Heated discusion at work today

[Ronda_B]

Today at my job during break I almost came out of the closet to my co-workers. The discusion was about a post op that was in court because her husband just found out the she was born a male. The discusion start around what one guy say that being a crossdresser/transvestite was a choice thing and not a mental or a born thing. This is when I lost it and tried to set them straight on the facts. The medical history came into play when they said that there is a cromazone thing about being either male or female and the X & Y Gene. To which I said that some or most transgendered people have an extera X or Y Gene from conception. This person said that a judge can't say weather a person is leaglely male or female, to which I said the it takes a judge to change you birth certificates sex from male to female and can be done in a lot of states now. This is when thing really got heated and my dander was ruffled. I stopped it and said that a few of my friends have done this and I would check with them and they said that they would like to see that. I about had my panties in a bunch when I left that break, and to think I'm the boss. :mad:

[Missy]

for me it is a choise to wear a bra and panties For some it seams that they are born that way. for me I was born a male. check your own core belifes

[Oddlee]

As a personnel manager for a while, and an employee for a long time, I've experienced working with open gays, lesbians, and transsexuals. Maybe my own CD experience has given me broader vision, but I have to ask all of you, if you do not envision a sexual relationship with a person, what do you care what gender they present versus their actual gender?

Lee

[PaulaJaneThomas]

The medical history came into play when they said that there is a cromazone thing about being either male or female and the X & Y Gene. To which I said that some or most transgendered people have an extera X or Y Gene from conception.

I think you're referring to Klinefelter's syndrome. I believe that gender identity issues are not un-common amongst KS folk but most TGs do not have any chromosomal abnormalities.

[KewTnCurvy GG]

No offense though I don't know I can say this without it sounding offensive but you do live in Wyoming. Not exactly the Mecca of open mindedness.
And you work in construction? Again, not exactly an open minded group. There was no reason to get in a huff, honestly, could out yourself if you're not careful. Don't get upset at situations like this, take an opportunity the help expand someone's mind and consciousness.
Peace
Kew

[TammyB]

The chromosome argument is a desperate one at best, a poor way to attempt to label MtF transgenders as men in order to make everything simple and rosy in the minds of those that cant cope with the idea.

It is also tosh, since there are XY women, and XX men.

[CD Tammy]

Don't you wish you could just show up at work one day dressed in your highest heels, shortest mini-skirt and tightest blouse? One day when I match all ^%$#@$%&^ numbers on the Mega Millions I'll be doing it.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

It is also tosh, since there are XY women, and XX men.

Andorgen Immunity Syndrom (AIS - your XY women) is another variable intersex condition. Some indeed are indistigushable from XX women, save for having a womb. Others are far more gender ambiguous in appearance and may or may not identify as female. I can't remember the clinical name for XX men but the condition is caused by the SRY gene migrating from the Y chomosome to the X chromosome during sperm development effectively turning the X chromosome into a Y chomosome.

[Wendy me]

first off the "wife" should have told her husband ....... something like that is not to be kept secrete and hope it never gets found out .....

now the break room i have talked abought gender issues with quite a few people that had no idea abought a lot of it ...what i found is small bites work well .... see we would love to just tell every one abought this life style and gain acceptance from all (or at lest most) ........ but small bite of info that can be chewed and digested .... are cool ....

over all i think you did a good job .....

[Caitlin Rose]

Most of us MtF CDers are fully genetically male. I would suspect that the same ratios exist among TS people. Sure, there are intersex conditions that are the result of chromosomal and/or hormonal anomalies, but they are not present in the vast majority of CDers.

That doesn't mean that we have a choice about being the way we are. The fact that the cause of our CD interest cannot be seen under a microscope or detected as a color change in a test tube, does NOT make it a voluntary choice.

As long as we take care to harm no one, no one has the right to tell what to wear, how to do our hair or how to decorate our faces.

To accept anything less is to accept a step on the road toward Talibanism.

[Ronda_B]

Most of us MtF CDers are fully genetically male. I would suspect that the same ratios exist among TS people. Sure, there are intersex conditions that are the result of chromosomal and/or hormonal anomalies, but they are not present in the vast majority of CDers.

