if you knew you could pass ?

[zann]

Very good topic. I think passing is a great thing -but not essential for enjoyment of cd'ing. It is a good goal, as the experiences while making the attempt will be very enjoyable. I have passed from rarely passable to most often passable. Passable being defined as causing no particular reaction from those around me. With out plastic surgery most of us can be "made" by any one who looks closely. Most of the time people do not look closely. While getting a manicure I am sure that my reality is known, but ignored. Others have stressed the importance of dress that is with in the norms of the community in which you wish to pass, this is the essence. Go dressed to where ever you feel safe, get the reaction from those you encounter and change in accordance then try again. You will enjoy and improve. Ann

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Going to a mall as a first time experience is over rated..scared the hell out of me...wasn't good ....I got my vibe going after that experience ...just daytime walks in parks etc just to find myself and how to develop my public outings ...back to the mall again and easy ...not a real mall crawler tho.... meeting ppl as Sher and getting my personality developed with them has been my biggest boost

Yes!

We learn by DOING

I also agree that much of what we do is wrapped up in our attitude in how we do. My first outtings were very scary, but once I found my groove... there was no looking back.

*hugs*

Zara

[Jennaie]

I realize that you're not asking us to give our opinions as to whether or not passing is important. It's important to you and I understand that.

When it comes to passing, I think the most important thing is to dress down. Go the mall and watch the women who are your age and look at what they are wearing. Most of them are wearing tennis shoes, blue jeans, sweat shirts or simple blouses, a shoulder purse and for god sakes don't forget jewelry. LOL

I pass when I dress like this. The other thing that I do is when I finish with my makeup, I go outside and face the sun with mirror in front of me, I look at my face and if I don't see a woman, they won't either.

[MsToriJones]

[SIZE="3"]GG's don't take offence go out one night in drab to the mall or high traffic place find a seat and watch the show go by. How many GGs do you see that could be CDs, the way they walk, the way they dress or act, not very feminine looking. [/SIZE]

Hey I know some of them GGs. I know some that ARE definitely GG but DAMN they should have been men. then I have seen some CDs that were like "WOW what a beautiful lady"

straighten those feet ahead, take smaller steps, straighten that back, head up, chest out, sway those hips a little so you swish a bit when you walk not a workman's step. SMILE when you walk in and act like you own the darn place. remain CONFIDENT in yourself and be who you are inside and out

[Brenda1423]

I'm lucky that I'm only 5' 6" ,145 lbs. and 65. I dress my age and haven't had a problem going out. Not to many people look at older women. I live in a small town with no TG/CD support group that I know of. I know so many people that it's a surprise when I go out and don't see someone I know.

I'd be in big trouble if my wife found out. I can only go out when she's away, as right now. As others have said, go out and don't worry about what people think. If you live in a large city or area, even better.
Good luck and take care.

Hugs,
Brenda

[Hali]

The ultimate test for you to know whether you'll pass or not is to try and go out and see peoples reactions or dressup for someone and ask for their comments, all these suggestions are difficult.

Lets talk about the ultimate validation........you'll know you've passed if a straight guy'll check you out and give you a smile and ask you out and even if you tell him you are a CD he'll keep on callin you an the phone.......OK ...OK ...men might not be the ultimate judges on appearance...another validation is when a GG not knowing who you are will start a gossip about some girly thing that has just happen or a girly eye contact with you trying to show you something funny.

I heard you mention somethink like you wouldnt want your neighbours to recognize you well that depends on whether your Drab self looks like your Femme self and its the part that might never happen cos it might be the day you'll be "outed" or not.

[Farrah]

Going to a mall as a first time experience is over rated..scared the hell out of me...wasn't good ....I got my vibe going after that experience ...just daytime walks in parks etc just to find myself and how to develop my public outings ...back to the mall again and easy ...not a real mall crawler tho.... meeting ppl as Sher and getting my personality developed with them has been my biggest boost

I saw your youtube vide. You are gorgeous. I am so envious of you.

