just thinking

[barbra]

is there ever gonna come a time when we can just go out side for a walk,or shopping or just to have coffee at a shop some were,with out beying put down or looked down at just because we are cds.what have we or i done wrong to be a out cast in this hatefull world.all the f gays and lizzys have all the rights they want and we dont,what in the he.... have we or i done wrong,but just trying to be happy and peacefull.its not far we have to hid what we or i do,i love my crossdressing.it make me happy and joy full.its not fare.one more thing what rights do we have any one know?:mad:

[Amy Hepker]

I am sorry to tell you this but your attitude needs to be better. Yes, it would be wonderful for us to be accepted and respected, and most can be. But do not put down others, This is wrong and are you not being judgemental against others. We all have to have open minds and we all have to work together. We really are not different from the others you have talked about. We are just different than They are and they are not better than us or us better than them. This is where the real problem starts. DON'T BE JUDGEMENTAL TOWARD OTHERS!!!

[SandyR]

Barbra,

You sound a bit down. Guess it happends to us from time to time. I must say for this Girl the day I can sit at Star Bucks sipping on a coffee dressed and not a care in the world will be a good one. Hang in there Hun!

Hugs!

SandyR

[sandra-leigh]

is there ever gonna come a time when we can just go out side for a walk,or shopping or just to have coffee at a shop some were,with out beying put down or looked down at just because we are cds.

I would not say that I never get put down for my CD'ing, but where I live, it is far more the exception than the norm. Hereabouts, if you do not dress in clothes that beg for attention, most people don't do anything more than shrug, if they notice you at all. I've done the guy-in-a-skirt thing and the guy-in-a-dress thing while out grocery shopping or riding my bicycle or going to restaurants; I've taken hour-long (city) bus rides en femme and had no-one focus their eyes on me -- not just "I don't want to get involved" but complete "this person is just part of the normal scenery, of no interest." I sometimes get a little more attention in the busier malls, but no-one says anything there. At the local mid-sized shopping mall (about a mile down the road from where I live), I've only had one person (other than the merchants I was buying my wigs or bras from) mention my dressing, and it was from a woman who more or less congratulated me for having the courage to be myself.

"YMMV" (Your Milage May Vary), but it turns out there is acceptance (or at least tolerance without a fuss) in a lot of places that one would have expected to be strongly against cross-dressing. For example, Marissa (I think it was) had a great story about the bar she goes to regularly en femme, where the bartender throw out a customer who was acting offensive, and all of the regulars acted to help protect her when the customer came back wanting to attack her.

[trannie T]

If we are to have any rights we have to quit feeling sorry for ourselves and do something. Take an active role in supporting transgender rights by writing your legislators. Support those political candidates who will support our rights.

[charlie]

Barbara,
Unlike the gay and lesbians, we are looked at even more strangely. The gay people for the most part do not seem to understand us because we crossdressers for the most part are straight. I have had numerous discussions with gay men in bars that don't really understand why I would sit in a dress if I don't want to pick up a guy! The straight world just thinks we are not only gay, but perverted gays on top of that. Go out, meet people and make friends. That will sway the minds of the people that you come in contact with. It seems the best that we can do.

[Stacy GG]

f gays and lizzys have all the rights they want and we dont,what in the he....

well I hate to point out the obvious but the gays and lesbians had to fight for thier rights by getting out there and being heard it's not enough to just live your life. The only way for there to be change is to initaite it yourself! Quite the whining and crying the world does not change by you sitting around complaining about it. If you want change you have to do it yourself!

[RobertaFermina]

To the extent that I let others bother me when they "judge","dismiss", or "harrass" me, I am cooperating with them in creating a world of misery.

Folks judge each other because the alternative, accepting differences, would take them into the ground of accepting their own perceived "differences" from the crowd. Fear of that discomfort is the energy source of tossing barbs at others.

Whenever I take one of those barbs personally (i.e. react-inward), I validate and add to the negative energy that is directed my way. I become their accomplice in creating a world of misery. If I go so far to react-outwardly in a hurt, or reactionary, or aggressive manner in response to the barb, I am co-creating that world of misery more obviously and urgently.

If the rude behaviour is just that, and not actual threat, or violence, then forgiveness, or benign pity (sadness-for-them) is the most positive or neutral response.

After all, its MY PARTY and they don't have to join it, do they?

Someone mentioned an "attitude shift." Consider this, could their discomfort with my presentation cause me to add my own self-judgment and discomfort to the mix ? Could I be crediting my self-judgment to their account, rather than owning the fact that I have my own fears and self-judgment to work through ? If this is true, I may even go so far to see judgment, and harassment from others when there is none at all...just innocent behaviors that trigger my own (denied?) self-judgment.

