Ever go to Drag clubs?

[Raquel June]

Girlie....... I have more experience in clubs En Femme that you will ever have. I have done professional DRAG, passed in the general public, so don't think you can presume generalize me and who I am.

I am giving you my opinion based on years of going out dresses.

You can remain in DENIAL if you like.
Everyone is nice to you in queer bar.

Let me get this straight.

You think that the people in drag clubs don't like you and need to be drunk to tolerate you. You have had bad experiences in these clubs, yet for some reason you continued to go so often that you are confident in saying that you have more experience in said clubs than I will ever have.

If the people there are so terrible, why on earth did you go back a second, third, forth, two-hundred thirty-ninth time?

How could a single thing you say possibly be correct?

And what's this new stuff you're bringing up? Is this some kind of competition? What's it matter how much you've gone out or how passable you are? If you're so passable, how did they even know you were a CD?

Yeah. That's right. I'm in denial. Everybody secretly hates me yet acts very nice to me to patronize me. That sucks! Buying me drinks... Asking for my number... Calling me in the middle of the week... Picking me up on the way out to the club... Inviting me out after the club closes... Letting me crash at their place... IM'ing me every night...

How long do these evil drag clubbers usually let this game of theirs go till they spring their trap? Apparently it's more than 6 months. That's really gonna ruin my day when they tell me their true feelings. Maybe I'll turn the tables on them. Next time I go out I'll say, "Hey everybody! I actually hate gay people! Thanks for the drinks, suckaz!"

Is that what happened to you? You were a drag performer for 15 years then in the 16th year they all came up to you and said, "Haha! We actually hate you because you're a CD! We make fun of you when you're not here! Now get out!"

[Bobby Anne]

Let me get this straight.

You think that the people in drag clubs don't like you and need to be drunk to tolerate you. You have had bad experiences in these clubs, yet for some reason you continued to go so often that you are confident in saying that you have more experience in said clubs than I will ever have.

If the people there are so terrible, why on earth did you go back a second, third, forth, two-hundred thirty-ninth time?

How could a single thing you say possibly be correct?

And what's this new stuff you're bringing up? Is this some kind of competition? What's it matter how much you've gone out or how passable you are? If you're so passable, how did they even know you were a CD?

Yeah. That's right. I'm in denial. Everybody secretly hates me yet acts very nice to me to patronize me. That sucks! Buying me drinks... Asking for my number... Calling me in the middle of the week... Picking me up on the way out to the club... Inviting me out after the club closes... Letting me crash at their place... IM'ing me every night...

How long do these evil drag clubbers usually let this game of theirs go till they spring their trap? Apparently it's more than 6 months. That's really gonna ruin my day when they tell me their true feelings. Maybe I'll turn the tables on them. Next time I go out I'll say, "Hey everybody! I actually hate gay people! Thanks for the drinks, suckaz!"

Is that what happened to you? You were a drag performer for 15 years then in the 16th year they all came up to you and said, "Haha! We actually hate you because you're a CD! We make fun of you when you're not here! Now get out!"

Quit looking in a mirror!
You don't have a clue about very much. Live in NEVERLAND IF YOU CHOOSE.

[chrissietoo]

Girls, girls! If you don't stop fighting, Mom's going to ground you both and take away your lipstick!

Bobby's giving some motherly advice: don't believe everything someone tells you in a bar...they're only interested in one thing! Bobby's felt the pain of disappointment, and she doesn't want you to be hurt, Racquel....

Racquel feels the pain, too, Bobby. She just doesn't want to hear about it, not that way, or right now, at least.

so girls, we all want to be happy, and all want to help each other, and all want to soothe our pains. be nice.

chrissie

[Cara Allen]

In Detroit, GIGI's is the place too be. TGirls and dancing upstairs and a drag show downstairs.

Renee

Yes, for SURE! I love GiGi's! Glad someone brought it up! It's very TG friendly, and they even guard the parking lot, and will escort you to your car if you need them to.

[Raquel June]

Girls, girls! If you don't stop fighting, Mom's going to ground you both and take away your lipstick!

Bobby's giving some motherly advice: don't believe everything someone tells you in a bar...they're only interested in one thing! Bobby's felt the pain of disappointment, and she doesn't want you to be hurt, Racquel....

Mom can have my lipstick when she pries it from my cold dead acrylic nails!

I'm usually the cynical one, and you need to be prepared to have your feelings hurt before you expose a personal side of yourself... but Bobby's comments are ridiculous. I would actually agree with most of what she was saying if it weren't for the absurd prejudice she's showing.

Do you think all gays hate CDs? Do you think all drag clubs are full of people who would care less if CDs never showed up? Do you think all these people secretly make fun of CDs?

