I read here often and am surprised by the number of ladies here that make comments about how they were pleased that they were treated like a real GG.
Is society really that bad that when you are dressed you don't think you are going to be treated equal?
I don't see it because I am GG, but I treat each individual according to how they act toward me and others, not by how they dress or who they are dressed as. Am I one of the odd balls of society?
[SIZE="3"]Ms Tori Jones [/SIZE]
First - thank you from al of us for being polite to people
Also - It is better to give others a fair chance as you do.
The thing is, a lot of folks just don't understand anything outside the "norm" so they don't know how to react when they detect a CD. They laugh or act stupid.
You have obviously been brought up with good manners. While you are looking for the good in people, a lot of folks are looking for the bad.
Thanks for being a friend.
You see, we often hear about a CD being ridiculed so when we don't have to endure that, it is a relief. That is part of the reason we all try so hard to "pass".
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
Unfortunately, yes. People will often whisper or laugh when confronted with something unusual, and CDs fall into that category. Also, a lot of people don't realise that CDs want to be treated as women, and don't know what to do, which makes them act oddly.
Remember always that you have not only the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one. - Eleanor Roosevelt
The most universal quality is diversity. - Michel de Montaigne
You do not truly own anything you cannot carry at a dead run!
‘Them as can do, has to do for them as can’t. And someone has to speak up for
them as has no voices.’ - Terry Pratchett, The Wee Free Men
I just look at the deaths and bashings of the last fortnight.
Yes it is.
Then I look at my friends at my birthday party.
No it's not.
The answer is yes and no. Parts are, parts aren't.
We need more of one and less of the other, less laughter less bashings less deaths and more happiness, hugs friendship and acceptance.
Most people I've interacted with have had a good attitude about it (like you). I've only been laughed at (to my knowledge) when I first started going out and had a lot to learn about makeup and colors, what clothes looked best etc... I'm also in Austin which may not be typical society!
I don't believe I've ever "passed" and no one really has been rude to me.
You are one of the few! At least I think so. I remember once being at a gas station with my friend. He was in front of me,paid for his stuff and left out the door to the car. He's a good looking guy. Had long hair, pulled back in a pony-tail and had the sides of his head shaved. After he left, the clerk started commenting on how he looked , along the lines of :"what the hell is wrong with people like that. He looked awful . I don't know why people present themselves like that. JUST AWFUL!" and then a customer by the coffee machine piped in by saying :" yeah, your telling me. I don't know what this world is coming to". I was so completely FLOORED! And this was my friend of all people. As I was paying for my snacks, she tried to get me involved in this conversation, wanting me to comment. At that point I got so mad I gruffly said :" You think he's bad, I wonder what you would think of me! I'm an F-ing crossdresser! What do you think of that!" They didn't say anything, and I turned around and left. It's amazing what people will say behind your back. This clerk was SO pleasant and nice when she was waiting on my friend....that is until he left.
I know I'm cycnical. It's just that I see a lot of crap like this between humans.
So I like dressing like girl. BIG DEAL!
No, Tori, you're not..Originally Posted by MsToriJones
Certainly it's the norm I've encountered?
Batty is right that there's good and bad, but what you're talking about is, IMHO, primarily a symptom of the way we see ourselves...
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
There are indeed a lot of people out there that will accept you for who you are, although there are more out there ready to ridicule you. Sure, it may only be in ones mind as mere paranoia, but from my personal experience, my paranoia was well founded. I've had people call me names, sneer at me, laugh and some, even try to hurt me... It's a terrible world sometimes... But you can't ignore the good out there and think that everyone's out to get you, because they're not.
Anyways, I've met some great people out there and it makes me so happy to know that there's always someone ready with an open mind! :3
Forgive me... I may have rambled off topic there, but that's how I feel about it. ^^
There are whole veins of diamonds in thine eyes, Might furnish crowns for all the Queens of earth.
From my own experience, I'd say that no, society is not that bad, but our FEAR that it will treat is poorly IS that bad? Does that makes sense? I think many of us are afraid that people will be mean or rude but to date I personally have not seen it.
I think society treats us like crap, but when that stops it is at a midway where we blend enough that they don't care much, simply cause your less noticable. Passing and being equal somewhat is better than passing and still being treated like crap... I think, yep, came out right, I think.
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Wow the replies are great! It seems there are a variety of thoughts on the subject.
It seems that there isn't one answer, it depends on where you are to what you have experienced. I hope if any of you are in Raleigh, NC that we see each other. I promise you will at least get a smile from me.
[SIZE="3"]Ms Tori Jones [/SIZE]
We have had a lot of discussions over the years about the prevalance of gender identity issues throughout the general population...
My personal impression is that our issues are far more commont that we think - that is, an awful lot of people have urges/feelings that don't fit neatly into the male/female black/white model. And they are uncomfortable with these feelings, and are especially uncomfortable with others who they see acting on similar feelings. I can't imagine any reason that a man who is completely comfortable with himself would be upset with a crossdresser or a homosexual. It would mean that there are more women available for the straight guy...but is that all that he wants?
Anyway, it is easy to make fun of/hate people who are different and a large fraction of our organized religions encourage us to exclude them.
So on the rare occasions when I go out dressed and women smile the "woman to woman" smile to me - I am ecstatic!. If I pass a guy and he checks out my boobs or tush - wow! When I am dressed I feel that I am a woman, and I absolutely love being accepted as one. And I comfort myself with the thought that those who snicker or are mean really just wish they had my courage/confidence.
