GG seeking help and advice!

[Marcie Sexton]

Patience, patience, patience...if nothing else use Job as a role model...I know my wife had a really hard time understanding, first she thought there was the other woman, then she thought I would end up a woman, but alsa I only dress...after some really long talks, lots of tears and a great deal of understanding from her we came to an understanding...

She has been a supporter since then, not only for me but also for the equal rights of everyone...no matter who. She is my makeup artis, photographer, but most of all she is my wife and my lover...

Above all there must be total truth and honesty between the two of you...

Hope this helps, Good Luck...

[Dita_B]

I don't mind the occasional dressing if it is what makes him feel good, but I'm afraid it could lead to a constant need for him, and I'm not sure I can live with that.

IMHO I think this is where the core of the problem is.

You will have to come to terms with whether or not you can live with it. Only you can make that decision and weigh it against what is at stake, such as your marriage. Period.

Consider though that it has to do with stereotyping and conditioning. A woman seeks a male, because she wants that male influence in her life. And a certain (stereotype) expectation that comes with it. And when the rug is pulled from under that expectation, because that male that she seeks, now all of a sudden expresses as a female, causes great confusion...

But don't forget where this confusion comes from. It comes from inside of you, as a result of your conditioning and the stereotyping of the male image in the world at large. Your husband is exploring his female side... and so what? He is still the guy you fell in love with and married. The only difference is that he is pushing your (conditioned) boundaries by presenting a female image. If you consider giving up your marriage because you can't come to terms with that, nobody can help you but yourself...

For what concerns the dressing? I speak for myself when I say that I LOVE women. I love women so much that I want to express myself as one. I love the image of the woman in the mirror much more than my male image. When my female self discovered the potentials of the immense arsenal of attributes a woman has at her disposal to express herself (and to seduce the men in her life) and compared that to the utilitarian nature of that what is at the man's disposal, I discovered a whole new and very exciting world that I eagerly wanted to explore. Nothing could stop me from doing that.

The rest is all history. Once underway, I pushed my boundaries in this new field on my way to perfection, as I do with everything I undertake, may it be work related or cross dressing. So now I am working at the ultimate stage: passing as a woman in public. And it gives me a mighty thrill as I do that. A same kind of thrill as landing a huge contract, but with a twist. Because there is something sexual involved in cross dressing that gives it an extra dimension. Sexual, because one crosses the sexes, not because I want to attract male sexual attention... Hell NO. My focus when out dressed is still very male and I still notice and scan every pretty female I encounter.

So in resume, once I tasted cross dressing I was hooked and it will never go away. If my wife would insist I stop it, I would find other ways, because I firmly believe that I have the right to express myself in the way I want to. Luckily she agrees with that. And if the situation would be reversed and she would like to express herself as man, I wouldn't have any problem with that.

Dita.

[Sally24]

Crossdressing can be just a sexual thing. In many cases, if not most, it is a gender thing. Depending on which it is for him will determine if things change, increase or not. If he isn't ito the whole make-up, wig, name and the full package than he may not be interested in taking it any further than where he is now. If he won't talk about it then it would be really difficult for you to determine what he needs from this.

[TxKimberly]

Hello Laney!
Well, as with anything else in life, there is no "one size fits all" with your questions. What is true for me may not be true for your hubby, but there are some generalities that are true for the majority of us.
Most of us ARE just into it part time. The majority of our lives are spent doing the job, husband, father thing just like any other guy. With the vast majority, you do not need to worry about him some day deciding he is going to go full time or more.
Now as to the "why" - that's the $64,000 question. If you can answer that one CD's and PHD's around the world will be singing your praises and erecting statues in your honor. Again with the disclaimer that what is true for one (me)does not mean its true for all, I can tell you a little of how I feel. From a very early age (Somewhere between 4 and 6 I think) I have felt the urge. I wanted to wear the pretty dresses, I wanted the ribbons and bows, I wanted the pretty hair. Most of my life I have felt ugly and unattractive, but when I do the Kim thing, for just a moment I feel pretty, I feel beautiful. For just those few hours I get to be the butterfly instead of the worm. In many ways a lot of us aren't so different from your average woman. Just as you may, we look at a beautiful dress, shoes, sparklies and we want to have them for the same reasons - they are beautiful and we will be or feel beautiful with them.
It's not an answer to your questions, but it is the best I can do to try and give you some small bit of insight into it.
Best wishes!

