At Least Make The Effort**

[Vicky_Scot]

While away for my Tranny weekend I visited a few clubs and bars.

In the clubs I came across other girls. Most were very nicely dressed and looked good......here is where the claws come out, Vicky the bitch is rearing her head for the first time...............BUT!!!!!!

In one particular club, two girls and I use the word loosely.....very looslely..............came in and honestly they made myself and the other ladies in my company cringe. I could go into detail about them but that still would not put over how bad they presented themselve.........you will just have to take my word for it.

I hope I do not offend anyone but saying they were just a Man in frock is being very kind indeed.

It got me thinking.

From afar I may pass but close up others would have to be the judge of that......... But if not and that the case was that I was read a mile away, the one thing I would hope that people who I encountered said was yes that's a guy but at least she made the effort to look good.

That's all I can ask for.

So to people out there "passing" is not the be all and end all, if you make the effort and look good, that counts for a lot.

Sorry for the rant...........I feel better now.

Xx Vicky xX

[Ashley in Virginia]

If they were happy with it, what does it matter?

[Michelle Hart]

As many here know I go to the village to unwind every few weeks. There is this "girl" who is also there a lot. The problem is this person ALWAYS wears the exact same thing. In all the years I have been going to this club, I have never seen her wear anything but this worn out red dress with a ratty blonde wig, with no makeup ever.

Ok so some people are "happy or satisfied" with this but when others make comments to me about it, I'ts pretty embarrasing. I get associated with this person who is always falling down drunk stumbling around in a ratty old dress.

Girls THAT IS NOT FAIR.

I look great, live fultime, and have spent a small fortune on my wardrobe yet all the work I put into my look is tarnished by the deeds of a few. I know life is'nt fair but when people out there like this "girl" make my life more difficult I'm not a fan of ......."I'm just expressing myself"

[Kate Simmons]

Not sure what you are trying to say here Hon. Perhaps those are their best efforts. How you ever spoken to them about it? They may appreciate some helpful suggestions.

[DemonicDaughter]

Not sure what you are trying to say here Hon. Perhaps those are their best efforts. How you ever spoken to them about it? They may appreciate some helpful suggestions.

I agree! Maybe they are new at it or don't have a forum to go to for help. Maybe you should write down the web address for the forums and give it to them saying how supportive it is and how much its helped you.

[Michelle Hart]

What I am saying is most if not all of us put an incredible amount of EFFORT into LOOKING like a woman.

Each of us has our own standards as to what a woman SHOULD look like, yet just putting a dress that fits poorly and a wig is not "effort".

Reading a book or two about makeup, learning to walk in heels, doing your best to mimic feminine movment and posture is effort. Acting like a female would in a public place, trying to speak in a feminine sound and style is effort. Doing things that women do and learning HOW to be ladylike is effort.

Hormones and surgeries, legal hurdles and buying more than one outfit is effort. Getting your nails done or at the very least painting them is effort.

Throwing on a tattered dress and a cheap wig is not effort.

I'm not trying to be rude or disresectful in any way, but if your going to play shouldn't you at least try to learn the rules of the game?

[Cai]

What if that's how she wants to look? I'd probably pass better as a guy if I wore ratty t-shirts and baggy cargo pants - but I'm happier with my look in polos and jeans.

The point is - everyone has a right to wear what they want. That includes you working to look ladylike, that includes me in polo shirts, that includes her in her red dress.

[Michelle Hart]

I agree! Maybe they are new at it or don't have a forum to go to for help. Maybe you should write down the web address for the forums and give it to them saying how supportive it is and how much its helped you.

As many here know I go to the village to unwind every few weeks. There is this "girl" who is also there a lot. The problem is this person ALWAYS wears the exact same thing. In all the years I have been going to this club, I have never seen her wear anything but this worn out red dress with a ratty blonde wig, with no makeup ever.

I've been going there since 1997. I know the owner and ALL the staff, many whom are very close freinds. Plus it has an awsome atmophere.

