I am accepting...as long as you are like me!

[SatinDoll00]

nope you didnt offend me at all that is why I agreed with your original post. I meant it when I said it is easy for me to see when I am offended but not why something I believe might offend others. I am sure we can all work on that.

For example, I have frequently stated my relief at finding out that being a CD doesn't mean I am gay. It wouldn't have occurred to me that my relief at that is also the opposite for someone who has same sex attraction (and are wondering where it "came" from) and decide that gender issues played a role.

I just think a little sensitivity all the way around with a focus more on the actual activity of crossdressing is where we have more common ground.

Being CD certainly does not make you gay. Being gay makes you gay

Morgan

[suzannecarr]

i myself am i cd mtf, i am a very honest person , when i first started dressing( very young) i thought it icky to look at a boy, or guy or man , as something attractive! but as i began to learn about myself and other things, i seemed to change , maybe i matured, maybe other factors, but now, and it has to be certain situations, i am attracted to a certain type of man, and do have certain, well lets just say fantasies on a , well, quite frequent basis! and back before i did, well, i have to admit that there were certain times when looking back , i was attracted , and at one time pursued by a guy! as a matter of fact, now, i wish i had just let it happen, because he saw me totally as a female! i was actually dressed , and its a long story. i think and i am entitled to my opinion that many , probably many here! if they get right down to it have had similiar experiences, and you know what? thats ok!(stewart smalley) but some may havent and thats ok too! bottom line i have seen the bashing myself, ive actually had it happen here, and really i didnt even pay attention, i believe there was some insecurity involved with the situation! I AM ATTRACTED TO CERTAIN MEN! geez that feels honest! and i dont think this thread was bs, because i can see the point very clearly! for those who get angry and accuse the original thread starter of starting something. well ive seen alot worse and its a valid discussion! suz

[brylram]

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.

You seem very concerned with intolerant, exclusive, and belittling posts within the forum. Yet statements like this one demonstrate that you yourself havent stopped to think about what intolerances you may be expressing. This statement expresses, to me, a lack of respect for GGs and SOs, almost as though you expect them to be less than respectful, as well as petty. It seems dismissive and belittling. and bordering on heterophobic. This seems especially innapropriate in the context of your post, which is all about acceptance and inclusion.

Personally, I find statements that imply such positions just as insulting as outright statements of "ick" and "eww", because subtlety does not, unfortunately, bypass insult. It also seems insulting that you would expect that simply because matters of homo or bi-sexuality are appealing and acceptable to you, that they will also be so for other members of the forum. In seeing your own insult at their homophobic statements, you have failed to recognize that perhaps your posts cause great discomfort (if not even a feeling of disclusion or lack of safety) for them. And in pushing in this manner for acceptance and a feeling of safety (and ironically enough, unity), you may also be infringing upon theirs. It seems you've amended such beliefs, if they ever existed, but I feel the need to make this statement anyway.

I hope I have not misinterpreted your intentions or underlying feelings in what you have said, but I feel it's necessary to acknowledge that perhaps a GG or SO who read your original post drew the same conclusion from your statement (which seems less than well thought out to me) and that their potential hurt is just as serious as that which you have experienced.

i dont think this thread was bs, because i can see the point very clearly! for those who get angry and accuse the original thread starter of starting something. well ive seen alot worse and its a valid discussion!

While I agree that it is most certainly a valid discussion, many of the negative reactions appear to be stemming from 'political' and inter-social conflicts within the forum, and a knowledge of the underlying influences for the creation of this board, rather than disagreement with the content.

[SatinDoll00]

You seem very concerned with intolerant, exclusive, and belittling posts within the forum. Yet statements like this one demonstrate that you yourself havent stopped to think about what intolerances you may be expressing. This statement expresses, to me, a lack of respect for GGs and SOs, almost as though you expect them to be less than respectful, as well as petty. It seems dismissive and belittling. and bordering on heterophobic.

I would agree with your statement...had I made a statement of disrespect to the GGs or SOs on the forum. In fact, if you read what I posted, I completely understand why someone that is in a relationship with a CD might post opinions that are negative to bi or homosexual behavior. I suppose I did not use language that was simple enough to be understood.

