"You'll never be sorry for what you don't say " is Charlottes Signature
I bet she will be sorry for what she did day.
"You'll never be sorry for what you don't say " is Charlottes Signature
I bet she will be sorry for what she did day.
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
All this coming from someone who wont post a picture, I think most of the gals hear look very good as women. Take a look around there are women who look manly. At the store i work, there is a lady there who looks very manly and one of the women in my Dept said that this gal looked like a man, she has broad shoulders and sort of manly hands and yet she is a woman and is treated thusly
The key is to be yourself, be confident and enjoy the ride, there are many places one can go and not be passable and still dress like a woman
Speak for yourself:mad:Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.
We're NOT women.
We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.
Last edited by GypsyKaren; 02-01-2008 at 07:27 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts don't multipost please, and fixed quote
Great post, Charlotte! Breaks up the monatony here, too. And you are not the first to make those comments. We all like to dress to whatever level we want to, including going out or not. Depends on you, where you live, and how far you want to go. I don't want to see anybody get hurt, so I suggest caution to girls who say it is time to go out to a club or to Walmart. I like your spirit and you avatar!
[SIZE="3"]Amy[/SIZE]
Seriously, I have no problem with your opinion. And you have every right to your opinion. Just never single anyone out. I know a couple of CD's that should NEVER venture out without the proper gender covering them. I have much love for them, I think they are sexy as hell, but "society" and religion does not accept us.
If I shave my face clean, I am mistaken for a woman even in mens clothing. I had a guy ask if I was a dyke, and refused to believe I was a man until I proved it.
I do not go out in public in drag too much (of course I mean without my usual covering clothes). When I do I am like a ninja in the shadows. I have stripped down and run around, but if anyone comes near me I am gone! Driving down the street dressed up is fun also.
I'm new to the community, I noticed no one using the word "drag". I love it, I love gothic, and stipper type stuff. I always jokingly call my clothes my "****" clothes! When I'm asked about how I like to look I say "Like a ****!" My name here is my birthday and year, but I like the play on words. I hope no one gets offended by it, cuz I love it!
The self loathing of Charlotte and Bobby Ann is terribly obvious, I feel sorry for them both. Both seem preoccupied on how they might be perceived when dressed.
I'm way too tall to ever pass, but everytime I've gone out it's been ridiculously fun. If you want to meet a hot woman, go out to a laid-back gay bar en femme and they'll accost you with attention.
Both Charlotte and Bobby Ann are intentionally being trouble makers due to their conflicted feelings, but it makes things a little more interesting around here, to have two "Puck"s in our cyber Real-World...lol...
Well some can and do pass and others are having fun trying so let them and me have our Fantasy's it don;t hurt
Angie
Wow - four pages of responses already! No question you riled up plenty of people.
You know there is a line that must be walked if you care to be part of society. You must try to be kind and try to be honest, and sometimes these DO conflict. As someone else pointed out, you are in the "Does this dress make me look fat?" sort of catch 22, but this time we are not talking about a dress, we are talking about a human being with feelings. No, we are not going to look at each other here and say "Girl, you are UUUUGGGGLLLLYYY!". Again, your speaking of a human being here, not a dress.
Now if someone is thinking of walking through a Military/biker/skin head/<Insert your ultra macho group here> dressed and asks you "Gee, do you think I can pass well enough?" then maybe you need to try and figure out how to tell her as softly as possible "No dear, I think you should reconsider".
But regardless of the situation or the person, you don't trot up to them and say "Your fat, old, ugly, have a beard and a square jaw, huge shoulders, and you ought to hide in a closet!"
That would be rude, cruel, and heartless, wouldn't it?
Another thing I would caution you against is ever saying that ANYTHING applies to all. This is a lesson I have learned myself here. NOTHING applies to EVERYONE. To say that NONE can pass is either showing profound ignorance, or a clear intent to be mean.
I have personally met Tgirls that were drop dead gorgeous and we all know of celbrities like Tula. Tula made was a (James) Bond girl - don't tell me she didn't pass. She was living the dream until someone familiar with her history outed her. There are any Tgirls that pass, but I would guess that as they ARE passing, they are probably happily living their lives out in the world instead of visiting Tfriendly clubs or Internet forums.
You know I started this post off thinking "mad, nah she didn't make me mad," but the more I think about it the madder I'm getting. I think your post was heartless. If YOU are upset that your not a Barbie Doll (I'm pissed as hell that I'm not) then fine come in here and yell like the rest of us when we feel low, but to walk in and be mean to everyone here was uncalled for.
