Tea anyone?

[Julie York]

I just read the thread by Lovely Rita "Acceptable/Unacceptable behavior for CDs". And it is such a complex issue I want to start my own thread to hold up your hypocracies to the brilliant light of day.


(I'll explain myself first.....I think I owe you an explanation after being so provocative. And I'm as bad as the rest of you so don't take it too personally.)

It seems to me that what causes the 'conflict' of views, is that there is a HUGE difference between self expression, and the wish to be accepted for expressing crossdressing tendancies.

(I'll repeat that.....in imitation of the best Self Help books.... )

"There is a HUGE difference between SELF EXPRESSION and the wish to be ACCEPTED for expressing crossdressing tendancies."

And so to my question...mainly aimed at all the people who answered "Live and let live etc etc".



Would you invite your CD friend to tea with your open minded family, as an example of a crossdresser if you knew they were going to turn up looking like a fetish transvestite *****?


Ahh see.....Maybe you aren't THAT Liberal after all.




For what it is worth my answer is..."Dress nice...don't embarrass me.....pretend you are a real woman as best you can because it is more acceptable to the public."

[Marla S]

For what it is worth my answer is..."Dress nice...don't embarrass me.....pretend you are a real woman as best you can because it is more acceptable to the public."

Is it ?

for me, please.

[Lovely Rita]

I will take tea with with cream and two lumps, aside from any other lumps you may want to give me, and some crumpets too.

Thank you. I am really only working on self acceptance and it is tied in with how accepting I am of others. Funny thing but some very wise man once said,

Do not judge and you will not be judged.

[Deborah Jane]

Yeah..Why not!! I,d wear my pvc catsuit as well!! And can i make that coffee instead of tea!

[nikki_t]

Would you invite your CD friend to tea with your open minded family, as an example of a crossdresser if you knew they were going to turn up looking like a fetish transvestite *****?

Ahh see.....Maybe you aren't THAT Liberal after all.

I think you're missing my point Julie. No I wouldn't invite them - but I would be first in line to defend their right to go to someone else's house for tea dressed like that - assuming they got an invite of course.

Who am I to dictate to other crossdressers how they should or shouldn't dress? However, I can dictate who gets invited to my house for tea - because it's my house.

[BarbaraTalbot]

hard to answer for me.

Have to take this in two stages.

First stage, is say I knew a TV/TS/CD but no one at said tea/dinner party knows I am. I would absolutely not invite anyone en femme unless I had reason to believe that all at the party were reasonably open minded. I would NOT consider this a case for a test run to see how they might accept me. In that event, I would expect reasonable deportment as I would from my cisgendered friends. Nothing wrong with for example going goth/emo/tattooed or whatever, but that really isn't the crowd I hang with, so they wouldn't be overly impressed with practiced rebelliousness.

Second stage is I am out to the group. Then I might me a bit more open with a little flamboyance, as they would already have an opinion of a CD, expanding their frame of reference hurts no-one. I would be more open to a little more expressive dressing if it matched their personality. If they are animated an larger than life, maybe a mini would work. If they are a shy staid bump on the log, but mask insecurities behind flash, I doubt we'd be close anyway..

hard question to not out oneself as close minded. You, Julie I'd take to church with me in your red heels. Marla, above, I'd expect to be modestly and probably smartly attired, and maybe a little wary, but she'd enjoy meeting my best friend the religious but slightly agnostic American ex-patriot in Australia physicist for root beer, science and tall tales. All depends on who.

I'd wager I could find a group to include anyone here in, some though might meet pretty early in the morning when the shrink holds group sessions.

[Ruth]

Julie, this is a good post. We have to face up to these conflicts. As CDers we are in a curious position. We may have to compromise a lot in order to do some of what we want to do. And we can often feel that the actions of others will have a disproportionate effect on our attempts at acceptance.
And we are not a uniform group of people. One man's normal crossdressing is another man's outrageous exhibitionism.
I couldn't answer Lovely Rita's question because none of the options fitted my attitude. But discussing it has got to be a good thing.
Ideally I would not wish to present as a "real" woman because I know I'm not and don't wish to be. But it's easier to do that in public than be an obviously effeminately dressed man.

[Brianna Lovely]

I've met some beautiful gurls over the last few years, and their beauty has nothing to do with pretending to be women or trying to pass.

