Wife Rights

[switcheralso]

I was wondering what are normal rights for C/D and their partners. I would like to hear from people on this subject..

PS: I think this attitude has allowed me to explore my female side with the support of my wife.

ME:
I have the right to expect my wife to accept that my crossgendered side is an integral part of me that cannot be "cured" or "wished away."

MY WIFE:
Has the right to know about my cross-dressing, preferably it should have been before marriage, but certainly now that cross-dressing is a significant factor in my life.

ME:
I have the right to honest and open communication with my wife, with negotiation and compromise on both sides, particularly in regard to acceptable outlets for crossgender expression.

MY WIFE:
Has a right to a husband as a man, the man she married, a man who maintain a positive, healthy masculinity while "exploring their femininity" and seek neither to evade responsibilities nor to appropriate my wifes feminine roles.

Adapted from C/D bill of rights

[Tree GG]

For those that remember.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvH7ySQi37E

[KandisTX]

I was wondering what are normal rights for C/D and their partners. I would like to hear from people on this subject..

PS: I think this attitude has allowed me to explore my female side with the support of my wife.

ME:
I have the right to expect my wife to accept that my crossgendered side is an integral part of me that cannot be "cured" or "wished away."

MY WIFE:
Has the right to know about my cross-dressing, preferably it should have been before marriage, but certainly now that cross-dressing is a significant factor in my life.

ME:
I have the right to honest and open communication with my wife, with negotiation and compromise on both sides, particularly in regard to acceptable outlets for crossgender expression.

MY WIFE:
Has a right to a husband as a man, the man she married, a man who maintain a positive, healthy masculinity while "exploring their femininity" and seek neither to evade responsibilities nor to appropriate my wifes feminine roles.

Adapted from C/D bill of rights

While I agree with some of what you said, I must disagree with the "Right to expect my wife to accept my crossdressing".

Do we really have the right to EXPECT acceptance? I don't personally think so. While acceptance from our wives is a blessing for those of us that have it, it is never a guarantee that it will last. I know this from my own experiences. Three ex-wives all who claimed they accepted and understood my dressing and yet when it came down to leaving/breaking up, their excuse "I can't handle your crossdressing". (While it was never the main reason used, it was always in the top three).

You are correct that a wife should know before marriage, however for many of us living in secret is all we know and the thought of coming out to someone terrifies the bejeezus out of us.

Communication is key to the survival of ANY relationship, without it you are doomed to fail.

Kandis

[Karren H]

Just read the marriage vows... Love Honor and Cherish.. No one said anything about "Rights" in a Union of Equals.. More along the lines of expectations IMHO... Guidelines??

Ok there is one right I just thought of... I have the right to do what ever she tells me to do!! Lol

Rights..... Jeeeezzzz

I thought the C/D Bill of rights was - You have the right to ramain silent (because your fem voice sucks), you have the right to wear a pretty dress... If you do not have a pretty dress one will be appointed to you.....

No wait... The Moranda CD Rights....

Karren

Karren

[Carin's Wife GG]

we each have the expectation to be loved completely by the other. We each have the expectation that the other person will listen to us with care and respect. We each have the expectation that negotiation can be a piece of our relationship. We each have the expectation of ongoing communication even when that communication needs extra help from a trained professional. We each have the expectation than no serious desicions will be made by either one of us that may impact the emothoinal or physical health of any member of of our family.

Thats about it!



Louise.

[Marla S]

Rights have a tiny problem.

Sometimes they don't help you, because others have rights too and those rights can collide.

Given you have the right to expect your wife to accept that your crossgendered side is an integral part of you that cannot be "cured" or "wished away."

Your SO has the right not to like it, not support it, not wanting to see it ... and she has the right to leave you.

So what's your right worth ?

[Kerry Owens]

What it's worth is the love you share, and the teamwork that makes working together as a team that changes everyone's life for the better.
I don't insist on rights per se....but, I do respect Lawren's needs, and he respects my needs. He puts up with a lot of nuttiness of mine, and understands that I can't walk past a book sale if my life ddepended on it...umm....sure seems to me that I at the very least can return that same acceptance!

[hunny67]

I agree we are allowed to some rights but i agree with karren Hutten, Where & when does HAVE THE RIGHT come into marriage??????

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

While I agree with some of what you said, I must disagree with the "Right to expect my wife to accept my crossdressing".

Do we really have the right to EXPECT acceptance?

