Are we afraid to be thought of as gay?

[Annie D]

This started out to be a post for "Sales Associate" when I realized that perhaps what I was going to say could become another topic of conversation. I feel so much more comfortable with women sales associates that I asked myself why and what I have come to the conclusion that when dealing with men, I feel as though they might be thinking that I am "gay". I sincerely do not have any anti-feelings about anyone who is gay but do you somehow put an asterick* next to your crossdressing handle? I had an acquaintance in MCDC who once told me that before visiting his physician he told him, "I'm a heterosexual crossdresser, do you have a problem with that?" As a result of hearing this, I too, began proclaiming my heterosexuality to my sisters in the organization and was answered "me too!" As I become more confident with myself as Annie, I don't really care what anyone may think.

As I become braver in my adventures out of my house, I no longer feel being labeled gay but the denial is still there in the back of my mind. If I purchase my clothing from a male sales associate my thought is that they think that dressed as a woman that I just might be gay and that thought makes me somewhat uncomfortable. When I purchase from a woman, I do not consciously feel that they have any thoughts about my sexuality.

I think that many of us have gone past these feelings and I am just beginning to get past them myself. Once I get past all the barriers of feelings of guilt and inferiority, then I will be ready to venture out as I please, dressed any way I please.

What do you think?

[shirley1]

hadnt thought about that one - but yes i think that could be the reason some of us feel more comfortable being served by ggs - i think its human nature to sometimes think if your a guy whos into cding people are gonna think your trying to attract men - but we all know its not true - well most of us on this forum at least !

[Joy Carter]

Annie this is probably the biggest reason why most don't go out dressed. And the reason why are not liked, in general. Some of my friends I hung out with in my early adult years, all said you had to be gay to dress like chick. That it had to be only a sex thing. They rationalized that dressing was for only attracting a guy. No body knew of me then. When one of them found out a couple of years ago, that was the first comment out of his mouth.

[teresa jeen]

im on the same page as joy, she is in the same belief, that we all just have a desire to be ourselves, not so much as what society thinks we need to be.

[jennifer41356]

I think it is also a reason many dont go to gay bars, but look for lesbian bars, I find gay guys to be very sweet, they usually want to know all about us, why we dress, when we started , how often, things like that

[AmberTG]

This is an interesting question, one that I've thought about from time to time. This subject has been discussed here before and I found it quite interesting how many people here are paranoid about someone else thinking that they're gay.
Myself, I could care less what someone else thinks when I'm out in public. The way I currently present myself, I'm sure that most people who bother to think about it at all think I'm gay. My answer to that is, "so what?" I can't see what difference it could possibly make if someone thinks I'm gay. Most people see gay people every day in our current society, people that can be casually identified as gay (whether they actually are or not). It's not like someone's going to walk up to you in public and "hit on you". If you're going to places where gay people hang out and socialise, why would you be surprised if you occasionally get "hit on"? But then, gay men aren't interested in cross-dressers mostly, they're interested in other men.
Anyway, just for the record, I prefer the sexual company of women. I have several gay aquaintances, their sex life doesn't make any difference to me. They're just people, like you and me

[docrobbysherry]

I'm a fairly recent CDer. My whole life before then, not knowing anything about CDs, and very little about gays, I just assumed CDs were either gay or bi.

[bimini1]

Funny, the ironic thing is that to be gay is more accepted by folks than this is. It might be easier if I was gay!! But I can't make something into reality that is not.

But yet the 1st thing we are quick to say is we are not gay. And then plenty of us are attracted to fantasys about being a woman that involves sex with a man. But to us it is not he same as being gay, in our mind we are a hetero woman with a hetero man. All sorts of variations on a theme out there and it takes ALL kinds. Go fig.

[Ellie]

I understand what you mean Annie.

I've felt more comfortable dealing with women at the checkout counter long before I started dressing for just about all my purchases. The only time I liked to deal with a guy is when I was buying condoms, etc.

Not so much because I thought they might think anything about me one way or the other but because I like woman.

[Vicky_Scot]

People assume that we are gay because we the transgendered have been stuck onto the end of the gay community because society did not know where else to put us.

I have visited a good few gay venues dressed and I would say that we are tolerated by the gay community rather than accepted.

But to answer your question.

Are we afraid to be thought of as gay?

I assume the question is directed towards people who are dressed whilst shopping.

