Crossdressing why the big fuss?

[TiffanySlave]

It is amazing all the fuss made when a male wears female clothign but not vice versa. My wife once was in an argument with me and called me a fag crossdressor and she was wearing a pair of my sweat pants and a shirt of mine! She was in fact cross dressing! I did not say you lesbian blah blah........... I also told her how strang ethat is and we talked a few. I told her have you heard of george washington? or Ben Franklin? THe foundign fathers of the USA? Back then those men of great power and importance used to wear MAKEUP and WIGS and ran our country. TOday they would be called transvestites and laughed at. I really don't have a specific point but you can see what I am saying. It is hypocrytical of many women to call us CD's when they have worn mens cloths to jsut no one cares if a girl does it. I do what i want anyway. WOmens apparel makers love it as they sell more cloths Depnds what side of the fence your on.

[Wendy me]

well when you think abought it there are two sides to me a "him" side and wendy......
we don't let "him" wear any of wendy's things ......so if "him" is wearing "his" things and wendy is wearing hers ............no one is like crossdressing ........right??????????

[StephanieCD]

I've been frustrated with that same fact my whole life. It's a stupid double standard and it's not fair.

[AngelBelow]

People just cannot accept different things in society. they condemn what they do not know -___-.. and of course, sometimes that leads to hypocrisy.

[Tamara Croft]

Your wife may wear your clothes, but is she wearing them because she wants to be a man??? There is a difference between just wearing the clothes and wearing them for a reason. Crossdressers etc wear womens clothes because that's what they want to be or feel like 'a woman'. I wear some of my SO's clothes... doesn't mean I want to or feel anyway like a man.

Tamara x

[Carrah]

Your wife may wear your clothes, but is she wearing them because she wants to be a man??? There is a difference between just wearing the clothes and wearing them for a reason. Crossdressers etc wear womens clothes because that's what they want to be or feel like 'a woman'. I wear some of my SO's clothes... doesn't mean I want to or feel anyway like a man.

Tamara x

Tamara, no offense, girl; I know of no woman who hasn't wished she was a man - none! It's the classic argument, "If I were a man I wouldn't have to put up with this..." "It's a mans world..." etc. Y'all whine and moan about your monthly cycles each and every month. No one is fooling anyone here; we all want to know what it's like for the other side. And, surprise, most crossdressing men do not want to be women.

There is such an imbalance and pure misunderstanding or confusion in society today; the men are told they have the power, yet they simply do not. Women are told they have no power, yet they hold it all.

Women are terribly confused about a lot of things and here is just a few examples; they fought for the right to go braless, now complain and sue when you look at their nipples. They fought for the right to vote, now vote for the cutest politician or the politician who will fight for the rights of women to wear mens clothing. Women fought for the right to smoke openly, now want to sue the tobacco industry for making them ill. Women fight for equality, yet this is physically impossible; when in shape I weighed in at 225 pounds. At that weight (which is typical for an extremely fit male) you are never going to carry my wounded body off a battlefield, period! Men possess, scientifically proven, a greater degree of logic while women possess a greater degree of emotion and I see this everyday!

Since men do, in fact, possess a greater degree of logic, I can tell you that what you said in your post defies all logic. For example, if I build a shed in my backyard and following your logic, I therefore must want to be a carpenter. If I buy tools and repair my car or lawnmower, I therefore must want to be a mechanic. Your comments are certainly welcome and in fact, encouraged. Debate is a strong way of arriving at perspective. Excellent post, by the way. One thing I did note in your post was a strong sense of denial You know what? Live life and have fun in the process...

[Topaz]

Hi TiffanySlave,

I see this complaint alot and sometimes have to giggle. (Yes I'm a GG) I wonder if cross dressers have taken a look into history?

Women wearing men's styled clothing came out of necessity pure and simple. Women were left to take care of the farm and the children when men went off to war. Many of them found it necessary to don pants because it is too difficult to do what was needed in a dress, exspecially a long one. Ever try to toss hay bales in a dress?