They are just beautiful people, who make their own fem clothes, wear colored nail polish, maybe lipstick, carry a purse and maybe wear high heels.

And I would be proud to invite these "ladies" anywhere I may go, no matter what other people may think. And perhaps, if my friends or family were to be rude or crude, then maybe I don't need them in my life anymore.

I would much rather socialize with people who can accept and express themselves, then someone who follows some moral code, with no reguard for other people's love and beauty.

[Michelle S]

I am not open to my family so that form of your question is moot. I cross dress to pass as female as best I can. If I were meeting another CDer for lunch and shopping at the mall, I'd want her to dress for same reason. If she showed up in fetish gear or as a guy in a skirt I'd be disappointed. If I were meeting her at a night club I would not care and might even learn something new. If I were at the mall in drab and saw any type of CDer being harassed I would come to her defense.

This raises question for me about Drag Queens that I will start a new thread on.

[Julie York]

No I wouldn't invite them - but I would be first in line to defend their right to go to someone else's house for tea dressed like that - assuming they got an invite of course. .

That IS the point! Why would you NOT invite them, given that you are so whole heartedly behind their right to dress however they wish?

[nikki_t]

No, Julie that isn't the point. I think people should be able to wear what they like in public without prejudice. It doesn't mean I would invite them to my house for tea.

I don't smoke either but I don't think people who choose to smoke should be forced to stop. I may invite someone to my house for tea who smokes but I would politely ask them to not smoke in my house.

I don't go to nudist beaches but I would never stop others from doing so. I wouldn't invite someone to my house for tea if they were coming in their birthday suit. Get it yet???

As for being "liberal" (which I'm not) - that's a total misnomer. Liberals still don't like people to have personal responsibility.

[angelfire]

No, Julie that isn't the point. I think people should be able to wear what they like in public without prejudice. It doesn't mean I would invite them to my house for tea.

I don't smoke either but I don't think people who choose to smoke should be forced to stop. I may invite someone to my house for tea who smokes but I would politely ask them to not smoke in my house.

I don't go to nudist beaches but I would never stop others from doing so. I wouldn't invite someone to my house for tea if they were coming in their birthday suit. Get it yet???

I agree entirely. I choose to let others live how they want. I'm not going to stop them, but I prefer to let people do what they want on their own, and I'll do what I want on m own.

Now, perhaps I wouldn't invite them for tea with my family. Could be because I don't drink tea . Or, perhaps I know how my family will react. Perhaps I am not embarrassed to be associated with someone flamboyant, but perhaps I know the others wouldn't accept it. Then I would just be causing an uncomfortable atmosphere.

I was having a party last year, and I invited a bunch of friends. I invited a girl I like, who wanted to invite 2 of her friends who I knew, so I said "Sure!" When I told one of my best friends, he said he was bringing a date. When the time was getting closer, he asked me who all was coming. Well, him & one of the girl's friends had hooked up at a previous party, so he thought I was an ass for inviting her when I knew he was bringing a date. It hadn't occurred to me, and ended up causing some huge problems. I wasn't embarrassed by either of them, but it would have been uncomfortable for them regardless.

[Tamara Croft]

That IS the point! Why would you NOT invite them, given that you are so whole heartedly behind their right to dress however they wish?

I'll answer you too, if you turned up to my house invited by me, looking like a ten bit hooker, I'd turn you away too. When you're invited to someone's home, you make the effort to respect that invite, even if you support them, doesn't give anyone the right to turn up like that, embarrassing you in front of your family, neighbours etc. Now if you were all going out dressed like that, that would be a different scenario wouldn't it?

If I invited you for Sunday dinner with my family, I wouldn't expect you turning up dressed like a tart, I wouldn't expect my Tam to dress like that in front of the kids, even though I support her 100%, if she ever did that, I'd knock her right into next week

[jaina]

"There is a HUGE difference between SELF EXPRESSION and the wish to be ACCEPTED for expressing crossdressing tendancies."

And so to my question...mainly aimed at all the people who answered "Live and let live etc etc".



Would you invite your CD friend to tea with your open minded family, as an example of a crossdresser if you knew they were going to turn up looking like a fetish transvestite *****?


Ahh see.....Maybe you aren't THAT Liberal after all.

Absolutly NOT.
but I didn't exactly say live and let live. There are appropriate times for things. I don't socialize with women that dress like ****s, why would I do any different with crossdressers.

