I dont pass.

[StaceySA]

Hi girls
I went out this weekend fully dressed with my wife, she said i looked good enough to pass as a real woman. We went to this club and after about an hour i was caught out and asked to leave. I did'nt even talk to anybody or do anything but they could clearly see that i am not a lady. I am very disappointed and heartbroken, because ive been dressing for about 20 years in secret and now it all fell apart. I dont want to go out in public anymore and i doubt that i will ever crossdress again.
Can you please tell me what to do or change so as to pass??

[CarrieAnneEvers]

Hi girls
I went out this weekend fully dressed with my wife, she said i looked good enough to pass as a real woman. We went to this club and after about an hour i was caught out and asked to leave. I did'nt even talk to anybody or do anything but they could clearly see that i am not a lady. I am very disappointed and heartbroken, because ive been dressing for about 20 years in secret and now it all fell apart. I dont want to go out in public anymore and i doubt that i will ever crossdress again.
Can you please tell me what to do or change so as to pass??

Quite often your posture or walk will be a dead giveaway. If you look just like Jessica Beihl (sp?) but walk like a man, people are gonna think you're a man. There is a woman named Denae Doyle in California who offers an excellent video on fem movement, walking, etc. I can (usually) pass now thanks to her (or at least have people unsure whether I'm a guy or not.) Main thing is keep your knees close together and stand tall and erect. A lot of t-girls slouch because they are self-conscious about being tall. If you see someone looking at you with a confused look, just smile and walk confidently by and don't be ashamed and you will be fine.

A gay bar is a good place to get your feet wet. I know most of us are not interested in gay men, but it is a relatively safe and accepting place to start. They won't kick you out, and a lot of times the bartender will call you sweetie. I still get a kick out of that.

[Country girl]

[SIZE=3]Your pic is abit far away, so it is hard to give a good critique if that's what you really want. Clothes will sometimes give you away. Are you dressing age appropriate? If you are 40 and are dreesing in an outfit that is befitting a 22 year old that will give you away. Likewise style. You can't dress in an outfit designed for someone who weighs 125lbs if you weigh 225. I hope I'm making sense here. If you want to pass as a woman, you have to dress according to age and size. It does make a difference. Even if you are going to a club. If you can post a pic that is a closer shot we can try and give better advice. Thanks and don't give up. Often times first outings don't turn out the way you hope or had imagined. Attitude and confidence go along way to presenting the final picture. Keep your chin up, you'll get there! CG GG[/SIZE]

[Holly]

Stacey you haven't given us much to go on. Your picture is a bit grainy. But one thing does stand out and that is how you are standing in the picture. Ladies have a different way of carrying themselves than guys... everything from the way that they walk to how they move their hands while talking to how they hold a cigarette. Take some time and study how a woman walks, sits, uses her hands, it's really quite interesting. Spend some time at the mall and just observe. Maybe your wife would be willing to give you some pointers as well. Most of all, don't let one experience take away your joy. Perhaps a more T-friendly venue would be helpful as well.

[tracigirl_tv]

Stacey, I know that "passing" is the ultimate goal for many of us....but not all of us. I like to go to a regular gathering of dressers in my area, many of whom (like me) couldn't pass on their best day, and don't really give a damn. We are comfortable with ourselves and enjoy the company of like-minded sisters, and don't spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about what ignorant people may think. The venue is t-girl friendly, with admirers of both sexes welcome. That makes it safe from the shameful treatment you received at the club.

I can't tell you what to do to pass (otherwise, I'd do it myself *smile* and there are lots of girls who will be giving you good advice on that), but if you feel like forgetting about dressing after this experience, then can I respectfully suggest changing your mind-set? It's not all about passing, it's all about enjoying yourself.

I hope that time will heal the way you felt that night, Stacey.