Afraid no ,what is there to be scared of that a sales assistant my think your gay. They can think what they want. I may look at the sales assistant and think he is gay or just a complete twat but do you think he is afraid about what I think......No

They just want your money.

Xx Vicky xX

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Annie D

I have gone the whole route, most of us have. First when we dressed as a female we used it to releave our self for what ever reason. Then I went to a drag club met a fellow Cd er and lived with him/her for 6 months. We experamented, and what I learned is that sex between anyone M+F M+M or F+F is just that, it is an animal instink , for me anyway. Everyone will take there own path, I am now living with a beautiful women that love all of my female and male modes. I am one of the lucky ones to have such a women. When you are a man you do man things, and vice a versa as a women, I love being a women. For u you will have to take your own path. Good luck.

Josephine

[Nicki B]

..I found it quite interesting how many people here are paranoid about someone else thinking that they're gay.

..I have come to the conclusion that when dealing with men, I feel as though they might be thinking that I am "gay".
.......If I purchase my clothing from a male sales associate my thought is that they think that dressed as a woman that I just might be gay and that thought makes me somewhat uncomfortable.

But yet the 1st thing we are quick to say is we are not gay.

As a relative newcomer to this site, I too am repeatedly amazed at just how much deep-seated homophobia seems to be displayed by so many people here, primarily it seems, those based in the US... It was something I was already thinking of starting a thread about.

Much of it (but not all, by any means) seems to be fuelled by ignorance. But the concept that gay = bad seems almost a given here and, tbh, I find it very offensive?

If someone assumes I'm gay when they meet me out, well, I'll happily take that as a compliment. The LGB movement has fought long and hard for recognition, equality and fairness - those of us who use the T-label often, quite frankly ride on their coat-tails. I'm proud to be associated with that.


I do also find the concept that, as someone who tries to be taken for a woman yet is sexually attracted to women, I'm 'straight' more than faintly silly...

[Eugenie]

Are we afraid to be thought of as gay?

Sorry

What's wrong with being Gay? Why being thought of as gay would be a problem?

How can we expect not to be subject of discrimination if we are ourselves having a discriminatory attitude towards another group of people, in the present case gays?

I know, the excuse is "I have no negative feelings towards gays, but I wouldn't want to be thought of as gay."

Isn't that a non sequitur?

In LGBT organisations, the T stands for "Transgender" how do we expect them to keep defending our cause if so many of us keep flagging their heterosexuality as a sign of "normality"?

I work with some of these LGBT organizations in the frame of antidiscrimination activities at the European level. They are doing a tremendous work that will help us all. It would be sensible to support them as they support us.

This post isn't addressed to any of you in particular nor limited to this thread, it is a general soap box expression on this subject.

Eugenie

[Holly]

...If I purchase my clothing from a male sales associate my thought is that they think that dressed as a woman that I just might be gay and that thought makes me somewhat uncomfortable. When I purchase from a woman, I do not consciously feel that they have any thoughts about my sexuality...

So, let me ask you a question; if a male sales associate is earning a living selling women's clothing, do you associate him with being gay? Honestly, it makes about as much sense as you believing he would think that you are gay by purchasing them. And even if he he was, would it make a bit of difference to you? Would you think less of him because he was thoughtful and helpful?

[Vicky_Scot]

Hi Annie D

I have gone the whole route, most of us have. First when we dressed as a female we used it to releave our self for what ever reason. Then I went to a drag club met a fellow Cd er and lived with him/her for 6 months. We experamented, and what I learned is that sex between anyone M+F M+M or F+F is just that, it is an animal instink , for me anyway. Everyone will take there own path, I am now living with a beautiful women that love all of my female and male modes. I am one of the lucky ones to have such a women. When you are a man you do man things, and vice a versa as a women, I love being a women. For u you will have to take your own path. Good luck.

Josephine

Speak for yourself dear.

I never experimented and never went the whole route.

Xx Vicky xX

[annekathleen]

Ive seen this topic resurface once in a while.
So what if a crossdresser might be gay, or might be bi.
To each their own.
Sometimes when you look at a normally dressed man,
you cannot always accurately detect his sexuality.
Sometimes when you look at a crossdresser,
you cannot always accurately detect his sexuality.