[kassandra richard]

For me it's a strong urge, likely because the thing that is supposed to bring a man fulfillment -- his job -- is depressing to me. I know that when I was very busy in my job (in another company) the urge to dress wasn't really there although it hit a couple of times. Since I was let go in 2003 it's something that has built and now Kassandra has popped up So, for me, it seems to be a way to combat stress in an unfulfilled existence.

Now, this doesn't mean that my life as a guy is unfulfilled outside of work. With a wife, two kids, and a busy life in church roles (okay, that's another discussion altogether ) I have reason to be happy, but the dressing seems to compensate for something else.

As for frequency, sure I'd probably like to dress more often, but owing to family life and other things, it's only a few times a month, and in varying states of completeness.

The sexual part of things is becoming (maybe already is) a non-issue. I'm hetero so I'm not looking to attract guys. If there is arousal it's from looking in the mirror and figuring that I'm not half bad

Kassandra

[sherri]

I'm afraid it could lead to a constant need for him, and I'm not sure I can live with that. His drives come and go and he says that he doesn't have, or care to have, an en femme name. Are there MTF's out there who are satisified with the occasional "dressing session"?

I'm curious as to how long your husband has been dressing? If he is fairly new at it, it is possible that he is as yet unaware of how far his desire may lead him. I think the evidence is pretty clear that for most, crossdressing is progressive, and for some, it can be compulsive. But before you let those factoids alarm you, let me hasten to add that most of us are perfectly capable of maintaining some sort of balance in our lives, especially when loved ones are involved.

Several people have replied in this thread that it is important to them to continue their "guy" lives, and I believe them. Your husband may well be one of them. Others, like me, would love to live full-time in some sort of fem mode (and yes, that has been a progressive process), but circumstances prevent that possibility. Why? Usually it's because loved ones and work are too important to us to see them compromised or damaged. You can and should take heart in that fact.

Another thing I'd like to point out to you is that your husband's dressing may or may not be limited to clothes and appearance. Maybe it's just an outlet or fetish for him, but it might also reflect a degree of femininity in his personality and character. If you're the kind of woman that likes her man to be "all man", that possibility might be alarming, but I would strongly urge you to consider that this side of him can be very rewarding for both of you. You might actually like that side of him if you give it a chance.

Also, don't make the mistake of letting his dressing make you feel inadequate in some way. That is way off base. Trust me, your husband loves you and your femininity. In a way, his dressing is an indication of just how much he empathizes and identifies with you. Consider it as a form of flattery, not rejection.

Finally, I would like to direct your attention to the role models here on the forum that might make you feel better about this whole thing. There are many wonderful gurls here that I'm sure can help, but I don't know most of them very well. I can tell you that one in particular -- Holly -- strikes me as someone who is in a very loving relationship, has been successful in life, and has been able to balance her dressing with the rest of life to a remarkable degree. It can be done, and it can be rewarding for both of you.

[Daphne Renee]

Also, don't make the mistake of letting his dressing make you feel inadequate in some way. That is way off base. Trust me, your husband loves you and your femininity. In a way, his dressing is an indication of just how much he empathizes and identifies with you. Consider it as a form of flattery, not rejection.

I agree with this 100%. His dressing does not mean your inadequate in any way shape or form. I cant speak for all cd'ers but ,I would say most of us are doing just as sherri said. Its more of a way to identify with our feminine side than anything else. Will he want to dress more and possibly transition? Only he can answer that for sure. I would say though while anything is possible its not likely to happen.
I dress only occasionally . Would I like to dress a little more often? sure but not all the time. Like other have said its best to talk to him about this and of course keep an open mind while your doing it. One last thing, you do want to have boundaries but stay away from saying things like "you cant do this or that". He is over 18 and you would not like to hear him say things like that to you.
Be careful with your words .. you can say things like " I would like it if you didn't do this or I would prefer it if you didnt.....