[Farrah]

Hey I know some of them GGs. I know some that ARE definitely GG but DAMN they should have been men. then I have seen some CDs that were like "WOW what a beautiful lady"

straighten those feet ahead, take smaller steps, straighten that back, head up, chest out, sway those hips a little so you swish a bit when you walk not a workman's step. SMILE when you walk in and act like you own the darn place. remain CONFIDENT in yourself and be who you are inside and out

Thanks for the advice. I started to practice walking when I read your post.

[KimberlyS]

Shirley, I seemed to have done my going out backwards from most other CDers. In fact I have yet to find another that has done it even close to the way I started going out. Many say I was stupid, dumb, brave, and other things and looking back I am not sure where my mind was at the time. But I still say it was one of the best things I did for my going out. Another was I was out of town. Way out of town away from those I knew. And a third was my attitude. I was out of town and those that did see and I would never see again. So what did it matter what they think.

I do not say the following to boast or brag. It was just the way I did it and it worked for me. I hope others can learn from it.

How I got started going out was shortly after getting on the internet and finding out I was not the only one doing this. I was the not the pervert and a lot of other things I though I was. And something snapped within in me, that I was ok and it was ok for me to do this and I for some reason needed to shout it to the world, and going out would be my way. About a year later I was going out of town on business and I decided this was the time. I had a bra and some other things, but nothing for going out in. So I left about an hour early for the airport and stopped by a Goodwill store to find something. Well they did not have much in the plus sizes that I thought I needed, but I needed something. I got a pair of heels, a long sleeve blouse and just below the knee length skirt. Some nice 60's office wear. I stuffed it in my bag and I was set.

The first night I was there I picked up some basic makeup, foundation, lipstick and eye color. Oh and pantyhose can not forget those. I then scoped out a good route for a walk. The next night we got done by 4 which was good because I needed the time. Almost six hours later I was in too tight clothes and the first makeup I had ever put on, and ready to go out the door. About 30 minutes later I finally got out the door thinking it did not matter what others thought (IDNMWOT). I no more than got the door closed and started down the hall and some one comes out their door and we are like 6 feet apart looking at each other. I am sure I had that deer in the headlights look as I quickly shuffled around him and continued thinking IDNMWOT. By the end of the hall I was calmer thinking to myself, one down, he did not say anything, did not beat me up.

So down the stairs. Not the smartest thing I did for multiple reason one being first time in heels. As I exit to the street I am face to face with someone coming in the door. I shuffle by and move on thinking IDNMWOT even though looking back he seemed to be staring at me. IDNMWOT. Half a block later two guys come out of a bar, IDNMWOT as I take a breath and keep moving. As I get close their conversation stops as one is really looking at me and is nudged by the other and they both stare as we pass. They both break out laughing and one shouts "IT WAS A GUY" loudly and more laughing. IDNMWOT as I look back as they are looking at me but not following. Just enjoying their laughing. After a bit they move on their way and I had been walking as quickly as I could being in heels for the first time. I think about turning back but decide to stick to my route.

I encounter few people in the next couple of blocks except as I approach a park type of area there is couples and small groups coming and going. IDNMWOT. I quickly realize there are some bars and clubs around the park causing the greater number of people on this Friday night. I stick to my route through the park and groups and couples saying over and over IDNMWOT. I am getting some stares and laughs both in front of me and behind me with me ready to run at any moment of trouble. IDNMWOT. But I make it through ok and only encounter a few people on the way back to the hotel ending my almost hour outing with very sore feet.

On the way back to hotel and in my room I reflect on how it went. No one beat me up. I got quite a few remarks and lots of laughs. But what surprised me was those that did not seem to notice or did not comment.

With my new found confidence a few months later I am out of town again. So in a different town, hotel, route and with better fitting clothes I am did it again. Second time fully dressing enfemme, second time ever putting on makeup, and second time going out. And same attitude, IDNMWOT And I get similar results with fewer stares, laughs, and comments.

