It's just clothes!

[LaFem]

Thanks again Tree, your reply was great. Many times men do not want to accept what a big deal their crossdressing is to their wives and family. Of course there is a sexual component to dressing and acting like a woman. What else would you call it? What else could you call it? How could you possibly deny it?

I see too much "I" and not enough "her." It sounds like someone needs to send the acceptance and tolerance and understanding to the poor woman. Many of us on this forum seek advice on how to gain your SO's understanding and acceptance. Often times it seems to be lessons in spousal manipulation. (Sickening)

If your wife cannot accept your feminine side, well, deal with it and make some changes. If you don't want to lose your family, stay in the closet! Simple! Force the issue and you'll be alone. And don't be mean about it, it's not her fault!

Hey Jess- I understand exactly how you feel, your frustration is totally understandable. I hope some of the "girls" on this forum read and re-read your post. You nailed it.

[TerriM]

I told my wife 25yrs ago after 10yrs of marriage. She still doesnt want to talk about it. But I get out about 1 or 2x if I am lucky a month. The answer for me is balancing the two sides of me. It has been difficult at times, but it can be done. You have to realize that most women do not like their men to look like women. I go away each year to Fantasia fair for 3 days and nights. She hates me going away but we work things out.

Yours Terri

[christina marie]

(scooting over) c'mon in hon,closets a little tight,but it sure is comfy!

[Wendy me]

Staycee hugs first .... my wife knows abought my dressing totally unsupportive ...if it was just clothes god that would be so easy lol.... some times i want to scream your killing me .... see half of me (some times more sometimes less ) is Wendy and she (my wife ) is clue less to that.. i love her truly i do ...

i wonder if our SO'S truly took the time to know more abought this would so many turn a cold shoulder / be accepting??? i hope and i dream that one day my wife understands more of who this person she dose not know and how much this part of me is part of who we are together ..... and i pray for every one out there that ... one day the rest of the world might just get it we are not some freak show but we are your lovers , your family , your Friends , your coworkers .... we are as normal as the rest of the world .... that we belong and we are ok....

i will keep you in my thoughts .....

[MJ]

Go read this http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=67279

If that doesn't break your heart, nothing will.

And if you believe it is "just clothes" then you really are in a denial that I would be proud to call my own. Face it, crossdressing is a very intimate thing that involves sex and attraction - to varying degrees, of course, but still a factor.

Could it be, and I'm just going out on a limb here, that for whatever reason your wife is perceiving the dressing, your woman within, is more important to you than she? Have you jumped at every opportunity to immerse yourself in the TG community and your femme self while she stands by and continues holding the home fort?

For one week, just one week, make every effort to show by action that your wife and family is the love of your life and no wig, garter or g-string is more precious. Say that one sentence to her, and that's all, but walk the walk for a week. Live it, don't just say it. I'd bet good money her rejection will ease if not subside.

I don't think you all realize just how much your behavior does change. You go about the motions of your daily lives but you start changing things - shaving, eyebrows, posture, reading materials, etc. Admittedly it could be a perception and over sensitivity by the wife but I believe it's a combination of both. We start looking for changes, and darned if we don't find them.

IMO - it is up to the crossdresser to keep this on a positive, non-threatening note. Wives usually don't want to control you, but they want to be confident that your piorities are still in line with their's. Breastforms full steam ahead does not instill a feeling of fun or well being for most wives.

this is so true thank you tree , somehow there must be a way to show our S.O that they are more important than the clothes

but come on tree ***shaving, eyebrows, posture, reading materials, etc *** comes with the Territory don't you think .. balance is the key

[Tree GG]

Admittedly it could be a perception and over sensitivity by the wife but I believe it's a combination of both. We start looking for changes, and darned if we don't find them.

Don't forget that part.....I fully accept my share of the irritation in the relationship. Takes two to succeed & two to fail. But there is change and since "he" brought me into this particular change, it's "he" that needs to accept the responsibility of how he introduces and maintains those changes. Either with me or apart from me (and family). And if I don't like or feel uncomfortable with something, I have the obligation to speak up (hopefully without resentment). If I don't, it festers and I'll see "her" as the cause of my turmoil and out she goes.