*huggggg*

[CarrieAnneEvers]

[SIZE=3]Your pic is abit far away, so it is hard to give a good critique if that's what you really want. Clothes will sometimes give you away. Are you dressing age appropriate? If you are 40 and are dreesing in an outfit that is befitting a 22 year old that will give you away. Likewise style. You can't dress in an outfit designed for someone who weighs 125lbs if you weigh 225. I hope I'm making sense here. If you want to pass as a woman, you have to dress according to age and size. It does make a difference. Even if you are going to a club. If you can post a pic that is a closer shot we can try and give better advice. Thanks and don't give up. Often times first outings don't turn out the way you hope or had imagined. Attitude and confidence go along way to presenting the final picture. Keep your chin up, you'll get there! CG GG[/SIZE]

Excellent advice, CG. Are you near San Antonio? There is (was?) a great drag bar there called the Saint. Gosh, I miss that place. They let me participate in an amateur drag show once. I was aweful, but I had fun. Your pic is GORGEOUS, dahling.

[SatinDoll00]

Hi girls
I went out this weekend fully dressed with my wife, she said i looked good enough to pass as a real woman. We went to this club and after about an hour i was caught out and asked to leave. I did'nt even talk to anybody or do anything but they could clearly see that i am not a lady. I am very disappointed and heartbroken, because ive been dressing for about 20 years in secret and now it all fell apart. I dont want to go out in public anymore and i doubt that i will ever crossdress again.
Can you please tell me what to do or change so as to pass??

They asked you to leave? Wow. What a bunch of narrow-minded assholes!

I cannot pass either. For me, I think it is more the way I dressed and my makeup. I am still learning too. I think you look good enough to pass from what I see in the pic, but then again, it is not a very clear pic. Voice and mannerisms give us away as well.

Morgan

[Kate Simmons]

All good advice. The main thing is to be yourself and don't have any unrealistic expectations. You will be fine Hon.

[Violetgray]

Tips on passing? Hmm.. Well, observations my girlfriend made:

1.) Shirt was too tight. Hugs the male aspects of your figure, drawing attention to your shoulders. She said it was too tight, and too short.

2.) She didn't like the wig, because it framed the masculine features.

3.) No apparent body shaping. No pads or strategic clothing to accentuate the hips. Also, a larger cup size would draw attention away from your shoulders.

4.) Tights that are too deep are a dead giveaway.

[KimberlyS]

Stacey, I will ditto what Country Girl said. And IMHO the younger more trendy looks are harder to pull off for a TG. You do look good from what I can see. But a bit more conservative would draw less attention and second looks from other.

IMHO, being out "Passing" is optional. I go for a more blending look. Forget the clubs and go main stream. Go out to eat. Go to a movie. Go shopping. Go to the mall. Take your wife out on a date for being so wonderful and going out with you.

Asking you to leave was very narrow minded on their part. Sounds like a snooty club and I would not ever go back to it.

[Darlene Dippy]

Stacey

I understand "I dont pass" as you mean it! I am not very qualified to offer the advise you ask for, others are.

I make this observation, If you were there one hour in after the way you were being treated then for me "You pass".


Darlene

[Daintre]

Hi Stacey, I can't add to what already has been said...BUT....think though my dear, you have been at this for a number of years, it is a part of you and to add you have a very supportive SO. I suggest you step back and take a deep breath and re read the information passed on to you. You had an unfortunate outing and it hurt, I understand, I really do, so chin up and let the ladies see some pictures of yourself so they can offer advice. My advice is to watch women's movements and poise as they are so different than men. Good luck my friend, and don't stop going out, you have made a huge step forward.

[Stephenie S]

Hi girls
I went out this weekend fully dressed with my wife, she said i looked good enough to pass as a real woman. We went to this club and after about an hour i was caught out and asked to leave. I did'nt even talk to anybody or do anything but they could clearly see that i am not a lady. I am very disappointed and heartbroken, because ive been dressing for about 20 years in secret and now it all fell apart. I dont want to go out in public anymore and i doubt that i will ever crossdress again.
Can you please tell me what to do or change so as to pass??

So you went out for the first time and you didn't pass. Well, what did you expect, hon. You are a guy. It takes much practice to get even close to "passing", and not many get it on the first try. For many, perhaps you included, you will never "pass". So what? I don't "pass", and I go everywhere I want whenever I want dressed just the way I want. You have to get the "blend in" thing down. Look around you and try to dress the same way. Many will say, "Well, I should be able to dress how I want", and I even said that in the previous sentence, but you have to dress to blend in. You gotta get to the point where you don't attract much attention. That's what I do. Because, dear, you ARE going to be read. Make no mistake about it, almost no one can fool all the people all the time. So you have to dress so as not to offend when you are read. Any hint at ****tiness will be unwelcome. Dress your age. Dress nice.