[Laney GG]

I'll try to give a little more background about my situation. My husband has had these feelings since a child. He's tried dealing with it and even denying it, trying whatever he could to make it go away. Of course, it never did. There was a time, his college years, where he didn't seem to have the "urges", however, he was extremely busy. He was treated for a mild form of depression during that time, and looking back on it now, he believes repressing his CD'ing urges caused this. Yes, he is a more "gentle" type of guy. He definitely has a more "caring" way about him than I guess the "typical male" may be willing to express, but I never would have expected anything like this to come up. He's also a good listener and likes my cats! I figured it was because of his rough childhood--socially. He was that skinny, little kid that was always picked on and bullied during most of his school years. His family life was good--nothing out of the norm. He is still "soul searching". He doesn't feel the need to dress all the time nor go out in public. He, at this time, has absolutely no desire to become a woman. It's just that we have read where there have been CD's who feel content with dressing once in a while, however, years later have a change of heart and feel they need to transition. This scares the bejeebers out of both of us!! As far as seeing pics of him, well, they wouldn't be very flattering given he has a goatee and fairly thick eyebrows. He currently has everything God gave him and seems fairly content with it, except when he's en femme. At this time, it would look suspicious if he suddenly shaves his fairly hairy body and trims the brows. The goatee can go and the brow trimming would be OK to me, but I don't know if I can take the leg/arm shaving thing yet/ever. Sorry this is so wordy, but I thought I'd try to sum everything up as best as I can.

[valery]

Hi Laney,

first of all a big welcome and respect for joining this forum taking the courage to help and fight for your relationship.

So, that means clearly that you're really in big love and we'll all try to help you as good as we can.
You're in the right place and you did the first proper step to get familiar with all this and to find out that you're not alone - far from it.

Are there MTF's out there who are satisified with the occasional "dressing session"?

Yes, here is one of them, but ...

It's just that we have read where there have been CD's who feel content with dressing once in a while, however, years later have a change of heart and feel they need to transition.

... you'll never have a security, even if your partner wouldn't be a CD today, he could change into a CD tomorrow. I can't even say if a therapist would be able to give future prospects about your sitiuation, but maybe you should give it a try as you're both so disturbed.

I figured it was because of his rough childhood--socially. He was that skinny, little kid that was always picked on and bullied during most of his school years. His family life was good--nothing out of the norm.

This could be possible, but there is no scientific background for those attempts to define explanations or classifications. Many people try to find all the answers and to rate the different appearances, usually by asking the wrong questions. There was a thread on this forum, where somebody tried that with the claim to put us into valued levels - really scaring.
There are many theories about the psychological how, when and why of fetishism, but only few facts.
As example - one of the biggest questions in science about gay-people was: 'genes'? What they know after lots of years today is, that there is no gay-gene - what they're still uncertain about is if genes have an effect on being/becoming gay and how this might work. So for me that's not very much and I think when they'll know I'll allready be six feet under and it will be no big deal, as nobody will ever be able to define this sweet little word "normal" as we stopped beeing normal early in the beginning - otherwise we would be out of date and history allready and some microbes would rule this world.

So at the moment international scientific, psychologists and medics represent the opinion that most of the sexual orientations popularly called fetishism are regarded normal variations of human sexuality. Even those orientations that are potential forms of fetishism are usually considered unobjectionable as long as all involved persons feel comfortable.

He doesn't feel the need to dress all the time nor go out in public. He, at this time, has absolutely no desire to become a woman.

That might be a form of transvestic fetishism, which means it's about the clothes and not the wish to change gender. I say "might" because I'm not an expert. Another close idea could be what's called autogynephilia (it's me, belongs to me), which means "love of oneself as a woman" - we all have both gender.

The goatee can go and the brow trimming would be OK to me, but I don't know if I can take the leg/arm shaving thing yet/ever. Sorry this is so wordy, but I thought I'd try to sum everything up as best as I can.

I'm sure you'll work it out, as you're already talking to each other and "hair" - that's not the basic element of your problems. Keep on asking this forum, the people here can give a lot of tips and help.

