Thank you, Roberta. You gave a beautiful example of what is possible just by saying hello.
And, I imagine, when she sees you, she thinks "that person offered to be my friend."Originally Posted by RobertaFermina
Thank you, Roberta. You gave a beautiful example of what is possible just by saying hello.
And, I imagine, when she sees you, she thinks "that person offered to be my friend."
Public journal at wordpress.com: soniakeys.wordpress.com
Those actions of a few may very well include you Michelle, don't be so quick to judge others when you've dressed like this: -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...21&postcount=1
... and this: -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...3&postcount=30
In your first picture, those breast forms are so huge, in your face, quite embarrassing, I wonder how many people have seen that and thought... wow, she gives us such a bad name wearing forms that big.. and your second picture, well, it's not something you'd wear to a restaurant is it?!?
.gif "Big Roll Eyes")
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
WOW!!! I love that outfit!! It,s the sort of thing i,d wear!!Those actions of a few may very well include you Michelle, don't be so quick to judge others when you've dressed like this: -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...3&postcount=30 well, it's not something you'd wear to a restaurant is it?!?
The way we get that way is two-fold.
1. People project their own discomfort with an individual onto an entire group. We well know that one who screams pervert is quite often in personal agony because they harbor the very tendencies they decry!
2. Other individuals within that group take it personal.
Number 1. is sloppy generalization, and it is not my fault.
Number 2. is exaggerated self-importance or fear run amok, or something equally venal or fearful.
None of is is without blemish, and we are all at risk even if there were no "crude examples" of our lot.
What we are threatened by is the discomfort for individuals with people who are different. The fear is that the discomfort of others with our differences will lead to threats, or worse, acts against us.
By displacing that fear onto the "weak sisters" among us, we are behaving no differently than those who would threaten or harm us.
Want the world to be different ? Be different than the disappointing parts of the world !
By embracing the "weak sisters" and bearing compassion for those who would threaten us, we will begin to recognize that "there but for the grace of god, go I."
I feel quite certain that if we kill and eat our own, we are preparing our collective fate !
Viva Pogo!
Last edited by RobertaFermina; 03-07-2008 at 07:34 PM.
[COLOR=Red]Open your Heart :
So when you boil this all down to gravy, we're basically making the same argument I might make in guy mode, at a bar, watching a football game while wearing my Bears gear...some guy at another table has Bears gear on, too....and he's acting like a low-rent a-hole redneck boor....so I'm guilty by association. I get that, but I don't know this guy's situation, either. Maybe he's an alcoholic, and always acts this way. But I'm wondering if they think maybe I'm with him or something. We both have the same hat on, or something.
With transgendered people, it's a bit more complicated. Many would consider the whole lot of us to have something of a mental condition to begin with. Throw Julie's hypothetical situation in there, and you wind up with a truly pathetic person who's picking his way through life in an absolutely miserable state.
I really don't feel like the redneck at the next table makes me look bad, though. I think he makes him look bad. I still have my self-respect intact. I've never really been out dressed, but if I were in a bar, I'd be dressed rather nicely, and I'd look as good as I could. But I don't think the trailer park dingy one-dress birds-nest-hair hobo looking tramp at the table next to me makes me look bad. It makes her look bad.
And if Julie's anywhere near the mark on this (hypothetically), then all I can say is, "There but for the grace of God go I." It would be nice in a perfect world where all us "girls" dressed all nice and did our little make-up just right, but there is always a full spectrum of people, from really great to really dismal, in any demographic. And that includes us.
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
Logic Time:
If someone were truly perfect in their portrayal of a women, what is sometimes called a "Gender Illusionist", they could not possibly be thought of as a CD, because they are totally in the zone.
If true, they wouldn't be associated with any of these so-called riff-raft CDs, because they have pulled off the perfect presentation, i.e they are a girl, by all rights.
Now, this perfection is talked about a great deal here, and how hard it is to attain.
So...
Bottom line, is this really about them or about you? Which presentation can you control and which one can't you control?
Look at yourself first.