The fact is, many CDs have bi or homosexual tendencies. To suppress that because anyone (GG, CD, TS, TG, Bi, Homo, or anyone else) may be offended is simply denying the fact that the issue exists.

You say that I have expectations of the GGs/SOs here. In fact...I do not. My only point was that I can relate to where they are coming from, whereas I cannot relate to a CD that shows distain for a fellow CD because of sexual orientation.

Your words are eloquent enough...but my original point has somehow escaped you.

My intent was not to attack GGs or SOs...quite the opposite. Perhaps I should have chosen better semantics. The issue I had is that making negative remarks concerning someone's sexual preference, while posting on a board that is supposed to offer support to those that operate outside the norm is hypocritical. I stand by that remark.

I agreed that I would not post anything else concerning sexuality, since it seems to make some uncomfortable, and I will not...but I will defend myself, and those that need it, in this thread!

Take what you will from my remarks, but remember this, there are a lot of people out there that would tell you, me, anyone that what all of us do is wrong.

Only TOGETHER can we change the attitudes of those that seek to oppress and deny us.

Morgan

[brylram]

I would agree with your statement...had I made a statement of disrespect to the GGs or SOs on the forum.

Your words are eloquent enough...but my original point has somehow escaped you.

Thank you for the compliment. However, my point also seems to have been lost on you. The statement that "they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up." in reference to GGs and SOs when faced with the concept of a homosexual man, is highly offensive. It thoroughly implies that they are insecure enough with their own relationships and sexualities, that the notion of a man loving another man, rather than a woman, would automatically send them into a defensive tizzy. Almost to say that the automatic reaction would be "Dear lord! The potential for rejection or disinterest from a man I most likely am not attracted to anyway?! However shall I cope?! Gather the torches girls, let's express homophobia to keep our playing field open!"

Had I not witnessed intolerance expressed in such a manner being thrown in BOTH directions many times in real life, and often to the emotional detriment of those on the recieving end, I most likely would not have a problem with this. However, I have, and so I do. And I stand by my request that you acknowledge that your statement too was a version of discrimination, and no less serious than the others shown elsewhere on this forum.

[SatinDoll00]

The statement that "they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up." in reference to GGs and SOs when faced with the concept of a homosexual man, is highly offensive. It thoroughly implies that they are insecure enough with their own relationships and sexualities, that the notion of a man loving another man, rather than a woman, would automatically send them into a defensive tizzy.

Not my intent.

Rather...I was merely stating that if a GG/SO had that feeling, I could understand it. I am not, nor did I mean to, imply that a GG or SO (either gender for that matter) necessarily has to constantly concern themselves with the prospect that their Crossdressing partner may indulge in pleasure outside the relationship...I was merely stating that I could understand that those that did feel that way were justified. I must admit...my verbiage was not absolutely perfect. I did not mean to imply what you are assigning to my words. I am merely stating that I can understand, and certainly relate to, someone that has had a bad experience, or might feel intimidated at the specter of finding their partner in a situation with someone of the same sex; that situation being outside the confines of the relationship.

With all of that said, I amend my original statement to include the following..."I understand a GG or SO that has experienced infidelity ..."

My original intent was to empathize with, not alienate, GGs/SOs.

I suppose when the written word is read, there is no inflection, so sometimes careful explanation is required.

Morgan

[brylram]

I suppose when the written word is read, there is no inflection, so sometimes careful explanation is required.

Too often the case. I appreciate your explanation, and apologize for my misinterpretation. Unfortunately, when it seems a negative context could be applied, I find it's important to argue in defence against said context. It's better to err in favour of potentially pointing out and addressing inconsistencies and wrong-doing, and reconcile the misunderstanding later, than to risk leaving something negative unchecked.

[SatinDoll00]

Too often the case. I appreciate your explanation, and apologize for my misinterpretation. Unfortunately, when it seems a negative context could be applied, I find it's important to argue in defence against said context. It's better to err in favour of potentially pointing out and addressing inconsistencies and wrong-doing, and reconcile the misunderstanding later, than to risk leaving something negative unchecked.

I could not agree more.

