If the Federal government passes anti gay discrimination laws and it protects crossdressers at work, would you go to work in drag?
For me, I'd wait to see what happens to other crossdressers when they do this. Then if things do go ok I would sometimes dress up for work in my beautiful skirt suit collection. Only problem is the dry cleaning bill so I guess I would also dress as a guy to save money.
Yeah, I have a better skirt suit collection than most real women!
Ya can pass all the laws ya want but peoples opinions will not be mandated by govenrment... I'd rather maintain my good working relationships with my coworkers and keep the job I love than risk it all.. Laws or no laws..
IMHO
Karren
Last edited by Karren H; 11-12-2007 at 09:05 AM.
I fear what you say Karren that's why I'd wait and see what happens to other crossdressers first. Like maybe if our forum members do it.
If I have a current job that pays well and I love it, then maybe I wouldn't take the risk. And that's my current job too! Good salary, when overtime is approved I can do up to 20 hrs of it, and I'm working on the parts for the space shuttle, space station, and maybe in the future - the next space shuttle! This definitely is the most interesting job I've ever had!
And when you work for a company that has a big NASA contract, they have the money to pay you big bucks! My coworkers are driving nice cars - even the drafters! And there's a drafter checker who looking to live in a luxury Apt!
Well said. Big difference between legal and accepted. Now...if it was accepted and viewed as "normal" I'd be in a skirt everyday.Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
Lots of crossdressers will "wait to see what happens"
Unfortunatly transgender and gender expression had to be dropped from the current work protection bill.
It really was a "win something" or "win nothing" scenerio.
The gay community has exended a hand to transgender and crossdressers over and over again, often only encountering hate and homophobia. The perfect cant be allowed to be the enemy of the good this time.
Remember this when you go to a gay club for the safe atmosphere on friday, but support anti-gay stances on sunday morning and vote against gay issues on tuesday. Transgendered and Crossdressers really need to start jumping in and fighting the fight. They can't sit it out and expect the gay community to get bloody and always hand them their rights on a platter.
If you assume the this forum is a valid cross section of TG/CDs, Most won't even stand up for equal rights in their own personal relationships nevermind the workplace or government agencies. So why should the gay community risk losing even one fight simply to carry such dead weight with them? If you want TG/Cd equal rights stop hiding and get them, don't blame the gay community for leaving you behind.
Personallyy I'm NOT going "wait to see what happens to other crossdressers" I'm not one of the ones cowering in their closet hoping others do all the work.
Why did transgender and gender expression have to be dropped from the current work protection bill? What was the reason?
You will become stronger in the ways of the Pink Fog. May the Pink Fog guide you and be with you now and forever.
Absolutely Karen!! I fear that prejudices against TV's run deeper than we would like to acknowledge. I'm afraid "discretion" will have to be the better part of "valour" for some time yet.
[SIZE="3"]Caroline
Tranny Granny[/SIZE]
It was a matter of losing 2 fights and having to fight them both again, or winning one and only having to fight one again later.
Protections for TG's/crossdressers were stripped from the gay rights bill that recently passed the House and will soon be passed by the Senate. Removing protections for TG's was the only way the Democrats could muster a majority in favor of the bill. Unfortunately, Bush will veto the gay rights legislation and there is no way enough legislators will be convinced to override. So, gays (and us TG's) will continue to exist as second class citizens, at least until we elect a new president and a more reasonable congress.
Oddly, a few Republican representatives were against stripping TG protection from the bill. No, not because they believe we shouldn't be fired for, say, piercing our ears (let alone dressing completely at work). No, these cynical legislators just wanted to use the vote in their ads for next year's elections ("And, did you know my opponent voted to require your church to accept into their congregation men wearing dresses and high heels!!! The Bible forbids it, but yet my opponent votes to make crossdressing the law of this land. We must save our great nation from such depravity!!!")
So, as to whether I would crossdress to work were crossdressing protected by law, the question is moot. It's not protected now, and won't be protected anytime within the foreseeable future, at least here in Texas.
I suppose if you are a very valuable employee, very hard to replace, and you work for an "enlightened" company, then you may get away with it. But for most of us, if we were to even look at all feminine on the job, we'd soon be shown the door. And there is nothing at all that we can do about it.
Cindi Johnson
Last edited by Cindi Johnson; 11-12-2007 at 11:47 AM.
In California it is illegal to discriminate based on gender appearance, gays, lesbians, etc., but I do not think it would go over very good at my job, wearing dresses and heels. First, the work is manual, walking about sixmiles a day, so my feet would be killing me. And as I work at a high school, I would probably be rediculed by too many students. The views here at school are great. Tons of beautiful girls, quite often in minis. But keep my eyes, and thoughts, off of them. I do occasionally see guys in colored pantyhose, shaved legs, and quite a few wear earrings.