Tiger Woods says he does not compete against the other players, he competes against the course.
Love, Tracy
Everybody's normal until you get to know them. - Tracy Schapes
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
- Jef Mallett
Blog: Tracy's Happy Place
Thanks for proving my point Tamera. How long did you look to find those??Those actions of a few may very well include you Michelle, don't be so quick to judge others when you've dressed like this: -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...21&postcount=1
... and this: -
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...3&postcount=30
In your first picture, those breast forms are so huge, in your face, quite embarrassing, I wonder how many people have seen that and thought... wow, she gives us such a bad name wearing forms that big.. and your second picture, well, it's not something you'd wear to a restaurant is it?!?
Two totally different looks, two totally diferent outfits. I'm sober in both, In my home in both. Now since they are here they can easily be taken completly out of context. Private behavior is COMPLETLY different from public.
No, I don't go out to dinner in THAT corset are you kidding.... Which photo shows me stumbling around slobering on people? My hair and makeup are done in both and those are also several years old. Each is lit horibly and very low resolution as well.
So I guess having a big chest makes me bad example. I'll be sure to let Dolly Parton know she makes women look bad and is a poor example of womanhood. Dolly must be a real sicko for being so well endowed. Your right Tamera, big breasts set a really bad example, especially if you cant see them.
Thank you, I love it as well. I really dont wear it that often though. Mostly just photos and an occasional special occassion.WOW!!! I love that outfit!! It,s the sort of thing i'd wear!!
I had no idea the standard for behavior was so low. I was always taught to put your best foot forward since first impressions are everlasting as the saying goes.
I'll be sure to adjust my look to the current "En Vouge" style of couch patato slouch....It will sure be nice to not have to iron anything or put any EFFORT into my apearance and when people laugh or shake their head in dispair I'l just say to hell with you I'm just expressing myself. I'm doing nothing and that is all it takes to look good.
Why on earth did I ever think dressing well or TRYING to look good was a worthy goal.........
Sheesh......
Read my monthly column On URNA And The Gender Society
Real women were built to be admired. Why be ashamed or hurt if you admire a well crafted copy or immitation?
Michelle -
I saw your photos and I don't thing you look all that bad.
I do think us CD's should stick a little tighter together tho
We already have a few GG's in our community giving us enough sh^t.
Some of our sisters are ugly as crap, I admit that, but no reason to hate on them.
If their looks are bad that is one thing but if their personality is at least OK then why not at least be polite to them?
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
I don't think anyone is really saying you look bad Michelle, in fact you look good. Of course it's appreciated when we try our best and it makes us feel good as well. We have no control over how others choose to look or what they do however. I, personally, find it fascinating that they have the gonads to be out there to begin with and it is by no means easy as we all know.
I have found out over the years however that while appearance may be important, it's really only one factor in how we come across to people. I could take a lot of time to look like a fashion model but if my personality sucks, so do I and that is what people will remember the most.
If we really want to be ambassadors we have to accept the whole package and that includes how we interact with our own. People watch, people take notice, people don't miss much. People are the most important part of it to me with this whole ball of wax. When the chips are down I can always count on my friends though, no matter who they are or what they look like.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
Thanks, for that. I try and put a lot of effort into EVERYTHING I do. I know some people just are not that way and I'm ok with it. I'm nice to everybody or at least I try really hard to be. It's not aboud hate it's about some people who just don't care about the image they project.
A little effort goes a long way and it shows. It's the no effort group that I have problems with, regardless of what they do.
Read my monthly column On URNA And The Gender Society
Real women were built to be admired. Why be ashamed or hurt if you admire a well crafted copy or immitation?
Why and how are you so judgemental, Michelle? Maybe the guy's got mental issues. What if life wasn't so great for you? Have you ever experienced depression? Have you? It's hard just to get out of bed. You deal with depression, and then get all dolled up just so nobody will notice and no one will talk to you. You fight through all the depression and see how much "effort" you put into just about anything you do. And when it's all done, you get to meander home just to look in the mirror and see that you're still a guy and there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, life's probably just peaches for this guy.