Roberta

[teresa jeen]

i think a lot of it comes from the not being commited to one or the other. most of us are not gay, but we dress like we want " a man" so to speak. by dressing we "have the need" to be with a "man". thats not it at all. am i wrong to think that just being comfortable in my clothing that im doing a bad thing? im not harming anyone, nor forcing anyone to do anything? i just want to be me.

[ericalynncd]

I posted this awhile back and got zero response. I guess we dont want it bad enough.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=74443

[battybattybats]

is there ever gonna come a time when we can just go out side for a walk,or shopping or just to have coffee at a shop some were,with out beying put down or looked down at just because we are cds.what have we or i done wrong to be a out cast in this hatefull world.all the f gays and lizzys have all the rights they want and we dont,what in the he.... have we or i done wrong,but just trying to be happy and peacefull.its not far we have to hid what we or i do,i love my crossdressing.it make me happy and joy full.its not fare.one more thing what rights do we have any one know?:mad:

Depending on where in the world a CD might be they might have less more or exactly the same rights as gays and lesbians. Certainly the civil rights battles of gays and lesbians are far from over, they are yet to get the same rights as straight people.

If you want the situation to change, if you want rights and acceptance there is one thing you can do. FIGHT!
It has worked thus far for every oppressed group. Don't ask for your rights to be recognised, demand them! Organise. Strategise. Get allies with similar causes.

Every other person who wants the same rights is now your friend, whether gay, lesbian, black, hispanic, asian, female, disabled, intellectual... everyone discriminated against is the same as you. Your fight is their fight. Their fight is your fight. People that oppose others getting the rights you want for yourself are now your enemies.

Forge these alliances strong, join forces, make friends, learn about the issues, write letters, sign petitions, join marches, speak out, lobby, vote, support others like you and gain their support in return. Above all, ridicule your enemies accurately. I don't mean have a sassy comeback handy when someone shouts at you, I mean spread the word that phobic people are dim-witted and/or have something to hide. One of the best weapons in the feminist arsenal was the phrase 'male chauvenist pig'. Whenever the subject of bigotry comes up in your prence denounce it with accurate ridicule, show it as contemptable. Your enemies have been struggling to control the perception of people like you and others for centuries because they fear you. Give them a reason to fear you. Lay bare the realities of their lies by raising public conciousness of it through accurate ridicule.

Above all stay safe. As long as you are alive, as long as you are strong then they cannot defeat you. When safe be visible. Make friends. Raise peoples consciousness and it will spread like a virus.

Drastic social change can occur over a short space of time. All you need to do is act and successfully call on others to act.

[TV Wannabe]

Some day, things will be better sister.

[Angie G]

Well some people just suck And there is nothing one can do about that so just let them go you to that hot place
Angie

[Amy07]

Well, since you asked..

March 12, 2022 will be that day.

Hey, we all have to set goals, Barbra. Just a bit of fun... I ask your question all the time every single day when I see ladies in pants.

[sterling12]

Hmmm, is there ever going to be a time when we can go outside and shop without being harassed? Yes there is, and that time is NOW!

You can go out tomorrow, and possibly you might get laughed at, but it's doubtful that someone would decide to "whomp up on you." Face it Hon, most people don't really care, or they have just enough manners not to make a scene.

We have to fight "The Tolerance Battle," everyday. Usually, we have to do it as individuals, but if tomorrow tens of thousands of us individual CD's were out there on the street, and we did the same thing the next day, and the next.... Pretty soon, people would just get bored and be non-plussed when they "spied a trannie." We would get "instant tolerance."

So, how about you? Have you fought an individual battle for the cause lately? Have you gone shopping, gone to a club, taken a drive, done any sort of activity en femme? If you have not; instead of complaining, why don't you get out there and do something!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Melora]

Though I agree with the previous posts..
My answer to this question.. We do have the RIGHT to CrossDress! You can not get arrested in most of the western civilised world lawfully. Though atrocities of rights do happen!
But that does not mean that alot of society and the world will not be the , raceist intolerant sheep that they are, whether it be through brainless and/or religous and racest ignorance, prejudous and intolerance, in otherwords most unenlighted/brainwashed people simply do not like that what they do not understand. It most likely will change for the better in the future as most of society are actually accepting open homosexuality for example. Though there are those knuckleheads who just "WILL NOT CHANGE Ever", because those who commit violence against others because of religion, race or creed are just plain EVIL in my eyes, and there will always be people such as this type. I was actually a victim of such a hate crime many years ago.. But that is another story...
On another note I have lately seen on various documentaries and specials mostly on satalite chanels on the television that actually give a very positive enlightenment about CD/TG & TS issues, which just makes me want to smile. So I guess the tolerance movement IS THERE if only in the background, but it helps nonetheless?
Melora