Also during World War 2 women were expected to be in the factories to produce planes, tanks, bombs etc. It was their patriotic duty. It is dangerous to be wearing loose clothing when machines are running, too easy for your clothing to get caught in the machinery and cause serious injury. So pants became the normal thing to do. Would you really want to weld in a dress?

Also as for women being in the men's area of a clothing store. We have been expected to do the clothing shopping for the entire family, including our husbands (for generations). So, if we are going to buy clothing for our husbands and sons we need to go into the men's department. My husband still sends me to do his shopping for him because his excuse is he doesn't like to shop.

As long as men refuse to do their own shopping and expect their wives to do the shopping for the entire family you'll see women in the men's department. Very rarely do I see a man doing shopping for his entire family. If he's there at all he's there with his wife or SO. And usually whining the entire time. It's still part of the hypocritical standards that men put on women. "You're a women and like to shop, I'm a man and don't like to shop so you get to do all of the shopping."

I personally would love to see more men doing clothing shopping for their girl children and their SO's. That way it would be more acceptable to be in those departments.

So come on ladies do shopping for your entire family and make it a necessity to be in the women's and girls departments. Then it will be socially acceptable for men to be in those areas and easier for you to do some shopping for yourself at the same time.

Necessity caused the acceptance of women being in more masculine clothing. After the historical necessity it simply became accepted fact. The problem is that cross dressers have not been able to prove a true necessity to dress in female clothing. It's just what they like to do.

Now if we can just figure out a way to make cross dressing a necessity so it becomes a historic norm and therefore socially acceptable. Hmm, something to ponder.

Hugs,
Topaz

[Katie Ashe]

To avoid creating a fight, you all have a valid point. The fact is society is double standard any way you look at it, CD'ing or Job realated. It sucks and it's realality. We need somewhere to escape that realality, thats why we come here, isn't it? There is my 2 cents worth.

Katie

[MonaSmith]

Why is it that we all blame society and exclude ourselves from that term? We all complain about inequality and yet do nothing to balance it out? We sit firmly in our closets waiting for someone else to fix the problems for us like children.

To get involved in argument about 'which sex is better' is, quite frankly, pointless and smacks of 'schoolyard behaviour'. It solves no problems and makes all parties look stupid and petty.

If you want to dress in women's clothes, then you go right ahead and do so. If you want to go out dressed, then you can do that too. We all have the same freedom, we just don't all have the nerve to do it, and until more of us do, nothing is going to change.

Mona xx.

[Topaz]

Tamara, no offense, girl; I know of no woman who hasn't wished she was a man - none! It's the classic argument, "If I were a man I wouldn't have to put up with this..." "It's a mans world..." etc. Y'all whine and moan about your monthly cycles each and every month. No one is fooling anyone here; we all want to know what it's like for the other side. And, surprise, most crossdressing men do not want to be women.

There is such an imbalance and pure misunderstanding or confusion in society today; the men are told they have the power, yet they simply do not. Women are told they have no power, yet they hold it all.

Women are terribly confused about a lot of things and here is just a few examples; they fought for the right to go braless, now complain and sue when you look at their nipples. They fought for the right to vote, now vote for the cutest politician or the politician who will fight for the rights of women to wear mens clothing. Women fought for the right to smoke openly, now want to sue the tobacco industry for making them ill. Women fight for equality, yet this is physically impossible; when in shape I weighed in at 225 pounds. At that weight (which is typical for an extremely fit male) you are never going to carry my wounded body off a battlefield, period! Men possess, scientifically proven, a greater degree of logic while women possess a greater degree of emotion and I see this everyday!

Since men do, in fact, possess a greater degree of logic, I can tell you that what you said in your post defies all logic. For example, if I build a shed in my backyard and following your logic, I therefore must want to be a carpenter. If I buy tools and repair my car or lawnmower, I therefore must want to be a mechanic. Your comments are certainly welcome and in fact, encouraged. Debate is a strong way of arriving at perspective. Excellent post, by the way. One thing I did note in your post was a strong sense of denial You know what? Live life and have fun in the process...