A year after the first time I am back at the same conference with a different blouse, the same attitude IDNMWOT, and planning on going out to eat. First night I scope out a route to a quiet area, still with people, but several restaurants. So Third time putting on makeup, Third time fully dressed enfemme, same attitude IDNMWOT, and it only takes me 5 minutes to get past the door. Down the elevator and out the front door to supper. As I approach the area a few blocks away it is swarming with people this Friday night. But I push on and up the the restaurant and there were people waiting to be seated and the place was packed. I move on and walk to a park area along the water and walk for about 45 minutes as many should be cleared out by than as it was already 8:30. I encounter people and I am thinking IDNMWOT. I get some looks and stares but no comments that I heard. Try two, no waiting line, but the place is packed, so I walk for another 30 minutes.

Try three only have full, but I chicken out. Back in five minutes for try four. I take a breath and think IDNMWOT as I walk in. I am greeted, OH NO, I NEED TO TALK. I just say table for one and get a double take, then he says to follow him and I am seated in the front middle for all to see including those on the street through the large window I had been looking in. IDNMWOT. My server stops and I order a drink and then keeping the menu up hiding and trying to select an item. I get an item selected and she is back with my drink and I order and she takes the menu. There goes my cover. But I quickly begin to realize that while people look at me coming in and some stared and pointed me out to everyone at their tables, few looked at me anymore. People going by outside looked in but continued not not seeming like they even seen me. Some even came to look in the window, they glanced at me but then just seemed to look past me then move on. Before getting my meal I even catch my server seeming to point me out to another server, but before and after she gave me great service just like any other customer.

I floated back to my hotel thinking about my outing. IDNMWOT. It was more like to many I was not even there or I was a person in the crowd. If they did see me I got some looks and stares and some comments, but they just went on their way and did not bother me.

I have perfected my femme look and clothes over time. But those first 3 times stick in my mind and have kept me going with the I can do it, it can be done attitude.

I hear so often "I need to pass to go out", "I need to perfect my look, my voice, my walk to go out". And I remember back to those first times and smile and think no you do not.

My advice is get out of town, scope out a safe public area with a few people, wear clothes the fit right and blend where you will be at. Then just do it and remember IDNMWOT. It just does not matter what others think.

[Carly D.]

I would.. but there's a few things to think about here.. one is that if you (dressed up) walk out your front door in broad daylight and your neighbors see you and the very first thought that goes through their mind is who is this person and when did she arrive as to elude my knowledge.. and when you come back and don't ring the doorbell and just walk in there will be some suspicion, I'm thinking... just a couple things to think about... odd I know, but that's me...

[Melissa A.]

I would.. but there's a few things to think about here.. one is that if you (dressed up) walk out your front door in broad daylight and your neighbors see you and the very first thought that goes through their mind is who is this person and when did she arrive as to elude my knowledge.. and when you come back and don't ring the doorbell and just walk in there will be some suspicion, I'm thinking... just a couple things to think about... odd I know, but that's me...

I used to worry about the neighbors. I don't anymore. Ever since I decided I don't care, the sky hasn't fallen, and no one has left hate mail on my front door. the woman downstairs from me knows and is fine with it. The guy next door doesn't talk to me, but he never did. The other girls are right. Live your life for you, not fearing what others may think. That being said, going out durring the day, shopping or running errands is much safer than walking around at night. Years ago, I used to do the nighttime stroll thing, but you actually stand out more at night, and it is more dangerous. If I go out at night now, it's with a destination in mind, like a TG friendly club. The only time I get a little nervous now, is in stores, because I have never really worked on my female voice. But a smile goes a long way!

Have fun and be safe!