Speak for yourself! My hands are smaller than my wife's, I take a US women's size 8 shoe (UK size 6) and my shoulders only look slightly bigger because I have no hips ... but HELLO ... ever heard of padding? ... that goes for boobs too. Oh, and you might have knobby knees but mine are fairly normal looking.Originally Posted by Charlotte Cross
What's that got to do with being a crossdresser?
Ah ... now we're getting the crux of the issue. You might be looking for an answer that doesn't exist but most of us here already have the answer. We are what we are ... people who like to dress and feel comfortable with themselves by expressing a gender that is not "all one" or "all of another". Ok, so it happens to be "non-mainstream" but while we all try to look as good as we can (passable?) it's not the "be-all" or "end-all" of being a crossdresser.
I like Windy's take on things:
Last edited by Rachel Morley; 02-01-2008 at 09:33 PM.
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The River City Gems - Northern California's largest and most active crossdressing & transgender support group!
i dont know if i could pass i do think there is a difference between being passible and looking good dressed as a women - i know i look good dressed but passing is a different kettle of fish - i have small hands slim phsique (cant spell !) tall for a girl but not incredibly tall at 5ft 10inches - and dont have a particulary prominent adams apple - but i have a deep voice and a large nose for a girl - other cders who saw me once at a house visit event said i would pass - i am going to a tg meeting this monday evening (cant wait) saw a girl on a bus this morning and i have virtually the same clothing as she was wearing - i think i could pass but for me the biggest problem is confidence i will probably shit myself the first time as i lack confidence in myself at the best of times anyway and have been known to suffer from anxiouty and panic attacks - but its something i want to do if only once (go out in public dressed) how many people on here that havnt been out just wonder what its like to walk down a street dressed people seeing you particulary women wonderin what its like - to see a girl dressed just like you - what a thrill it would be to see a girl wearing the same skirt as you walkin past you - now i really need to calm down !
Charlotte,
You say “You can’t handle the truth” – Well sweetheart, virtually every crossdresser in this forum has handled the ultimate truth of accepting themselves for who they are…a crossdresser. What you mention in your post is minutia compared to accepting and handling this truth.
I have not posted any pictures because in my 50 years of CDing, I have never had a picture taken. As soon as I do have a picture, I will post it and ask, “How do I look?” I will be giddy doing this and reading the responses. Fantasy, maybe, but in my dual world of male/female, it is my reality. It has been my experience in the male world that just as much fantasy exits. In rural Louisiana where I was raised, the male, biggest bad**s, proud-to-be-stupid mentality was the male reality. I think this male reality is in truth, a crocked up male fantasy. So Charlotte, you tell me what is real and what is fantasy.
You say - “We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.” – I may be a male in a dress but I have feelings that are very much different than when I am in my male life. I accept these feelings as the expression of my feminine self. For me, accepting the fact that I was a crossdresser was my answer and everything else has been icing on the cake.
Kathy
If you're just talking about me, you're correct. Thank you for being so kind as to not mention that I'm also old, bald, flabby, hirsute and butt ugly. You see, I can handle the truth and I love every minute of it.Our hands, our feet and our shoulders are too big. Our faces are too square. We have no boobs, we have no arses, we have no hips and our knees are too knobby.
There I must disagree. My plumbing is what makes me a crossdresser.We certainly don't have the correct plumbing.
Nor would I like to be one.We're NOT women.
But what is the question?We're guys in dresses looking for an answer that does not exist.
Wow Amanda, are you saying someone big like Hulk Hogan shouldn't dress and who says he can't. I'm as big as Hulk Hogan and I love to dress. You kinda sound like the head cheerleader who thinks she is better than everyone else. Don't get snippy Amanda,I'm just trying to ruffle your panties. Oh noooo!Mr.Bill, I hope this doesn't cost me two demerits.
Ok, I think this thread has been burned, beaten and stomped into the ground. Lets get back to the important questions. What color panty goes best with red wine?
Last edited by Holly; 02-02-2008 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Merged two consecutive posts... please use the EDIT button to add content. Multiposting is not permitted.
and I must say I'm surprised at how angry, defensive & reactive many of the posts are!! sure, #1 was making some pretty sweeping generalisations and of course they're not going to apply to every individual here, but then they're not supposed to (hence the whole "general" part, not each person specifically). Maybe there's some posting "history" that I'm unaware of as a newbie, but I tend to take each post on face value anyway, even in forums where I've been a member for a long time and feel like I know people. Anyway, I have some random thoughts that have cropped up while I've been reading....
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I do agree with part of what #1 says in some way at least. I do think that SOME CDers must have rose tinted glasses on when they look in the mirror if they can't see that they don't look like a woman and wouldn't "pass" in public. And I don't think that telling them they do look "passable" is in any way helpful or the right thing to do if it simply isn't true. (and I did say SOME - not all, but SOME, okay??). And of course, the comments in #1 were clearly aimed at those who are attempting to "pass" to go out in public and those who are less than honest in their responses to them, not those who don't care either way if they "pass" or not (regardless of whether they're leaving the house).
