Banned from Fashion Bug

[goofus]

Well, a bit of an update. I think that this experience is going to make me a *less* nervous shopper because I don't want to arouse their suspicions and have the cops called on me again. One thing one of the cops asked me was "Why were you looking at the cash register so much?" (I was looking at it to see if the line was going down so I could walk right up and buy what I wanted and get the hell outta Dodge!!) So, no more of that...I won't even so much as glance at the till! That's it, no more nerves for me, if only because I don't want to go through this BS again!

Often sales people , especially young sales girls working alone or at night are nervous.

Okay, there were at least two SA's in the store and the one that was watching me like a hawk was definitely not young. It was after dark but not close to closing time.

So grow up and act your age.

I fail to see how this has anything to do with 'acting my age' . Last time I checked people of all ages get nervous.

Wow! The Xmas shopping season was so disappointing to retailers that they're having people arrested if they don't buy anything. That's desperation!

Good one, Stevie

Incidentally, I want to thank everyone for their support. In the end, I think the store did go overboard, but there's nothing I can do about it now except be more confident in the future so as to not arouse their suspicions....I don't know if I ever want to set foot in that store again even if I were "allowed" to. Screw 'em

[Beth-GDB]

Personally I think some people have been a bit harsh on Goofus in this thread. I can still vividly remember how nervous I felt going in to a store to buy fem clothing when I started to buy the clothes. I still don't have the nerve to try things on in store (I've done that twice but that's all). Having someone say "you should act like..." is one thing, actually doing it yourself when you're just starting can be quite challenging at times.

Just like pretty much everything else in life we learn by trying, we're not born with a "How to be a CD" manual. Sometimes we make mistakes, it's all part of the learning experience.

Goofus, if it's not too late, I'd personally reccomend that you don't send any angry letters to anyone. Based on your description of what happened, you didn't do anything wrong at all, but to use a saying, "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". A polite and clearly non-hostile paper letter to the store manager explaining that you are a CD who wanted to buy some clothes but felt nervous/embarressed due to how many other customers were in the store should be all that's neccesary.

If you send an angry letter that's confrontational, whoever reads it will be more inclined to think "we really don't need angry customers like this, they can stay banned". A calm letter that doesn't make rash accusations about the store staff is much more likely to make the person reading it think "we misjudged that person".

Be polite, be calm, and try to say in the letter that you can understand why the store staff did what they did. Your objective here is to get the store manager to sympathise with your situation and as a result change their opinion of you. By offering an "olive branch" to them by showing some sympathy towards their side of that situation, you're far more likely to get the store manager onto your side.

Before anyone says I'm telling Goofus to "back down when it's unjustified", put yourself in the store manager's position. Angry customers are the last thing that any store wants, they can be extremely irritiating/frustrating to deal with and don't win anyone's sympathy. Unless the store manager you're dealing with is a complete asshole, they're much more likely to treat you with dignity and respect when you behave dignified and respectfully to them.

Assuming you can get the store manager to change their mind and welcome you back to the store, don't be afraid of the sales assistants. After dealing with however many asshole customers that they have (and don't think for a second that they haven't unless it's their very first day on the job), dealing with a customer who's a bit embarressed is much easier. Even if a specific sales assistant doesn't personally approve of CDing, they should at least still help you in a courtious and polite manner. If it helps, ask the store staff to reccommend a time for you to visit when the store is less busy so that (1) you aren't as embarressed by the other people there and (2) the sales assistants are less likely to be interrupted by other customers wanting help.

In fact, you'd be very suprised how many female SA's think it's actually fun to help a guy pick out fem items for himself. Until a few months ago I never bothered with makeup/cosmetics. I went to a place that had a good range and told one of the SA's that I was after a basic set of fem cosmetics for myself. She kept telling me how much fun she was having while testing out different products on me to see how well they'd suit me. At the end of it all she told me that all by myself I'd totally turned her day around.

[goofus]

Personally I think some people have been a bit harsh on Goofus in this thread. I can still vividly remember how nervous I felt going in to a store to buy fem clothing when I started to buy the clothes. I still don't have the nerve to try things on in store (I've done that twice but that's all). Having someone say "you should act like..." is one thing, actually doing it yourself when you're just starting can be quite challenging at times.