So Carrah with your scientifically proven greater degree of logic how come you can't logically bring about acceptance as a whole for cross dressers?

There are many scientists who are women and have a great deal of logic. And just how logical is it for a man who is 5'9" 350 pounds to call a woman who is 5'8" 150 pounds a "fat bitch"? Like this person is the glowing example of fitness? He wouldn't be able to carry you off of the the battle field either.

Women are no more confused than men. No I don't vote for the cutest politician. I also don't vote for a politician based on a single concept. I vote according to the whole politician. (And I know that they are all just playing a game and won't be able to fulfill the promises they made.) You're putting all women as a whole into the very narrow perspective that you have of women.

As for smoking there were a lot of men involved in that law suit. And what about the guy who is suing McDonald's for making him fat?

The concept behind equal rights is if a person is doing the same job they should receive the same pay. It's been a historical fact that women receive less pay for doing the same job. It was also a historic fact for people of color. It was a supposed "scientific" fact that people of color weren't capable of doing the same jobs so didn't deserve the same pay. I know there are jobs that I am not capable of doing and don't do them, but, if I am doing the same job as a man shouldn't I receive the same pay?

As for nipples, it's fine if you look at them, but is it really necessary for a man to hold their entire conversation with my nipples instead of with me. That is a matter of respect. If I hold a converstion with you I look at your face, should I instead be addressing your penis during the entire conversation?

Yes women can be emotional, but I've seen just as many emotional men.

Hugs,
Topaz

[letsdance GG]

Hi TiffanySlave,

I see this complaint alot and sometimes have to giggle. (Yes I'm a GG) I wonder if cross dressers have taken a look into history?

Women wearing men's styled clothing came out of necessity pure and simple. Women were left to take care of the farm and the children when men went off to war. Many of them found it necessary to don pants because it is too difficult to do what was needed in a dress, exspecially a long one. Ever try to toss hay bales in a dress?

Also during World War 2 women were expected to be in the factories to produce planes, tanks, bombs etc. It was their patriotic duty. It is dangerous to be wearing loose clothing when machines are running, too easy for your clothing to get caught in the machinery and cause serious injury. So pants became the normal thing to do. Would you really want to weld in a dress?

Also as for women being in the men's area of a clothing store. We have been expected to do the clothing shopping for the entire family, including our husbands (for generations). So, if we are going to buy clothing for our husbands and sons we need to go into the men's department. My husband still sends me to do his shopping for him because his excuse is he doesn't like to shop.

As long as men refuse to do their own shopping and expect their wives to do the shopping for the entire family you'll see women in the men's department. Very rarely do I see a man doing shopping for his entire family. If he's there at all he's there with his wife or SO. And usually whining the entire time. It's still part of the hypocritical standards that men put on women. "You're a women and like to shop, I'm a man and don't like to shop so you get to do all of the shopping."

I personally would love to see more men doing clothing shopping for their girl children and their SO's. That way it would be more acceptable to be in those departments.

So come on ladies do shopping for your entire family and make it a necessity to be in the women's and girls departments. Then it will be socially acceptable for men to be in those areas and easier for you to do some shopping for yourself at the same time.

Necessity caused the acceptance of women being in more masculine clothing. After the historical necessity it simply became accepted fact. The problem is that cross dressers have not been able to prove a true necessity to dress in female clothing. It's just what they like to do.

Now if we can just figure out a way to make cross dressing a necessity so it becomes a historic norm and therefore socially acceptable. Hmm, something to ponder.

Hugs,
Topaz

Well said Topaz! You go girl!

[Tamara Croft]

Tamara, no offense, girl; I know of no woman who hasn't wished she was a man - none!

I have never wished I was a man... why the hell would I want to be one??

And, surprise, most crossdressing men do not want to be women.

I didn't say that either, I said most want to or FEEL like being a woman. So why do you crossdress??

One thing I did note in your post was a strong sense of denial You know what? Live life and have fun in the process...

Denial of what??