That's a helluva soap box you two have carted out here.
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
Michelle,
I support your choice to vent your annoyance.
It does not harm me, and it seems important for you so I will stand back and "let it be."
I am glad you are here.
[COLOR=Red]Open your Heart :
It took me a couple of minutes to find them, and my name is not Tamera, it's TamAra...
This is exactly MY point, who am I to judge what you do in the privacy of your own home? I'm not anyone and neither are you to go judging what people do out of their homes, it's their life, not yours, it's up to them how they want to act, dress etc... not you. Should we expect all GG's to act exactly like every other GG on the planet?
I never said they did, but again, just because someone is a TS or CD etc.. does that mean they aren't allowed to go out, dress how they like, get drunk and make a complete idiot of themselves?Ooh you know Dolly Parton? excellent, when you do tell her, can you get me an autograph whilst your at it? And again, my name is TamAra...Right, so everyone that goes out on a friday/saturday night should not bother having fun... gotta be on their best behaviourNow you're just being sarcastic... is there really any need for that? You judge others, but when I judged you, only by making a point, you didn't like it at all... the saying goes "do unto others as you would have them do to you"No one said you shouldn't try to look your best, that is up to you, but don't expect others to live by your standards and don't be so quick to judge people, you're already fighting to be accepted in life, to live how you want, to dress how you wish etc... how can you be so judgemental of others, I don't get it at all?
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
If I see someone continually getting drunk and not caring at how they look, I feel sorry for them, not scorn. They obviously are dealing with something.
I also don't get this whole "ambassador" thing. If you see a homosexual in similar circumstances, do you think less of other homosexuals? How about if they're Black, White, Asian, physically or mentally challenged, one-eyed, or what have you?
I don't expect to be an ambassador for anyone other than myself, and I don't assume anyone else to be either.
“I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”
― Marilyn Monroe
Tamara, I am really sorry for getting your name wrong. That was rather idotic of me since it IS right there for me to read. Dooh!!
Based on the lance of arrows raining down on me for expressing MY opinion and mine alone it's pretty obvious that nobody actually read the FIRST post in this thread.
I was mearly agreeing with someone else and now this whole thing has somehow become an exposition on MY thoughts about the original topic. That's fine, I have no problem with defending my position however unpopular it may be.
However, that does not change the FACT that standards of personal decorum have diminished.
Tamara since when do good manners conflict with having fun??
Uhh... so far just about everyone who has commented has defended the malcontents and decried me? Incedentally that was the original topic. People who realy don't try to look good or don't want to..... It was not about judgeing others behavior, it has become that which is fine with me. I like a good discussion.
It was not my intent nor is it my habit to be a judge of others. There are things that I consider abhorrent and when I see it I have NO qualms about saying so.
Should the bank rober be excused because he is "troubled" or punished for being a cad? It seems like the opinion here is just give him a hug and be his freind. Just ingore the six people he killed during the commision of a crime. He's had a tough day.....How utterly moronic and stupid....... Punish the guy!!
Same for any idiot in public. What exactly do you think a "bouncers" job is? Be a fool get bounced to the curb. Societies operate on reward and punishment. Good behavoir is rewarded...bad behavoir is punished.....have none of you been scorned for doing some misdeed???
Oh brother.......
Read my monthly column On URNA And The Gender Society
Real women were built to be admired. Why be ashamed or hurt if you admire a well crafted copy or immitation?
Not proud exactly, but I am what I am.
I can understand both sides of the debate as I was on the other side, at one time I thought I was doing a great job dressing.I had quit dressing for about 4 years but kept my old wig that I thought looked good, I had my wifes old outfit and when I met to be part of a group in my area the first thing I was told was to lose that wig and I did. I have lost most of those photos.
Today I work very hard in my presentation because I understand that I am very tall and I already standout so I might as well put on my best presentation of a women I can, and I think I do a good job representing not only tall women who are GG but those of us who are TG.
What bothers me at times is those who just don't care and the still negatives presented on television are not help either.
