i have got something i would love to ask,does anyone out there know if its a sin to crossdress? cannot find anything in the bible any were.any help please.
i have got something i would love to ask,does anyone out there know if its a sin to crossdress? cannot find anything in the bible any were.any help please.
I would have to say yes. We are trying to be something different then what we were born.
Originally Posted by barbra
Conservatives often use the verse that says something along the lines of a man not to wear what pertains to a woman. So if that is the case, every pants wearing women is living in sin. This is in Deuteronomy. If I recall correctly this same book says to wear tassels on each corner of your robe, as well not to mix cotten and wool. So, how does this all work?
I was listening to Christian radio one day flipping through the channels and this caller asked about his wife wearing pants and if she is sinning. This caller even brought up the scripture in Deuteronomy. The host of the program assured him his wife was not sinning and that was the "old law" which was done away with. Ironically from my experience most church members are not at all accepting of cd's.
Is it a sin? I would have to say no. It's called self expression. So unless you have some harmful intent I don't believe so. Of course that is just my opinion.
Women who wear pants and skirts are shocked, just shocked a husband would do the same thing.
For a more in depth discussion, consider joining the religious section of the forum where all are welcome to discuss thier views at length, whether they are believers in a specific faith or not.
Those that ground their distaste for crossdressing in Biblical verse, cite Deuteronomy 22:5 where it seems relevant to some. It is irrelevant to me as I explain here. Others of faith have different views, and have various interpretations about how best to comply. For example some feel it is relevant, but feel Ok with themselves if they are only enjoying the feelings of the fabrics, and not presenting as women. Some feel it applies fully and suffer sincere pan of guilt over their dressing. Some are OK with items that mimic those that they are attracted to, but still are male items, say a scottish kilt, or male nylon bikini briefs. I think the question is well worth asking yourself and arriving at some place that feels harmonious to you.
I would encourage you to prayerfully consider whether a loving God has any specific clothing preferences, and if so, which era do you suppose he finds the most pleasing?
Best and most sincere wishes in your quest for truth.
Last edited by BarbaraTalbot; 09-27-2007 at 03:58 AM.
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I think that the best response I can give is a letter that I saw someone write to Dr. Laura. This person was doing a tongue in cheek look at taking the words in the Bible literally. Spirituality is a personal thing, for me acceptance of my femme side and cross dressing has ended a cycle of self hate that has gone on for over 4 decades. Internally, I know that it is right, there is a peace within that I feel in the context of my dressing that tells me this. I believe that whatever spiritual energy created us meant us to be this way and to explore and experience the wonder of it all.
Here is the letter:
Dear Dr Laura
I am taking the easy way out this week and quoting someone else (at
least for part of the column!) because I think their piece is rather
clever. But first some essential background:
Dr Laura Schlessinger is a US talk-show "personality", in the words of the
Seattle Times a "gabby, anti-gay radio dominatrix with a compulsive
need to spank her listeners".
And what makes "Dr Laura" (as she likes to be called) worthy of note? The
Seattle Times again: "When Paramount Studios last year gave famed
disciplinarian Dr Laura Schlessinger the go-ahead for a TV show, the
syndicator surely never imagined what would ensue."
And what did ensue? "Coast-to-coast demonstrations. A boycott of Procter &
Gamble Co, which will advertise on Dr. Laura. Public objections
within Paramount from its many gay employees."
The reason for all this activism is "Dr Laura's diatribes against
homosexuality — she has likened it to bestiality, paedophilia and incest,
and called gays `biological errors'."
Like the Pope, Dr Laura is all for "traditional values" and she too refers
her listeners to the Bible to back up her simplistic hate message.
The Internet Antifascist reprinted a charming little piece by
Deborah Mokma in the form of a letter to the good doctor. They did not
acknowledge a source but it clearly originates in the US.
Any way, here it is:
Dear Dr Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have
learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as
many people as I can.
When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I
simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an
abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific
laws and how to best follow them. When I burn a bull on the altar as a
sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev.
1:9).
The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them.
How should I deal with this?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for
her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period
of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are
around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not
Canadians. Can you clarify?
I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination
(Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.I don't
agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 20:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have
a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can
help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.
What stop do I get off at? Hmmm...
A lot of it depends on your spirituality. We have discussed Deuteronomy 22:5 in the past on the religious Forum. It has mostly to do with the men and women in the ancient nation of Isreal and the roles they were expected to fill. The clothing had a lot to do with their identity in that respect. Expressing part of who we are inside is what a lot of it is about. How that affects us and those we know and love has a large bearing on how we feel about it sometimes.