Yes, you do. It's a basic human right to be accepted for the person you are. No other cross-section of society is expected to change their ways, attitudes and desires in order to conform.

Does an SO have the 'right' to expect you to be someone you're not?

An SO may not like CDing, I guess, but she doesn't have to be a part of it to accept it. You can't pick and choose the parts of a person you like and fully expect them to completely deny the parts of them you don't like.




But to answer the OP - rights.

We both have the right to do as we please as long as we're not hurting the other, I suppose. And that really has nothing to do with CDing, but is pretty much what a relationship should be about.

[SusanMarie]

I agree that 'rights' is probably not the best word in a relationship.
However, there is a document in www.tri-ess.net/wives that lays out a reasonable set of 'understandings' that can help a couple.

[sissystephanie]

I was wondering what are normal rights for C/D and their partners. I would like to hear from people on this subject..

PS: I think this attitude has allowed me to explore my female side with the support of my wife.

ME:
I have the right to expect my wife to accept that my crossgendered side is an integral part of me that cannot be "cured" or "wished away."

MY WIFE:
Has the right to know about my cross-dressing, preferably it should have been before marriage, but certainly now that cross-dressing is a significant factor in my life.

ME:
I have the right to honest and open communication with my wife, with negotiation and compromise on both sides, particularly in regard to acceptable outlets for crossgender expression.

MY WIFE:
Has a right to a husband as a man, the man she married, a man who maintain a positive, healthy masculinity while "exploring their femininity" and seek neither to evade responsibilities nor to appropriate my wifes feminine roles.

Adapted from C/D bill of rights

Stand tall and stretch your arm out straight with your hand level with the floor. The end of your fingers is the marker for the end of "your" rights. Beyond that point is someone else's territory!

You have no right to expect your wife to accept your crossdressing on your terms since you did not tell her before you were married! I did, my fiance accepted it and we had a very happy 49 1/2 years together. She actively participated in my CD activities.

If your wife now does accept your crossdressing, although maybe not the way you would like her to, then there should be some negotiation and compromise. But only if she is willing, remember you put her in that position by not being honest at the very beginning!

Likewise, your wife does have every right to expect you to be a man for her. She married you as a man, not a woman or a *******!

Work with her, and you may be surprised!

Sissy

More Girl than man sometimes

[SherriePall]

SusanMarie -- That link didn't work, but I followed it to the Tri-Ess homepage where I found what you were posting about under: "Of Interest to Wives.'
There it gives the Fairfaxes "Bill of Rights" for CD's and their SO's.
They are as close to being absolutely fair for both as can be.

[Patty]

I agree with Karen!!

[Satrana]

ME:
I have the right to honest and open communication with my wife, with negotiation and compromise on both sides...

Errr....I have a right to communication? You mean I am allowed to speak, Gosh! Thanks! And since i have been granted the right to speak, I also have the right to negotiate. This is marvelous. I never knew I had so many rights.

MY WIFE:
Has a right to a husband as a man, the man she married, a man who maintain a positive, healthy masculinity....

Why does my wife have a right to "positive healthy masculinity" Many non-cd men are not masculine. Are they also placed under this requirement? And if my masculine side is just a facade, a pretense, does that mean my wife has a right to make me pretend to be something I am not? That means I don't have the right to be the real me

How come this right in not replicated with my wife - do I not have a right to "positive healthy femininity" from her as well. Can I now expect her to be girly most of the time?

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

Errr....I have a right to communication? You mean I am allowed to speak, Gosh! Thanks! And since i have been granted the right to speak, I also have the right to negotiate. This is marvelous. I never knew I had so many rights.


Why does my wife have a right to "positive healthy masculinity" Many non-cd men are not masculine. Are they also placed under this requirement? And if my masculine side is just a facade, a pretense, does that mean my wife has a right to make me pretend to be something I am not? That means I don't have the right to be the real me

How come this right in not replicated with my wife - do I not have a right to "positive healthy femininity" from her as well. Can I now expect her to be girly most of the time?

I don't get this either. I have a right to positive healthy masculinity - as to opposed to what? A negative, ill, masculinity?? Maybe it's just me, but I think it takes a real man to be comfortable with his gender/sexuality/self.

If this were reversed so that the man had a right to girly, sexually attractive women, I'd never be out of a basque and stockings!!!!