I've spoken to her but "she" is usually so drunk it is a complete waste of time.

[Michelle Hart]

What if that's how she wants to look? I'd probably pass better as a guy if I wore ratty t-shirts and baggy cargo pants - but I'm happier with my look in polos and jeans.

The point is - everyone has a right to wear what they want. That includes you working to look ladylike, that includes me in polo shirts, that includes her in her red dress.

So you wear the SAME thing every day? Do you ever iron them?

It's not about WHAT she has on, the topic was people who put NO effort into their apearance.

If you want to look like a slacker thats fine. Not meant as an insult just a statement.

The "J Crew" look can actually be pretty chic, if you do it right. I've seen boys and girls who look incredible in that style. Even "Heroin Chic" can look apealing on some people. Personally I'm not a fan but it can look good.

[Maria2004]

I make a lot of effort and technically passable but get read anyway and don't care, don't go to bars when I go out. I met a couple once at a Tri-Ess meeting, sitting quietly hand in hand, the CD was wearing a simple skirt and top, no wig or make up, I think that was all she had, surrounded by all these maxed out CDs ready for our annual xmas party. So I struck up a conversation. It soon became evident that she was happy to at least wear what she did have and be with us, sadly she couldn't come to the party(for her own personal reasons). I wish she could have and I would have gone anywhere in Atlanta with her, she was a sister doing what she could with what she had and enjoying it.

[DemonicDaughter]

In one particular club, two girls and I use the word loosely.....very looslely..............came in and honestly they made myself and the other ladies in my company cringe. I could go into detail about them but that still would not put over how bad they presented themselve.........you will just have to take my word for it.

I was specifically referring to this statement. I believe the "woman" in the red dress is most likely an alcoholic and possibly suffers from depression and thus doesn't care about their appearance. Or has her own issues. Shy of having a psychology degree there is nothing you can do for her. I was merely pointing out that as for the original statement of these "two girls" perhaps they are new and would welcome some sisterly advice.

[Michelle Hart]

Sorry DD I thought you were refering to what I had said so my reponse was indirectly for you. With that said it's not WHAT you have on as to how you carry yourself


Maria a CD convention is not the same a walmart.....

If someone want's to act a fool thats fine with me but I don't have to accept it nor condone such behavior. I shouldn't be guilty by association either.

In the general public when people see "a man in a frock" they cringe and the ridicule and assumption begins.

If on the other hand an unusually tall woman who is not as "delicatly" featured as other girls is seen she is largely ignored.

those that have that "I don't care" attitude are the ones that people refer to and judge ALL of us by. In our case a bad apple does spoil the bunch.

Personally I think the "goth" look is pretty cool but some of those kids really do a lot of damage to their freind because of their ATTITUDE not their dark brooding.

The same goes for us, walk around looking for atention and it will find you.

[Carrie f]

I agree people should make the effort, but that's my upbringing. Yours too, it sounds like. Crossdressers are just like everyone else, some people take pride in their appearance and some don't.

Although the lady in the red dress sounds like she may have deeper problems involving addiction, if she's loased all the time.

[Maria2004]

Maria a CD convention is not the same a walmart.....

If someone want's to act a fool thats fine with me but I don't have to accept it nor condone such behavior. I shouldn't be guilty by association either.

In the general public when people see "a man in a frock" they cringe and the ridicule and assumption begins.

The person I was referring to was not acting a fool, and I wouldn't condone it either, but I would have gone to Walmart with her if she wanted to. I don't believe the public cringes at the sight of a man in a frock and there are many members on this forum that can attest to that from personal experience. The person I was talking about was a very lovely soul, dressing as best she could in a skirt and top, because I have the where with all to dress completely feminine somehow makes her less? Not in my book.

[Julie York]

Married man in the closet, daren't tell the wife, can't buy clothes, can't go anywhere, daren't use makeup, hasn't told or shared his secret with anyone in his whole life.