Figuritively, it's unfair to redecorate my house to look like his closet. Would he take kindly of me coming into his closet & rearranging it? Don't even want to go there!

[Jamie001]

It is also not the fault of the crossdresser that s/he is a crossdresser! Also, for many CDs it is not sexual. I CD to be at peace with myself and to relax. It is like taking a vacation to de-stress. There are two big fallacies that we must loose:

1. Guys that CD are Gay. (FALSE)
2. Guys that CD do it for sexual gratification. (FALSE) Some CD do it for sexual gratification, but a lot of them do it to relax.

Don't you think that if the person could just flip a switch and turn-off the CDing that he would just do it in order not to cause strife for his wife and family? It is not that simple!! It is like being left-handed or being gay. It is part of your core being. Asking someone to completely suppress a major part of their personality can only result in severe depression. Believe me I have been there and would never go there again! It is dangerous to completely suppress this part of your personality.

Thanks again Tree, your reply was great. Many times men do not want to accept what a big deal their crossdressing is to their wives and family. Of course there is a sexual component to dressing and acting like a woman. What else would you call it? What else could you call it? How could you possibly deny it?

I see too much "I" and not enough "her." It sounds like someone needs to send the acceptance and tolerance and understanding to the poor woman. Many of us on this forum seek advice on how to gain your SO's understanding and acceptance. Often times it seems to be lessons in spousal manipulation. (Sickening)

If your wife cannot accept your feminine side, well, deal with it and make some changes. If you don't want to lose your family, stay in the closet! Simple! Force the issue and you'll be alone. And don't be mean about it, it's not her fault!

Hey Jess- I understand exactly how you feel, your frustration is totally understandable. I hope some of the "girls" on this forum read and re-read your post. You nailed it.

[Rhonda Jean]

[QUOTE=StayceeCD;1014581]"I'm the one with the problem".. QUOTE]

I heard the exact same thing. You may want to read my recent posts. Good luck. Big decisions ahead.

[erickka]

Staycee, Been there done that. I still deal with those same problems. Be strong and focused, and hopefully everything will settle to a point that you can cope with.

[LaFem]

I like to dress like the opposite sex.
I like to dress like a woman from the inside out.
I wear artificial breasts.
I wear women's makeup.
I shave my legs and all my body.
I like to act like the opposite sex.
I like to act like a woman.
I try to feel like the opposite sex.
I try to feel like a female.

All of the above are true for me.

Does anyone agree with any or all of what I have just said above?
Does anyone else see that each line has a sexual component?
It seems to me that the "sexual component" of crossdressing is the biggest part of crossdresssing, at least I can't find a way take it out of the definition. (My definition: Crossdresser- A man who dresses like a woman and acts like a woman, at some level.)

How can crossdressing be defined without using sexual terms? The fact that a man dresses like a woman is the essence of crossdressing and is itself a sexual component.

Does it make sense that a wife or SO might see the obvious "sexual component?" Does it make sense that the SO might worry about their partner's true sexuality? Do you think she wonders what you are thinking about when you are fully dressed? (Yes!) Does it make sense that a GG might NOT enjoy or NOT be willing to accept crossdressing as part of a relationship?

I have lots of experience with all aspects of SO crossdressing relationships. I've been there too. I have learned the hard way also.

Many people on this forum have had to make adjustments to their crossdressing because their SOs cannot accept it. There are lots of ways to work around this. Members of this forum do it all the time.

Just as you cannot change your gender issues Staycee, your wife probably cannot change either. If you push your agenda, you may end up with no wife, or you may end up with an angry, disgruntled, falsely accepting spouse. Children and family are strong factors for a woman to feign acceptance of her husband's crossdressing, and
keep a marriage together, even though she hates it. You are in a tough spot Staycee, but you can find a solution.

Good Luck!

[sfwarbonnet]

I read an article on what is accommodation in InsideMS Magazine (Multiple Sclerosis). I think men should be as comfortable wearing women’s clothes as women are in wearing men’s clothing. After all, it's just clothes, right? I usually wear women's clothes in "boy mode," and am comfortable doing so, as women's clothing often offers suitable accommodations for men who are handicapped. Through experience I have found the following:

!) Slacks: Women’s pull on pants are much easier to put on than men’s belted pants. They do not need a fake fly, as the absence of it is usually not apparent, but I prefer non-figured and solid color, non-pastel pants so they are not readily identified as women’s clothing.