-jj
Last edited by jenniferj; 02-19-2008 at 11:21 PM.
Tori, I just flash em a smile and be on my way.Oh and you get one of these.
Thanks for being you.
ms tori we all love peaple like you. I would love to meet you, I like your corsets.
Unfortunately, I don't think good manners and being courteous to others is taught, or enforced, very much anymore. It doesn't take an "extraordinary" issue like ours to be the subject of ridicule. I work in a high stress field where pretty much all my co-workers are 'type-A's," and there's constant sniping of others behind their backs. Now I'm not saying that's prevalent throughout society, just that it's not endemic to us gals. Course I live in New York, so maybe I'm just jaded lol!
I can answer this with a little story...
A few years ago, I took a straight male friend, Al, with me to the Aids Walk and a weekend with my best friend and his husband. We had a great weekend and had a lot of fun.
Upon returning, I had dinner with Al and another straight male. As we were talking the other male was joking about his weekend and Al stated, "You think your weekend was rough, I spent mine with a bunch of faggots!" and LAUGHED! I was so appalled I freaked out! I stated that those "faggots" treated him like family and he seemed to have no problem eating their food and accepting their hospitality! Then I informed him how the woman he had been flirting with was actually a man and he had NO idea! I also pointed out that not all of them were gay least of all the man he had been flirting with!
I think that a lot of people will say things just to make it sound as if they are better than other people or to have others join in on their "humor". I think its disgusting that people don't have the nerve to state how they really feel. Truth is, Al was more insecure about his own desires and wanted to make sure the other man "understood" just how "straight" he was! I left muttering a bunch of obscenities.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[SIZE="3"]"We're all born naked. Everything we wear is drag," said Boy George
[/SIZE]
Tori, you seem like someone I would like to know personally. As a GG you seem to have much compassion and understanding for tg's and all others who don't quite fit into society's norm. I certainly agree with your way of thinking, that everyone deserves respect because we all share the same planet, which makes us all sisters and brothers.
I have been dressing for almost 48 years and have just recently come out to a select few who have accepted me for who I am and not what is expected by some social dictate. I live in a western suburb of Milwaukee and have been out en femme on several occasions. I have noticed the reactions of people (mostly in the burbs) as being standoffish when seeing a man in women's clothes.
It doesn't bother me what someone may say behind my back because I may never see them again, and if someone says something derogatory directly to me, i usually have a comeback that will put them in their place. 99.9% of the GG's (and men) that I have dealt with in public while en femme or in drab have treated me with respect, and I consider the other .01% to be ignorant of life.
I'm glad to know that there are people such as you (GG's and Guys) who are tolerant and non judgemental of others. Wouldnt it be great if we could convince the rest of the world? Luv and
I'd agree on that, and also add that there are people out there who would be rude/mean to others in male mode, it isn't limited to CD's.
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
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My take on the subject is that:
- a small percentage of the general population is willing to accept us, maybe even embrace us
- another small percentage hates us and will persecute us if given the opportunity
- of the remaining majority, some don't approve of us and wish we would crawl back in our closets, but they don't feel so strongly about that they wish to do anything about it, and so they grant us grudging tolerance
- the rest don't care one way or the other and are willing to tolerate us
NOTE: there's a big difference between acceptance and tolerance
If you pass very well, they treat you like a GG. But last Saturday was a bad day for me, went out and my white hair - a little - showed under my wig and I had some hair stubble on my neck. So I got read. 3 people who read me didn't laugh, they just called me "Sir." - Pisses me off when I'm in drag. Then later 3 guy teenager laughed at me but they probably read me by the guilt / underconfidence I had at that moment. I guess you just gotta stay calm.
One of my boyfreinds and I were talking about what would happen "IF" his coworkers found out about his interest in me.
He told me that there were a few people that would actually try to get him fired, can you believe it. Just because he likes girls like me instead of girls like Ms Tori.
I was not suprised though. Some people are so unhappy or miserable they want everybody to be klike them. I feel like that is the real issue. Some people actually like themselves, and some hate themselves.
They see us as a threat because we are WHO we are and like it. They hate WHO they are so they are mean.
Read my monthly column On URNA And The Gender Society
Real women were built to be admired. Why be ashamed or hurt if you admire a well crafted copy or immitation?
It's always been my opinion (right or wrong) that the people who are the most anti about CDers or gays are the ones who have the biggest issues and insecurities within themselves about those issues and need to prove to themselves that they aren't that way. Either that, or they're taught to believe it's wrong from an early age and they've never thought about it, just accepted what was taught to them.
"I see your true colors shining through, your true colors, and that's why I love you,
so don't be afraid to let them show, your true colors, true colors are beautiful, like a rainbow"
"Without change,something sleeps deep inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken!"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You gals are wonderful!
I think if more in society would focus on their own happiness and less on what others do that is different from themselves that thinks would be happier overall. one of you made comment about the ones who complain not being happy.....I think that is so true. sad for them
*hugs* to you all
[SIZE="3"]Ms Tori Jones [/SIZE]
....and this is all he talks about. He called me in his office once and told me about a show he thought was sick on MTV about some guys dressing in women's clothes. He got me all depressed and then I really thought about it and said to myself me thinks he protests to much. Ev'ry time U turn around he is talking about some guy in women's clothes. Why waste my time bieng unnerved by him?
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