Just like pretty much everything else in life we learn by trying, we're not born with a "How to be a CD" manual. Sometimes we make mistakes, it's all part of the learning experience.

Goofus, if it's not too late, I'd personally reccomend that you don't send any angry letters to anyone. Based on your description of what happened, you didn't do anything wrong at all, but to use a saying, "you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". A polite and clearly non-hostile paper letter to the store manager explaining that you are a CD who wanted to buy some clothes but felt nervous/embarressed due to how many other customers were in the store should be all that's neccesary.

If you send an angry letter that's confrontational, whoever reads it will be more inclined to think "we really don't need angry customers like this, they can stay banned". A calm letter that doesn't make rash accusations about the store staff is much more likely to make the person reading it think "we misjudged that person".

Be polite, be calm, and try to say in the letter that you can understand why the store staff did what they did. Your objective here is to get the store manager to sympathise with your situation and as a result change their opinion of you. By offering an "olive branch" to them by showing some sympathy towards their side of that situation, you're far more likely to get the store manager onto your side.

Before anyone says I'm telling Goofus to "back down when it's unjustified", put yourself in the store manager's position. Angry customers are the last thing that any store wants, they can be extremely irritiating/frustrating to deal with and don't win anyone's sympathy. Unless the store manager you're dealing with is a complete asshole, they're much more likely to treat you with dignity and respect when you behave dignified and respectfully to them.

Assuming you can get the store manager to change their mind and welcome you back to the store, don't be afraid of the sales assistants. After dealing with however many asshole customers that they have (and don't think for a second that they haven't unless it's their very first day on the job), dealing with a customer who's a bit embarressed is much easier. Even if a specific sales assistant doesn't personally approve of CDing, they should at least still help you in a courtious and polite manner. If it helps, ask the store staff to reccommend a time for you to visit when the store is less busy so that (1) you aren't as embarressed by the other people there and (2) the sales assistants are less likely to be interrupted by other customers wanting help.

In fact, you'd be very suprised how many female SA's think it's actually fun to help a guy pick out fem items for himself. Until a few months ago I never bothered with makeup/cosmetics. I went to a place that had a good range and told one of the SA's that I was after a basic set of fem cosmetics for myself. She kept telling me how much fun she was having while testing out different products on me to see how well they'd suit me. At the end of it all she told me that all by myself I'd totally turned her day around.

Thanks for your support, Beth. As for your last paragraph, I read about these success stories all the time, but so far they've been the exception rather than the rule for me, and I know that in part it's because of my reluctance to take chances. Well, maybe I'll be taking more chances in the future....

[Beth-GDB]

Thanks for your support, Beth. As for your last paragraph, I read about these success stories all the time, but so far they've been the exception rather than the rule for me, and I know that in part it's because of my reluctance to take chances. Well, maybe I'll be taking more chances in the future....

In my case of buying the cosmetics, I actually used a cover story. A very popular public event was coming up in a couple of weeks and I said I wanted some cosmetics to go to the event in drag. There are always several groups of guys in drag at the event (the Melbourne Cup horserace) every year, so the cover story was entirely believable. I didn't actually go to the race though.

Of course, the problem with cover stories like that is that they're only good to use once at the same store. I couldn't go back to that store tomorrow and buy more cosmetics using the same story.

[JuliaCD]

Hun, you just have to overcome that fear of being weird or a pervert or something and get dressed and go shopping!

A few months ago, I went bra shopping. I was dressed, and went to the lingerie department at JC Penny. (It was mid afternoon, and the store was pretty quiet...) I found a couple bras I liked, took them off the hook and went to the fitting room. Went in, locked the little cubicle door, took off my top and tried them on! (Forms out, my bra off, new bra on, forms in, look in mirror...repeat...) Found a bra I liked, put the others back on the rack. Took the one I wanted to the register. Sales associate called me Ma'am and asked if I wanted to open a charge account. I paid, and went happily on my way. At a JC Penny. In a great big mall!

I like to think I look ok dressed, but I'm not kidding myself either. I wear alot of makeup...my voice is high for a guy but not a woman's voice by a long shot...my hair is thin in back and totally gives me away. All I had to do was overcome the fear, hold my head up, try on some bras and buy one! I know the saleslady knew what was up...she didn't care! I didn't make a scene and she made a sale!