Movement: You are going to have to "swish" it up dear. This is pretty hard for most guys because you have spent your whole life denying anything like this. But ya gotta do it!! Hold your arms in to your body, swing them, hold your wrists out, palms forward. Take MUCH smaller steps, much more quickly. Relax your body, make it looser. In your picture you seem very rigid, which is normal for a guy. Women are looser. And here's a biggy, . . . SMILE. Look at Karren Hutton's pictures. That's what I mean. I call it a "s**t eatin' grin", and you need it. Women smile all the time. They smile at each other, they smile at men, and they smile to themselves. SMILE. This signals that you are having fun and are relaxed. Two things you want to convey when you are out and dressed. When you meet someone, SMILE. People usually smile back. Once someone has smiled at you, it's very hard for them to be mean.

OK, that's enough for now. Don't give up. There's LOTS of help here. Just ask.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[RobertaFermina]

Dear,

the problem is not whether you pass as a woman, it is whether they pass as human. You are out there to have fun and join in, and they "have to" single you out and divide you from everyone else.

People so fear-based are just a problem...nothing to do with you.

Having to "pass better" to correct "their behavior" is a bit much to ask of anyone. It is also a sick energy to be mixing with your pursuit of CD happiness.

I wouldn't give it much mind. Keep working on your presentation for your own pleasure and fun.


Be Well !

Roberta

[Stephenie S]

Dear Stacy,

OK, hon. I just looked carefully at the picture you posted and here come my comments:

Your top is too tight, and too short. Lower the neckline too. Maybe add some jewelry.

Your breasts are too big and too high. Maybe just lowering them would be OK.

Your skirt is too short and not nice enough for going out to a club.

Don't show any midriff. Too ****ty.

Wear lighter hose.

You have on dress shoes with a casual outfit.

Don't take any of this personally. "Passing", for most of us, is an art. It takes, like all art, work, and does not often come on the first try. Keep it up. The results are worth it.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[KirstyChibiMoon]

<giggles>
1st, who is grading this infamous "test"?
2nd, how do you study?
3rd, most CD's cant pass in a well lit enviroment... a) their adams apple is a dead give-a-way, cheek bone and facial hair.
4th, who cares?!?!? just go out and have fun!

[Kris]

Stacey,

Gosh, I am new.. so please have patience with my naive question but... can someone kick you out of a public place because you are dressed? I do live in Oregon, Portland to be exact and I can't imagine anyone doing something so rude and un-politically correct. Yeah, I know it's done, I have no doubt but they are idiots and have closed minds and I would venture to guess that this isn't the place to hang out anyway.

I have no suggestions for you but wanted to add my and to tell you how incredibly sorry I am for someones ignorance. You have my empathy and I truly am sorry.

I also read other things on this list and I wonder how many people think I am a man! LMAO! I am SO ungraceful, and have always been a tomboy... so there aren't many feminine things about me. However I am four feet, eleven inches tall... I am a shrimp.

Kris GG

[Sophie Haworth]

I know exactly how you feel, awful. To be asked to leave is sad.

There are so many factors and it really does take years of practice.

I have been dressing for many more years, and it is only the last 4 that I have been able to go out and pass, I have a few threads and pics.

The problem was for me, I believed what I saw in the mirror, and it just was not a true image.

I have changed hairstyles, my walk, the way I hold myself, I hide my legs they are a giveaway unfortunately, but I like trousers anyway.

I have said this before, one of the best ways to see how you look is to video yourself and then you will see things you have never noticed in a mirror. And you will spot things that you need to change.

Maybe if you had been trying to pass for 20 years and failed regularly, it would be time to think again, but for your first time out, I would keep practicing, that is fun anyway.

Sophie.