2) Briefs: Underwear with a fly is unnecessary with pull on pants. Although there are no-fly men’s briefs, women’s full-cut cotton briefs work just as well, and are cheaper.

3) Slips: Shirttails tend to readily pull out of pull on pants and a bare back is usually uncomfortable when seated. A “solution” is to wear a tank top full slip that is short enough to be worn with slacks. Also they are usually made of a slippery material that makes it easier to pull on pants.

Another lingerie option is an all-in-one shaper with a crotch closure to preclude a pulled out shirttail. Since briefers usually include a bra, finding a large size with a small cup is a challenge so the bra isn't apparent under a shirt.

4) Pantyhose: An MD suggested that I wear support pantyhose to avoid the indentation in my lower legs that mid-calf or knee-high socks make. Pantyhose do not require anything that is not also needed with pull on pants. I expected that opaque ones would be best, so they wouldn't be readily identified as women's hosery, but that isn't necessary and non-opaque pantyhose are more available (especially in summer). I have both off-black and beige nylons.

Another hosiery option is support thigh-highs, but they need to be worn with an equally hard-to-find garter belt, which may be lacy and/or part of a short skirt. However, since a garter belt is an undergarment, feminine characteristics really don’t matter and I would be wearing women’s hosiery and a slip anyway.

5) Skirts: I noted with the short skirt on a garder belt that it is much easier to put on a one holer (skirt) than a two holer (pants) but a skirt would be an outer garment and is not usually part of a male’s wardrobe, so it would need to look like pants when the wearer is seated. I haven’t found a suitable one yet.

6) Purse: Keeping a wallet, comb, notepad, phone, and keys in pants pockets is awkward as it is hard to extract them when seated, and pockets in women’s pull on pants are often not very deep anyway. My “solution” is to use a small shoulder purse, which can either be worn or secured in a basket when that is available.

I posted these suggestions on a forum for for ideas for those with Multi[le Sclerosis. I have summarized the results therefrom as they may be relevant to other CDers..

1) A few people thought that my suggestion for men to wear women's clothkng as an accommodation was "interesting" znd agreed that there is gender discrimination in what is "appropriate" clothing. Some people found the same "problems" that my accommodations addressed, but they suggested alternative solutions that they found more PC.

2) Women posted repiies sayings that they found restrictive clothes uncomfortable. A post confirmed that it is often necessary for both men and women to wear over-the-knee support nylons for swolen lower legs. Also, exposed skin can "stick" to a chair, and that is s uncomfortable.

3) However, the overwhelming response asserted that my motivation was an attempt to justify cross-dressing and that men should only wear menswear and avoid "girl things". Apparently society is not ready to accept a man wearing women's clothing, although they can offer "solutions" for difficulty due to limited flexibility, lousy balance, exposed skin, and swelling of the legs.

Jamie

[sobe1ove GG]

Please... I can't believe you would say they are just clothes and that she shouldn't have a problem.

If they were just clothes, then you wouldn't need to wear them. Obviously she can tell that you need them and that the clothes have bigger meaning. Don't belittle her feelings like that, sheesh.

[Colleentg]

This is a hot topic and it seems to affect so many in the same boat. I was married to a semi-accepting female until she 'got tired of it' and wanted her man back. To put it in a nutshell, I lost everything and more to grant a divorce from her. All I got to keep was my wardrobe! I thought I wanted her more than the clothes, but in truth, I didn't. While I was married, I purged everything three times. But it always came back. If you took all my clothes, it would not change how feminine I feel inside. Clothes can be replaced. You cannot change the person who wears them. If you're wondering, I made several sacrifices. For one, I have not seen my daughter for over eight years. She accepts her step-dad as her real dad. I'm no longer a part of her life. Of course there is that void in my life, but my happiness comes before anything else. I've accepted defeat.