I dunno - If people are posting photos and looking simply for an ego-boost or to be told they look nice, then maybe they should say so... post a photo with the question "do I look nice?" or "don't I look great", but if they're really looking for genuine feedback or opinions or advice then perhaps "what do you think?" is more appropriate???
As for the number of responses comparing it to women asking their partner "do I look fat in this" um, well I would very much hope my husband would give me an honest answer were I to ask this question or a similar one - I'm not looking for him to lie to me, or to tell me what he thinks I want to hear, I'm asking his opinion and want the truth. I would be absolutely devastated if I went out in public looking ridiculous because he'd lied to me and said it looked okay (and I'd probably be absolutely furious with him too!). I have no desire to look ridiculous or be a laughing stock personally. Which is why I ask his opinion in the first place - not to receive some misplaced ego-boosting!
I was also rather bemused by the comments that #1 hasn't even posted a photo - well so what? does a photo now make someone's posts or opinions more or less valid? I can think of a lot of perfectly valid reasons for choosing not to post photos online personally!
I see #1 has copped a lot of flack for being negative. Well, maybe it was a bit - but a lot is in the mind of the reader and how you interpret the written words.... and even if it was negative, so?? we don't all have to be happy CD cheerleaders all the time you know, and we all have off days, where things get to us.... you don't even want to get me started on what irrirates me some days, rofl! And where some people are more naturally diplomatic, tactful or tend to "sugar-coat" things, others are naturally more blunt, to the point and brutally honest. Can't please everyone all the time! I must admit, I did LOL at the amateur psychologists and their "you sound like you have issues" responses - why can it not just be as simple as what is posted? Why can't #1 have just reached that "I can't stand it anymore" point and told it how he sees it?
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaytojillian/
Charlotte really livened things up around here.
Danielle
I think I pass but Charlolette is right we can pass some of the time with some people all of the time with some people but we can't pass all the time with all the people. But who cares are we having a good time? Usually.
Like I read some here some where It is all about the trip nut the arrival.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Sallee
Good post I feel there are a lot of real GG s in this world can't pass either and some of us look better than they do. I say a GG that was twice the size of me. But it is a race a game a hobbie or what ever. We all have are nitch in this world and for us if it is to CD than more power to us. Panties that don't show the re wine stains.
While I may not pass (yet), that dosen't stop me from trying to be 'all that I can be' (Chicago someday).Speak for yourself, because you're sure as hell not speaking for me.
Karen Starlene
And above all, it doesn't stop me from enjoying 'being my feminine me'
- #1 - AMEN
- AMEN
- Well, duh!
- Damn glad!
Last edited by Holly; 02-02-2008 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Merged two consecutive posts... please use the EDIT button to add content or the multiquote function to reply to multiple posts in a single post. Multiposting is not permitted on the forum.
The purpose of accumulating knowledge is to use that knowledge to think!
My Flickr Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11885432@N07/
I think you are generalizing way too much. You and I are both ex-marines and think a lot alike but are still different. I'm jealous of your home situation, while you seem to be questioning it. Just remember that we are all different. There are not two people here that are alike.
You use, "Hello girls". I don't use that phrase or similar ones like hugs, kisses or ladies, etc. I guess because I think of myself as a man in a dress.
I guess I haven't been reading the threads about anyone being flabbergasted about not being able to pass. While I'm sure they have existed, I don't think that is a big topic here. It is more like, I wish I could pass... I wish I could too, but I ain't holding my breathe.
Support is what this place is about. So you shouldn't be amazed. I find myself only giving true compliments. So personally, I'm not very supportive, unlike most of the gracious people here. But we are all different.
In the picture forum, if someone asks replies to be honest, mine are. If someone asks to be kind, then I am. I don't think anyone here is really delusional. We know are flaws. Luckily, not many here are as self-conscious as you and me. I consider that to be one of my greatest weaknesses.
We are all different, but we are here because we share one thing in common.
Can i handle the truth hell yeah. I do think your wrong on acouple of things you have said. One thing my hands aren't to big i don't know about my hipps are my face i believe i can pass for the most part. Now thats if i want to pass. I have got some bad comments on here before none so far about how i look but i really didn't ask.
You should tell the truth of how others look but you don't have to be really mean to them. If i don't like someones look i don't post anything at all are even if i do like it still i may say nothing. B/c i can't comment on every pic or post that is on here. As for a man in a dress i really don't see myself as one i'm just me soon to be girlprodigy are nothing at all.