Hugs,

Melissa

[robin247]

I havent had the nerve to go out in public, I would love too and I know I wouldnt pass that well, maybe as an older lady since I am older but would be nice to go out in public and whatever happens , happens but not let it bother me and just enjoy being out.
I envy those out have been out their for years.

[Lidia_tv]

I would definitely give it a try

[Krystyn]

Hi Shirley,

Passing is so overated.

As so many people pointed out....it's attitude,attitude,attitude!

If that's you in the avatar...you look great...find another CD,go to a group meeting or make friends with a GG and go out.

Try going to a movie first.Standing around in a lounge area waiting for the movie to start can give you a taste of exposure...when the movie starts,it's dark and you can relax a little while still being out.

Walking through a mall,just walking,can also be a "safe" outing.

You'll do just fine girl.

Krystyn

[Marvina Martian]

Passing was at first a very big deal to me. Now that I have found that I can pass, I just go out whenever and wherever I like. If I was not married I'm sure I'd go full time. You just have to believe in yourself, that's all!

[Nicki B]

is anyone like me in the fact that if you knew you could go out and pass ie no odd looks off people no sniggers ect you'd be prepared to give it a go

If i thought i could pass i,d go out in an instant!

You don't need to be able to 'pass', to go out? Passing is all about fear, really?

It helps if you don't look like a man in a dress, but PLEASE - don't obsess about being seen as born female - people will accept you as you are, I promise?

I know some stunningly 'realistic' girls, but there's often something that makes you realise they weren't born female, sooner or later - but it really doesn't matter? BTW, what makes you think genetic women never get sniggers? :hmmm:

Passing is the creme' de la creme of crossdressing.

I've bitten my tongue (hard) in order to be laydee-like, here - but IMHO, self acceptance is the creme de la creme... It let's you do much more?

[JoAnnDallas]

I went out solo for the first time last year. I have been going to tri-ess meetings and did go to HEF2006. Yes HEF2006 was my first public outing, but it was a CD convention, so everyone in the hotel knew what we were. So everyone was read easly. There was not problems since you are with 100 other CDer. LOL Going out solo means you have no protection like I did at HEF2006. I had to interact with people that either took me for a GG or if they did read me, did not make a seine. I always try to dress to blend in, thus mimimizing being read. I have now shopped at various stores and even stood in line where I was very close to other people. So far I have not had any adverse reactions from anyone that I have meet ot talked to. I try to act natural, not over do my mannerisms, try to talk softer and quitely. Once in Payless, I had this little girl come up to me and say Hello. I smiled and said Hello. Then I heard her mother say, "Honey leave the nice lady alone and come back over here". The little girl said "Bye", I said bye and it made me feel real good.

[NatalieBliss]

Soon I will be going out (hopefully) I don't have any illusions of passing, but if I make people do a double take I will be very happy.

[tiffanythecd2001]

Wow she hit on the nail head for me, thats what i was looking for, like after many thousands of readings thats was the answer i was looking for, i got the clothes, i got the body, now i just need to go out and get out this deep closet and go to cd -meetings, thankyou very much,hun Tiffany

[Jere Oneil]

As my signature says, I'm "just a guy in a skirt". But that is mainly because I know that there is no way I could ever pass. I am envious of all of you who can, or have the courage to not care. As to the question, would I if I could beyond any doubt pass? If I could convince my SO, I would be out there, shopping, going to restaurants,and ect. in a heartbeat.

[TxKimberly]

Going to a mall as a first time experience is over rated..scared the hell out of me...wasn't good ....I got my vibe going after that experience ...just daytime walks in parks etc just to find myself and how to develop my public outings ...back to the mall again and easy ...not a real mall crawler tho.... meeting ppl as Sher and getting my personality developed with them has been my biggest boost

The mall is the worst place you can go for your first outting. Far too much pressure for a first time. Go for drives, go for walks, meet other TGirls - all of this helps build your confidence and your comfort level.