"Don't think for a moment that we are loved" is such a terrible thing to say.

I could maybe believe that it was just overly-pessimistic motherly advice to keep others from getting their feelings hurt, but Bobby seems to have other extremely negative posts, too.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

If you look closely you will notice even crossdressers need to be inebriated to stand themselves. Alcohol is so much part of our life and once was considered the cause of transvestism. So many of us have trouble accepting who we are because we really don't know.

I've looked closely at many people in this realm, including myself and have NEVER come to a conclusion as absurd as this.

Where have you been going that you have experienced such things?

Oh, and I accept myself and others in my circle of friends without hesitation, or the need for alcohol.

Maybe you need to find a better circle in which to hang out in order to really enjoy yourself and perhaps learn about this life we travel in.

My two cents

Zarabeth

[TxKimberly]

I've looked closely at many people in this realm, including myself and have NEVER come to a conclusion as absurd as this.

Where have you been going that you have experienced such things?

Oh, and I accept myself and others in my circle of friends without hesitation, or the need for alcohol.

Maybe you need to find a better circle in which to hang out in order to really enjoy yourself and perhaps learn about this life we travel in.

My two cents

Zarabeth

If you look closely you will notice even crossdressers need to be inebriated to stand themselves. Alcohol is so much part of our life and once was considered the cause of transvestism. So many of us have trouble accepting who we are because we really don't know.

Much as I hate to say it, I'm gonna have to agree with Bobby Anne to a certain extent about this. As a lot of you know from my posts, I travel all over the country for my job and have met a LOT of Tgirls. Most of the ladies I have met in person were just that - ladies. They did not / do not drink to excess. Of course most of the ladies I have met in person have moved well beyond the "I am ashamed of being CD" phase and reasonably pleased with who and what they are or they probably would not have met with me.

The bad news though, is that I have also gone to a fair number of bars as well and would have to agree with Bobby that very few of the Tgirls I have seen there drink in moderation. What their reasons are for this I can't speak to. Is it depression, self loathing, shame - I dunno, but a lot of us DO appear to drink more than we should.

[Raquel June]

The bad news though, is that I have also gone to a fair number of bars as well and would have to agree with Bobby that very few of the Tgirls I have seen there drink in moderation. What their reasons are for this I can't speak to. Is it depression, self loathing, shame - I dunno, but a lot of us DO appear to drink more than we should.

That's true, but I don't find it to be very far out of line with the bar scene in general. I mean, of the CDs I know who go to bars every weekend, it could be said of half of them that they drink too much -- one or two that they're an alcoholic, but certainly there are plenty non-CD alcoholics in bars, too.

I mean, I do see that CDs tend to drink a little more, but I also know CDs who hang out at bars and don't drink at all, and I don't think it's enough of a trend to be considered a rule that "crossdressers need to be inebriated to stand themselves."

[Kate Simmons]

Everything is what you make of it really but it's best to have no expectations although others may still have expectations of me sometimes. I am very unpretentious and don't take myself that seriously and people respect that. Although I made my "debut" at the club some 4 years ago as my femme self, I've since grown as a person and am now able to do things as my guy self that would have been unthinkable back then. By this I mean talking to and meeting people, making friends, dancing and having fun. Do they talk about me? Probably but I've never gotten any negative feedback one way or the other and the way some of these folks gossip, I'm sure I would have heard something by now. Besides, who doesn't talk when they are drinking? In any case, I've come to be accepted by my LGBT friends as both Sal and Rich.

My point is that I don't sit in the corner and cringe and sulk, I take the iniative to meet and talk to people and make friends. We talk here about CD life and sometimes bemoan and waffle about how everyone downs the poor crossdresser, even gay people. Most do very little about that though. I actually get to know gay guys, lesbians, Bi Folks, B & D folks, "Little girls", the list goes on. By doing that, CDing gets de-mystified a little and they come to realize that there is a person in that dress just as real as they are, and just as friendly. You have to look beyond the outside package to find the real people and that is the reality.

[Bobby Anne]

I've looked closely at many people in this realm, including myself and have NEVER come to a conclusion as absurd as this.

Where have you been going that you have experienced such things?

Oh, and I accept myself and others in my circle of friends without hesitation, or the need for alcohol.

Maybe you need to find a better circle in which to hang out in order to really enjoy yourself and perhaps learn about this life we travel in.

My two cents

Zarabeth

I have been everywhere hear on the East coast over the last 50 years. Top that Tweeny.

Same here I don't need the alcohol, that was Racquel's statement

Maybe you better mind your own business. I do enjoy myself.

It's all matter of facing the truth, which most cross dressers seldom ever do.