I dunno, the only rights any of us have are to live our lives as we choose to. If I suddenly decide I hate HC's CDing, I can choose to not have that in my life and walk out. To try and change him would be totally wrong.

[KandisTX]

Yes, you do. It's a basic human right to be accepted for the person you are. No other cross-section of society is expected to change their ways, attitudes and desires in order to conform.

Does an SO have the 'right' to expect you to be someone you're not?

An SO may not like CDing, I guess, but she doesn't have to be a part of it to accept it. You can't pick and choose the parts of a person you like and fully expect them to completely deny the parts of them you don't like.

What I meant about the "you don't have the right to EXPECT anything" is this:

When you use a word lik EXPECT, it often carries the connotations that it MUST BE that way. While we can all have expectations (or hopes) that we will be accepted by our SO's, the odds are stacked against many of us CDs when it comes to acceptance. I can verify that 75% do NOT usually accept it forever, even if they say they do. This is based on three of my four marriages and my ex-wives responses and changes in their "acceptance".

This would be like me saying "I expect my wife to have dinner on the table waiting for me every night when I come home from work". Sure it would be nice, but stuff happens and that is not always going to be the way of things. Expectations are Hopes, how we desire things to be, though they are not always that way, it is nice to hope and dream.

Now, I'm not saying that everything listed in the OP was wrong or incorrect. Just because I don't agree with it does not invalidate the thought process. I simply stated my opinion on the matter.

Kandis

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

What I meant about the "you don't have the right to EXPECT anything" is this:

When you use a word lik EXPECT, it often carries the connotations that it MUST BE that way. While we can all have expectations (or hopes) that we will be accepted by our SO's, the odds are stacked against many of us CDs when it comes to acceptance. I can verify that 75% do NOT usually accept it forever, even if they say they do. This is based on three of my four marriages and my ex-wives responses and changes in their "acceptance".

This would be like me saying "I expect my wife to have dinner on the table waiting for me every night when I come home from work". Sure it would be nice, but stuff happens and that is not always going to be the way of things. Expectations are Hopes, how we desire things to be, though they are not always that way, it is nice to hope and dream.

Now, I'm not saying that everything listed in the OP was wrong or incorrect. Just because I don't agree with it does not invalidate the thought process. I simply stated my opinion on the matter.

Kandis

Hi

I sort of appreciate where you are coming from - and this is hard for me to understand. For instance, I cannot understand women who simply cannot accept it or try to 'change' their SO (not allowing them to dress). Though, trying to understand the issues behind this is my reason for being here, previously I was shrugging it off and really not understanding what on earth my SO was worrying about.

I suppose where I'm coming from is that you have a right to be accepted within a marriage/relationship for who you are. Those who are being denied the right to dress are being denied something very important to them - an expression of the self. I've said before now to my SO that as a woman, if I called my family and said he won't let me wear short skirts or tops showing my cleavage, the advice would be "Leave him now!", because it's a form of control and all GGs will tell you that no man has the right to tell her how to dress. (The same would apply if my SO insisted I wear certain types of underwear that made him more sexually attracted to me.)

In reality, the buck stops with the CDer. You DO have that right, if your SO can't accept it, you have the choice to live unfulfilled or find someone who will accept it.

I honestly can't believe that the amount of women who have a real problem with it is as high as 75%. HC is the first partner I've had who likes to make a 'deal' of dressing and actually owns his own clothes (One bloke did have the clothes but chose not to wear them with me, he modelled his shoes once in a while - again I never gave it a second thought and possibly that attitude is why he chose to keep it private.), but recently I've been trying to think of men I've dated who haven't asked me to do their make-up or try my clothes or underwear on for a 'laugh'. I can't think of a single one! For instance, I even know my brother-in-law wears my sister's knickers and has her shave his legs and do his make-up from time to time - I know nothing more than that, and don't want to, but there's always more under the surface eh?

You can expect your dinner on the table when you get home, but you don't have a 'right' to it - if that makes sense?

I can only imagine that your CDing being cited as reasons during divorce are just one of those divorce things that happen. When getting divorced the things that really don't matter suddenly bug you, and many times you find excuses to not be with the other person so that it appears to all and to yourself that it's the totally right decision to be making. None of your ex-wives divorced you because of your CDing and it seems (I may be wrong, I have a couple of posts on a forum to guess from, so be gentle with me if I'm way off the mark) that while you were together, your CDing was accepted as a part of the relationship and of you. The CDing being stated as a reason stings because of what it means to you. I'm pretty sure that if HC ever left me, he'd tell me a few things I've heard from my ex-husband too - but while we're together and in love he's happy to live with my quirks (which are probably a lot worse and darn site annoying than CDing).