So far about theories and things written down by experts, hope it'll be of some help - but the most important thing for you and your darling is to keep on going and to talk and if things are to complicated please go and get help by a therapist or helpline and don't give up.

love take care

here is some info for your help:
http://www.mirrorpedia.com/wiki/Sexual_fetish
http://www.mirrorpedia.com/wiki/Fetishism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autogynephilia
http://www.mirrorpedia.com/wiki/Transgender

[Sheri 4242]

Let me add something to what I said yesterday. I'm convincenced that most of us know where we fall on a gender spectrum. Likewise, I'm certain that there are some who crossdress who are really and truly conflicted about their gender identity versus their anatomic sex. There are some who crossdress -- and try to live as a heterosexual mtf crossdresser -- who later find that they are transsexual. This is just like there are those who are gay or lesbian who try to live as if they weren't -- even get married, have children, etc. Many know, above and beyond all doubt, where they fit on the spectrum. Many (most?) transsexuals know how they feel. Many (most?) mtf heterosexual crossdressers know for certain they are heterosexual.

What gives me pause is where you say:

IHe is still "soul searching". He doesn't feel the need to dress all the time nor go out in public. He, at this time, has absolutely no desire to become a woman. It's just that we have read where there have been CD's who feel content with dressing once in a while, however, years later have a change of heart and feel they need to transition. This scares the bejeebers out of both of us!!

While my opinion is that your husband is a heterosexual mtf crossdresser, if there is any question, doubt, or confusion, it would be in the best interest of you both to search out a qualified therapist who specializes in gender issues!!! IMHO, I think you both could benefit greatly from asssistance by someone highly trained in this area!!!

I don't know if I can take the leg/arm shaving thing yet/ever.

This area is a stumbling block for a lot of people. What I don't understand is "why" it is a problem?!! After all, do you know how many athletes and coaches regularly shave their legs, arms, pits, etc?!!! If your husband was a college football coach who shaved his legs when two-a-days started, you wouldn't think a think about it b/c it is so common.

[Satrana]

Laney

Your summary of his childhood is very typical of many of us. Often there really is nothing we can point to to explain why we crossdress except to say that at some point usually during our childhood we recognized the feminine part of ourselves, something which all men have. However while other men succumbed to male conditioning and had all traces of their feminine side eradicated through fear and bullying, we only pretended to go along with the male conditioning and hung onto our feminine side safely hidden away in our private closets.

In essence CDs are normal men who did not conform completely to male conditioning. The problem is that our "hobby" is taboo and we have experienced our feminine moments only in brief episodes of fantasy play when no-one else is around. This means our feminine side has never had the opportunity to be normalized in a social way which is why it can come across as somewhat weird and self-obsessed at times. This can be re-addressed by allowing your partner relative freedom to experiment and find his own balance. After a while the fantasy thoughts will subside and a more mature and sensible appreciation of femininity will emerge.

It really is not something that you should be afraid about, it is something that should really be celebrated as your partner is a more complete, well rounded man for the simple reason that he is not scared of expressing femininity, he does not see women as the enemy, he does not need to dominate and abuse women. Many of the problems women have with men in general result from the fact that men have had their feminine side lobotomized which leaves them unbalanced and lacking interpersonal skills. CDs identify and empathize with women whereas "normal" men feel a need to debase women to support their masculine egos.

As others have said, the problem you face is overcoming your own conditioning of what you think men are and how they should behave, what your expectations of a male partner are. If you cannot alter your concepts of manhood then there will be an ever present tension between you as you are rejecting part of who he is.

On the hair shaving, if your partner had another genuine reason to shave his hair, would you not just shrug your shoulders and carry on? It is only a big deal because you know why he wants to shave. The problem is not the shaving of the hair, it is your negative feelings towards him expressing femininity. You need to think to yourself why you are ok with him shaving off the goatee but not the body hair and ponder if this is really rational and whether you feel ok placing such conditions on him. Would you feel ok having to get his consent every time you altered your appearance by getting a new hairstyle/coloring for example? This is his hair and his decision. Do you think you may actually like his body clean shaven if you gave it a chance?

[valery]

It really is not something that you should be afraid about, it is something that should really be celebrated as your partner is a more complete, well rounded man for the simple reason that he is not scared of expressing femininity, he does not see women as the enemy, he does not need to dominate and abuse women. Many of the problems women have with men in general result from the fact that men have had their feminine side lobotomized which leaves them unbalanced and lacking interpersonal skills. CDs identify and empathize with women whereas "normal" men feel a need to debase women to support their masculine egos.

cool, great mind, love you for that

[Khriss]

... would have been better if "She" was up-front with You to start !?
Your tolerance is the key ..perhaps ? now and ...? xx"K"

[kittypw GG]

This area is a stumbling block for a lot of people. What I don't understand is "why" it is a problem?!! After all, do you know how many athletes and coaches regularly shave their legs, arms, pits, etc?!!! If your husband was a college football coach who shaved his legs when two-a-days started, you wouldn't think a think about it b/c it is so common.