Morgan

[Sheri 4242]

Whew! I hadn't bothered to read this thread until it kept coming to the top of Page One. Then all of a sudden something my wife said made sense. She was upset about an issue regarding infidelity. I have to admit, I wasn't certain what she was talking about at the time.

What are we really talking about??? If it is an issue that, once asuming one's "second self personna," a person is free of the constraints of their marital vows, then I'd take issue with that, as would my wife.

If it is an issue that this forum should be tolerant of those with many different orientations, then I'd say I have rarely seen much intolerant stances on this forum.

If it is an issue of Toyah picking on my political beliefs, then banish her!!!

(Just joking, Toyah -- I think you know that there are those of us with some right-wing leanings on some issues that also have liberal leanings on other issues . . . and maybe even libertarian leanings on still other issues. I'm still not certain who needs to run down who? But, in the main, I think we agree on a majority of issues -- and are respectful when we don't.)

I've never known Morgan to make a comment that was anything but thoughtful, and when if not in agreement with whomever, at least was respectful.

Obviously we have a wide representation of people here and, as someone said, no place is perfect.

Actually, I feel a bit like Kieron:

. . . am i missing something please tell me??, ive seen no gay bashing on the forum by ANY GG, all ive seen is GGs say they believe its cheating if they are with a CD and that CD goes off with a man, going with a man beyond the boundaries of a relationship is wrong and deceitful, dressed or not! I too agreed with this and i will agree with this til the day i die!

I couldn't agree more!!!

I prefer not to read stories of people glorifying their infidelity . . .

Again, I couldn't agree more!!!

But, as I recall Tamara GG, a few others, and me discussing several months ago, there is nothing funny about adultery!!! It is MHO that anything that detracts from your emotional commitment to your SO is wrong!!! Having been the victims of infidelity, my wife and I are both pretty adamant regaring our feelings on the subject!!! It isn't a matter of whether a person is straight, bi, or gay/lesbian: infidelity is infidelity!!!

the issue isn't open relationships whereby the spouse knows the CD is going to go with a man...open agreed upon relationships seem perfectly responsible to me, in fact ive been in one myself, its when the CD intends to deceive the SO and do the nasty with a men behind her back the minute its turned and have no intention of discussing it with her

I agree -- IF that is what the two have agreed upon, then that's their business!!!

No, but anyone who waits until their SO is unavailable, out of town, or unaware to engage in sexual behavior with another person, contrary to vows or committment they have made with that other person is in the wrong. Dee

Absolutely agree!!!

Like Morgan said, I feel as though I have met several kindred spirits on this forum.

I also agree with Morgan that when dealing with the written word, there is no inflection -- or facial expressions to watch, etc. -- so sometimes you have to be careful how you state things.

[Lisa Golightly]

A virtual storm, in a virtual teacup, in a virtual world of near virtual people...

[SatinDoll00]

A virtual storm, in a virtual teacup, in a virtual world of near virtual people...

A valid, and subtle point.

Morgan

[Chantelle CD]

I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.

I wasn't going to make an issue out of this, but I seriously feel that I may want to search for somewhere else.

There is way too much bashing of homosexual and bisexuals here.

Words like "ick" and "eww" and "nasty" are not really needed.

Has anyone else picked up on this? I sort of understand it from the GGs and the SOs...they feel threatened, so it gets their dander up.

I want to remind everyone here that we all (at least the CDs/TGs) are involved in something that is generally not accepted by mainstream society. For you to call someone else "nasty" or "icky" is just plain ignorant!!

Don't be a hypocrite. We all want acceptance, and alienating one another is not going to get us where we want to be. We all have our opinions about things, but ripping into someone, the way I have seen done here, does not exactly solidify us as a community.

Gays and Lesbians are united, and they show support for one another...this is one reason that they are generally more accepted than CD/TGs.

Seriously...if you are straight, gay, or bi, it doesn't matter...we are all in this thing together. Slamming one another (don't even say it) for our sexual preferences or habits demeans us all and makes us nothing more than those we seek to change.

Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???

I have not been here long...and I feel that some of you are really great, and I feel that ALL of us deserve better than the treatment I have seen dished out here.

Please, let me know if I am out of line here. If this board is going to turn into a place that only CDs that are straight, out to their SOs (if they have them), and otherwise meet some kind of criteria can participate, beyond being CD/TG, then let me know...and I will be gone.