High tea maybe, thats just informal gossip and leftovers but not to Tea

[Stephenie S]

Well I would not invite anyone who dressed that way to my house for a family tea. I don't care if you are a CD or a preacher. Don't show up for tea at my house dressed in a leather corset, fishnet stockings, and 6" heels.

This actually happened to me once. I have told this story before, but will tell it again now. Years ago, my partner and I had met someone at a swingers' party in a nearby city. We seemed to hit it off and we invited him to visit us in our small New England village. Well, one Saturday, unanounced, he arrived just as we were taking the kids out for a day on the river in the boat. He was dressed in full fetish gear, leather and chains and boots. It was completely inappropriate. We had to ask him to leave.

So wear what you want, but be mindfull of your host.

Lovies,
Stephenie

[sterling12]

So what was your point Julie? To create a conundrum? I think you probably did.

Personal Prejudices, have nothing to do with believing in Moral Principles. EVERYBODY has personal prejudices against many things and people. No law says I have to like everyone or everything that they do. I have "The Right," to not like them, if I so choose.

However, I do have the obligation/duty to defend a person from Prejudice's Harm. I stated quite openly in Rita's Thread that Sista's who present in public like ****s are a personal pet peeve. Because they detract from where The Movement is trying to go and they cause hassles with The Public. No, I would not invite them over for coffee, (I'm In The States.)

But, if one of them gets beat up, fired, discriminated against, because of the way they present, I would want to be out there on The Front Lines defending that person.

Sorry, you can't "guilt-trip," me about this issue. It's comparing "Apples and Oranges!"

Peace and Love, Joanie

PS. Thank God, we got some interesting, thought-provoking threads lately. Got into "Death Valley," for a while.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I usually do. Isn't this question a lot like: You're in a room with Hitler, Stalin, and Osama ben Ladin. You have 2 bullets. Who do u shoot first? Aren't the question and most of the answers just conjecture anyway?

[ColleenShivas]

I like to think of myself as a liberal - with a little l, or a big L, I don't care. And one of my definitions of being a liberal is to live and let live. So you may live your life any way you please, so long as it does not harm others. And I can choose who I want to associate with. So, if I do not like (or am unsure about) the way you dress, I will not invite you to tea.

[nikki_t]

I like to think of myself as a liberal - with a little l, or a big L, I don't care. And one of my definitions of being a liberal is to live and let live. So you may live your life any way you please, so long as it does not harm others. And I can choose who I want to associate with. So, if I do not like (or am unsure about) the way you dress, I will not invite you to tea.

You just described yourself as a libertarian - not a liberal. Liberals still don't like people to have certain freedoms - for example, they don't trust you to own a gun.

Sorry, you can't "guilt-trip," me about this issue. It's comparing "Apples and Oranges!"

Well said.

I believe whole heartedly that people should be allowed to go mountain climbing and I will vigorously defend their right to do so. Do I go mountain climbing? No. Does that make me a hypocrite?

I believe whole heartedly that people should be allowed to go bungee jumping and I will vigorously defend their right to do so. Do I go bungee jumping? No. Does that make me a hypocrite?

.. and the list goes on.

The only hypocrisy I see on this subject is when I see CDers who think they have a right to tell other CDers how to dress in public.

[Kris]

Would you invite your CD friend to tea with your open minded family, as an example of a crossdresser if you knew they were going to turn up looking like a fetish transvestite *****?


Ahh see.....Maybe you aren't THAT Liberal after all.

Julie,

I want to say I would love to come to tea and I promise that I will dress accordingly.

I also started to read others postings and I decided to stop and write this first because, I don't want my opinion to be based on others ideas.

So, I do believe in live and let live. If I was having a tea party, and was trying to invite people, I would invite people who would enjoy that type of scene. And if I had a friend who dressed in rubber and had a whip and restraints as part of her outfit that loved tea parties I would invite her too. Would I be embarrassed for her, HECK NO! She has the right to dress however she wants, whenever she wants, and if people don't like it, they don't have to look at her. To me, embarrassment is a lesser degree of shame. I am not ever going to be put into a situation where I am embarrassed for another persons actions - for which I have no control of.

Now... with that being said.. my life is filled with open minded, very liberal thinking people. When I had a blue streak in my hair... no one ever said.. "Oh my God, have you seen KRISTINE??" A few of more conservative friends asked me why.. and I said I liked it.. and that was the end of that conversation.