[battybattybats]

Don't forget that part.....I fully accept my share of the irritation in the relationship. Takes two to succeed & two to fail. But there is change and since "he" brought me into this particular change, it's "he" that needs to accept the responsibility of how he introduces and maintains those changes. Either with me or apart from me (and family). And if I don't like or feel uncomfortable with something, I have the obligation to speak up (hopefully without resentment). If I don't, it festers and I'll see "her" as the cause of my turmoil and out she goes.

Figuritively, it's unfair to redecorate my house to look like his closet. Would he take kindly of me coming into his closet & rearranging it? Don't even want to go there!

That is still, in existential terms, bad faith.
You and only you can be responsible for how you handle the choices and actions of others. It's casting blame and/or responsibility upon the CD for being a CD and for your own reactions to external changes. People have a moral duty to recognise and accept and tolerate the differences, different choices and different circumstances of others, not just even if they are close loved ones but especially if they are close loved ones.

Yes it's difficult for people to do but everyone has an obligation to do so. Some people aren't capable of some moral or ethical actions, that doesn't make it any less wrong not to do so though. Many people leave their partners when their partners become disabled or when their looks fade or when they gain weight. Quite a few don't. Many people try and force others to wear certain clothes or buy certain products or follow certain religious beliefs or a whole cornacopia of things. Quite a few don't.

It doesn't matter if it's clothes or eating habits or belief or how one votes. It should be simple. It should be easy to accept. It isn't though. Who has never judged another on such pathetic shallow things as clothing or skin colour or gender or job or income or IQ or attractiveness? To be human is to exist with a limited mentality that works by making swift short-cuts. It was a neccessary survival mechanism when we had to deal with sabre-toothed cats. But it is totally incompatable with advanced notions of fairness, of right and wrong and so we must stretch our thinking, our capacity and we must always fight the lazy and inaccurate ways of thinking that form the basis of all bigotry. We must also remind ourselves that humans are flawed, that we make mistakes.

I listened to a very good program on radio today about forgiveness in South Africa following the atrocities during apartheid. There was a really good point made about how people were able to do horrible things to other people because they were able to de-humanise them, to label them as 'other'. The point was made that by simply calling such atrocities 'evil', by just considering the perpetrators of such crimes 'inhuman' we make them 'other' and we can turn a blind eye to our own reflection.

Tribal thinking.. CDs Vs GGs.. it's emotional, it's rhetorical.. it's evil.
Where has gone simple empathy and compassion?

Crossdressers? Yes we are an oppressed and maligned minority and we have every right to be who we are and no-one... no one has a right or a good reason to oppress us. Neither do they have a right or reason to hate, dislike fear or resent us... but it's human to do so. There aren't any good reasons I've yet heard for people to reject or fail to accept crossdressers either. 'It's hard' sure it is, 'it's not normal' it is very different. I'm sure plenty of white parents whose daughter brought a black man home to dinner wen't through similar emotions.
Significant Others? Yes you were lied to by your upbringing. You were lied to by Sleeping Beauty and Snow White and Cinderella and everything else that showed you what to aim for, what to expect. Prince Charming didn't wear stockings and suspenders in the fairy tale. Then for many you were lied to by someone you care about more than anyone else in the world. Someone who was suposed to be the focus of your life. Your anchor and your foundation. The thing that was supposed to complete you. Whether you were lied to or not still there is that person who has shattered the illusion and shown you that the world is not how you always thought it would be.

Now, everyone go back and re-read the paragraph that applies to their partner. Think about your partner for a second. Imagine what it must be like to be in those circumstances.
GG's, it doesn't matter why he needs to dress just think how horrible and tough it must be to be so desperatly alone and different in a world that has hated that difference for so long that they felt they had to hide. Not that they wanted to but felt they had to or no-one would ever love them, no one would ever care about them.
CD's it's true that you deserve to be free to be who you are, it's true that you should be loved unconditionally... but that's not easy to do. The lies and fear that have oppressed you are the lies and fears that oppress her. The social conditioning that led you to hide, to perhaps scrounge amongst a relatives clothes at first or that made it scary to buy a simple pair of panties, the forces that drive people to 'fit in' that caused so much shame and resentment and purges and likely led you years before you dared even tell yourself you were a crossdresser all that which you have been struggling with for all those years are still operating on her. It's not easy.