[barbra]

for one thing i dont have a attitude problem,i just asked a question that all.and for another thing i am in a country that i have no idea what is what.i am in the cayman islands right now and dont know what to think or say right now.i want to be me a happy cd and go places dressedup but dont know anything about this place,but i am checking about all i can,if any body knows any thing about this place can you help.two fight i will fight i will start looking and try to find a way to start a crossdresser rally and march and i will let it be known we are her and we are strong and all one.so dont say i have a attitude problem,if you dont want me her and saying whats on my mind thats fine i will leave and not come back ever.you watch and see i will fight and get something started all over the world.have a nice day barbra.

[deja true]

well I hate to point out the obvious but the gays and lesbians had to fight for thier rights by getting out there and being heard it's not enough to just live your life. The only way for there to be change is to initaite it yourself! Quite the whining and crying the world does not change by you sitting around complaining about it. If you want change you have to do it yourself!

That's mostly true, Stacy, but gays and lesbians had a lot more straight help than we've been able to recruit. Many politicians and respected personalities stood up for gay rights as a human rights or civil rights issue and the public finally agreed with them (many having gay or lesbian friends and relatives that they could relate to).

But our 'minority' is way smaller than the nationwide gay community and not so visible. Heck, most of us are adamant about remaining invisible. And it's not likely that many personalities will voluntarily get up and champion our cause for us.

Eventually gay people were portrayed in mass media as 'just like everybody else'. We're portrayed still as oddballs. For us it's a "one step forward, two steps back kinda thing. For every positive Oprah show, there're two Springer freak shows.

A little progress has been made, but, as you say, until we can do it ourselves
we'll always be in a sort of limbo.

I was involved in anti-war protests and civil rights marches and human rights campaigns and now environmental causes for the past many years...

But until my pension is safe and I don't live in a place full of haters, somebody else will have to take the lead. Sorry!

respect & love (mixed with a little shame)

deja

[battybattybats]

... as most of society are actually accepting open homosexuality for example. Though there are those knuckleheads who just "WILL NOT CHANGE Ever", because those who commit violence against others because of religion, race or creed are just plain EVIL in my eyes, and there will always be people such as this type. I was actually a victim of such a hate crime many years ago.. But that is another story...

Actually studies have shown most homophobes are repressed homosexuals or bisexuals. So as more and more people accept that it is ok to be gay the homophobes will gradually dwindle to extinction as one by one they reconcile themselves to their attractions and come out. That or there will just be less and less repressing themselves in each generation.

I expect the same could be true of transphobes.

You have my condolences on whatever it was you went through.

But our 'minority' is way smaller than the nationwide gay community and not so visible. Heck, most of us are adamant about remaining invisible. And it's not likely that many personalities will voluntarily get up and champion our cause for us.

You're right about the invisible but i think you are wrong about the numbers. While 30% of austalian men have had at least one same-sex sexual encounter most of them are Bi. Many estimates put gays as about 4% of the population. That would be higher than the number of transexuals but way lower than many estimates of straight crossdressers some of which suggest 10% of the population or even more! Neither set of numbers is solidly reliable though as neither are counted in census's (if that's the correct plural of census?).

A little progress has been made, but, as you say, until we can do it ourselves
we'll always be in a sort of limbo.

I was involved in anti-war protests and civil rights marches and human rights campaigns and now environmental causes for the past many years...

But until my pension is safe and I don't live in a place full of haters, somebody else will have to take the lead. Sorry!

Well you've already done a lot for society. Still you might be able to do work from behind the scenes. I wonder if it might be possible to get closeted CD's to march wearing masquerade masks to preserve their identity while still looking good? That way closeted folk could take a somewhat safer stand while still striking out for their rights.

[bimini1]

To the extent that I let others bother me when they "judge","dismiss", or "harrass" me, I am cooperating with them in creating a world of misery.

Folks judge each other because the alternative, accepting differences, would take them into the ground of accepting their own perceived "differences" from the crowd. Fear of that discomfort is the energy source of tossing barbs at others.

Whenever I take one of those barbs personally (i.e. react-inward), I validate and add to the negative energy that is directed my way. I become their accomplice in creating a world of misery. If I go so far to react-outwardly in a hurt, or reactionary, or aggressive manner in response to the barb, I am co-creating that world of misery more obviously and urgently.