It's a hard leap to make, but once you do you'll be fine. As for your situation, contact the manager and see if you can't make it better. If not, well, lesson learned and shop elsewhere. Just remember, alot of people think we're perverts or criminals, but we're really not and as long as we understand that everything tends to come out ok.

Huggs,

~Julia

[Carla Mel]

GOOFUS

Okay, there were at least two SA's in the store and the one that was watching me like a hawk was definitely not young. It was after dark but not close to closing time.

So here is what happened. You were spotted during 20 min by an experienced SA who WAITED till you went out without buying to call the cops and "somebody" banned you.

Clearly it has nothing to do with suspition, but with discrimination.
Why it has nothing to do with suspition:
- You did not act supitiously, you acted diferently than an average customer of course, but I'm sure you did not act as a shoplifter, or a robber. You probably did not look to how to run out the store, nor hidded your face from the surveillance videocam etc... And an experienced SA would know you definitivly were not a shoplifter. By the way how were you dressed? shoplifter use big coat were they can "store" merchandise, were you using close to the body jacket or coat? Anyway from what you say it appears to me you did not seamed suspect of shoplifting at all
- The SA did not call the police in the first 5 minutes she saw you. If she was really thinking you were about doing something illegall she would not have taken any chance to wait and see what happen. She knew you were not preparing a criminal action. She waited till you went out so she could put the cops on you OUTSIDE the store, to keep maintaining the sales, and leting you being embarassed outside, without embarassing the "normal" customer.

So if you were embarassed and banned not because of any suspition, why was it? Probably because the SA did not like you. She saw you were "problematic" she saw you were not a shoplifter but she assumed you were or a pervert trying to touch underwear, or look to the girls, or if she knows about crossdressing she recognized you as a crossderesser. Anyway she saw you as a pervert not a robber or a shoplifter. She knew from the begining you were harmless, and did not call the cops, til you went out, just followed you with her "hawk" eyes making you feel unconfortable (after all being followed by her is one of the reason you felt bad and did not buy anything).


Again I will recommend not feeling bad after this experince. You are the victim of somebody who though you were a "pervert" was never afraid, did not think you were a shoplifter. You were discriminated for being a crossdresser. You commited no crime. The SA is the person who should feel bad for missunderstanding what you are, and discriminating you and banning you.

Kisses
Carla

[KewTnCurvy GG]

My suggestion, act normal.

I don't know if you were dressed or not but I assume not from your first post.

Anyhow, just act normal and you won't draw attention to yourself.

Acting odd draws attention, even if the acting odd was from being nervous, etc.

Just my 2.

Kew

[StayceeCD]

Honey you look so good I say get dressed, get together with another local T Girl and go "Fashion Buggin"! They won't know you dressed!

[Suzy Harrison]

Hey, why not tell the store that everyone on this site is going to ban them instead.

How many of us are here? - must be a thousand

[LindaC]

I shop the "Bug" all the time. Been to stores in Indiana and have gotten great service, always in Drab. Relax, have fun and get what you want.

BTW, which store did this happen to you at?

[goofus]

Carla Mel - thanks for your support - you may be right!

Hun, you just have to overcome that fear of being weird or a pervert or something and get dressed and go shopping!

A few months ago, I went bra shopping. I was dressed, and went to the lingerie department at JC Penny. (It was mid afternoon, and the store was pretty quiet...) I found a couple bras I liked, took them off the hook and went to the fitting room. Went in, locked the little cubicle door, took off my top and tried them on! (Forms out, my bra off, new bra on, forms in, look in mirror...repeat...) Found a bra I liked, put the others back on the rack. Took the one I wanted to the register. Sales associate called me Ma'am and asked if I wanted to open a charge account. I paid, and went happily on my way. At a JC Penny. In a great big mall!

I like to think I look ok dressed, but I'm not kidding myself either. I wear alot of makeup...my voice is high for a guy but not a woman's voice by a long shot...my hair is thin in back and totally gives me away. All I had to do was overcome the fear, hold my head up, try on some bras and buy one! I know the saleslady knew what was up...she didn't care! I didn't make a scene and she made a sale!