Tamara x

[Belledonna]

I could hazard a guess that Tamara meant to ask if your wife wore your clothing to assume a different persona. I, too, wear my husband's clothing on occasion but I don't, and he would agree, do it for the same reasons or with the same motivations as he, when he borrows something of mine. There are undeniably some women who do wear men's clothing as a means of assuming a different, more masculine persona, that is innately and sexually gratifying to them, in some way. So, to the extent that a woman could crossdress, with less fear of reprisal and/or without her motivations being as evident... there is certainly a societal gender bias when it comes to crossdressing. However, it is erroneous to state that all woman who don men's clothing are crossdressers. When I wear men's clothing I do so because it is now customary casual wear for women. I do so maintaining my female persona, that is integral to who I am, with no thoughts of achieving a different persona. My hair is stll coiffed my nails manicured....nobody could ever believe that I was trying to portray another gender, I am simply motivated by the traditions of the times.

To juxtapose that which is customary with that that isn't, without making any
any distinctions, based on motivation is just erroneous. Blanket statements are always flawed...

When my husband dons a dress, he opposes, unfortunately, the traditions of the times. He does so despite his very real fear of reprisal from society, despite the many obstacles it poses to him. He does so because he HAS to, despite all.....because it gives life to an innate and integral part of him/herself. If society started to frown on masculine attire being worn by females, I would undoubtedly stop wearing it because it is not essential to my identity, in any way. My husband will likely never stop wearing feminine attire, no matter the repercussions, as it is essential to a vital part of his identity. Cheri, my husbands feminine self, is an outstanding human being, who has great value, but is relegated to a closet and dark corners, for her fear of reprisals. I sincerely look forward to a day when my beautiful Cheri, and all you beautiful ladies can wear whatever you want, wherever, with no fear!

[Tamara Croft]

I could hazard a guess that Tamara meant to ask if your wife wore your clothing to assume a different persona.

That is exactly what I meant

Tamara x

[ChristineRenee]

Your wife may wear your clothes, but is she wearing them because she wants to be a man??? There is a difference between just wearing the clothes and wearing them for a reason. Crossdressers etc wear womens clothes because that's what they want to be or feel like 'a woman'. I wear some of my SO's clothes... doesn't mean I want to or feel anyway like a man.

Tamara x

Point of fact Tamara is that you CAN wear men's clothing without harrassment irrespective of whether or not you WANT to be a man. Men do not have the same freedom in that regard. Oh sure...we can do it...but there will be consequences that occur as a result of it.

I still say the clothes are the secondary issue in this debate here...the role of females in a male run and dominated society and the fact that they are not held in as high a regard with respect to their own individual self-worth, is the core issue of this dispute.

Is it right? No. Is it fair? Again...no. Is it the way it is and has been for centuries? Yes! I'm not saying it should be like this...obviously it shouldn't. But the question remains then...how do we go about changing societal attitudes to reflect the kind of changes that we seek?

Love,
Chrissie

[Melissa A.]

I knew what you meant, Tamara, and I have been meaning to write a post saying the same thing. Belladonna, however, said much of it very effectively.

Let me put it this way: I have a male personna, whom I love. I am just a regular guy. When I am not Melissa, I have no desire to go out in public wearing a skirt or makeup. I know some do. and that is fine, and unfair that they can't, without negative reaction.

When I am crossdressing, I feel like I AM a woman. I know it is temporary, but it is a very real part of me that I need to experience. I walk, move, and behave like a female and want to be percieved as and treated like one.

It is unfortunate that as men, we must present ourselves a certain way or suffer reprisals. And women do have more freedom to wear what they want. But even in male clothes, most women still want to be percieved as women, as Belladonna said. But it is not a simple tit for tat issue. I would say very few men want to wear a skirt or dress and say to everyone, "I am a man, not a cd. I just like wearing this stuff". Motivation is a big part of it.We decry a situation where men cannot dress with complete freedom and yet buy right into it by dressing in feminine, girly stuff because it makes us feel like a girl.

I, for one, have no problem with it, or me.

Hugs,

Melissa

[Melissa A.]