Thanks,
Morgan

You are not alone my friend in your thoughts, and i have also thought about changing forums as well, for i have felt judged by a fair few here for my beliefs feelings and thoughts as i grow with this part of myself, and understanding of myself, sure i may say one thing, and really believe it, but then it changes a month later as i get a deeper understanding. I have noticed a lac of replies to my posts by a great number of people on here as well, and that includes Admins as well!!! It does seem as though there are a lot here that tend to judge, and hate others for there opinions and beliefs as they grow with this part of themselves, Hmmm something i thought this forum was all about, would have expected more from the leaders of this forum! Its not acceptance that i seek really, for this crossdressing thing, TS, TG gay, or bi, pfft comeon peops its simple judgment and giving another there right to there own life experiances, and allowing them to have it, and to still see them for what they really are, LIGHT, alive, a point of view in this amazing world we ummmmmmm....SHARE maybe.

On the other hand, there are a few people that dont judge, and have really big hearts, they are the ones that keep me here, as i try to grow, and become what i am, and finaly stop the battels with myself.

You are like a breath of fresh air here, if you do go, let me know where you go and feel at home with others that want to grow, and not be judged.

<hugs>

[Sheri 4242]

A virtual storm, in a virtual teacup, in a virtual world of near virtual people...

A valid, and subtle point. Morgan

Virtually!

[Michelia]

I know better than getting in on this thread, yet..

Satin Doll, I for one appreciate your comments and I know it is not easy to say it like you feel it. So Kudos to you.

I also do not agree with your extreme position. I do not think there is active "gay bashing", but I have observed many instances of insensitive remarks. Yo9u do not have to call people "ignorant", just call them on their ways. But then, I think you are being a little oversensitive. I am that way too.

I do not agree that you are "trolling".

Please do not leave. You are doing fine. Speak up when you have to without threatening to leave. There will always be those that aggravate us a little. That probably applies to everyone here.

The most important principle here is that it is always a balancing act between freedom of expression and getting into other people's hair. This is a tough job to manage for our moderators. I rather it be a free place. This means there will always be some hurt feelings, including our own.

The second principle is that we are all human and have emotions and different experiences and make mistakes. We also need to forgive each other from time to time.

Michelia

[battybattybats]

Regarding adultery.. I started a thread a while back on the topic after seeing the remarkable statistic on tv that almost a third of people 'cheated'. Male and female.

It's all to easy to characterise these people as 'bad' and look at the situation simplistically. Perhaps for 1 in 3 people monogamy is an unrealistic goal?

If someone feels they need more than one partner it still isn't right for them to risk exposing an unknowing partner to stds. Many will be scared that informing their partner about such a need would end the relationship possibly effecting children. Considering how strictly the social expectation of monogamy is despite the clearly massive numbers who fail to live up to it there should be little surprise that such a risk would be very real.

No-one said doing the right thing was easy.

Regarding impressions...
The notion that we should avoid discussing some topics because it could turn away some folk seems a dangerous one. Denying support to some CDs and their SOs to make things comfortable for others? Surely things can be made comfortable for folks without ostracising the gay, bi or less conservative CDs who need support just as much as anyone else? Surely we needn't make important topics like sex and sexuality a complete taboo just to ensure the site is friendly to all?

Little good comes of pointing accusatory fingers. Little good comes from hounding off the forum those with different values either.

With 1 in 3 here probably cheaters, CD and GG alike (unless there is something special about CDs that make them or those they are attracted to especially faithful) there may be a lot of hypocrasy about.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."

[Chelseaswpa]

Well being one of those awful gay dressers just kidding - I love this site because I can come here and interact without any type of undue innuendo or "trolling". I have never felt the least bit insulted or anything like that. I think we are making mountains out of molehills- hey wait a minute gets me to thinking hmmm hugs to you all and get over it that is what I have been doing for 40 years of gay jokes and snide remarks- I consider the source and move on- if it is someone I may be able to change their mind I may attempt it. Hey this place is too cool for school for me

[Margot]

It's too bad this got started. Can I end it on a humerous note?
"People in glass slippers shouldn't throw stones".
Love to all!!!
Margot

[Sky]

I have noticed that there is a certain degree of intolerance here on this board.
...
Don't be a hypocrite. We all want acceptance, and alienating one another is not going to get us where we want to be. We all have our opinions about things, but ripping into someone, the way I have seen done here, does not exactly solidify us as a community.
...
Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???
...
Please, let me know if I am out of line here.