It's a hard leap to make, but once you do you'll be fine. As for your situation, contact the manager and see if you can't make it better. If not, well, lesson learned and shop elsewhere. Just remember, alot of people think we're perverts or criminals, but we're really not and as long as we understand that everything tends to come out ok.

Huggs,

~Julia

Yeah, if I lived in Seattle I might be more comfortable with that. As it is, I live in the rednecked, bible-thumping Midwest.

Honey you look so good I say get dressed, get together with another local T Girl and go "Fashion Buggin"! They won't know you dressed!

There's an idea, Staycee...My question though, if I go shopping dressed and try something on, how do I avoid getting makeup all over the item if it's something I have to pull over my head??

I shop the "Bug" all the time. Been to stores in Indiana and have gotten great service, always in Drab. Relax, have fun and get what you want.

BTW, which store did this happen to you at?

This happened to me at the Portage Rd. store in South Bend, in the Wal-Mart supercenter.

[Katie Ashe]

I have posted this in other places as well. I have been tossed out of Frederick's of Hollywood, "They don't want my kind their". Whatever I went over to Victoria's Secret, they said 1/2 the customers are Rainbow, they are happy to help us, so we shopped, and they helped . HRC puts out rainbow friendly company list every so often, I do try to shop they and the heck with the rest. Hey when I want my shoes, I want my shoes !!!

[Sharon]

Yeah, if I lived in Seattle I might be more comfortable with that. As it is, I live in the rednecked, bible-thumping Midwest.

Just an FYI --I was in Indiana just a few weeks ago and had no problems at all -- in stores, restaurants, bars, or at the local civic center. And a dear friend of mine lives there and does quite well. Of course, I wasn't milling about as if I was ashamed or embarrassed either.

[goofus]

Just an FYI --I was in Indiana just a few weeks ago and had no problems at all -- in stores, restaurants, bars, or at the local civic center. And a dear friend of mine lives there and does quite well. Of course, I wasn't milling about as if I was ashamed or embarrassed either.

Okay, well, if, like you, I were transitioned and at least reasonably passable I probably wouldn't have many problems either. As it is, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

[Sharon]

Okay, well, if, like you, I were transitioned and at least reasonably passable I probably wouldn't have many problems either. As it is, I think you're comparing apples to oranges.

No, Sweetie, I'm comparing attitudes and confidence. Don't worry, it will come to you if you give yourself a chance.

[SiobhanW]

Okay, well, if, like you, I were transitioned and at least reasonably passable I probably wouldn't have many problems either

G, I've only seen your profile pictures but you look passable (and cute!) to me.

[jennifer41356]

Goofus

dont worry, you will get more comfortable whether shopping as a girl or in boy mode. Women think it is cool when their SO buys them clothes so play that little game with them and you will be surprised how easy it is

On another note, last night I was at Wal-Mart buying some iced tea and I was in a skirt and as I was walking to the checkouts , I heard someone say, and i think it was a 12yr old girl,thats a guy, she said it softly to her Mom, I just kept walking and paid for my tea...I wondered, what could have gave me away, and I always think its the wig, as real as it may look, but I didnt let it get me down

This afternoon I went in a skirt to Best Buy and a used bookstore and everyone I came in contact with called me ma'am, I even asked one of the guys if they had the Pink Floyd box set in stock....Once you no longer care what people think, it becomes so much fun

Hang in there, have fun, dont worry what folks think because you will never see them again once you leave that store

[Jodi]

Some people here have been quite critical of the SA's and the store. I will continue with my experience of almost three years of working in a large mall.

There are some very weird things that happen, and some weird people that walk the malls. This weirdness increases in the evening. I was hired at NY & Co and then the Limited because I was a guy. They wanted a guy in the store especially in the evenings. Monday thru Thursday, it is the norm to work the store with one mgr and one SA. More SA's are added on Fri night and the weekend. I discovered early on that I was working a lot of weekday evenings. One evening, I asked my manager about it. She laughed and said that she scheduled it that way. She wanted me in there when she worked.

I could probably write a book on my three years of working a women's clothing store. I saw more weird people, more mean spirited people, and saw more attempted scams than I can count. Fortunately, I also saw many fine people.