That doesn't mean that we have a choice about being the way we are. The fact that the cause of our CD interest cannot be seen under a microscope or detected as a color change in a test tube, does NOT make it a voluntary choice.

As long as we take care to harm no one, no one has the right to tell what to wear, how to do our hair or how to decorate our faces.

To accept anything less is to accept a step on the road toward Talibanism.

I have read somewhere that when the fetus is developing and the sex hasn't been determined yet, that the brain developes first and the sex it determined there ie... female brain....male brain. If there are too much of one or the other chromizones the brain develops both sides and the body becomes which ever is more dominate. I'm no scientist but this does make sense to me.

[Ronda_B]

first off the "wife" should have told her husband ....... something like that is not to be kept secrete and hope it never gets found out .....

now the break room i have talked abought gender issues with quite a few people that had no idea abought a lot of it ...what i found is small bites work well .... see we would love to just tell every one abought this life style and gain acceptance from all (or at lest most) ........ but small bite of info that can be chewed and digested .... are cool ....

over all i think you did a good job .....

Thank you Wendy for your comments. This is the first post that I have done that got more the 5 replys.

[Rosaliy Lynne]

generally digestible bits work well. Gives someone a 'bit' to think about. If the door opens even a little 'bit', a little 'bit' more can be advanced. In this way minds and mindsets are changed gradually and the closed mind may open without their owner even knowing it.

The TS wife SHOULD most definitely let on early in the relationship, WELL BEFORE marriage, of her trans-gender status. Right now there is a trust question in that relationship.

As for abnormalities, I am not sure being CD has much to do with anything abnormal. Your physical body is a result of the genes decoding one way or the other. Gender identity has to do with the internal chemical balances that develope. As these lean heavier away from birth gender attributes, you tend to exhibit more "opposite" gender behaviors.

Since we are all born with attributes that are a mix of male and female, this seems to me normal and the best way to explain - lacking a better means - who we are and who we feel we are. Having said that let me suggest that internal chemical balances are roughly analgous to wiring. TS people are wired 180 degrees out of phase with their body.. Surgery and suicide are the only known cures for that. Before surgical options were available, I strongly suspect that a great many suicides were because of this and an inability to understand and/or explain how/why they were different than anyone else.

btw: I do NOT advocate suicide. That is a poor choice and does nothing good for anyone.

Anyway, we are who we are as a result of a mix of things including birth gender, wiring and life experiences.

for what it's worth.

[Zee]

An arguement can be made that people who are cd/tg find it difficult to assimilate within their natural environment.

Let me put it this way.

It is always a choice to become a cd/tg physically. However, mentally is a different story. A person can not choose how they feel about something. They can deny their feelings and hope the thought goes away (which can lead to long term effects such as intolerance, depression, anxiety, stress), but the feeling is still there. Much the same way a male who has no wish to dress or become transgendered has no choice about that feeling, so to do those who feel that they need to do it. A person who feels passionately about rock climbing wouldn't deny this feeling and would act on it. Likewise a person who dislikes rock climbing wouldn't feel anything about it. So too are cd/tg people. Crossdressing is a need to fullfill within oneself, an outlet of passion.

The stereotypical stygma of crossdressing and intolerant nature of people based on societal "norms" are at odds with those people who buy into those norms. The problem isn't that crossdressing is abnormal (which it isn't). The problem is that our society focuses so much energy on being male or female based on the gender one was assigned at birth that it leaves barely any room for males who have a need to express their femininity outwardly. This tendancy makes males who have feminin feelings hypocrites, constantly hiding their feelings and keeping their outward emotions stoic.

When a crossdresser is liberated from the social pressures to behave a certain way, that person becomes more human and is able to become one with themself. People who have done this tend to lead productive lives.

When you are finally comfortable within your own skin, your attentions, affections, passions and work become more intense and productive and you enjoy life in all its beauty.

If the person who underwent gender reassignment is truely happy about what she did, then there was no choice at all. This was something that had to be done in order to become a human being, and no one can take that away.

Granted, this person should have outed herself to her SO, which indicates that she wasn't fully comfortable with the situation, but no judge has the right to say how one should feel. The only real choice this person had was to be fourthright about what had happend to her SO. Although honesty is a choice, being happy about yourself isn't.