I thought long and hard before making the reply you quoted above because I didn't want to come across as patronising. I'm aware that I can't even begin to understand the issues. It did though upset me that anyone can believe that they don't have a basic right to express themselves within a relationship and the right to choose whether or not this is 'allowed' lies with the SO. You have a right to be happy and do as you want to do as long as you're not hurting anyone else.

Lots of love and the utmost of respect. xx

[KandisTX]

Hi

I sort of appreciate where you are coming from - and this is hard for me to understand. For instance, I cannot understand women who simply cannot accept it or try to 'change' their SO (not allowing them to dress). Though, trying to understand the issues behind this is my reason for being here, previously I was shrugging it off and really not understanding what on earth my SO was worrying about.

I suppose where I'm coming from is that you have a right to be accepted within a marriage/relationship for who you are. Those who are being denied the right to dress are being denied something very important to them - an expression of the self. I've said before now to my SO that as a woman, if I called my family and said he won't let me wear short skirts or tops showing my cleavage, the advice would be "Leave him now!", because it's a form of control and all GGs will tell you that no man has the right to tell her how to dress. (The same would apply if my SO insisted I wear certain types of underwear that made him more sexually attracted to me.)

In reality, the buck stops with the CDer. You DO have that right, if your SO can't accept it, you have the choice to live unfulfilled or find someone who will accept it.

I honestly can't believe that the amount of women who have a real problem with it is as high as 75%. HC is the first partner I've had who likes to make a 'deal' of dressing and actually owns his own clothes (One bloke did have the clothes but chose not to wear them with me, he modelled his shoes once in a while - again I never gave it a second thought and possibly that attitude is why he chose to keep it private.), but recently I've been trying to think of men I've dated who haven't asked me to do their make-up or try my clothes or underwear on for a 'laugh'. I can't think of a single one! For instance, I even know my brother-in-law wears my sister's knickers and has her shave his legs and do his make-up from time to time - I know nothing more than that, and don't want to, but there's always more under the surface eh?

You can expect your dinner on the table when you get home, but you don't have a 'right' to it - if that makes sense?

I can only imagine that your CDing being cited as reasons during divorce are just one of those divorce things that happen. When getting divorced the things that really don't matter suddenly bug you, and many times you find excuses to not be with the other person so that it appears to all and to yourself that it's the totally right decision to be making. None of your ex-wives divorced you because of your CDing and it seems (I may be wrong, I have a couple of posts on a forum to guess from, so be gentle with me if I'm way off the mark) that while you were together, your CDing was accepted as a part of the relationship and of you. The CDing being stated as a reason stings because of what it means to you. I'm pretty sure that if HC ever left me, he'd tell me a few things I've heard from my ex-husband too - but while we're together and in love he's happy to live with my quirks (which are probably a lot worse and darn site annoying than CDing).

I thought long and hard before making the reply you quoted above because I didn't want to come across as patronising. I'm aware that I can't even begin to understand the issues. It did though upset me that anyone can believe that they don't have a basic right to express themselves within a relationship and the right to choose whether or not this is 'allowed' lies with the SO. You have a right to be happy and do as you want to do as long as you're not hurting anyone else.

Lots of love and the utmost of respect. xx

I think you hit it right on the head with your comment "You can expect your dinner on the table when you get home, but you don't have a 'right' to it - if that makes sense?" That can be applied to the CDing aspect of things as well.. just replace dinner on the table when you get home with "Accepting my CDing".

As to the 75% I was speaking only of my wives, those I was married to, that does not include the limited number of girlfriends I have had in the past whom were accepting of my dressing, but then we were not living together so there isn't really any basis for evidence confirming my percentage. That was as I said only those I was legally married to. Yes, my first wife used it as one of the main reasons to gain custody of our son (whom I have not seen in 17 years), my second thought she could change me, the ironic thing with her was SHE was the one to fully dress me the first time, prior to that I was only wearing lingerie, and my third wife was jealous because Kandis got more attention than she did when we went out together. Current wife (GlitterGG on this forum), has known since we met and she accepts, understands, and participates in my dressing.