If they are unapproachable just let them be and be yourself.
Thank you. Well said, hon.
What gives anyone here the right to judge another person? You don't know anything about them or their lives.
If you think what they are doing reflects poorly on you, then that's YOU thinking that. By judging others you don't define them as much as you define yourself.
Own your own ground and let others have theirs. It's not your place to judge anyone just because YOU wouldn't have done it that way.
"I dwell in possibility."
"Say what you want and be who you are, because those who matter don't mind, and those who matter don't mind."--Dr. Seuss
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
Are we amabassadors? Hmmm. It depends on what we define as "the Cause", I suppose. If the cause is for us to gain and enjoy greater tolerance in our society, perhaps even some acceptance, so that we can circulate and function as we are without fearing reprisal or suffering loss, then yeah, damn right, we are all ambassadors.
I don't think there's much doubt that there are more and more of us venturing out into the world to some degree or another. Granted, it's still a modest collective effort, but it is on the rise, I think. And that means that people's exposure to us is on the increase. So, what kind of impression are we making? If enough of us make a positive impression most of the time, then tolerance is going to increase. If, on the other hand, too many of us make a bad impression, then negative perception is going to be reinforced to the detriment of us all.
When you stop and consider the prevailing attitude toward us among the general population, I think we are pretty much all guilty until we manage to prove ourselves innocent (i.e., not "weird"). That's a very broad statement and I know there are exceptions, but I think it's a safe assumption, generally speaking. The long-term solution -- and it will be a long in coming -- is that we have to be bold, we have to be real, and we have to make an effort. For ourselves, and for each other.
And IMO there's no excuse for being so judgemental as you did.
Did you read what Julie said? DON'T EVER JUDGE people, if you're not in their shoes.
I know plenty of people who need dutch courage to get out or whose dysphoria forces them to lead miserable, depressed lives and you'd just write them off 'cos you're all right, Jacq??
Shame on you..
I bet she thinks the same...
Last edited by Nicki B; 03-08-2008 at 01:56 PM. Reason: Merged posts before someone did it for me..
Nicki
[SIZE="1"]Moi?[/SIZE]
Exactly Nicki, wasn't just me thinking this then?
This is totally irrelevant to the subject, has bugger all to do with cd/ing TS's etc...Should the bank rober be excused because he is "troubled" or punished for being a cad? It seems like the opinion here is just give him a hug and be his freind. Just ingore the six people he killed during the commision of a crime. He's had a tough day.....How utterly moronic and stupid....... Punish the guy!!
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
The thing is, different people are into different things, so it matters not to me as long as it involves consenting adults. Everyone's entitled to their own tastes, it doesn't hurt anyone else, and if you don't like it you don't have to look.
Karen Starlene
I believe it is how I feel inside when I dress. I do not care if others like the way I dress or not, I am not trying to please them, but myself. I do try to act the part and hopefully not get poited at and have someone say something, but if they do, you cannot take it to heart, just remember that you are happy and who cares if they say anything. Chances are if someone does say something then they are not happy with themselves and have to cut others down to try to look good themselves.
Ladies have a GREAT time!
Smile GOD LOVES you!!!
GOD BLESS US ALL!!!
AMY Hepker
ROSES ARE RED
VIOLETS ARE BLUE
I'LL BE ME
AND YOU BE YOU
I am absolutely with you on this one! I think if you do what you can. Further, just because someone else doesn't care at all, it doesn't reflect on me or the rest of us one bit. I think enough of us have tired of people judging us based on what the majority of society does, we should certainly balk at being judged on the basis at what is obviously a small fraction of what already is a minority of the population.
In a coment to one of my dear sisters, I made the statement that I don't let my passibility limit my possibilities. I do the best I can and I hope to learn to do better.
But when I go out the front door I plan on getting read. If I don't get read that great! And if I do get read, its not unexpected. I feel wonderful just being out there.
yin/yang
the effort is important, I have to use make-up to hide the rudy face and wrinkles. I do pass as an old lady with grace.
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