Sheri,
With all due respect, you would understand if you were attracted to men with all of their muscles and hair. I think a lot of women find, at least the chest and belly hair, very sexy. Shaving is also an obvious sign that things are not the same as before. It becomes a permanate body alteration and changes the male immage. It is different when one shaves because of a sport than if they are shaving to be more feminine. I have said before that the more femanine my hubby looks the less I am physically attracted to him. This is a natural thing being that I am a heterosexual genetic female.

On the flip side of the coin, I really don't understand why a cd man would have to shave his legs to feel feminine? Wig, makeup, undergarments, nylons etc should do it. Especially if the cd is being truthful about not being a transexual and the male presentation is the predominate expression. I want my man to be into presenting as nice of a male as he would the female. Mind you I understand the desire to shave but I don't understand the need. Kitty

[Lora Olivia]

As Sheri so aptly stated "3.) And, realize that much of what caused you to fall in love with your husband may be directly related to his being a CDer." For us I know this to be true and I believe that Lisa gg is as well. The tender, communicative, emotional "man" that she married was in a large part..me, even though none of us realized the total extent of it at the time. Well thats my

[kerensa]

Hi Laney

I have been cding for about the last 30 years or so, but have always told any partner i have had what i am right from the start with mixed reactions, some have tolerated it some have accepted it and others just couldnt handle it. I have tried so hard to be a normal male and when i have failed i have got so depressed, at one point i took an overdose and tried to end it all. I dont know why i am the way i am but as i have got older i have taken a more i dont care less attitued, its my life and i will live it how i choose.
I have a really supportive wife and she just says its the cd part of me which makes me who i am- the person she fell in love with.

[Rachel Morley]

...you would understand if you were attracted to men with all of their muscles and hair. I think a lot of women find, at least the chest and belly hair, very sexy.

Kitty makes an interesting point here. I didn't really "get" this until a few years ago. I've always hated my body hair because it made feel more manly and so would remove it. One of my platonic girlfriends at the time used to always tell me I shouldn't do it if I was looking for relationship with someone like her. I asked her to explain, and she said that she loved people like Tom Selleck because the masses of black hair all over his chest and abdomen made her go weak at the knees. She said "I'm a heterosexual woman .... I'm attracted to masculine men". Now of course, she was speaking for herself and there are degrees of masculinity and each person can differ but it was the fundamentals of what makes one person attracted to another that hit me. When you get down to it, it's animal attraction. What's one person's meat is another person's poison.

[Dixie Darling]

Laney,

A lot of the concerns you've indicated are pretty much common to most crossdresser's wives. It's very possible that some of you might find some of the answers to your many questions on my web site. In fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea for you and your husband to look at the material together and discuss it as you read it. It's a CLEAN site so there's nothing there that would be an embarrassment to you or to your husband and by discussing it as you read, you can both get a clearer picture about where you are and where things are going.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[Laney GG]