It's just too easy to be angry at the other side, to think they have it easy, to think they are selfish, to think that it is their fault. Their fault for bringing it into the relationship.. their fault for not accepting.. their fault for lying... their fault for not understanding... this is all a cop-out, an excuse of self-justification to avoid the personal responsibility for compassion and understanding.

There is not one side who are victims.. both sides are. Neither side is the enemy and neither side is at fault. There is one cause: A hostile and bigoted culture that has demonised and ostracised a significant yet harmless minority and driven them into hiding. This same culture has left all these women unprepared for the possibility that there may be straight men who will love them but who like dressing like women sometimes. The solution? Compassion, knowledge, patience, understanding, advocacy, activism, change.

[Veronica Fallon]

Wow, quite a powerful point you so eloquently made "BattyBats"! I see it as society being the arrogant, egotistical, (but weak & frightened) Army General, who's calling the shots from a safe, protected place, while we (CD's and S/O's) are the hapless grunts on the front lines. It doesn't matter how many of us get destroyed, as long as the General is able to maintain his illusions of normality, piety, & superiority.

Thank you Bats,

Veronica

[Lilith Moon]

Batty,

I'm speechless. Thank you and hope you don't mind me printing out a copy for reference.

[Mitch23]

All the real girls I've met have no problem at all with my crossdressing and are very supportive ... but then they don't have to live with it. They can pat me on the head and hand me back - my wife has to live with it and its consequences for her, our relationship, friends family and neighbours ...

Mitch

[Lisa-like]

I'm so sorry to read about your situation with you wife. So many of us struggle with the need to be seen, the need to express our true selves openly to those we love and to the world. Your gender, your "maleness" is comforting to your wife. The expression of your sexuality scares her. But I think people make the mistake of separating gender and sexuality. They're all wrapped together in all kinds of different variations. You're still genetically male, and your sexuality -- which has always included your strong yearning to be female -- was there from the beginning of your relationship. I hope you can stay true to your real self and find ever more ways to express yourself, and with a little luck your loved ones will hopefully realize that their love for you includes not only your gender but your sexuality.

[Rachell]

Tree GG,
Well said, you must keep some balance even with an accepting wife. I can feel when mine is not in the mood for my dressing, dosn't happen much but you can tell. So a little advice to Staceecd is to keep some balance.
Rachell

Go read this http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=67279

If that doesn't break your heart, nothing will.

And if you believe it is "just clothes" then you really are in a denial that I would be proud to call my own. Face it, crossdressing is a very intimate thing that involves sex and attraction - to varying degrees, of course, but still a factor.

Could it be, and I'm just going out on a limb here, that for whatever reason your wife is perceiving the dressing, your woman within, is more important to you than she? Have you jumped at every opportunity to immerse yourself in the TG community and your femme self while she stands by and continues holding the home fort?

For one week, just one week, make every effort to show by action that your wife and family is the love of your life and no wig, garter or g-string is more precious. Say that one sentence to her, and that's all, but walk the walk for a week. Live it, don't just say it. I'd bet good money her rejection will ease if not subside.

I don't think you all realize just how much your behavior does change. You go about the motions of your daily lives but you start changing things - shaving, eyebrows, posture, reading materials, etc. Admittedly it could be a perception and over sensitivity by the wife but I believe it's a combination of both. We start looking for changes, and darned if we don't find them.

IMO - it is up to the crossdresser to keep this on a positive, non-threatening note. Wives usually don't want to control you, but they want to be confident that your piorities are still in line with their's. Breastforms full steam ahead does not instill a feeling of fun or well being for most wives.

[battybattybats]

Batty,

I'm speechless. Thank you and hope you don't mind me printing out a copy for reference.

By all means.
Just as long as it isn't for publication, I'd want to rewrite it a little and neaten it up a mite if it were.

[Rosaliy Lynne]

By all means.
Just as long as it isn't for publication, I'd want to rewrite it a little and neaten it up a mite if it were.

it is properly clear as it is. A blind person can read it and understand.

(ok so it would have to be in braille)

[Satrana]

Where has gone simple empathy and compassion?

They were thrown out of the window when the point scoring began.

this is all a cop-out, an excuse of self-justification to avoid the personal responsibility for compassion and understanding.