Oh you need a better wiggy!

[Bobby Anne]

Everything is what you make of it really but it's best to have no expectations although others may still have expectations of me sometimes. I am very unpretentious and don't take myself that seriously and people respect that. Although I made my "debut" at the club some 4 years ago as my femme self, I've since grown as a person and am now able to do things as my guy self that would have been unthinkable back then. By this I mean talking to and meeting people, making friends, dancing and having fun. Do they talk about me? Probably but I've never gotten any negative feedback one way or the other and the way some of these folks gossip, I'm sure I would have heard something by now. Besides, who doesn't talk when they are drinking? In any case, I've come to be accepted by my LGBT friends as both Sal and Rich.

My point is that I don't sit in the corner and cringe and sulk, I take the iniative to meet and talk to people and make friends. We talk here about CD life and sometimes bemoan and waffle about how everyone downs the poor crossdresser, even gay people. Most do very little about that though. I actually get to know gay guys, lesbians, Bi Folks, B & D folks, "Little girls", the list goes on. By doing that, CDing gets de-mystified a little and they come to realize that there is a person in that dress just as real as they are, and just as friendly. You have to look beyond the outside package to find the real people and that is the reality.

Salandra, yes they do talk about you as they do me.
It's not necessarily mean though, but it can be.
I am sure You have heard the stories about Erin.
I was always in the mix of things and that how it all gets started. You soon get to believe what they say. I hold no grudges, it's just how it is.

[Kate Simmons]

Understood Bobby Anne, no hard feelings from me either after I flatten 'em. I may be easy going but not that easy.

[Bobby Anne]

Twice in the last year I had experiences where I was in a bar, both Str8 and Gay. I was not En Femme and no one knew me. Just another fag hangin around so to speak. The bar was mixed with men and women, Gay Str8 and what have you. In comes a gorgeous looking girl who later out turned out to be one of us. I was blown away. Never in my life did I ever look that good. In fact at first I did not know that she was not a female. As I went about my business and it was my turn to sing at Karaoke, Standing by the Mic I noticed her more closely. Something was very familiar? Naaah I said can't be. So I sang my song, and when the song was over she clapped, that's what gave her away to me at least. Then I really could not take my eyes off her, wondering who she was and did I know her, she looked familiar. Several walked over to h er and struck up a conversation. I was within earshot. She was pleasant, polite and articulate. A rather enjoyable young lady to meet I thought. I studied her closely, she was not young, somewhere in her pate 40's I'd say. No one was rude to her, then one by one I noticed other patron nodding to each other and tossing their eyes her way. One at a time smirks and smiles jotted across their faces.

She stayed about an hour , left a nice tip and quietly walked out. I was Okay with all this, after all I have done this a thousand times. Upon her departure the jibes and wisecracks about her and what she could do for the world at large began. I was horrified. No one had the courage to say it to her face. The bar tender picked up her generous tip and tossed it in the tip jar like it was tainted. Then he took the glass she drank from an threw it in the trash. He saw the look of astonishment on my face and turned to say, "Wouldn't want anyone to get aids from that".

My heart was broken for this CD, here she thought she either fooled the world or proved people were just as nice to anyone. Then at the end of the bar I heard two toughs make lewd comments and suggested they go roll her for sex. My heart was pounding for her now and only hoped she was far away and safe. I never saw her again nor did I ever go back to that bar. The people disgusted me. In fact Since that day I have never entered a bar, gay or Str8 while En Femme. Now while this did happen in a Str8 bar there were gay patrons present too who took verbal shots at her after she left too. I knew these folks from the area and no one else knew them to be Gay or Lesbian. Yes, this was one incident, however there have been others. When I am out I listen closely and intently, after a nice compliment I can hear insult in a low whisper. So not everyone loves or even likes us, I am not saying hates us, but it might as well be in my mind.

Prior to al this I had a successful career impersonating females in public, however now in my declining years I wonder ...was it really?

Sorry fore the long winded sermom. Please excuse any typos.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I have been everywhere hear on the East coast over the last 50 years. Top that Tweeny.

Same here I don't need the alcohol, that was Racquel's statement

Maybe you better mind your own business. I do enjoy myself.

It's all matter of facing the truth, which most cross dressers seldom ever do.

Oh you need a better wiggy!

I see, so based on your VAST experiences that are obviously FAR superior to everyone else's you result to insults.

Perhaps you should come down off of that pedestal and take a long look in the mirror before saying some of the things you have.

[Sandra]

I suggest you get back to the topic in question which isn't throwing insults around. Your grown ups not children

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Prior to al this I had a successful career impersonating females in public, however now in my declining years I wonder ...was it really?
.