Kandis

[Melinda G]

I don't know much about rights. But if a woman marries you as a man, I think she has the right to expect you remain a man, at least in her presence.

I've seen very little discussion of how we would react, if wives suddenly stopped shaving their legs and underarms, and got a butch haircut, and began dressing and acting like a man. Personally, I would be repelled. For the most part, crossdressing and marriage don't mix. The first thing it says to the little woman, is that you have other interests and sexual outlets, than her! Most women see it as competition, and have no idea how to compete with it, or deal with it. Most women want sex with a man. And Cding would seem to work out best, with wives who have lost interest in sex, and basically don't care anymore what you do.
Your hour is up. That'll be $50 please.

[Stephenie S]

I think you are treading on pretty thin ice when you talk about "rights" in the marrital situation.

I even think you are treading on thin ice with that expectation stuff. I know I had better not "expect" my dinner to be on the table when I get home. I am fortunate enough when my dear partner has had the time or energy to prepare a meal in the evening, but she works just as hard as do, and I would be foolish to expect any such thing. I am an adult, thank you very much, and I am perfectly capable (and happy) to prepare my own food (and enough for my wife) when and if I am hungry.

Marriage has few "rights", and a whole LOT of co-operation.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

I think you hit it right on the head with your comment "You can expect your dinner on the table when you get home, but you don't have a 'right' to it - if that makes sense?" That can be applied to the CDing aspect of things as well.. just replace dinner on the table when you get home with "Accepting my CDing".

Kandis

But dinner on the table isn't an expression of self, lol. You are who you are and in my book you have every right to that. I also know what you're saying and now I'm confused.

**wonders off scratching head and muttering to self.**

[Satrana]

Those who are being denied the right to dress are being denied something very important to them - an expression of the self. I've said before now to my SO that as a woman, if I called my family and said he won't let me wear short skirts or tops showing my cleavage, the advice would be "Leave him now!", because it's a form of control and all GGs will tell you that no man has the right to tell her how to dress.

In reality, the buck stops with the CDer. You DO have that right, if your SO can't accept it, you have the choice to live unfulfilled or find someone who will accept it.

It did though upset me that anyone can believe that they don't have a basic right to express themselves within a relationship and the right to choose whether or not this is 'allowed' lies with the SO.

Bullseye! I am often shocked to read comments either from CDs or GGs saying that one partner has the right to control another, or the SO has a right to a "real man" etc. Control, restrictions, abdications of self-worth have no place in a relationship period. No wonder there is so much unhappiness and broken relationships if these are commonly held views.

The usual excuse to back up this position is "relationships are about compromises" Yes they are, but you have to understand what is being compromised. The compromises are about finding the best solution where both parties are happy and fulfilled, not just one side. Compromises are based on maximizing the happiness of your partner without trespassing on unacceptable behavior that jeopardizes the sanctity of the relationship. Compromises should begin from the best possible solution, not the worst.

Relationships are supposed to be about bringing out the best in your partner and yourself. Relationships are supposed to allow you to grow into a better person within the safety and security of another person's love. Acceptance, trust and respect are key cornerstones of worthwhile relationships, they are not optional.

It saddens me that crossdressing seems so often to bring out the worst in people, it manages somehow to subvert the meaning of a loving relationship and people end up behaving in a manner that would not be accepted in a non-cd relationship. Crossdressing seems to pull the proverbial wool over people's eyes simply because of its taboo status.

[Fab Karen]

Ok there is one right I just thought of... I have the right to do what ever she tells me to do!! Lol

Rights..... Jeeeezzzz

I thought the C/D Bill of rights was - You have the right to ramain silent (because your fem voice sucks), you have the right to wear a pretty dress... If you do not have a pretty dress one will be appointed to you.....

No wait... The Miranda CD Rights....

Karren

Karren

And: Any outfit you wear can and will be judged for fashion sense.

[Fab Karen]

I don't get this either. I have a right to positive healthy masculinity - as to opposed to what? A negative, ill, masculinity?? Maybe it's just me, but I think it takes a real man to be comfortable with his gender/sexuality/self.

Yes! A woman who GETS IT. Thanks for your comment.

"I turn on the tv, to hear a man tell me how white my shirts could be
but he can't be a man because he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me" -the Rolling Stones

[ReineD]

Here's the link to the Tri Ess BoR page that Susan Marie and Sherrie referred to earlier:

Wives' and Crossdressers' Bill of Rights

Reine