Taking personal responsibility is the hard way as it means you have to acknowledge your own faults and change yourself. Why bother when you can take the easy route and just blame the other person as a selfish loser and sit back and bask in self-righteousness.

Good post!

[sfwarbonnet]

Go read this http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=67279

If that doesn't break your heart, nothing will.

And if you believe it is "just clothes" then you really are in a denial that I would be proud to call my own. Face it, crossdressing is a very intimate thing that involves sex and attraction - to varying degrees, of course, but still a factor.

Could it be, and I'm just going out on a limb here, that for whatever reason your wife is perceiving the dressing, your woman within, is more important to you than she? Have you jumped at every opportunity to immerse yourself in the TG community and your femme self while she stands by and continues holding the home fort?

For one week, just one week, make every effort to show by action that your wife and family is the love of your life and no wig, garter or g-string is more precious. Say that one sentence to her, and that's all, but walk the walk for a week. Live it, don't just say it. I'd bet good money her rejection will ease if not subside.

I don't think you all realize just how much your behavior does change. You go about the motions of your daily lives but you start changing things - shaving, eyebrows, posture, reading materials, etc. Admittedly it could be a perception and over sensitivity by the wife but I believe it's a combination of both. We start looking for changes, and darned if we don't find them.

IMO - it is up to the crossdresser to keep this on a positive, non-threatening note. Wives usually don't want to control you, but they want to be confident that your piorities are still in line with their's. Breastforms full steam ahead does not instill a feeling of fun or well being for most wives.

This is indeed a sad story, but I can see how it can happen, particularily if a spouse unexpectedly finds women's clothes, and they exceed her limits. I would describe my wife as reluctant, and it it virtually impossible to discuss this matter with her. As a result, I CD in "boy mode" and ask her to buy women's clothes for me. I wear a slip and support pantyhose (or support thigh highs and a garter belt) several times a week, but I asked for panties, and she sail hello no! Ah ha, a limit, as would be impersonating a female and appearing with her en femme. I am wearing a bra now, as she is at work, but it will come off later - I'll keep the slip and pantyhose on though.

[Tree GG]

Batty,

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Yes, I believe he and he alone is responsible for how he expresses his CDness. He didn't ask to be CD, he didn't ask to be born at all, but there it is. How he expresses it is his choice. My choice is whether to accompany him on that expressive journey.

I take exception to you insinuating that my "problem" with CDing is a socially based construction and my husband should be free to do whatever he wants to make himself happy and the rest of the world should go along la-dee-da with him just because he wants it. In a perfect world, maybe. In the real world, not likely.

I am a closet naturist (I like to run topless in the woods, OK?) By your reasoning I should be allowed that freedom in the supermarket, at a school function or in my profession. But I'm NOT an exhibitionist or nudist. When it's super hot, and I'm alone with nature, I like the freedom and feeling of nearly total nudity. I don't have to do it in front of everyone or anyone to express myself and enjoy the feeling. Expressing it for myself when appropriate and comfortable is enough.

Also, I do not require that my husband follow me around spouting how wonderful it is that I am topless. Quite frankly, he's afraid of it - feels it may lessen the importance of nudity for intimate purposes so doesn't approve. (Now who's the prude? ) Do I stop? Do I scold him and scorn him for not feeling what I feel? Do I label him as unsupporting or unaccepting for not jumping in and playing along as well? NO. This is my thing - and expecting him to validate my actions for me is absurd. Same with his CDing. However, out of courtesy for his feeling, I do tone it down and try not to overdo it. I don't feel that is oppressive or unfair to me - it's a choice I make out of consideration for his feelings.

In a perfect world we could all do whatever the heck we felt like and everyone would feel the same. But then where's the challenge in that? Then there'd be nothing to rebel against by crossdressing or how would the young buck the establishment and on and on. I simply do not agree that all social constructs and restrictions are bad. Many are wrong, but requiring everyone to accept unconditionally and approve of everything is in some ways taking away as much individuality as suprressing the thoughts/ideas you disapprove of.

[Carin's Wife GG]

this board wouldn't even be needed. As an SO I found your post insulting and demeaning to your wife.

BOTH of you need understanding for the other person.


Louise.