[Sarah89]

I'm not afraid of being thought of as gay, Its more of being afraid to be thought of as a "dirty pervert"

I dont care what people think of me really in terms of sexuallity.
Mainly because sexuallity doesnt exist for me, Im not going to say I like one gender over another just because of their biological design, because its kinda sexist.

But if sombody wants to label me gay to get a better understanding, then so be it.

[Nicki B]

So what if a crossdresser might be gay, or might be bi.

So, I think we ought to actively discourage homophobic attitudes - so many people here don't seem to even realise they are doing it, or that it's very hurtful - particularly given that we do have members here who identify as gay?

[Kate Simmons]

What is in a name or title really? A lot of times it betrays the inner fears of the person saying it or thinking it. I could care less myself, stick and stones and all of that because it really does not affect my self perception and I know who I am. I'm also proud to have friends in the LGBT community and I love them regardless of their pursuasion because they are true friends. Besides in a pure sense, one of the definitions of being "gay" is being happy and I'm definately happy to be myself.

[Sharon]

If someone assumes I'm gay -- I don't care.
If someone assumes I'm a crossdresser -- I don't care.
If someone assumes I'm from Mars -- I don't care.

Why is it so important to exclaim to everyone what you are not? Heck, most of you would lie through your teeth if someone ever asks if you like to wear women's clothing.

How many other biases do you people have? Geez, you would think men who wear panties would be a little more enlightened in their attitudes towards others.

[Emily Ann Brown]

I suppose when married I wanted to be seen as "straight" because I didn't want to have to fight the "Do you want a man sexually?" question from her. Turned out I did anyway.....got referred to as the QUEER "WOMAN" often during arguments. So much for that.

When I started meeting sisters I figured out quickly that I needed to let my "expectations" be known up front so misunderstandings did not ruin a perfectly good meeting. You be who you are and I'll be who I am and we can be friends, just not lovers.

Today......think of me what you wish. I know who I am. I sometimes go to gay bars just because I know I will be at least tolerated and will not end up in a big hassle. If I'm shopping in drab I'm shopping, I don't offer any explanation....why should I??? In hindsight, I doubt we gain any stature in the public's eye whether we are known as straight or bi or gay.....we are just thought of as weird.


Emily Ann

[Joy Carter]

Looking a GG's they them selves, and GM's (some now. M & F) have sexualized women in this society. So in the uninitiated mind, would naturally think we are gay. And not to knock anyone here, some of us dress like we are trolling for a date. Not that you are. You GM's, think back to when your sex hormones, controlled your view of GG's. And you GG's, think back to when you were (if you did now) dressed to attract. So it would be a reasonable assumption to some, that we where gay. That we where looking to attract a partner. Now that being said. "Disclaimer" This post of mine in no way has anything to do with anyone living or dead. Any similarities to anyone is purely coincidental.

[yms]

This whole issue gets complicated for me when I think about it from the other side of the street.

Being "homosexual" means preferring as a sex partner someone with the same genitals. Now, unless you see two people having sex, and can see their genitals, how would you know their sexual orientation?

Yet we see "butch" women and effeminate men and we say "she's a lesbian" or "he's gay." In other words, we see their gender presentation, not their sexual preference.

Even some of the outdated euphemisms for homosexual - "light in the loafers" comes to mind - speak to outward public mannerisms. If you ever peruse the gay personals, you will often see phrases like "straight-acting," implying a conventional masculine appearance.

Of course, no one ever asks an effeminate gay man or a butch lesbian if he or she is transgendered.

Most of us, when we die, will be able to count on one hand the number of people we had sex with, but we "have gender" with everyone we ever come in contact with. In my mind, gender is the more encompassing concept, and within that are sub-sets based on choices of sexual partners. We are attracted first by and to gender, not genitals.

[RobertaFermina]

In a world of one or two, there is no need for labels.
In a world of millions, how could we interdepend and flourish without them ?
They suck, and we need them !?

I could live without having to know who is gay or straight.
In a world without labels, I might be free of so many expectations of others and of myself.
I might live in the moment where anything can happen.

Labels...I am <blank>, she is <blankety-blank>, he is <oh bother!>.......they are a life sentence !


pun intended

[yms]

Sorry

What's wrong with being Gay? Why being thought of as gay would be a problem?

How can we expect not to be subject of discrimination if we are ourselves having a discriminatory attitude towards another group of people, in the present case gays?


Eugenie

Good one Eugenie!