Have been fulltime as Molly with no problems for last year...before that just VERY androgynous though all co-workers knew...even wiht a "law" to protect you you still need acceptance.......just because murder is against the law doesn't mean it does not happen....just proceed with extreme caution
I doubt it Kate. I always wear functional clothing for work. CDing is totally for fun for me. No law would change that.
Last edited by Kate Simmons; 11-12-2007 at 04:22 PM.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
Well said...and of course we all know that Democrats don't care one bit about being re-elected because they love everyone, well, spending everyone's money and running everyone's life.Oddly, a few Republican representatives were against stripping TG protection from the bill. No, not because they believe we shouldn't be fired for, say, piercing our ears (let alone dressing completely at work). No, these cynical legislators just wanted to use the vote in their ads for next year's elections ("And, did you know my opponent voted to require your church to accept into their congregation men wearing dresses and high heels!!! The Bible forbids it, but yet my opponent votes to make crossdressing the law of this land. We must save our great nation from such depravity!!!")
Please, I'm trying very hard to be nice and you're not helping.
As to the question posed. I probably wouldn't change my current dress. I am lucky enough to work for a very open company and with some great people. Over the past few years I have slowly changed my look and attire to where I am currently and except for some occasional good natured ribbing (especially the first day I wore a fuscha colored top), nothing has changed.
Would I start wearing skirts to work? I don't think so. I'm comfortable with what I currently wear to work and there is no need to include more. However I do keep hoping someone in the office will bet me I wouldn't wear a skirt or dress to work.
-Paula-
Last edited by pamela_a; 11-12-2007 at 01:12 PM.
"Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self." - Wizard's Tenth Rule:
"Life is the future, not the past." - Wizard's Seventh Rule
"Deserve victory." - Wizard's Eighth Rule
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There is just one life for each of us: our own - Words from a fortune cookie
Do or Do Not. There is no try - Yoda
I think Cindi understands The Political Game very well. She covered the whys and wherefores pretty well. The Bill will be vetoed anyway....and we are expendable! It is a vehicle for all Politico's to try and make certain points for The Upcoming Elections.
I never did imagine a mad rush for everyone to start wearing heels and hose at work. We would still have to deal with our fellow workers and other hostile individuals. The desire to present as female in The Workplace is probably important to TS Folk, but not a major deal for most CD's. For me, what would have been important about that Bill would have been the idea that I would have SOME protections. If somebody went and whispered in The Boss's Ear, "I saw Joanie down at The local Walmart in femme clothes," at least he would have to find another excuse for firing me. What happened a few years back at Winn-Dixie, what happened to Susan Stanton, incidents like that might finally come to an end.
Just a few days ago, we had a good friend who is beginning her TS journey get fired off of her job. The Boss called her in and said, "People are complaining about you!" "I hear you want to cut your w****e off, is that true?" Maybe if there was an ENDA Law on the books, such outrageous actions might come to an end.
Peace and Love, Joanie
I usually get the impression on these boards that the very last thing most people here want is to be thought gay....
Is there a lawyer in the house?
I'd surely have thought, in the land of the free, that that was already discrimination.. Surely you can only be fired for doing your job badly - or is that just Europe?? :mad:
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
Michigan is an "at will" state. An employer really does not need an excuse to terminate you. No anti gay law can protect you from this. Besides...just because I wear womens clothes does not make me gay.:mad:
Going back to that comment about attitudes, we have these laws on the statute books here in the UK, but offices and factories are not awash with men in skirts. What the law allows and what your neighbours approve are two different things.
[SIZE="2"]Always be true to yourself because the people who matter don’t mind, and the people who mind don’t matter.[/SIZE]
I work in a very masculine envirenment and even with laws I would not dress as a women for work. It still boils down to acceptance and at my job that would not happen.
In about 100 years I think I would go to work in drag. Unfortunately, I will not be alive anymore. The reason that I say 100 years is because I read someting (but I forgot where) and it was a study on how long from now it would take before the country is accepting of the GLBT community. I don't remember excatly how they based the results, but it was based on the fights that the GLBT currently has now vs. years past. How accepting people are now and in the past. So on and so on. Anyway, they came to the conclusion that in about 100 years, our society would be very accepting of the GLBT community. So, the good news is that if any of you have great great great grandchildren and they discover that they are GLB or T, they will probably be able to grow up the way that they feel most comfortable, not the way society feels the should.
kisses
sissy dana
She was the only man he ever loved.
