

Yes as Barbara says society uses labels for just about every thing. We need to learn not to be upset if we are labled, but to make sure others using these lables get to know and understand us for who we are. Then lables will become less restrictive!

Eileen

[N.J.]

I definitely do not believe in classifications. The labels offered by society to identify sexuality, CD, TV, TS, are starting points, a place for people to sort of come together and say, yeah… I’m kind of like that. Aside from a simple starting place I have no use for labels.

Universally sex and identity are extremely significant in culture. Perhaps because it is the first and most obvious thing we discover about ourselves. Even as children we know some people have girl parts and some people have boy parts. This is emphasized by adult role characters who assign behavioural qualities to sex. “Boys like trucks. Girls like dolls, etcetera.” Social behaviours are assigned to a simple anatomical difference, sex, and from this assignation we get gender.

The essentialist point of view is that there is an intrinsic difference between men and women. Something basic and animalistic that defies social constraints. John Gray basically covers the essentialist view in his book Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, which is basically over hyped drivel.

Another theory is that Gender is shaped by socialization. Basically men and women come off of the factory floor emotionally, mentally the same. The only difference between boys and girls is their bits and that is all. The theory states that our early life experiences and social influences shape our gender, that hormones and physicality only influence who we want to shag and the rest is constructed loosely around that.

The theory of biological determinism, which is similar to essentialism, relies on pure physiology, saying that the difference between men and women revolves purely around our bodies and the things our bodies do. Men are stronger than women, it says, and women bear children, so men and women are different.

So the question of gender comes down, in the scientific world, to one of nature or nurture. This oversimplified battle has been waged for decades. There are fallacies in each theory so we have to pick and choose and come up with something that works for us, a bit like labels no?

Judith Butler, who ought to win the ‘worst academic writing ever’ award, actually manages some theories that I am comfortable with, though she can take things a bit over the top. She says that there are differences physiologically between men and women, and men and men, and women and women. These differences, she says, influence sexuality and sex… basically who you want to shag. This first bit is very like the theory of socialization, however the remarkable thing she says is that there are as many genders as there are people in the world. She equates gender to a performance, and says that gender is an individual performing their sex in a way that is viable to them. It’s as if you are going out and saying, this is my version of man, or woman, or whatever and everybody does it differently based on what their sex means to them. I think butler has some good and quite liberal ideas on gender. If you can wade through a bit of questionable writing, I recommend picking up Undoing Gender, or Gender Trouble.

Another intriguing writer, Paul D. Slocumb, addresses the need for advancements in men’s rights to emotional health in, Hear Our Cry: boys in crisis. While leaps and bounds have been made in the rights of women over the last fifty years the role of men in our society is stuck very much in the Leave It To Beaver era. Not only is Slocumb’s book an interesting read with good case studies it also turns the reader onto other interesting authorities on the subject.

So… I got a bit academic there. Please don’t offer me up to the gods of the message board as a virgin sacrifice… because that sooooooooooo wouldn’t work. I’m a straight chick who likes boys in makeup and lingerie, what do I know about “normal” gender behaviour. Actually, I think all gender behaviour has got to be abnormal due to the fact that society’s basic gender roles are so one-dimensional.

So, yeah… Out of the box!

N.J.
GG