If the rude behaviour is just that, and not actual threat, or violence, then forgiveness, or benign pity (sadness-for-them) is the most positive or neutral response.

After all, its MY PARTY and they don't have to join it, do they?

Someone mentioned an "attitude shift." Consider this, could their discomfort with my presentation cause me to add my own self-judgment and discomfort to the mix ? Could I be crediting my self-judgment to their account, rather than owning the fact that I have my own fears and self-judgment to work through ? If this is true, I may even go so far to see judgment, and harassment from others when there is none at all...just innocent behaviors that trigger my own (denied?) self-judgment.

Roberta

I agree, you create your own reality. During a few of my very limited exposures with going out dressed, the responses I got depended on my spiritual mind set at the time. I went outside once a year for 3 years from 2003-2005.

The 1st time I had been in a highly meditative state for several months before and was actively practising love and acceptance of ALL, even people's negative attitudes. I was at a state were I truly believed everone is doing the best they can from their own view of consciousness. I had alot of peace in my life. I went out and it seemed all I got was positivity. Alot of 'wow you look great' comments. A few gawks some stares that did not really bother me.

Over the next two years I gradually backslid from that mind state and the next 2 outings just went down hill from there. Yes I still got some good reactions but I tended to start to focus on the negative ones and yes it led to misery and going completely back in the closet. I have returned to meditation and positivity no matter what is thrown at me and am going to try another outing when I feel the time is right.

Bottom line, no matter how far we go at societal acceptance, there is always going to be someone who won't accept it. Always. You must accept that too.

[Suzy Harrison]

Well, since you asked..

March 12, 2022 will be that day.

Hey, we all have to set goals, Barbra. Just a bit of fun... I ask your question all the time every single day when I see ladies in pants.

Well, as we say in Australia, "Buggar" - because I heard the end of the world was coming in December 2012

I even understand that K-Mart is going to have an End of the World Clearance Sale

[Suzy Harrison]

Anyway, I must say that all the gays had to fight for what they now have - so good for them. Also I've been to a few gay bars and always found them very accepting - nice people.

[battybattybats]

I agree, you create your own reality. During a few of my very limited exposures with going out dressed, the responses I got depended on my spiritual mind set at the time. I went outside once a year for 3 years from 2003-2005....

Bottom line, no matter how far we go at societal acceptance, there is always going to be someone who won't accept it. Always. You must accept that too.

I feel an important distinction must be made here. Your confidence and sureity will of course make a massive difference just as in all other things. But no-one is reponsible for the way others treat them.

You suggest there will always be someone who doesn't accept? I say only so much as there are some who don't accept the physical existance of the Moon as an orbital body of rock or that the Earth is round or that the Sun is the centre of the solar system.

Yes there are some people who still won't accept those things. A tiny quaint humurous yet insignificant handful of crackpots. That is the achievable level of acceptance that we here can gain and that we have every right to demand.

No matter how balanced your chakras or how much you've meditated or how confidant you are still try and be safe. Take sensible precautions.

[jennifer41356]

its already happened to me and its now going on 13 yrs, I embrace every minute of it

and if you feel gay and lesbian folks have all the rights, then you may not really know any. Here in Dallas, they are the biggest supporters of the TG community, we all work together

[bimini1]

I feel an important distinction must be made here. Your confidence and sureity will of course make a massive difference just as in all other things. But no-one is reponsible for the way others treat them.

You suggest there will always be someone who doesn't accept? I say only so much as there are some who don't accept the physical existance of the Moon as an orbital body of rock or that the Earth is round or that the Sun is the centre of the solar system.

Yes there are some people who still won't accept those things. A tiny quaint humurous yet insignificant handful of crackpots. That is the achievable level of acceptance that we here can gain and that we have every right to demand.

No matter how balanced your chakras or how much you've meditated or how confidant you are still try and be safe. Take sensible precautions.

Yes we have every right to demand acceptance and we aught to have it but. Where I am there is only a tiny quaint that DO accept something like this. Where I am it seems disgust with this kind of thing is at an all time high. I see it everyday and have learned to pretty much turn a deaf ear to it as much as I can. Maybe I am in the wrong part of the world (southern USA). And you will be suprised by how many folk have no idea about anything in the Universe/solar system.

Its up to us to do it but I don't think your average CDer wants to do it. Its not worth it to him. I stand corrected if I am wrong that most of us are in a deep closet phase. And why is that?

I once heard Capt. James T. Kirk tell someone, there are a million things in the universe you can have & a million things you can't have and yes it hurts to look at it but that is the way it is.