I'm sorry I spelled your name wrong, Belledonna!

Hugs,

Melissa

[Brandy_Marie]

It is amazing all the fuss made when a male wears female clothign but not vice versa. My wife once was in an argument with me and called me a fag crossdressor and she was wearing a pair of my sweat pants and a shirt of mine! She was in fact cross dressing! I did not say you lesbian blah blah...........

It is hypocrytical of many women to call us CD's when they have worn mens cloths to jsut no one cares if a girl does it. I do what i want anyway. WOmens apparel makers love it as they sell more cloths Depnds what side of the fence your on.

Some interesting points you bring up here. I've seen several similar comments made in various threads. There is one thing I haven't seen (maybe I just missed it) though. How do our Female-to-Male counterparts feel about this? I haven't heard anything from them, and I'm certain they have feelings about statements like this being made. I'm taking a shot in the dark, if I was them, comments like this would not make me feel welcome. It sure hasn't seemed to sit well with the GGs.

TiffanySlave, I feel for you and your situation. It pains me to see the hurt that your wife's words must have caused you. I don't know how many here I speak for when I say this, but we are always here for you girl.

Hugs freely given whenever needed,

Brandy Marie Devereaux

[sidney_girl]

Women wearing men's styled clothing came out of necessity pure and simple. Women were left to take care of the farm and the children when men went off to war. Many of them found it necessary to don pants because it is too difficult to do what was needed in a dress, exspecially a long one. Ever try to toss hay bales in a dress?

Also during World War 2 women were expected to be in the factories to produce planes, tanks, bombs etc. It was their patriotic duty. It is dangerous to be wearing loose clothing when machines are running, too easy for your clothing to get caught in the machinery and cause serious injury. So pants became the normal thing to do. Would you really want to weld in a dress?

Necessity caused the acceptance of women being in more masculine clothing. After the historical necessity it simply became accepted fact. The problem is that cross dressers have not been able to prove a true necessity to dress in female clothing. It's just what they like to do.

I don't know any women who work on a farm. Nor do I know any who work in bomb factories. I do, however, know many who wear pants, although it isn't "necessary" for them to do so.

And as for all this talk about "necessity," since it was "necessary" for pre-WWII women in, say, an office environment, to wear skirts and dresses, why isn't it "necessary" for men working in an office to wear them today? Answer: Because the issue here isn't "necessity," but freedom.

Your wife may wear your clothes, but is she wearing them because she wants to be a man??? There is a difference between just wearing the clothes and wearing them for a reason. Crossdressers etc wear womens clothes because that's what they want to be or feel like 'a woman'. I wear some of my SO's clothes... doesn't mean I want to or feel anyway like a man.

So it's really all about motive? What we think inside? I find that scary. I mean, I don't want to live in a society that tells me what to wear. Even less do I want to live in a world that tells me how to think.

You can't defend the indefensible. And a double standard is indefensible!

[Tamara Croft]

I mean, I don't want to live in a society that tells me what to wear.

You already do. If you didn't there wouldn't be a need for this site or for so many crossdressers to be in the closet.

It is acceptable for a woman to wear mens clothes, that in itself is sexist, which shouldn't be tolerated. But until you come out your closets and start making a stand for the right to wear what you want, then I'm afraid society will continue to tell you what you can and can't wear. I would love nothing more than to go out and walk down the street with my SO wearing what the hell she wants. I have recently told my eldest daughter that her dad is a crossdresser. Now she is only 16, but she took it really well and isn't bothered by it. So I'm doing my bit for you all to start wearing what you like so others aren't fazed by it, what are you doing? Complaining about it, is going to get you nowhere, making a stand is a start!

Tamara x

P.S. I'm on your side you know!!

[Amelie]

You already do. If you didn't there wouldn't be a need for this site or for so many crossdressers to be in the closet.