So he keeps one sad red dress and one even sadder motheaten wig in the toolbox of his car. The two things he salvaged one night at a Halloween party.

And once a week he goes out and meets all these lovely adorable friendly people in a club. Though they don't talk to him much so he gets drunk instead.

And then sneaks back home again, hides away his pathetic things and climbs into bed.




(Anyone got a tissue?)

[secretlypsycho]

[SIZE="2"]I have to say, as a group in society who preach "acceptance", some crossdressers are incredibly judgemental! If you want to be free to wear whatever you want to wear, perhaps you should afford others the same courtesy?

I shouldn't be guilty by association either.

This doesn't simply apply to your situation - it is true across all of society.... many women fear men because of the actions of a few... many people look down on teenage mothers because of the few who fit the stereotype... and so on & so on. It may not be fair, but it's just how it is - and you're not going to change it so might as well get used to it imo.

[/SIZE]

[Sonia Kiss]

I also like to see people make the effort, but that's just what I like. The "I" there is just me, I don't speak for everyone, and the "like" there means it is just my preference, not the limit of what I can deal with. I am in the very early stages of starting a real time social group and the following is a quote from material I have posted on my group web site:

Appearance matters sometimes. It shouldn't matter all of the time. Sometimes, some of us, with desperate desire to blend in public, want our trans sisters at our side to look "better" in some way--some way that we feel is the "right" way to look or act....

First of all, it really does matter in a few special cases. If you want to get into a posh night club, for example, you need to dress for it. These clubs explicitly advertise that proper dress is required. If your clothes aren't consistent with the look the club is going for, don't be indignant when you are turned away. In *most* cases though, in public places, in venues open to the general public, proper dress is not an issue, and if you feel uncomfortable standing next to someone, that is your problem, not theirs. Seriously, we're all adults, and we accept the consequences of how we dress. We can dress to blend, dress to impress, dress to express, and sometimes, dress the only way we want to, the only way we can, the only way we know how, in the only clothes we have, or--simply and unapologetically--the way we do. In *most* places, this is allowed. So get over it.

So there's my prepared statement. If you still don't like the way someone looks, you have options. First, you could discriminate. You could talk to the management about keeping this person out of the club, or better yet, fight against any pending legislation that would protect this person from discrimination. Second (reasonably now) say hi to this person. See if you can make friends with them enough to understand why they do what they do.

Sonia

[deja true]

I'm with you Psycho!

That worry of association is exactly what we hear from some new frantic members, before they calm down. It's the teen-age girl worry of not fitting in. What will my friends think? What will my neighbors think?

If the bar owners and other patrons are your friends ,as you say, they don't judge you by the looks or actions of the poor alcoholic 'man in a dress' . We want others to judge us on a case by case basis. The 'man in a dress' is probably being judged as a drunken fool, not as a tranny fool. Don't let it stress you so much. Bad for the forehead lines.

You've tried to help, but been rejected. There's not much you can do, except maybe keep trying if you want to. Either he'll get over it (with somebody's help) or he'll crash and burn. It's beneath you to be upset that his wrinkled dress makes your beautiful, expensive dress look bad.

Sympathy beats disgust any day.

deja

[Vicky_Scot]

Not sure what you are trying to say here Hon. Perhaps those are their best efforts. How you ever spoken to them about it? They may appreciate some helpful suggestions.

Believe me they were not the type to try and speak to.

You would have most likely ended up with a punch in the face.

Sorry but IMO there is no excuse for people to go out looking like they did.

Xx Vicky xX

[Tammygirl]

Hello Ladies,
Where I have always maintaned that when out in Public, Dressed, you should always put you best effored froward! However, wearing the samething everytime is a bit much! This not putting your best efford into to your dressing!
I want to pass as a woman! Sometime this is not always done! However, I have always been give the benifit of the dout. That MAYBE a man but, Dam SHE is well dressed! Not TRING to look you best puts a bad light on us who want to Pass! When the rare time I do get read, it's "See those people should stay in the closet!
Love all

[VtVicky]

Julie's post may well be on track. (tongue in cheek or not.)