When I first started going out to normal places, I had thought I was "passing". This assumes that we are defining passing as "everyone that sees me thinks I'm female". It really took me quite a while to realize that I was not passing, it's just that people don't care. They have their own lives to live, and causing problems or being rude to a crossdresser is way down at the bottom of the "to do" list.
Here is the reality. If you choose to go out dressed, 99% of the people will not notice. Of that 1% that did notice, most wont care and will still treat you decently if you behave decently. Most of that 1% will even still refer to you as miss. Some will call you sir, either because they have not delt with us before and don't really KNOW what is proper, and some are just being pissy. If your going to go out dressed, you need to accept this as part of the package.
In over a decade of going out, the worst treatment I have yet had was when I walked into a mall in the Boston area with two other Tgirls. A group of teenage boys was walking out and one of them pointed and laughed at the top of his lungs. What do you know, it didn't hurt, didn't leave a mark, and I lived through it.
VERY few of us are so small, petite, and perfect as to pass all of the time. For the rest of us, you need to make your own mind up - can you live with NOT being perfectly passable and still go have fun. For me the answer is not only "Yes", but "HELL yes"!

[Sam-antha]

This problem is about going out and not passing. As mentioned in here, just look at the folk walking past you in the street, in the shopping centres or wherever people are. They are for real, people are like that. Women are not fashion models, they can look pretty untidy and not always feminine.
Once you understand that you are ready to really get out.

Going out involves getting onto the pavement. Nothing much else, but a pavement with people on it is necessary.
Just try an empty pavement for practice. That is about all it is good for in the long run. It is being out, but an imitation of the real thing.
Do not misunderstand me, it is a necessary step. For some it has to be dark or darkish, raining under an umbrella or something. it is the first big step, but it is not "going out".

Driving dressed is also a sort of practice, but it is also a means of getting to a busy pavement.
I assure you that stepping out of a car onto a busy pavement is really going out. It may be that you are parked in a car park. Ok then, you still have to get in amongst people on that pavement.
In fact, getting out to the car is one thing, and it is rather like going onto an empty pavement. ( but there is the extra factor that you are wearing a skirt and getting out of the car is not like with trousers)
Your getting out of the car in public and onto a busy walkway is an extra step.

Just get dressed (do not fuss to much with the make-up, confidence is more important) and walk amongst the people out there. You will have to do it with or without group experience, and group experiance is a putting off, but nevertheless a sort of confidence builder, where you will find that you are after all more presentable than many present. A condition that will exist on the pavement too. Bet you do not believe that.

Good luck, ( which you probably do not need) and enjoy it, which you surely will.

~SAmm

[KateSpade83]

To the OP - post several good pics of yourself in the Pic Section and ask people to be honest if you pass.

Well, I guess I'm lucky to be petite and pass 98% of the time! It's such an adventure shopping in drag!

[shirley1]

i have been very interested at the amount of people on here who have said words to the effest that the biggest fear is the fear itself and that knowone really cares or takes any notice even if they do read a cder walking down the road - i fully believe what you are saying but find it hard to believe all the same ! what would i do if i saw a cder walkin down the rd years ago before i had even contemplated going out ! well i certainly wouldnt have said anything or stared or laughed - maybe thats caus of inner feelings of cding myself even back then - but i think its just because i have lived in rough neighbourhoods where kids particulary teenage boys have hanged around in gangs and are too say the least intimidating towards anyone on their own or a bit different - i need to gain confidence and i've said this before my way is to go to a tg meeting and meet others and hopefully get a stance of others on how good/passible i look - no disrespect to other people on here that either cant pass or dont think it that important but for me it is important to be as passible as i can to even think about venturing out on my own - i just wouldnt feel comfortable goin out if everyone who looked at me read me straight away - maybe thats caus i dont see cders every day or every week or even hardly ever so its not common place unless i do see them and they look that convincing i wouldnt even spot them ! if i cant pass then i'll just restrict going out to with others at a venue - that would be good enough for me to be honest now