After reading the entire post, I would offer the opinion of ... yes. If you considered yourself succesful, don't let the more recent experiences dampen those things that made you happy.
All of us have people talking about us when we leave the room. You were lucky in that you could be the fly on the wall in the girl's absense. If she went home happy and not aware of what you saw/heard, then she is non the wiser.
I think if we could actually hear everything said about us we'd spend an awful lot of time being unhappy and not appreciating the good we experience.

Zara

[Fab Karen]

Drag shows & T-girl clubs are two different things ( at least here in the big city).

edit: reading the "bar scene is evil" nonsense, I agree with Racquel:
"I mean, I do see that CDs tend to drink a little more, but I also know CDs who hang out at bars and don't drink at all, and I don't think it's enough of a trend to be considered a rule that "crossdressers need to be inebriated to stand themselves." "
I am completely sober wherever I go, and I now of other girls who are also, out on the scene. I also know plenty who drink in moderation ( trust me, I have a Masters Degree in drinking). It shouldn't be shocking to see some percentage of people in a bar drinking heavily, regardless of being a CD.
Same as any group of people, there are gay people who hate us, there are gay people who love us, & there are some who are neutral.
And as Zarabeth said "Get out there, give em a try and if it doesn't suit your fancy... try a different club."

[TxKimberly]

That's true, but I don't find it to be very far out of line with the bar scene in general. I mean, of the CDs I know who go to bars every weekend, it could be said of half of them that they drink too much -- one or two that they're an alcoholic, but certainly there are plenty non-CD alcoholics in bars, too.

I mean, I do see that CDs tend to drink a little more, but I also know CDs who hang out at bars and don't drink at all, and I don't think it's enough of a trend to be considered a rule that "crossdressers need to be inebriated to stand themselves."

And THAT is an excellent point I would have to admit I'm ashamed hadn't occured to me. There's the irony - imagine meeting people that drink too much in a bar! lol

OK, so on another note - anyone else notice how this thread has turned hostile, with people attacking one another for their opinions? We all go to great lengths to emualte women, so how about we try here to emulate the some of the best traits they have to offer like patience, understanding, and empathy for others. Let's ACT like ladies instead of just trying to look like them. If your one of the folks that is proud to be male and just like pretty dresses, then let's try and act like gentlemen then. We can dissagree with out getting rude or hostile

[Raquel June]

If you look closely you will notice even crossdressers need to be inebriated to stand themselves. Alcohol is so much part of our life and once was considered the cause of transvestism. So many of us have trouble accepting who we are because we really don't know.

Oh, and I accept myself and others in my circle of friends without hesitation, or the need for alcohol.

Same here I don't need the alcohol, that was Racquel's statement

Excuse me? Care to explain that last statement?

The bar tender picked up her generous tip and tossed it in the tip jar like it was tainted. Then he took the glass she drank from an threw it in the trash. He saw the look of astonishment on my face and turned to say, "Wouldn't want anyone to get aids from that".

I find that extremely hard to believe. I've been to some pretty rough bars, and I have never in my life met a single bartender who would have done such a thing. Even if he hated CDs, he's simply not going to make that kind of AIDS-related comment at an establishment with any kind of a gay clientelle to speak of. You imply that maybe you and the gay people you knew there were all in the closet -- just going out to sing on karaoke night, and nobody suspected any of the clients were gay, but that's also highly unlikely. If your story is true, you (and the people you knew) should be ashamed of yourselves for not standing up for that girl. At the very least you should've made some kind of comment that the AIDS remark was nonsensical/unnecessary/mean/whatever.

Just look at the things you're saying. Nobody here shares your opnion.

Actually, that's not true. Lady Zarabeth and TxKimberly do share your opinions to some degree, but they certainly don't share your attitude. They're wonderful and everybody likes them. No matter what you say about how much experience you have, there are girls here who didn't buy a pair of panties till last week that are much more ladylike than you are. I suppose it's a "chick on the egg" problem, but I'm sure it's no coincidence that you have a bad attitude and you've had bad expereinces.

Maybe you actually have gone out more times than I ever will, but if you add up all the experiences of the people who disagree with you, you will see that you are in fact in the minority. If things were as bad as you say, you surely would've been stabbed to death on the way to your car at the end of the evening at some point during those 50 years.

Your experiences are certainly in the exception, and your attitude is bitter and depressing. You aren't helping anyone.

I think I'm a pretty understanding person, but you're a troll. I saw another thread where someone wanted advice on mascara and all you could say was that mascara made people look stupid and she shouldn't wear any.

[Wendy me]

know what??? enough of this ..... if this is the way this thread is going it's done .... i am closing this now... enough is enough.......