Or, this kind of behavior, slovenly dress and drunkeness, may indicate a more serious condition. Intrapsychic ambivalence.

Consider the following: Someone strugging with crossdressing and homosexuality may well move in the direction of crossdressing in public. Only, to insure he isn't attractive enough to get hit on, (thereby not having to step over the line and face his questionable sexual identity.) he presents himself as a mess. To help him get this far he needs a lot of alcohol.

If he actually put the effort into looking half way decent, it would be harder for him to deny what he is afraid of.

Someone who is not well educated in the varieties of crossdressers, may well be panicky unnecessarily. If he, in fact, is exclusively heterosexual, but does not know what a significant percentage of us are also exclusively straight, he may be worried about what his interest in CDing means about his sexual identity. And, by dressing as a mess, he insures no one approaches him expecting him to be gay.

I think the suggestion to give him a note with the URL of this forum is a very good idea.

[Kate Simmons]

Basically, I have no control over what others do, nor do I want to. It's enough of a job managing myself. In any case, regardless of how others may dress or look, my self confidence is not rattled. I have my own comfort level and know who I am, regardless of what others may think and that includes anything in connection with other CDs.

[RobertaFermina]

I have seen girls much like the Red Dressed one you have described.

I have gotten to know one in particular. Behind the (garish and almost unvaried) dress and her dressing is a person with great difficulties fitting in, with several personal disabilities and challenges, and in lucid moments, all the beauty and inspiration that humanity can provide.

I could stand back and dissociate myself from such girls, or do what I would want done for me, approach, befriend, understand.

There are limits, though. I understand being standoffish when a gal is stumbling drunk. I pick my moments, and I have been rewarded.

Now when I see her, I know her story, I know I can't "fix" her, and I know, in her way, she is striving.

If someone approaches me and impugns me and her in the same breath, I know to stand up for myself, and how to tell the so-and-so not to judge a book by its cover.


Roberta

[TSchapes]

I remember going to a "Paradise Club" meeting in Cleveland OH. There was a girl there that was poorly dressed. I talked to her and found out she was disabled and lived in the projects. She was just glad she could afford the annual club fee. When she had come through the door at the hall they had rented, she was greeted, kissed and hugged. I don't recall any shunning going on.

By all means dress as well as you can. But, these are your standards not everyone else's. I wonder where the competition gene lives on the chromosome? The 'X' part or the 'Y' part, hmm...

We are a community, but we are not attached at the hip.

Nothing should reflect badly on us anymore than how we reflect badly on the GG community.

Again, where's the love the understanding, and the willingness to learn?

I'm going to put a bra on and shut down.

Love, Tracy

[Michelle Hart]

I think some clarification is needed. How many of you or us have heard all about how "deviant" we are or how "perverted" or even "sick" we are. Does it make you PROUD to be thought of that way?

Well how did we get thoses labels? Do you know?

Tha ACTIONS OF A FEW!

Everybody here wants to be loved and accepted as we are, thats fine and a good thing. However there are those among us who by THEIR ACTIONS affect how WE are percieved.

Shanaynay is a caracature of how some of us act in public, I've seen it with my own eyes. It's shameful but some people have no self control. As for this "girl" I have spoken of she thinks she is better looking and more classy than anyone. I know a lot about her. It's a long story but suffice to say she is not an alcaholic or anything else. She just does'nt care, period.

She is the type who helped us get called deviants and perverts so it's not "tenage anghst" in my desire to be accepted. I live full time, go to work blah blah blah.

I'm not to happy about being called some "sicko" because she has no self control or puts no EFFORT into her apearance.

I don't know her and have nothing against her but why should I get lumped into the same group. Do you like it when you get called a homo or a sicko? Are you proud to be one? Think about it.