Now, I did have a friend at my house one day and my son showed up. The oldest one. My friend was young, (26 I think) and my son was 20 at the time. She flirted with my son and was ALL OVER HIM........ Now that infuriated me! At first thought I thought it was because I was ashamed of her behavior and later when I talked to my son about how sorry I was that she did that to him... I discovered that it wasn't that I was ashamed of her, I was protective of him. He was great about it and just said, " Mom all women want me!"
Which made me feel better. So..... I still stand with live and let live. If she had done that to one of my friends, they are adults and can handle themselves. But that was my child, which made it different.

And as far as my kids are concerned, I only have friends who have common sense around my children, OR they don't come around. But.... I also expose them to ALL kinds of people every day so that they will be excepting and understand that we are not clones and that doesn't make someone right or wrong, just different. This is why when I meet someone, they don't meet my kids, or come to my house. My ex husband and I dated for 3 years before he met my oldest son. They knew about each other but did not meet until I knew it was a relationship that was going to last.

Kris

[AlanaBCD]

I will carefully weigh in on this again...tip toeing....

I think it all has to do with the reason that you CD, or the reason that you see for CDing.

I do so for the pleasure of being a woman for a few moments. I do not want to be a woman full time.

If you feel it doesn't matter than everyone knows, than you are going to feel that it would be okay for the person to show up dressed any way they wanted.

When I choose to go out, I want to pass the best I can. I absolutely do not want to be read. I want to be treated as if I was a GG. As I said in the other thread, I do not want a flashing sign above my head that says "CROSSDRESSER HERE". As many have said, you are going to get read once in a while. That is a fact, not a choice, by me anyways.

Do others have a right to dress as they want. Well, at least in the US, I think you do. I do not want to dress like a guy that looks like he is trying to dress like a hooker. If that is your preference, than I am not going to stop you. I want to dress conservative, and that is my choice.

For me, CDing is not about asserting my freedom. It is about feeling like a woman, and respecting the beauty and softness of a woman.

I am ready for some tea now.

Just my (This is getting expensive.)

[Julie York]

I asked the question because it illustrates that, when asked in the other thread, if there is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour...a lot of people said "live and let live" "I don't judge others etc etc." And yet they wouldn't invite them to tea...because their behaviour WOULDN'T be acceptable.....therefore they are making a judgement.

[Wendy me]

OK if the Cd showed up looking like a fetish transvestite ... and thats how you knew they dressed that's what you would expect ... now if not then if they did i think i might be a bit put off but would still let them come in .... might shock some ...

lol off topic but i remember mom being over the house when some of my biker Friends came over she was like omg we are going to die ... lol she was tense to say the lest lol.... they sat with us .... buy the time they left mom was talking to them and had a good time ..... see what shocks us what is something out of our comfy zone .... might not be our cup of tea but we can see that because someone is different dose not make them all that bad............

[nikki_t]

I asked the question because it illustrates that, when asked in the other thread, if there is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour...a lot of people said "live and let live" "I don't judge others etc etc." And yet they wouldn't invite them to tea...because their behaviour WOULDN'T be acceptable.....therefore they are making a judgement.

I understand what you're saying Julie but your logic behind the "hypocrisy" thing is flawed. We all make "judgements" all day long day in day out to go about our daily business.

If I invite someone to my house wearing a fetish transvestite outfit, it ain't gonna be for tea or to compare stamp collections. It's going to be for one thing and one thing only. No matter how open minded my parents are, I don't like discussing my sex life with them. Therefore, I would not invite that person to tea with my folks. I simply answered your question honestly and openly and it doesn't change the fact that I would be first in line to defend anyone's right to dress how they like in public as long as they don't break any laws or harm anyone.

Now if you rephrased the question simply: would you ever invite someone in a fetish transvestite suit to your house? I would likely answer yes.

[Julie York]

O.k. the word 'hypocracy' is maybe not the one I meant. It's a bit inflamatory.

What I meant was that there is a confusion when it comes to this subject, a duality in the answers, because there is a difference between the desire to be non-judgemental and the desire to be represented how you would wish to be represented as a CDr. And the two often don't match.

There's been a dozen or so threads over the years, about how people should present themselves in public, so that the public get an "acceptable" impression of what transgendered people are about. And yet by drawing a line of acceptable behaviour, it contradicts the desire to be open minded and tolerant.

I was just amused by the contradiction.