Because I want a happy husband and happy marriage, I'm really trying to understand what he's going through. The first time I found out about this I made him get rid of everything. I was angry and confused and didn't want to be a part of it. So I then went through a period of denial--hey it makes the pain go away, right?! Well, it did for a period of time, but eventually I found out that he had started up his "collection" again and that's when I realized that I need to get an understanding of this or get out. Well, I'm not one to give up so easily, especially since every other part of our relationship is good. So we started talking again and we're working through it. He said that he just can't help it--it's something that he can't always control and needs this outlet. I didn't make him get rid of his newest collection this time. He's been in counseling since I first found out--about 1 1/2 yrs ago. Unfortuantely, this therapist has absolutely no experience or knowledge of this issue and it seems as if she was trying to make my husband a "project". Her idea of therapy is get on the internet and research--she couldn't give us any websites or books or any direction. We found several books which seemed quite useful--at least for those early in their plight: My Husband Betty, My Husband Wears My Clothes, Coping with Crossdressing and Trueselves(I haven't read it yet, but he has). She once encourgaed him to go en femme out in public while at an out of town work training session. My husband admitted he has absolutely no experience in the make up and trying to make himself appear more feminine. She gave him some "make up tips" and told him to go for it. Well, he did--just went to a gas station and was incredibly scared and nervous. This was about 6 mos ago. I went to a counseling session with him recently and I have to say she has no right giving any make up experience--she is very drab looking with no make up on at all--so I could only imagine that conversation. At his last session, she was all about him going out to NY or LA for a couple weeks--just dress en femme f/t and see how it feels (she feels people are more open minded in bigger cities). She would "hook him up" with someone out there who could help him pass. He kept trying to tell her to stop, she's going way too fast, but she kept saying how great it would be for him! Mind you the only other person she's counseling is a 4 year old child! That's when we really buckled down and found another therapist who has experience with gender issues. My husband had his first session and already feels better about it. I'm seeing one of his doc's partners because I really need an outlet too. It's not like I can go to one of my best friends or sister to talk to about this! It's still hard enough for me to grasp, let alone trusting someone else to keep this secret while you talk about it. So I definitely agree with TRY to find a therapist with some experience or knowledge!! As far as the hair comment, my husband has a lot of dark colored hair and is not involved in sports or on chemo, so it would be difficult for him to make up an excuse to friends or family who ask. I know some of you out there say "it's just hair", but it truely is more than than that. Plus he's not willing to draw any negative attention to himself--he had enough of that in school and doesn't want to go back down a similar path again.

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Laney

You have a lot to deal with at the moment.
This therapist has no experience of tg issues as it relates to a couple
It seems as if she is not seeing the complete picture she needs to understand you are a part of a marriage which she seems not to have considered given what you have said.

I am glad you have found someone new for the counselling

I do hope you will allow us to provide the support you need
Its not an easy thing to deal with when so much is going on
You both are finding how difficult an issue it can be but its not imposible to slove

I wish you both the best of luck in getting through this

[Laney GG]

Thanks, Shelly. I am grateful for this forum. You all have been giving me a lot of insight and I believe learning from those who are living and dealing with this is one of the best forms of therapy. I am glad for the support! :thumbsup

[noname]

Nice therapist. Ok for real though. Anyone will take your money and talk to you. Ever heard the term, you get what you pay for? As a teen my family went through several counsilors and what not. The only one that was worth anything and made a difference was the guy who has a masters degree and charged 225 an hour. I recommend finding a therapist who specializes with these issues and has a masters at the minimim. Yes it will be expensive but it's better than spending half as much on sessions that do not produce results. Besides, wouldn't it be great to find someone who could get to the heart of the matter rather than tell him to take a vacation as a girl?

[Laney GG]

Yeah, tell me about it! She seemed a bit wishy washy at the beginning, but we figured she's the professional so we'll see where this leads. All she kept wanting to do was return to his childhood--I think she was trying to play Freud or something. She didn't usually seem interested in the here and now. But at his last session when she kept advising that he go to a larger city, his bells and whistles went off. He tried to tell her to stop, but she kept going on about it. When he asked her about her experience, she said that she was couselling him and a 4 yr old child. That's when we knew it was time to move on. It's been difficult for us to find a therapist who specializes in gender issues in our area, but we finally found someone. I hope he will help guide us in what will be our best interest.

[Sheri 4242]

Anyone will take your money and talk to you. Ever heard the term, you get what you pay for? As a teen my family went through several counsilors and what not. The only one that was worth anything and made a difference was the guy who has a masters degree and charged 225 an hour. I recommend finding a therapist who specializes with these issues and has a masters at the minimim. Yes it will be expensive but it's better than spending half as much on sessions that do not produce results. Besides, wouldn't it be great to find someone who could get to the heart of the matter rather than tell him to take a vacation as a girl?