Thanks. First, for putting things so clear. Also for reminding me that all hope is not lost (I tend to feel down when surrounded by judgmental posts). And incidentally, there is a sticky dedicated to ideas to revamp the forum which includes -among other things- more compartimenting (it's a technicality for "segregation").

[Wendy me]

Thanks. First, for putting things so clear. Also for reminding me that all hope is not lost (I tend to feel down when surrounded by judgmental posts). And incidentally, there is a sticky dedicated to ideas to revamp the forum which includes -among other things- more compartimenting (it's a technicality for "segregation").

were did you get that upgrading the forum was "segregation"????????? could not be even close to right on that...................

[Angie G]

I've known a few gay men and woman and never had a problem being around them my helper at work is a gay girl and a great person.
No one here should try to pass judgment or make remarks about anyone
what is normal it no one where.
Satin don't judge this board by a few people that is why we have an ignore list No matter were you go you will find someone like this can we let them see they think wrong
Angie

[PaulaJaneThomas]

Should we segregate this forum?? A certain area for CDs, another for TGs, another for gay CDs, another for straight CDs, another for Black CDs, another for Jewish CDs, another for middle aged CDs, another for Hindu CDs...you see where I am going???

We definitely need a special forum for badgers. Ideally with free beer

When I first joined this forum I was quite frankly appalled at the homophobic content of some of the posts. Thankfully things have improved recently.

[AmandaM]

Now that we've all got our panties in a bunch, can we get back to our regular programming?

[Shadeauxmarie]

We definitely need a special forum for badgers.

Badgers? Badgers? We don't need no stinking badgers!

[cadon]

Being new here, I have yet to see any behaviors of bashing taking place. Either way, bashing and closed mindedness occur everyplace, everyday in life ordinarily. It's apparent in cities, towns, and even in the most of rural places. It's positive name is diversity.
As a young child, I was taught to demonstrate acceptance and to discard negative actions. To fight with someone beneath your level will only bring you down..to engage in a worthwhile cause fight with someone who may be bigger, smarter, or hold more authority -- you may learn something.
To express yourself in a non traditional manner, such as CD, choosing an alternative lifestyle (bi, gay), or accepting the choice to live a transgender identity is enough of a struggle for those who do it everyday. So why discriminate against each other in this forum??? It's hard enough to spend the extra time each and every day accepting yourself for the person you are (for all people). Each and every person has their own issues how we show them and react to situations shows the world how strong we are.

You kill more flies with honey than vinegar. When someone is not so nice, just smile at them and say have a good day. It leaves them baffled and even more frustrated with themselves.

thats my

[PortiaHoney]

Being new to this Forum, I have found some threads to be not to my taste, so why comment, move on to what you are looking for. Find what is important to you. there is plenty to choose from. I, for one, love the acceptance and support. There are other sites which are more risque are out there, which is why i came here. I think that some CD's have such an issue accepting their own behaviour and the questions it raises about ourselves that they tend to strike out at what is outside their point of view, even though that view is definately outside the norm. I can live with EWWE or whatever, to each their own taste.

Yes, some of us have had bad relationship experiences, it leaves a bitter taste. It's all in the healing. It's up to the rest of us to spread tolerance and understanding as part of our acceptance of our own "deviant" behaviour. And I said that from the "mainstream" point of view. We are all here for "healing" from one wound or another.

We come here for acceptance and personal growth. As part of that growth, some will stretch the boundaries, as any of you who have had kids will know. Age does not necessarily bring wisdom, that comes with experience. There are controls in place to keep the way over the top stuff out (I hope there is). We should learn more tolerance of others from the GG's and not just learn makeup and clothes. We strive for acceptance, yet we ourselves cannot accept diversity? What is it about the female gender that so attracts us to look like them yet not be like them?

People are people are people.

Smile and make someone wonder what you've been up to..............