Even if i wanted to i couldn,t because :1 I work in a vehicle restoration bodyshop and it wouldn,t be practical, and :2 I,d never hear the end of it from everyone else there and i need the job!!
Transgendered expression was COMPLETELY amputated from the bill. Some in the gay community have suggested that if they get what they want we TG''s can hide under their skirts by claiming to be gay (even if we are not).
Great plan. Why didn't blacks think of that? Turns out - we didn't need civil rights act of 1964, just make it the gay act and black guys can just talk with a lisp if they don't want to get fired.
I personally will try to be understanding of others as individuals, but I will never champion gay 'rights' in any form after reading all too many 'who cares' comments on gay blogs about leaving trans issues in the wake of this bill. Personally I would favor a bill that bans service in the US government for all gay men named Barney Frank.
Vincent Vega: Well, I confess that I wait to talk, but I am trying to learn to listen. (paraphrased)
Barbara's Blog
So go out and fight for gender expression bill. Get out, get out in public, make statements. Do lots of work.
The gay comunity wasn't going to risk losing this one to carry an added on rider. A nice rider, but none the less a rider that was risky and benefits people that just won't shoulder a lot of the load. maybe next time. Or if its REALLY important to you, get out in the real world and fight for it. don't blame people for not fighting the fight alone.
Be smart, if the gay employment bill goes through, use it as a precedent for a gender expression bill. Thats how proggress is really made.
Last edited by jaina; 11-12-2007 at 06:50 PM.
Where I work, I would not want to ruin any of my nice clothes. My daily work wear is a tee, shorts, and tennies.
Plus, I would get tired of explaining myself umpteen times a day as to why I dress en femme. That and hearing the stupid jokes from a couple morons I work with who seemed obsessed about what i look like already.
It isnt important to me...the point is they have campaigned for the hearts and minds of heterosexuals who are willing to be open minded. Not the bill, but their callous attitude of us being a "rider" on THEIR bill galls me. If they don't think my issues are important or relevant despite the fact that the very reason I might get beat up in public is because of stereotypes about GAY behavior, then I have no interest in their struggles. Nothing more nothing less. They owed me nothing, and gave me nothing. I owe them less.
Their campy use of alternative gender expressions in their entertainment and as symbols of rebellion in their STUPID pride marches, will some enlightened day be the equivalent of Republicans using minstrel shows in black-face at campaign fund raisers and at political rallies. My point is they as a community do not respect us.
This generalizes the gay community of course. However any GLB person who says nothing or laughs along at the vicious slurs I have read on gay blogs about "trannies" as they use in a derisive manner is no better than a white person laughing along or staying silent when the "n" word is used or black jokes are told.
There are some decent human beings in their community and when I see one of them standing up for us in these diatribes I send a thank you, but I have no interest in interacting in any way with people that decry bigotry only when their 'ox' is being gored.
Vincent Vega: Well, I confess that I wait to talk, but I am trying to learn to listen. (paraphrased)
Barbara's Blog
Actually the bill was an anti-discrimination based on sexuality and gender perception bill originally. It covered everybody.No anti gay law can protect you from this. Besides...just because I wear womens clothes does not make me gay.
Many states in the US already have transgender protections, many do not.
A naturally masculine woman or an effeminate man would be protected as much as an outright transexual or homosexual. Originally.
Now in ENDA only striaght-acting gays and lesbians are covered.
It's a common tactic through history, get a lot of groups together to fight together then dump the most marginalised groups right at the end so the majority look more acceptable. Look at the history of the black vote, once it was campained for hand-in-hand with the vote for women. Then women were dropped.
Feminist rights advocates kicked out the lesbians and dropped lesbian issues at the last minute.
Now one part of the straight-acting gay community have dropped the drag queens and kings, the camp and butch as well as all the T: transexuals and all of transgender so they can appear more acceptable at the last minute. Except with a veto likely it seems a really stupid tactic.
As for gay groups and T groups, almost every single GLBT group argued against voting for legislation that dropped the gender aspects. I've only heard of just one, HRC, that didn't and it has had a history of betraying transgender issues. They even promised (there is video of this) that they would oppose a gender-less ENDA but by the end they actually campained for the gender-less ENDA.
Still the majority were still on our side.
In fact some have claimed that there was behind-the-scenes campaining for dropping the gender provisions by people who were supposed to be campaining for retaining them.
And if I wasn't disabled sure I'd go to work in a skirt. Even if I weren't protected by the law I'd do it anyway! As it is they could probably sack me for my long black nails or long hair.
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