I'm probably going to upset a few people here.I hope not and I'm really sorry if I do. This is just my view below:
I've come to believe that religion (and there's lots of them) - is a bit like fast food stores. It's all the same really but each one is selling something different.
In ancient times in Europe, religion was used to control the masses/peasants (I think they're still at it all over the world now actually)
Which is basically "do what we tell you or you're not going to heaven!"
As far as I'm concerned if you're a good person, help others and never hurt anyone, then your place is assured - and it doesn't matter if you don't go to church, or don't get baptised, or don't observe Ramadam, or don't pray to Mecca ten times a day, or don't do what the pope tells you to do, or don't say three hail Marys and two our fathers............see what I mean about controling the peasants?
So don't worry if the bible says you can't cross dress ..just be good, kind and happy...
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone and I'll see you up there !
I don't think so hun
Angie
There is no sin in crossdressing. There may be a sin if you try to pass yourself off as a member of the opposite sex in order to defraud/deceive others but how often does that happen?
There is far more deception/defrauding going off amongst the "normals" of this world.
I'm not sure where it is written but I have seen a quote along the lines of it will be a sin not to take the pleasures that God places in our lives. (All those Puritans in Limbo or worse!!!)
God (or Goddess (or both!), or the universe, or the force, or whoever/whatever) puts us on this earth to learn and grow and love each other-not necessarily in the Biblical sense-not to hide ourselves and cling to the outmoded past.
Sure some looking back and recognising the achievements of our predecessors is necessary-those who don't recognise the past are doomed to repeat it (?)- but looking forward , changing, and growing is our birthright and our obligation.
Lifes hard enough as it is without seeing sin in everything thats fun and pleasurable.
First harm none (including yourself! Something I think is forgotten by a lot of people who put themselves through sorrow, and heartache-I include myself here on occasion), then go forth, grow and have fun.
Stella
I so totally agree with you on that outlook.
Wow those are some pretty deep insights there. They could bring up some real hair raising debates in todays day and age.
We may be trying to be something different but it has nothing to do with being a sin.
A chameleon changes color to protect itself from prey. Is that a wrong? The biggest difference is crossdressers usually have to man first and then lady behind closed doors most of the time.
We were born naked, and were taught what to be, what not, what to wear and what not.
Nobody asked us for our opinion, feelings, or if it does represent us.
If there is a God, he made me how I supposed to be in his view. It's neither my nor his fault that society messed it up.
It have been men who have written something down, and its men that try to figure out since 2000-3000 years what the meaning might be of what they have written. Almost everybody has a different opinion/interpretation there; this tells something.
Last edited by Marla S; 09-27-2007 at 10:23 AM.
Well said noname...
I would think that its not the denomnation, looks, money, or social circles that get you in to heaven, its the personal relationship you have with your God...
Seems many have forgotten that the New Covenant (New Testament) (known as the Covenant of Christianity) was meant to replace the Old Covenant (known as the Covenant of Slaves).
See Hebrews 8, and in particular verse 13 "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."
Luke 22:20 "In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."
Additionally, it seems that there has always been problems associated with translating ancient Hebrew, for various reasons. For example, the word for man could mean exactly "man" or another word for man could mean human. Like man can not live on bread alone. Does than mean woman can live on bread alone but man cannot, or does it mean humans can not live on bread alone. Of course it means human.
In Deuteronomy 22:5 The word man, in both the first and last part of Deut 22:5, is the Hebrew word geber meaning “man, strong man, or warrior (emphasizing strength or ability to fight).”
It is important to note that this is not the only word for man in Hebrew. Verse 13 of this very same chapter uses the Hebrew word 'iysh, which is also translated man and means just that – “man, male (in contrast to woman, female).”
It is apparent that Moses, when writing Deut 22:5, was quite intentionally not talking about a man in general, but a very specific kind of man – namely, a warrior or soldier. Considering this, perhaps a better translation of this verse would be as follows:
“A (woman or weak/frail man) shall not be made to put on the weapons/armor of a warrior, neither shall a warrior wear the robes of a (weak/frail man or woman), for all that do so are an abomination unto the LORD thy God.”
Translators commonly render keliy as weapon, armor or instrument in the Old Testament.