It is acceptable for a woman to wear mens clothes, that in itself is sexist, which shouldn't be tolerated. But until you come out your closets and start making a stand for the right to wear what you want, then I'm afraid society will continue to tell you what you can and can't wear. I would love nothing more than to go out and walk down the street with my SO wearing what the hell she wants. I have recently told my eldest daughter that her dad is a crossdresser. Now she is only 16, but she took it really well and isn't bothered by it. So I'm doing my bit for you all to start wearing what you like so others aren't fazed by it, what are you doing? Complaining about it, is going to get you nowhere, making a stand is a start!

Tamara x

P.S. I'm on your side you know!!

This is exactly right. If men want to go out dressed as women, then do so. The reason women can wear clothes that are similar to men's is because they are out there doing it. It might have been rough for the first women who decided to wear pants. They must have had people laughing at them, but they still did it. And the first women who did this, opened the door for other women to follow until it became normal to see women in men's clothes. Don't forget women started dressing like this in public years ago, so newer generations have gotten used to it.
I have been going out dressed since the late seventies, not as much now, because of personal reasons. But I have never let people tell me what I can or can't dress like, it is none of their business. Yes, people say things, so what, let them. It didn't stop me from going out and having fun.
It's only when I came to this site and other CD sites that I never heard so much belly-aching about society. I mean all I hear is CDs crying how they are not accepted(Boo-Hoo). Come on, most here are grown men, with many serving in their armed forces, it doesn't take that much courage to go out dressed as women.
I am on goth sites, I hang out with goths. They dress more outlandish than any CD, yet they still go out. They don't let society tell them how they should dress. They get hasseled like the CDs would but they still go on, they go out, they have fun.
I do understand that there are problems when confronting the family about being a CD, this can be rough. But what others think should not matter, CDs should dress as they please and have fun.
And don't expect women, gays or any other group to encourage you along. It is up to the CD community and individual Cds to make their own life a pleasant one. If Cds want society to accept them then it is up to CDs to do something about it and quit complaining.

[Sweet Susan]

Your wife may wear your clothes, but is she wearing them because she wants to be a man??? There is a difference between just wearing the clothes and wearing them for a reason. Crossdressers etc wear womens clothes because that's what they want to be or feel like 'a woman'. I wear some of my SO's clothes... doesn't mean I want to or feel anyway like a man.

Tamara x

If I were English, I'd say, "such rubbish!" Crossdressers don't want to be women. Almost all of us love being men, we just like to wear your clothes, for whatever reason. I'd never become a woman. Even if the magic pill were developed, I'd still remain a man. All I want is the societal freedom to wear whatever I want to wear wherever I want to wear it. Women have too high of an opinion of themselves. While it is true that women are more pretty than men, more sexually appealing, they are also many other things, many of which will keep me forever male. There's nothing better than being a man.

[Deelite]

Quote: "It is acceptable for a woman to wear mens clothes"

This just re-enforces to me that men's clothes are just soooo Booooring!
If women can wear and get away with wearing mens clothes, it just shows that mens clothes are just plain "normal" and "nothing special!!"

It just re-enforces to me that women's clothes are sooooo much more exciting, yipppeee!

Dee.

[ChristineRenee]

Easy for you to say Amelie...you are single. You know...I used to be single and young too and did what I damn well pleased and to hell with anybody that didn't like it. Getting married changes that dynamic. Throw kids in the mix and the responsibility bar gets raised even higher. Sure I and my fellow CD'ers could just go on out there no matter what...but what about how this affects the family? Especially when you have your spouse or SO who's reputation in the community can be adversly affected by the discovery of her husband wearing women's clothes.

As I said earlier...is it right?...NO. Is it fair?....NO. Is it the way it is however....YES!!

If and when you ever get married and also maybe have kids and society hasn't changed it's attitude by then...get back to me on how well accepted you are and how it may also affect those closest to you.

Love,
Chrissie

[MonaSmith]

If I were English, I'd say, "such rubbish!" Crossdressers don't want to be women. Almost all of us love being men, we just like to wear your clothes, for whatever reason.

I think that there might be quite a few TS girls that might disagree with this blanket statement. I personally hate being male and would take the magic pill without a moments hesitation

Mona xx.