As I suggested several posts back, Laney and her SO need a qualified counselor -- IOW, one HIGHLY qualified in gender issues. With regard to what "Noname" is saying, I agree in part and disagree in part. I absolutely agree that "you get what you pay for," and that in obtaining the services of a qualified in-field counselor, you should be willing to pay whatever is necessary!!! That said, the level of education shouldn't be the determining factor. I have earned several advanced degrees, and I can tell you that more important than the degree is the "sense and sensibility" one applies to their field. I've known more than a few PhD's who were "dumber than dirt." They make you wonder if they didn't get their degrees from a defunct "five and dime." Yet, I've seen licensed therapists on the bachelor's level who could run circles around many of those "oh so highly educated" PhD's. If you have ever wondered why some say PhD means "Pile it Higher and Deeper," well let me introduce you to a few dozen . . . (Disclaimer: No offense to those who have earnestly worked hard to get their advanced, post-graduate degrees and practice their respective fields with dedication. I just truly have run into my fair share of those who were educated beyond their intelligence!)

Laney: the most important thing is to do your homework and seek out someone in your locale who is highly qualified in the area of gender issues, cost notwithstanding!!!

Sheri, With all due respect, you would understand if you were attracted to men with all of their muscles and hair. I think a lot of women find, at least the chest and belly hair, very sexy. Shaving is also an obvious sign that things are not the same as before. It becomes a permanate body alteration and changes the male immage. It is different when one shaves because of a sport than if they are shaving to be more feminine. I have said before that the more femanine my hubby looks the less I am physically attracted to him. This is a natural thing being that I am a heterosexual genetic female.

On the flip side of the coin, I really don't understand why a cd man would have to shave his legs to feel feminine? Wig, makeup, undergarments, nylons etc should do it. Especially if the cd is being truthful about not being a transexual and the male presentation is the predominate expression. I want my man to be into presenting as nice of a male as he would the female. Mind you I understand the desire to shave but I don't understand the need. Kitty

Kitty, I respect you tremendously -- and I absolutely understand what you are saying. I'm just giving a flip side view. I know too many coaches and athletes (pro, college, and high school) in various sports (football, swimming, weightlifting, tennis, diving, cycling, and cross country, to name a few) who regularly shave. This is especially true the father south you get in the U.S. Nobody would, upon first meeting any of these coaches and athletes, think they were anything but macho, good-looking, physically fit men. There seems to be an unfair standard applied, though, when a man shaves b/c it feeds his feminine personna! This is the epitopme of discongruence!

As an aside, I have known several men, my late father included, who, if you saw them you would think they shaved their legs, but they don't!!! IMO, the men I know who fall in this category don't have much if any hair on their legs b/c they, like my father did and a good friend does, hardly ever wear short pants -- they spent almost their entire adult lives in long pants.

Now, all that said, I truly do appreciate where you are coming from -- I've known many a GG who was attracted to hair -- and even a lack of hair. One of my oldest GG friends is "extremely, incredibly attracted to" bald men!!! And, I have certainly heard many GG's say they like certain amounts of hair on a man's chest (once heard a couple of GG friends discussing what was too much, what was not enough, and what was just right. Let's face it, different strokes for different folks. I'll come clean: my wife doesn't have a problem with me shaving my legs. I do it b/c I love the feel -- and, in fact, when we were dating, this is how I told her I was a crossdresser. She doesn't have a problem with my shaving my arms and pits. We have boundaries when it comes to my chest -- summer time is fine (b/c of styles of outfits) and some other times are okay if an outfit and occassion dictates such -- like when we did our Vegas wedding with me as the bride. The one NO-NO is this small patch of hair on the small of my back. For whatever reason, my wife loves it -- so it is off limits to the razor. Boundaries can be healthy!

[kittypw GG]

Laney,
I agree with Sheri on the "educated beyond their intelligence" concept. I have also had this expirence with Physicians. I have known some pretty sharp PA's that outshine the most degreed Physicians.

I have had some bad expirences with so called "gender specialists". We went to one but I think her reputation came from being the only one who expressed and interest in treating those kinds of people. I was invited to attend a session with my huby after his third visit. She sat across from me and said with a very big smile "D doesn't want his penis" I think that she was pushing my hubby to believe that he was a women trapped in a man's body. This did a number on both of us. He became confused and it was the darkest period of our marriage. Therapists can have a big influence on people and not always in good ways. This is why it is important to go with your gut and drop a bad one. Don't be afraid to let them go. Good luck to you with the therapy, I do think that it can be benificial.

Sheri,
Loved your story about the patch of hair. you are right, boundries can be healthy. Count me in on finding bald guys sexy. I keep wishing my hubby will lose his hair but I don't think he will.