Young SA's can be easily intimidated. Older, experienced SA's will act to handle anything out of the ordinary. We called in mall security a number of times when we thought we had a perpitrator or a drunk on our hands. We did not hesitate. Again, SA's are trained, highly trained and retrained at regular intervals to spot anything abnormal and to report such to the manager immediately. We were required to greet a customer within 30 seconds of them entering the store. Any experienced SA can size up a person from this greeting. We were trained to do that. By the time I decided to leave retail, I was a very experienced SA with many hundreds of hours working the floor. From the behavior, that Goofus self described, I would have surely notified the manager, and I would not have taken my eyes off of him. Nervous behavior will bring that upon you.

We didn't bat an eye at normal behavior. We assisted and hopefully sold them a great outfit.

So don't be so critical of the store. Sure, they are there to sell, but they have resources to protect from many nasty, unscrupulous people who frequent them.

If any of you are so skeptical, try working the floor of any store for about a year. Believe me, you will have your sweet eyes opened up big time.

Jodi

[CharleneCD]

I don't know if I ever want to set foot in that store again even if I were "allowed" to. Screw 'em

And this is what you need to let their corprate office know. Calling the cops is not the big deal here. Banning you is. Whether it was the store, or just the cops that was wrong. Since most agree that FB is CD friendly, it might get some staff there some extra training in how to treat poeple. If it was the cops, management needs to tell them they overstepped their bounds. While the store has the right to keep you out, the cops dont if you werent doing anything wrong. Last I knew, being nervous while shopping is not against the law.

Well glad you are going to have no lasting problems from this, other than a few grey hairs. Good luck next time next store.

[goofus]

Some people here have been quite critical of the SA's and the store. I will continue with my experience of almost three years of working in a large mall.

There are some very weird things that happen, and some weird people that walk the malls. This weirdness increases in the evening. I was hired at NY & Co and then the Limited because I was a guy. They wanted a guy in the store especially in the evenings. Monday thru Thursday, it is the norm to work the store with one mgr and one SA. More SA's are added on Fri night and the weekend. I discovered early on that I was working a lot of weekday evenings. One evening, I asked my manager about it. She laughed and said that she scheduled it that way. She wanted me in there when she worked.

I could probably write a book on my three years of working a women's clothing store. I saw more weird people, more mean spirited people, and saw more attempted scams than I can count. Fortunately, I also saw many fine people.

Young SA's can be easily intimidated. Older, experienced SA's will act to handle anything out of the ordinary. We called in mall security a number of times when we thought we had a perpitrator or a drunk on our hands. We did not hesitate. Again, SA's are trained, highly trained and retrained at regular intervals to spot anything abnormal and to report such to the manager immediately. We were required to greet a customer within 30 seconds of them entering the store. Any experienced SA can size up a person from this greeting. We were trained to do that. By the time I decided to leave retail, I was a very experienced SA with many hundreds of hours working the floor. From the behavior, that Goofus self described, I would have surely notified the manager, and I would not have taken my eyes off of him. Nervous behavior will bring that upon you.

We didn't bat an eye at normal behavior. We assisted and hopefully sold them a great outfit.

So don't be so critical of the store. Sure, they are there to sell, but they have resources to protect from many nasty, unscrupulous people who frequent them.

If any of you are so skeptical, try working the floor of any store for about a year. Believe me, you will have your sweet eyes opened up big time.

Jodi

Well, as I've said, I think I learned a valuable lesson - never look at the cash register too much! I think that's probably what freaked 'em out more than anything. I guess what is disappointing to me is them jumping to the conclusion that I was up to no good, as if it never even entered their minds that I might be a crossdresser shopping for myself. I doubt I'm the first such guy that has come in that store (actually I myself had bought stuff at that store on three different occasions in the past). So I still kind of think that the staff went overboard...I've worked at a clothing store myself (I now work in a natural foods store) and we were never taught to 'size up people' based on their response to our greeting. We were never taught to assume that people were up to no good. Then again, the clothing store that I worked at had plain clothes security, so maybe those folks were taught all of that stuff...

[Carla Mel]

Some people here have been quite critical of the SA's and the store. I will continue with my experience of almost three years of working in a large mall.