This web site that tries to go through the steps of explaining a translation.
http://throughthecracks.org/Deut21_5.html
DonnaT
What is "sin"... Simply a judgment of one, compared by another, from there own point of view. Religious or not, there are many religions. Personally i think a sin is when you devalue or hurt another purposefully, because i think that god is all things, and in everybody, to hurt another is to make a statement to all that is, i don't like this part of you, and then you damage your connection to god. I dont see how dressing can be a sin in any way, you are not hurting anyone, if anything, people that even question it are the ones doing the sin. If you feel guilt or shame for your dressing, then you are doing a sin against yourself, you are only hurting yourself, because you are judging only you. If one feels they are hiding a part of themselves, thus cutting themselves off from there connection to god, if you believe that, it is so...but i don't think it is true, only because what one feels at the moments of the now, is what they are, everyone doesn't have to know all that you can possibly feel, you can just feel it. If i go out when i am dressed, and am closed off to everyone, then that is a sin, if i go out dressed and am open to everyone, and feel love in my heart for everyone, that is not a sin, for what i feel in my heart resonates peace and love for everyone. It matters not what you have on, or how you present yourself, it is what is in your heart that matters, one has to be able to look in the mirror, and love what they see in order to be happy within themselves to feel openess in your heart, for yourself and for others. There is nothing in this world that you can feel inside that is a sin, unless it is pointed at another.
Feel what you want to feel, enjoy it, because you can, dont judge yourself, others can judge you, but they only hurt themselves, if you dont hate them for doing it. When you dress, enjoy it fully!! if you only want to do it alone, so be it, keep your heart open, when you change back, express then what you will for the publics happyness, you can be anything you want to be in this world, and at any time you feel fit, its only a sin if your heart is closed, to yourself, or others.
thats what i love about you ladys,you have wisdom and knowlage that some of us lack a little bit of.dont get me wrong i love my crossdressing its a new world for me when i get to dress.my wife tells me that i am not normal and that i am sick in the head i need a doctor to check me out.
That's not very nice. I hope she will change her mind.
Maybe it could help if she would have something to read about TG written by some doctors, aka gender specialists.
YES, YES, A THOUSAND TIMES YES! according to my mother, a (self-proclaimed) expert on the subject of sins!
I generally agree. I believe in God and an afterlife, but really, who am I to say which of the hundreds of religions are right? I mean, there really COULD be a flying spaghetti monster out there somewhere. Thus, I believe about the same: Live a good life, have a good afterlife. Besides, the bible specifically says the only person without sin was Jesus, thus he accepts we are all sinners.
Anyway, on crossdressing, very few, actually probably no one follows the old testament to the letter. If they did, as mentioned earlier, there would be weekly stonings, and burnt offerings. Really, the old testament said alot of things, most of which no longer apply. Most schools now a days from what I hear only teach the new testament.
Something that has always mystified me about this question is this; if homosexuality and cross-dressing are such a sin, why did God not put them in the 10 commandments? After all, adultery is in there, coveting is in there, murder is in there, but nothing about the supposed abomination of CDing or homosexuality. I really don't think God forgot to put them in, you know? If He left them out of the "big ten", then just how important can they be to Him?
There is evidence that a "chosen one" of God, David, who slew Goliath, had a male lover, according to the scriptures, depending on the translation of certain words in the passage. I don't have the information in front of me now for the exact passage, but if you want more info, I'll find it this weekend when I'm home.
"I see your true colors shining through, your true colors, and that's why I love you,
so don't be afraid to let them show, your true colors, true colors are beautiful, like a rainbow"
"Without change,something sleeps deep inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken!"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Check out "http://www.laceyleigh.com/HowToOutreachII.html"
The classic reference is Deuteronomy 22:5, "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."
According to Theologians that I consulted (more than one!) that biblical reference perttains to what can be worn when entering a Temple. In a Jewish Temple, at least in those days and maybe even now, women and men were separated. Men on the main floor and women upstairs. A person who wore the wrong clothing could be in the wrong place.
I strongly disagree with whoever said "it is a sin, because we are trying to be different then what we were born." I am not trying to be different. I am a man, no matter what clothes I have on. I was born a man, and will someday die a man! I dress because I like the fit, feel, and look of feminine clothes. Now I know that some CD's are transsexuals, and really want to be women. I don't think even those are sinners! If I may get just a little religious here, God loves us all! Cut HIM some slack!
BTW, the theologians that I spoke to? Two were Catholic Priests with PhD"s in theology, and the third was a Baptist Pastor, also with a PhD in theology. I think they knew what they were talking about!!!
Sissy
More Gitl than man sometimes
Do you think God really cares more about what you wear or how you treat others. The Christian religion is basically simple, "Love God, Love your neighbor." Too bad people have been mucking it up for the last 2000 years.
It takes a real man to wear a dress.
Everyone has written helpful info. But, the bottom line is, it comes down to u and your God. Only He and u know what is in your heart. So, here's what I do to solve my moral issues. I ask God to look into my heart, and if what I am doing is evil and/or against His wishes, He should strike me dead! Well, girls I'm still here! So, at least in my case, He feels crossdressing IS NOT EVIL! Try it out for yourselves. If anyone is struck dead, don't blame me! YOU should know what's in your heart!
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