[Priscilla Ann]

I am more interested in why you were asked to leave. What kind of club was it? What was the dress code? When they asked you to leave did they give you an explanation as to why? Was there not someone at the door that let you in in the first place?

[StaceySA]

Thanks for all the advice. Ok let me explain...
First of the pic i posted is not the way i was dressed when i went out i had a long skirt up to my ankles, but almost the same kind of top.

There is two levels at this club when we went in we walked straight to the top level where there is not that much people. We hanged around there, had a couple of drinks and eventually went to the ladiesroom. Me and my wife went into one laterine together and when i was finished she went to sit on the toilet when we heard male voices in the room. They threw water and colddrink over the top of the stall and eventually one ASSHOLE forced the door open while my wife was sitting on the toilet!!! That is when he told us to leave.
LOL, i think they are the sissy's afterall because when we walked out all the guys was standing outside the ladies room "waiting for the fag" but not even one of them tried anything,lol, when im not stacey im quite capable of defending myself so i actually hoped one of them tried something so that i could get rid of my frustration and embarresment on him.
We are thinking of going back to that club (but me as my "male" self so that i can confront the guy that invaded my wives privacy).
Well it is over now and honestly i dont think ill have the guts to go out in public again, and even if i will ever dress again. Time will tell though and if i decide to dress again in future i will make use of all the advice ive been given here.

Thank you.

[Sasha Anne Meadows]

I agree with some of the comments about most girls really not passing. But that is not the issue. We have a right to be out in publis just like anyone else. Whoever asked you to leave the club was not only being grossly insesitive but just asking for a law suit.

There have been a number of cases where business have been sued for discrimination against t customers. Usually they are settled out of court. But there is certainly an arguement that your First Amendment rights were violated. I know litigation is always unpleasant but if more of us who take jerks like this to court the more educated business owners will become. Business people hate to be sued and the few that act this way need a wakeup call.

Hugs

Sasha Anne

[SatinDoll00]

I cannot believe that!! It makes me soooo mad!

I had a recent experience in which I was called out, but not like that! Goodness gurl, I didn't cause trouble when I was treated rudely, but I would have whooped a couple of asses if they had done that to me! Let me tell you, I am a brown belt in karate, and I would bet that getting kicked with a 4 inch heel would not feel so good!

Make sure you thank your wife for putting up with that, and then you go and find your girliest outfit, put it on, and get right back on the horse...um, so to speak.

Kudos to you for going out, and don't let them get to you...not everyone in the world is like that...thank goddess!!

Morgan

[StephanieH]

[SIZE="3"]Off the top, your stance is a lot like a guy trying to look like a lady of ill repute. I think stance, posture, the way you walk, the way you sit, things like that, will give you away a lot faster than clothing. The photo is poor, but from what I can see, the makeup looks too heavy, the clothes just seem kinda' jumbled, and you're standing like a guy trying to be a girl.

Don't give up, you'll only make yourself miserable. Please take this as constructive criticism, not just criticism. I'm hardly perfect myself and I've yet to go out in public fully dressed, maybe someday! Keep trying, but remember, err on the side of caution. A more conservative look is going to attract a lot less attention and a lot less criticism.

Take care and have fun! This gives you an excuse to do more study![/SIZE]

[jannette]

Hey girl, passing is also a state of mind and depending on where you live it can be tough to find places that are
"accepting". Don't let this discourage you. One bad experience does not a T girls make so to speak. To be on the safe side in the future go to places that you KNOW are T accepting. Alternative lifestyle clubs, yes and even gay/lesbian bars. Find and communicate with some other girls in your area. They will know where and where not to go.

I don't consider myself overly passable but moderately so.
Hence, I don't let that hinder me but do still go out but with other girls and to places in our area that we know are accepting to who we are. Jannette in Utica

[Joyce1702]

I suspect now it was more your behavior than your appearance that caused the problem. Obviously things were ok when you were sitting there having drinks. The problem arose when you and your wife shared a stall in the ladies room. That is not normal behavior. Women go to the ladies room together, but don't share a stall. I would suspect someone reported that you were having sex in the rest room and that's why they acted the way they did.

I'm not defending their actions, they most certainly could have handled things much differently.