There are some very weird things that happen, and some weird people that walk the malls. This weirdness increases in the evening. I was hired at NY & Co and then the Limited because I was a guy. They wanted a guy in the store especially in the evenings. Monday thru Thursday, it is the norm to work the store with one mgr and one SA. More SA's are added on Fri night and the weekend. I discovered early on that I was working a lot of weekday evenings. One evening, I asked my manager about it. She laughed and said that she scheduled it that way. She wanted me in there when she worked.

I could probably write a book on my three years of working a women's clothing store. I saw more weird people, more mean spirited people, and saw more attempted scams than I can count. Fortunately, I also saw many fine people.

Young SA's can be easily intimidated. Older, experienced SA's will act to handle anything out of the ordinary. We called in mall security a number of times when we thought we had a perpitrator or a drunk on our hands. We did not hesitate. Again, SA's are trained, highly trained and retrained at regular intervals to spot anything abnormal and to report such to the manager immediately. We were required to greet a customer within 30 seconds of them entering the store. Any experienced SA can size up a person from this greeting. We were trained to do that. By the time I decided to leave retail, I was a very experienced SA with many hundreds of hours working the floor. From the behavior, that Goofus self described, I would have surely notified the manager, and I would not have taken my eyes off of him. Nervous behavior will bring that upon you.

We didn't bat an eye at normal behavior. We assisted and hopefully sold them a great outfit.

So don't be so critical of the store. Sure, they are there to sell, but they have resources to protect from many nasty, unscrupulous people who frequent them.

If any of you are so skeptical, try working the floor of any store for about a year. Believe me, you will have your sweet eyes opened up big time.

Jodi

Jodi,
Acording to you then a woman clothing store is one of the most dangerous place in the world. As soon as a "weird" activity is detected report has to be made, cops has to be called. Sounds to me we are living in 1984. A nervous crossdresser has to be banned then. By the way what do you mean by "mean spirited people"?
On my side I still believe that when you go to far to protect property, and defend "stores", you take out liberty. Well taking out liberty of "drunk" "scam" and crossdressers for now reporting them to the police and banning them for being "mean spirited people", but what about tomorrow?
Is it so dificult to admit that SA not only overreacted (use of unessecary force, and privation of liberty by banning), but did this because she discriminated a crossdresser.
Still wait to hear an explanation of why such a dangerous person, was reported to the police, just once she leaved the store, and therefore was not a danger anymore (if she was at anytime)......

Kisses
Carla Mel

[Andine]

Hiya Goofus!

I hope you are feling better by now! There is a good deal of great advice coming your way, and from what I see, your only problem was a lack of confidence in your self.

I went to the OP shop again today ... I spoke to the lady there, and said I wanted to return a few things that didn't suit me. They normaly don't take stuff back, but I explained that given the poorly curtained change rooms I didn't want to take the chance of upsetting any regular customers. She completely understood, and I'm free to take stuff back as I like! Because I leveled with her she is on side! Use the honey method Babe!! Good luck ... don't let this spoil your new year!


regards

[ElaineB]

You might call the store manager and explain what happened. The people in the store were acting in a reasonable manner, they saw a suspicious subject and acted accordingly.

Is it seen as reasonable now to be suspicious of shy shoppers, to the point of calling the police ???????

I fear for the future of the USA....

[Michelia]

some things I have not thought about. Thanks for posting about your experience, Goofus. And I am sorry it happened. But it does seem you are learning something too.

I will not look at the register anymore. I do this a lot.

It would be interesting to know what others do when they shop and how they plan or behave during shopping. Maybe that should go on another thread.

I always come in a store and say hi. If approached, I tell them what I am looking for. If I just want to browse, I tell them this and ask if it is OK? If I do not want help, I tell them so and ask for their name and thank them for being so eager to help. Then I tell them I will call them if I need them. I browse for loooong hours sometimes. Never had a problem, even in high crime areas.

Does this sound good, Jodi?

Michelia

[kimmy p]

Hi Goofus, it's great finding out how close to each other we are! I have been in that Fashion Bug once or twice with my wife. The problem you ran into there (IMHO) is that according to other employees that we talked to at other stores, the place on Portage is rife with thieves. Both shoplifters and hold-ups. The area it's located in is not the best, despite the attempt to build it up. Plus I know a few of the local cops and they are not the tolerant type. They would rather not deal with anything they don't have to, hence the "Banishment". Don't worry to much, this to shall pass.