Good bye i'm at wacko taco .com now
Wow, some folks just seem to thrive on controntation. No matter how many times Mom told you that the stove was hot, just had to touch it anyway.
I've seen a lot of opinions on this thread about remaining honest but trying to give constructive criticism. I tell the truth when I post, and try to find something positive to say. If I can't find anything positive, ta-da, I don't post anything.
I almost wrote that it is part of assuming a feminine role, but I have to correct myself. Part of being a good PERSON is practicing civility and trying to bring the very best out of our fellow human beings.
If we stop starting ugly threads, perhaps the world will eventually be a better place. Not saying debate is a bad thing, but whacking the hornet's nest because it is there is a bit foolhardy unless one accepts the fact that one is gonna get stung.
Heidi99
Oh well , tell you what this post may be the truth , but I,d have a great more respect if you,d post a pic of yourself for all of us to judge . We arent cruel , judgemental or scornful . If everyone was as considerate then perhaps the world would be a better place .
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones .
Do I "pass"?
- a number of people who have met me as a guy have had no difficulty recognizing me en femme, including some at a distance in a dark bar
- cab drivers tend to call me "sir" even when I am en femme
- at the GLBT club I go to sometimes, several people have spoken to me, obviously having recognized that I am a guy
- I do not get "Ma'm"'d very much
Tentative conclusion: NO, I must be fairly easy to "read"
Do I pass?
- When I am en femme, very few people on the street or in the bus or in the mall give me a second glance -- or even a first glance, for that matter: most people do not even focus on me.
- When people do give me a second glance on the street, it tends to be when I am wearing something more attractive than the average jeans-and-a-top -- i.e., people's attention is attracted by a nice presentation. I have yet to notice any of those people get annoyed or upset or disgusted or what-not as would not be unexpected if they had looked over and decided that I was a guy
- So far I've only noticed one stare (and it was a long one -- from a woman I've seen around a couple of times, always frowning)
- I have had sincere compliments about my legs and butt (including from one person who I'm fairly sure did not read me... perhaps because he never saw my face)
- I have been told that I make a "beautiful woman" (by someone I did not know), and told I look good (by several people I know a bit but who would likely not have said anything if I didn't look nice)
Refined conclusion: I might not "pass" (in the sense of being accepted as a woman even by most people I interact with) -- but I am "passable" (in the sense that my female presentation is good enough not to attract the much attention from people I do not interact with.)
Even the people who recognize that I am a guy seldom care, or if they do, they often encourage me (well, the women anyhow.)
It depends what one's goals are: to be female enough to "fool" people who are interacting with you? To be female enough to pass muster as female to those who are paying moderate attention to your appearance (attention perhaps attracted by you appearing to be an attractive female)? To be female enough not to draw attention? To feel good about what one is doing?
Me? It varies. Usually, I'm in it to feel good about what I'm doing (in which case I might not care at all if I'm read, or might {like tonight} dress in noticeably female clothes while still being obviously male). Sometimes I'm happy just to "blend", looking female enough to be ignored. I have never much attempted to "fool" people I am interacting with, and doing so is not a noticeably strong impulse for me. But myself, I think I would like to be able to dress well and look attractive enough to get admiring looks and have passers-by turn away thinking I was good-looking and/or had good taste.
My suspicion is that many people on the forum aspire to roughly the same goal as I, that the mindset we have is not "I'd be happy for nearly everyone to think I was Female, even if they thought I was plain or even downright unattractive"; instead the mindset we have is more "I'd be pretty happy for a noticeable number of people to think I was an attractive female, even if the majority of people just basically left me alone or treated me decently if they noticed I was a guy". It doesn't bother me to be "read" if I am treated decently enough -- but I aspire to turn a few heads. (I must admit, though, that I do not aspire that strongly enough to spend much time in front of the mirror practicing makeup or getting the right eyebrow shape, etc..)
You go right ahead Charlott and state the way you feel. I'd not be the one to not support you, and how you think. But that's why we all are here, right ?
Well first off i do it for the fun of it, not so that i can become a girl or whatnot because you're right, we are all men. If we were all women then we wouldnt be here on this website, we would be out there doing something other than this with our lives. So consider the nature of this website thoroughly.
And there are some of us who can pass, believe it or not. I've gone from being dressed as a boy to being dressed as a girl to my friends and they did not even recognize me. My friend even gave me a hug and introduced herself to me as if i was a completely different person (at that point she screamed and freaked out becuase she had no idea that i was me)
So yeah, some of us have an ability to pass and other dont, its just what we do is something we enjoy and thats all it really comes down too. If you dont enjoy it you probably shouldnt do it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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